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Great pics! Such a cool mode for aprs!?
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This is pretty cool! What antennas and power levels are you all using for those mobile tracks?
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NA7Q didn't have my week long track from Oregon to Colorado (looks like I didn't save it either).? It was beyond impressive though. Only a couple missed beacons that I could notice.
For mobile I run my old Yaesu FT900 at 20w through a regular sized SharkStick mounted to the hatch of my 4Runner. A lot of the tracks that NA7Q posted, though, were run with TruSDX transceivers, so just a couple watts!?
~Isaac
W7BSB
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Interesting PinPoint display photos.? I had parked my radio on 7083.5 USB for 5 hours Monday (30 December) afternoon and no icons appeared on my PinPoint display at all.? My station location is FM19mn.
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Using like 5 and 10 watts mobile and a ham stick.?
It's really amazing to have virtually coverage anywhere when the band propagation works!?
?
?
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David, I am using a shark antenna. I use both the mini and full size one, with nearly identical results. WITH a good ground plane.
As for power level, I've have excellent results with 100mw even while mobile. Though nowhere as good as 40W that I typically run.
Most folks are running 50W or less mobile. It doesn't take a lot of power, it just takes a good antenna, and a better ground plane in my experience.
One caveat here is the second picture. It's not actually what you think.. It's me crossbanding my VHF HT to HF and HF to VHF. Using my own custom program for doing so. FTM-400 was the base station, IC-7100 as the HF Rig, and a program to bridge Direwolf and VARA together with some safety nets built into the program to prevent issues.
This was a 15 mile trip one way. With a PERFECT track from an extremely remote part of the Idaho canyons. No VHF for a hundred miles or more (literally). So I sent my traffic over HF as the backbone. 99% perfect.
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Larry, it's probably because the east coast has virtually no dedicated stations. And you guys have few hams compared to us in the west. We've tried time and time again to get more folks to join on the east coast, but no luck.?
Each station would typically cover up to ~500 miles during the day, and 500+ during night. So don't expect to see anything during the day until you guys step up your game. We have over 10 stations on the west from Colorado to the ocean, and from northern BC to Mexico. All full time IGates. Again, this provides us with reliability and coverage that is beyond incredible.?
East coast and midwest, step up your game!!!?
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All this is very impressive. When I first saw these HF aprs threads I thought I might have to replicate one of those Harris NVIS magnetic loops but a Shark stick is so simple and cheap. And in either case a high Q antenna is no issue when you are sitting on a single frequency. I¡¯ll likely order a stick and try to get in on the fun. I¡¯m in E. WA.
Thanks to all of you for the inspiration and Happy New Year.
David, KE7RGP
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Ya give it a shot a see what happens. More full time Igates is the key too.?
?
?
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I would like to setup a rx igate on the east coast.? I have a broken QDX with RX only and an RTL-SDR dongle available for this purpose.? Which is easier to get going and what software do I need?? Im leaving on Friday for a while so would like something easy I can setup on my PC before I leave.
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I think I have this setup correctly.? will wait for some traffic to see.
?
Radio - QDX (with damaged tx mode)
Antenna - Wire dipole at 40ft, inverted vee configuration
JS8 call used to CAT control the rx freq to 7.0835
pin point running with digipeater and position beacon turned off v2.1 build 231209
Vara HF running and set in VOX mode v4.8.0 (it is saying an update is available but I wanted to check basic functionality before upgrading anything)
running on a windows laptop
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On 1/1/2025 11:26 AM, greencane372 via
groups.io wrote:
I think I have this setup correctly.? will wait for some
traffic to see.
?
Radio - QDX (with damaged tx mode)
Antenna - Wire dipole at 40ft, inverted vee configuration
JS8 call used to CAT control the rx freq to 7.0835
pin point running with digipeater and position beacon turned
off v2.1 build 231209
Vara HF running and set in VOX mode v4.8.0 (it is saying an
update is available but I wanted to check basic functionality
before upgrading anything)
running on a windows laptop
_._,_._,_
?
1)?? RECEIVE-ONLY igates are an active DIS-SERVICE to APRS.??
They break half the functionality of APRS and clutter the RF
channel,? by not allowing APRS messaging with another station to
work.? (One-way vehicle tracking beacons are only a part of APRS.)
APRS also supports text messaging to another specific callsign,
either on RF or on the Internet. It also supports sending short
messages to Internet email addresses.? ? A message sent to another
station depends on a two-way path, because the sending station
waits for an ACK from the receiving station, confirming the
receipt of the message. ? If the sender doesn't get the ACK, it
just tries sending the message over and over, clogging the RF
channel.
2)?? Forget the CAT complexity and kludging JS-8 into this
mess.?? Just set the frequency manually and store it? into a
memory slot for recall as? needed.? It's not like this is a
frequency-hopping WinLink station or remote-control led station
setup.
3)?? Setup info for APRS-over-VARA for PinPoint and other clients
below in my? sig lines.
