Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
I'm certainly excited about this! I love seeing this kind of stuff!
I would say based on your specific location the results will be uniquely balanced in some ways... Here's my guess, assuming no sun explosions, and assuming you'll host your own IGates, which wasn't fully clarified.
40M Night: Given a good antenna and ground plane, at night, I would expect you'd get out well on 40M to the western US where most of us with permanent stations are located. So I figure that track will be quite nice with the large number of IGates out our way. If you have your own IGate on 40M at home, you'll be in the skip zone, too close to use it, or any other that might be within close proximity of your region
40M Day:?I would expect that during the day hours, if you have your own IGate at home, that the track would be perfect if within the NVIS zone. Which is typically 0-500 miles. Since there's no skip zone during the day, this makes it most ideal and predictable. Given you have a good ground place and this IGate, it'll be perfect. Especially if other IGates are within range.
30M Night: I'm thinking the night tracking will be less than favorable, as propagation is very unpredictable this high in frequency during the night time. There is also a lot of skip.
?
30M Day:?Propagation on 30M during the day is certainly more predictable. I expect that your home station *may* receive you for part of the trip, but 30M has a skip zone and very little NVIS. So you'll probably rely more on the distant IGates than your own. But you'll see a nice balance between the 2 is my guess.
I expect that 40M will have a near perfect track day and night, and given you have your own IGate for the day trip because the east coast lacks ham operators it seems. 30M will give a reasonable track during the day, but the night is what I question the most! I don't expect the night track to be good once you pull out of the home coverage after some miles.?
How did I base my data??
On the west coast and midwest, we've had a number of stations do day and night mobile tracks. They were always perfect given they had a good antenna. As well as given they have a day station within 500 miles of them, and a night station greater than 500 miles from them. The west and part of the midwest has all of those stations.
I have done tests on 40m multiple times around the clock at all hours driving for full days and full nights. Those were always the results. Based on tracking others stations, the same results are achieved. As seen by all of our IGate and RF stations as well.
As for 30M. When RF stations or IGates are seen on 30M, we see good conditions during the day that are pretty predictable. At night, it seems more often than not, that most stations are not gated, because the skip is unpredictable and not favorable.?
|
30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
There has been considerable discussion of the
relative merits of APRS-over-VARA on 30 meters vs 40 meters
recently on several mailing lists.???
On February 8th, I will be traveling from my
home QTH in central Michigan (Meridian Twp east of East Lansing)
to Traverse City, MI for the annual Cherryland Amateur Radio
Club? Swap-N-Shop. This is about a two-hundred mile (360 Km)
drive.
I plan to conduct a test of 30M vs 40M
APRS-over-VARA on this trip. I have TWO HF rigs in the car with
separate antennas. One is a Yaesu FT-891 with a mono-band
hamstick on a fender split-ball mount, dedicated full-time to
30M HF APRS. The other is a Yaesu FT-857 with an ATAS-120A
screwdriver antenna? hard-mounted to the trunk lid is used for
general operating on bands other than 30M -- usually for my
"Mobile SSTV LiveCAM" on 15 or 10 meters. ?
For this trip, I will put the 857 and ATAS-120
on 40 meters APRS.? I will run two instances of UIview, two
instances of the VARA-HF modem, and two interfaces on the mobile
laptop, one for 30 meters and one for 40 meters side-by-side.?
The Panasonic Toughbook CF-53 quad-core computer with 16GB RAM
has no trouble running all this,? along with a third instance of
UIview for two-meter packet APRS on my Kenwood TM-D700.
The departure to the ham fest will be in
darkness around 3:00 AM local (Eastern) time, so as to arrive at
the venue by 7:30 AM (around sunrise) in time to setup.? The
return trip will be in full daylight, problably starting around
1:30 PM local.??
As in previous packet vs VARA tests, I will be
using different SSIDs for the 30 and 40 meter beacons --
WA8LMF-2 for 30 meters and WA8LMF-3 for 40 meters so one will
able to generate different tracks on APRS-fi for the two bands.?
WA8LMF (no SSID) is always my two-meters FM + internet beacons.
This trip will probably be in the skip zone
for my own igate in central MI (once I get out of town) on 30
meters, and probably also on 40. I will be depending on other's
igates on both bands to reach the Internet on HF.?
Any thoughts about this before I set out next
month??
I'm already planning to do this also on next
summer's annual road trip to Evergreen Colorado for the
Evergreen Jazz Festival always the last weekend? of July. This
will involve full-summer long-days HF propagation on both
bands.?
Stephen H. Smith???
wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
|
Re: Vara HF on FT-DX10 no recieve
Thanks for replying, what I discovered was? a simple mistake on my part, had rf too low, corrected this and no problems.
?
Thanks again.
