Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
This mornings test on 30. The results really show the struggle despite having local and distant IGates.
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40m was rock solid this morning.
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
Yesterday evening's results. Not bad, but the band was very weak as I got towards the end destination.
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The dark hours definitely become a killer of the band.
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Re: PinPoint with Vara HF problem.
On 40m, almost all of us do RF beacons only. We never send it to the servers. That way as you described, we can see who has heard us. Why not just go this route? Very is very slow for sure, so things definitely do have to be done differently.?
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Re: PinPoint with Vara HF problem.
Some years ago I was the author of APRS Messenger.
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It's main feature was to send APRS beacons and messages over PSK, GMSK and MFSK modes on HF.
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One feature I added to it was a timer to delay the beacon sent to the APRS-IS by 10 seconds so that the RF sent beacon heard by an igate would be sent to the APRS-IS first.
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This worked really well
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You could view the raw packet data on APRS.FI and see all the stations who heard your beacons and if it was a direct APRS-IS beacon from your station it meant that no igate had heard that beacon.
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If you are in contact with the author of Pinpoint maybe you could ask him to add it as an option?
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It would be an idea to time how long it takes to send a typical VARA APRS beacon first to get the right timing between RF and APRS-IS beacons.
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10 seconds was OK for MFSK-16 beacons but VARA may be slower.
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Regards,
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Chris GM4HYG
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PinPoint with Vara HF problem.
I have two stations running PinPoint with Vara on 30M. Both are acting the same. I noticed that when PinPoint is connected to APRS-IS all I see on raw data are position reports through the internet. When APRS-IS is not connected I see stations all over the country I-Gating my position.
My station is sending position reports on APRS-IS and over RF at the same time. I verified this but with Vara I have no idea what is sent with the internet connected.
I have been in communication with Frank, AB0WV, PinPoint developer, about this.
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I would appreciate hearing from anyone else running PinPoint with Vara about this problem. Are you seeing the same thing on your station?
Example below.
Wayne WA5LUY
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2025-01-07 02:02:19 CST:?>APIN21,TCPIP*,qAC,T2USANW:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
2025-01-07 02:22:19 CST:?>APIN21,TCPIP*,qAC,T2USANW:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
2025-01-07 02:42:19 CST:?>APIN21,TCPIP*,qAC,T2USANW:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
2025-01-07 03:02:39 CST:?>APIN21,APRS,qAR,:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
2025-01-07 03:22:39 CST:?>APIN21,APRS,qAR,:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
2025-01-07 03:23:28 CST:?>APIN21,APRS,qAR,:!3428.23N\09307.26W-VARA?I-Gate
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
This morning's results. Top is APRS.fi. 1 packet gated. Bottom is beacon. 30m was rough! 40m is looking good this morning.?
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Re: FT-DX10 WJST Hamlib error
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FT-DX10 WJST Hamlib error
In setting up radio in WJST I get HAMLIB error when I try to connect. Using Windows 10.?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
Still have to run a windows pc with the vara tnc running. Its only the aprs client.?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
On 1/6/2025 10:43 PM, Michael - NA7Q via groups.io wrote: VARAdroid is a custom version of APRSdroid that I originally created to deal with VARA HF's slowness, which is now in my APRSdroid releases. So it originally allowed settable message retry limits, and the times at which it retries. It now also includes suppressing the acks to RF within X time, typically 60 seconds per ack. As responding to multiple IGates leads to more time on air, and more acks than we'd ever want to send sometimes. I presume that APRSdroid runs on some flavor of Android OS.?? How does it actually generate the VARA audio waveform for transmit, given that VARA is (as far as I know) a Windows-only closed-source program. Or have you reverse-engineered the VARA waveforms in it's various speeds?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
VARAdroid is a custom version of APRSdroid that I originally created to deal with VARA HF's slowness, which is now in my APRSdroid releases. So it originally allowed settable message retry limits, and the times at which it retries. It now also includes suppressing the acks to RF within X time, typically 60 seconds per ack. As responding to multiple IGates leads to more time on air, and more acks than we'd ever want to send sometimes.?
