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Need Help - US call sign - unable to send messages when traveling to Europe


 

I have a US all sign and frequently travel to various countries in EU for work.? When I use winlink and connect to an EU winlink station, I can connect but every time, I am unable to pass traffic.? Basically, it somehow determines that I am a US call sign and then rejects my connection.

I realize there is some type of law regarding passing digital data in EU if you are an US citizen.? I am looking for a way around this or some idea on getting an EU call sign?? Sometimes the return messages states if I put "Emergency" in the header, it will let me through.? But, I would like to pass just normal traffic.?

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Bryan
K9BRM


 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 04:27 AM, Bryan Moris wrote:
I realize there is some type of law regarding passing digital data in EU if you are an US citizen.
That is not the case, amateur radio is allowed under the CEPT arrangements. The modes are not specified. Don¡¯t forget morse is digital data¡­

The issue is more likely to be the Winlink system not accepting a callsign with a prefix as only registered calls can send traffic.

Just access the Winlink system directly via the internet using your home call.

If it¡¯s any consolation, we have a similar ¡°doesn¡¯t compute¡± issue with the D-Star network using our UK regional callsigns. I was recently in Jersey and should use GJ4AON/P, but the D-Star admins wouldn¡¯t register the regional variants of our calls (not a technical issue, just can¡¯t be bothered), so I had to use G4AON /GJ which isn¡¯t correct under the license terms¡­

73 Dave


 

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Here is an excerpt from the Winlink Terms and Conditions on 3rd party traffic restrictions.?? Using ¡°Emergency¡± in the subject line in a non-emergency to circumvent US 3rd party restrictions law is a great way to get kicked off the system¡­

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Tom N5TW

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Third-Party Traffic
Third-party traffic is any message transmitted between licensed amateurs that is either from or to a non-licensee. Between amateur stations in the Western Hemisphere (with a few exceptions) there is no restriction on third-party traffic being passed over amateur radio. Many countries outside of the Western Hemisphere also now permit third-party traffic over amateur radio. Messages between duly licensed amateurs if they originate from or are delivered over the Internet are not considered third-party traffic. Third-party traffic rules only deal with that portion of the message path which is transmitted over the amateur radio spectrum.

For example: if a message originates from a non-amateur as an internet email in the U.K. and is delivered to a U.S. amateur over the radio from a gateway station in the US, no third-party rule is broken even though the U.K. does not allow third-party traffic over amateur channels. This is because third-party traffic is permitted between two US stations. Likewise, a message originating from a U.S. amateur and passed by radio to a U.S. gateway is okay even if it is addressed to the Internet address of a non-amateur in the U.K. Again, third-party traffic is permitted between the two US stations.

The Winlink System servers automatically enforce US FCC rules regarding third-party traffic when at least one station in a circuit is licensed in the USA. US rules prohibit third party traffic between stations licensed in the US and a foreign country that does not have a third-party traffic agreement with the United States. A list of those that do is kept at:?. Should a message from or to an internet email address be proposed for transfer between stations where third party traffic is prohibited it will be held at the CMS for delivery by a pathway that will not violate the governing rules, and a service message will be delivered instead describing the situation and how the message may be legally retrieved. If a Winlink user tries to send third-party traffic through stations that do not permit such traffic, the message is refused and a service message will be delivered instead, describing the situation and how the message may be legally sent. These Winlink Terms and Conditions of Use are more conservative than the governing FCC rules in some situations.

Users and sysops must make themselves familiar with third-party rules for the country in which they are operating as well as linking with if they are exchanging messages from or to internet addresses or non-amateurs. US gateway sysops should know that ¡ì97.219(c) provides protection for licensees operating as part of a message forwarding system. "...the control operators of forwarding stations that retransmit inadvertently communications that violate the rules in this Part are not accountable for the violative communications. They are, however, responsible for discontinuing such communications once they become aware of their presence."

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bryan Moris
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2023 10:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [VARA-MODEM] Need Help - US call sign - unable to send messages when traveling to Europe

?

I have a US all sign and frequently travel to various countries in EU for work.? When I use winlink and connect to an EU winlink station, I can connect but every time, I am unable to pass traffic.? Basically, it somehow determines that I am a US call sign and then rejects my connection.

I realize there is some type of law regarding passing digital data in EU if you are an US citizen.? I am looking for a way around this or some idea on getting an EU call sign?? Sometimes the return messages states if I put "Emergency" in the header, it will let me through.? But, I would like to pass just normal traffic.?

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Bryan
K9BRM


 

Thanks for the information.? This is starting to make sense.? I reviewed your information and the link provided.? The easiest way to look at this is, only the UK, Vienna, and Geneva have Third Party Agreements in place.

So, looking at Winlink Gateway locations in these three areas, only Geneva has one station (3 frequencies) that fall under the Third Party Rules.?

In summary, huge disappointment considering that Winlink should have global capabilities for US citizens.?

Again, thanks for clarifying!
K9BRM


 

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Also noted that they only cater for a small group of hams access as well. A service with a kink they operate

Greetings from the Namib

Pieter Jacobs
V51pj

On 12 Jun 2023, at 08:31, G4AON <dave.g4aon@...> wrote:

?On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 04:27 AM, Bryan Moris wrote:
I realize there is some type of law regarding passing digital data in EU if you are an US citizen.
That is not the case, amateur radio is allowed under the CEPT arrangements. The modes are not specified. Don¡¯t forget morse is digital data¡­

The issue is more likely to be the Winlink system not accepting a callsign with a prefix as only registered calls can send traffic.

Just access the Winlink system directly via the internet using your home call.

If it¡¯s any consolation, we have a similar ¡°doesn¡¯t compute¡± issue with the D-Star network using our UK regional callsigns. I was recently in Jersey and should use GJ4AON/P, but the D-Star admins wouldn¡¯t register the regional variants of our calls (not a technical issue, just can¡¯t be bothered), so I had to use G4AON /GJ which isn¡¯t correct under the license terms¡­

73 Dave