KB9UJF
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
This is RF activity for today as seen in Georgia.? Running a Icon IC-7300 at 80 watts into a end fed half wave on 10.148.20 Bob, KN4HH
On Wednesday, January 1, 2025 at 10:52:24 PM EST, John Madden via groups.io <n4ejm2019@...> wrote:
I¡¯m on there(N4EJM-11). Since getting my setup working again this past week, I¡¯ve seen much better results. I¡¯m using a Yaesu 991A and my aluminum gutters. I¡¯ve got over 220 ft worth ?horizontally with 5 10¡¯ downspouts to help the vertical side of things. Just got gated via KB7ITU in ID. John Madden N4EJM DMR ID 3165878 Hamshack Hotline 6102039
On Jan 1, 2025, at 9:36?PM, Geoff Armstrong VE7KA via groups.io <ve7ka@...> wrote:
? We have been running Pinpoint?+ VARA HF APRS?for the last few days on 40m (TX & RX) in the Vancouver, Canada area. Our club station VE7NWC-4 is in the middle of a city surrounded by high rise buildings so there is quite a bit of background QRM on most bands. We are using an Elecraft K3 and a Kelemen Multiband Trap Dipole. Though VARA seems to break through very well;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.24.34.png>
We are also being gated out by stations at various distances;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.49.png> <Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.40.png>
73
Geoff VE7KA
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 5:11?PM greencane372 via <greencane372= [email protected]> wrote: 8PM here and 40M getting better.? This is still RX only.? Michael, let me know if this messes any thing up with what you have going on the west cost and I will shut it off. <inline.0.part>
|
Decoding robust packet APRS data on the new 30m APRS over VARA frequency
With the recent frequency change of 30m APRS over VARA traffic to 10.1482 MHz I have figured out a way to be able to decode robust packet? as well as AX.25 and VARA APRS traffic with one radio.
?
Usually robust packet APRS uses a transceiver tuned to a dial frequency of 10.1473 MHz with the robust packet audio centred at 1500 Hz.
?
The new APRS over VARA frequency now means that the robust packet traffic can be heard in the same receiver but the audio is centred 900 Hz lower at 600 Hz.
?
Here's how I worked out a way to mix the frequency up to 1500 Hz using HDSDR SDR software. This may be useful for other applications.
?
The receiver audio from the transceiver appears on a USB sound card connected to the transceiver. This audio is applied to the VARA HF modem, UZ7HO sound card modem for 300 bd AX.25 packet and HDSDR.
?
In HDSDR select the USB sound card connected to the transceiver as the input sound card.
?
As it's a mono audio signal you will see two sidebands on the main display centred at 0 Hz on the HDSDR display.
?
In HDSDR set Options/Misc Options/set LO <-> Tune Offset to -900 Hz.
?
In HDSDR select Options/Misc Options/Tune Fixed to 'LO <-> Tune Offset'.
?
Select the output sondcard in HDSDR. I use the LoopBeAudio virtual audio cable as it has near zero latency. The popular VB-Audio virtual audio cable has nearly has a latency of nearly 0.5 second so it is unsuitable for data operations.
?
In WinRPR select LoopBeAudio as the input sound card.
?
The original audio centred at 600 Hz now appears at 1500 Hz and WinRPR will now decode robust packet data.
?
You can go into HDSDR and tighten up the filter on the robust packet data.
?
To do all this you will need a fast PC to handle the three decode programs and the SDR program but it will work reliably. Mine has run for 4 hours so far and I'll leave it running for the next few days.
?
I'm using a Tentec Corsair II with a synthesiser I originally developed for a SDR transceiver that we never put into production.
?
This has a 1.8 kHz crystal filter originally used for SSB DXing and contests which allows all three APRS data streams through.
?
If you want to check on APRS.FI I'm running GM4HYG-1 for 300 bd AX25 and robust packet and GM4HYG-2 for APRS over VARA.
?
Regards,
?
Chris GM4HYG
|
Re: Vara HF on FT-DX10 no recieve
Did you configure the Input and Output devices for the VARA HF modem Soundcard, in the Settings menu item?? You would be selecting the Yaesu USB audio drivers.??
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
I¡¯m on there(N4EJM-11). Since getting my setup working again this past week, I¡¯ve seen much better results. I¡¯m using a Yaesu 991A and my aluminum gutters. I¡¯ve got over 220 ft worth ?horizontally with 5 10¡¯ downspouts to help the vertical side of things. Just got gated via KB7ITU in ID. John Madden N4EJM DMR ID 3165878 Hamshack Hotline 6102039
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 1, 2025, at 9:36?PM, Geoff Armstrong VE7KA via groups.io <ve7ka@...> wrote:
? We have been running Pinpoint?+ VARA HF APRS?for the last few days on 40m (TX & RX) in the Vancouver, Canada area. Our club station VE7NWC-4 is in the middle of a city surrounded by high rise buildings so there is quite a bit of background QRM on most bands. We are using an Elecraft K3 and a Kelemen Multiband Trap Dipole. Though VARA seems to break through very well;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.24.34.png>
We are also being gated out by stations at various distances;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.49.png> <Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.40.png>
73
Geoff VE7KA
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 5:11?PM greencane372 via <greencane372= [email protected]> wrote: 8PM here and 40M getting better.? This is still RX only.? Michael, let me know if this messes any thing up with what you have going on the west cost and I will shut it off. <inline.0.part>
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
We have been running Pinpoint?+ VARA HF APRS?for the last few days on 40m (TX & RX) in the Vancouver, Canada area. Our club station VE7NWC-4 is in the middle of a city surrounded by high rise buildings so there is quite a bit of background QRM on most bands. We are using an Elecraft K3 and a Kelemen Multiband Trap Dipole. Though VARA seems to break through very well;
We are also being gated out by stations at various distances;
73
Geoff VE7KA
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 5:11?PM greencane372 via <greencane372= [email protected]> wrote: 8PM here and 40M getting better.? This is still RX only.? Michael, let me know if this messes any thing up with what you have going on the west cost and I will shut it off. 