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
As Of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
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On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 05:51 PM, WA8LMF wrote:
1)?? RECEIVE-ONLY igates are an active DIS-SERVICE to APRS.?? They break half the functionality of APRS and clutter the RF channel,? by not allowing APRS messaging with another station to work.? (One-way vehicle tracking beacons are only a part of APRS.)
How do they clog the RF channel if they're not transmitting? As you say, not they do not send an acknowledgement, but how is this any different to there not being a station there?
?
I may, of course, be missing something obvious, but my understanding is that a receive-only igate is exactly that: it gates what it receives to APRS-IS, and transmits nothing, so I don't see how it has any effect on the RF channel, or does not allow messaging to another station to work.?
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On 1/1/2025 3:04 PM, Phil Culmer 2E0HGU
wrote:
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 05:51 PM, WA8LMF wrote:
1)?? RECEIVE-ONLY igates are an active DIS-SERVICE to
APRS.?? They break half the functionality of APRS and
clutter the RF channel,? by not allowing APRS messaging with
another station to work.? (One-way vehicle tracking beacons
are only a part of APRS.)
How
do they clog the RF channel if they're not transmitting? As
you say, not they do not send an acknowledgement, but how is
this any different to there not being a station there?
?
I
may, of course, be missing something obvious, but my
understanding is that a receive-only igate is exactly that: it
gates what it receives to APRS-IS, and transmits nothing, so I
don't see how it has any effect on the RF channel, or does not
allow messaging to another station to work.?
_._,_._,_
?Messages DO involve an ACK.??? If the sending end doesn't get an
ACK because the igate is one-way, it just keeps trying over and
over until it finally give up. This can take minutes or even
hours.
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>> Messages DO involve an ACK. ? ?If the sending end doesn't get an ACK because the igate is one-way, it just keeps trying over and over until it finally give up. This can take minutes or even hour.
?
Yep, internet and RF don't mix well together sometimes.? It's a problem with conventional packet networks too.? Node-lists containing almost literally 1000 nodes due to AXIP links and cavalier quality settings, and I believe AXIP tends to keep RF links either stagnant, under-performing, or even non-existent.? There's always next week to get that RF link up, as long as the AXIP link is working.? That turns into kicking the can down the road for another week, and another, and so on.
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Let me start by squashing a few things. WA8LMF is not correct here when it comes to VARA APRS.
On VHF APRS he's very correct in saying that receive only IGates break the system, because in reality it should be 2 way gating. RF <> Internet.
On VARA HF APRS, the speeds are extremely slow. This means the amount of time transmitting is actually significantly longer than 300baud and 1200baud packet than most people are used to. This means the likelihood that multiple stations will transmit at the exact same time is extremely high. How do I know? Because we tested this problem out a year ago. We've seen and adjusted to all the issues in this last year.
So on VARA HF APRS, can we have everyone as a 2 way IGate? No. Not at all.
Our solution in the PNW is simple. We coordinate together, using the stations that have the best RX/TX capabilities, and then we spread out those 2 way gates to gain maximum coverage while minimizing the clashing. The key that also makes this work is that a few of us are running specialized IGates that all have different timing before they transmit. So instead of everyone transmitting at the exact same time, they are spread out. They also prevents flooding the airwaves with duplicate messages too fast. As well as blocking bots like ANSRVR that cause major congestion for no good reason.
Timing example: Station A transmits immediately, Station B will que the message to VARA 3 seconds after A started (this makes VARA wait). This delay alone prevents the clashing. Now here's the other part. There has to be a limited number of IGates 2 RF because 1 message alone can be take up 1-2 minutes of air time due to the slowness of VARA when all the IGates are sending it to RF. As well as the receiving station acking and responding.?
Are you following yet?
We've literally had the airwaves tied up for 30 minutes straight because of this. So a 2 way IGate MUST be well thought out, if you decide to put one up. If you're on the east coast or the midwest, you're likely to have no issues. If you're on the west coast, it's best you are receive only in most places.
As for VARA HF versions, it is REQUIRED that you use 4.8.7 or higher. Anything older will NOT work because there were MAJOR changes implemented into the modem that allows for some compression over the air. Old versions had none.
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I designed the new APRSdroid versions to specifically allow VARA usage without flooding the network. As you can disable acks, or simply reduce the number sent in a short time to duplicate messages received, etc. As well as reducing the retries of messages you send not being acked. Just remember, when a station receives a messages from an IGate, that station will ack EVERY message received. This further ties up the airwaves, as do the retries.
All I'm saying in the end, is have some awareness! Pay attention. That way everyone gets to have fun! Use it, don't abuse it. VARA APRS is truly a community effort mode. VHF is too, but not like HF is.
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On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 08:09 PM, WA8LMF wrote:
?Messages DO involve an ACK.??? If the sending end doesn't get an ACK because the igate is one-way, it just keeps trying over and over until it finally give up. This can take minutes or even hours.
?
Yes, I understand that, and noted it in my question, but how is that different to the the iGate not being there in the first place?
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Phil Culmer 2E0HGU
Jeff KP3FT