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
On 1/1/2025 9:03 PM, greencane372 via
groups.io wrote:
FYI.? im KD2UWR and will be mobile from Fri 1/3 until Feb 2/2
as KD2UWR-7.? I will leave this VARA RX station in NY running.?
I typically have great prop into EU on 40M but maybe not many in
EU use 40M APRS VARA
_._,_._,_
?At least, not on this frequency -- a widely-used European voice
channel overlaps it ......
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
On 1/1/2025 9:00 PM, Michael - NA7Q via
groups.io wrote:
WA8LMF, oh really? I'm curious about the antenna thing you're
talking about. Got any more details? I have another station I
could add to 30m for a while.?
_._,_._,_
?
Here are the construction details for my homebrew 30M mag loop
that will handle 100 watts RF.?? Small magloops can have 100s of
RF amps circulating in the main loop, and thousands of RF volts
across the resonating capacitor.??? The most complex problem is
making or acquiring a VERY high voltage variable capacitor that
can be tuned remotely.? Once you operate on only a single
frequency, such as on APRS, this issue goes away, and a loop can
be built very easily.???
File??? 30m-20-foot-circ-Magloop.pdf??? attached
(This is of the hundreds of documents in the \Documents folder of
the "Ham Software MegaPak" collection that I sell on 32GB flash
drives at ham fests and radio club meetings.)
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
FYI.? im KD2UWR and will be mobile from Fri 1/3 until Feb 2/2 as KD2UWR-7.? I will leave this VARA RX station in NY running.? I typically have great prop into EU on 40M but maybe not many in EU use 40M APRS VARA
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
WA8LMF, oh really? I'm curious about the antenna thing you're talking about. Got any more details? I have another station I could add to 30m for a while.?
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
Ron, it is routed back by all stations that heard you, and of course who are 2 way gates. With how the propagation is, and the number of stations, it's almost guaranteed multiple heard you. Especially if you're beaconing more frequently than not around the time of messaging. Most of them time out after 30 minutes before they stop sending messages to RF to a recently heard station. So you'd have to be heard within that timeframe by a station to get messages from the APRS-IS.
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
greencane372, you're good with PinPoint, as it doesn't have anything that could pose an issue! You're also in an area that has no 2 way igates, or any full time igates. So it would be appropriate if you decided to stay full time to have one out there. It will fill a major day time gap!
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
On 12/31/2024 5:21 PM, David Lowry via
groups.io wrote:
All this is very impressive. When I first saw these HF aprs
threads I thought I might have to replicate one of those Harris
NVIS magnetic loops but a Shark stick is so simple and cheap.
And in either case a high Q antenna is no issue when you are
sitting on a single frequency. I¡¯ll likely order a stick and try
to get in on the fun. I¡¯m in E. WA.
Thanks to all of you for the inspiration and Happy New Year.
David, KE7RGP
_._,_._,_
?
The mag loop does have one major advantage.? It's so enormously
hi-Q and narrow-banded that it acts as a pre-selector for the
transceiver's receiver.? If you want to dedicate one radio to 30
or 40 meters APRS exclusively, and use another HF rig for voice or
other digimodes on other HF bands you can do it.??
My experience here with a home-brew 30-meter mag loop (effective
bandwidth about 10 KHz) connected to a Yaesu FT-891 is that I can
run my other HF radio on any HF band other than 30 meters without
the slightest effect on 30M receive.?
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
8PM here and 40M getting better.? This is still RX only.? Michael, let me know if this messes any thing up with what you have going on the west cost and I will shut it off. 
|
Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
working well even though band conditions show poor.? Tomorrow will move to the attic dipole which is lower and more NVIS to see how it does. 
|
Re: First topic of the New Year(2025)
Are there any track screenshots of the 30m mobile stations we can compare to 40m.?
?
Its showdown time haha
?
?
|
Re: Switch to New 30M APRS-over-VARA Channel.
Just a mobile Ham Stick for the Truck. Its mounted to my Roof Rack.?
|
Re: First topic of the New Year(2025)
Not all.
?Get BlueMail for Android ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 1, 2025, 15:41, at 15:41, "Michael - NA7Q via groups.io" <mike.ph4@...> wrote: Funny how all the east coast folks use 30M. When every one out west
uses 40M.
|
Bob Watson
Stu Olson
John Madden