For example. We receive 4 identical messages from 4 igates. If all decoded within 60 seconds, we'd normally have to send 4 ack. But with the new feature, we only send one ack, despite getting 4 messages. This really reduces the congestion in a very beneficial way. It's the little things that matter.
As for the timing thing. I created a custom IGate software (still in beta) that a bunch of us have been running for over 6 months. We went from clashing 90% of the time or more, to almost never! Truly made a big difference. So each station is simple set at a slightly longer delay than another. So one is 3, the other is 5, or 7, etc. Keeping it to the least possible within the coverage of others. It's all very well coordinated amongst our network.?
The problem with VARA is that it's random TX start time is not enough. I keep forgetting to get in touch with Jose about this. As something in VARA would be better for a native solution that can work for everyone regardless of software.
I have some other ideas for the future to tackle these issues, I just haven't gotten around to them yet, as things work well despite the "beta" status of my own software. I have many things in the future I plan to release that will help all users enjoy the VARA APRS networks, whether on 30m, or 40m, or something else. We're all here to have fun. I want to help promote that fun, regardless where you do it!
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
On 1/6/2025 8:37 PM, Michael - NA7Q via
groups.io wrote:
Oh, and the antenna is mounted to the roof via NMO but mag
mounted for support. As it'll tear the thing metal like paper.
So it has a full and proper ground, with greatly helps the
performance over a mag mount with a coax run into the car. Also
reduces the RFI into the vehicle by a lot.
Now I'm not sure why you are focused on my home VHF IGate
"KNAPPA". Other than clearly you guys don't look at timestamps
at all when looking at raw packets.?
Just to show you. 18:47 was an evening test of the band that did
not go well. I had a difficult time getting out and hearing
much. Very weak overall.?
2025-01-05
11:15:42 PST:?>APDR17,,qAR,::SMS??????:T{1
2025-01-05
11:15:50 PST:?>APDR17,,qAR,::SMS??????:ack5618
2025-01-05
18:47:44 PST:?>APDR17,qAR,:!4610.24N/12334.24WR?
KNAPPA is tactical call, which is 100% normal and 100%
legal on APRS. In fact it would be if we didn't use these types
of calls. KNAPPA is my off grid solar powered APRS station with
also houses VARA APRS for 40m, a Winlink gateway on VHF, a VHF
repeater, UHF remote base, multiple dual band rigs, a secondary
HF rig, a couple computers, and some other things. With constant
power outages, this is a must have thing.
_
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Duh!!? I had totally forgotten about tactical calls.? Somehow
"KAPPA didn't look like a geographic place name to me.??? Also, I
was being distracted by another issue.? A confused/clueless user
somewhere around central Michigan, apparently not knowing how APRS
works, has copied my settings into his 2 meter digipeater/igate
including my callsign!? His igate is gating packets to the
internet with WA8LMF-3 after the Q-construct.??
(This is an SSID I only use on HF tests - typically my 30M packet
beacons use WA8LMF-2 and the 30M VARA beacons go out with
WA8LMF-3. I have never used it on VHF.)
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
On 1/6/2025 8:27 PM, Michael - NA7Q via
groups.io wrote:
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Messaging is one the key things in APRS for many of us. So
tracking and messaging are what we judge by. They are not
necessarily equal due to the VARA speed differences between
messages and basic position reports.
One major problem with 30m and the current network is that
igates are?NOT timed. So every 2 way igate keys
up at the exact same time causing a lovely clash of gibberish.
On 40m, we are timed so that this doesn't happen. This
significantly improves IS to RF gating.
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How do you assign the timing?? ? I can see that the usual VHF
scenario of a limited number of igates in a given region, and FM
capture most likely ensure one wins out over the others.? This
would not be at all like what happens on HF.??
How large an area, and how many igates are involved in your 40M
network???? Would there be any feasible way to extend this to
continental scale?
I have to admit that my experience with APRS messaging on HF has
been limited exclusively to radio<-->radio;? not
radio<-->Internet.? The?
multiple-stations-keying-up-at-once?? problems go away when
addressing a specific call sign for RF-to-RF messaging which I
have done over continental ranges on cross-country road trips many
times. ??
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
On 1/6/2025 8:17 PM, Michael - NA7Q via
groups.io wrote:
Hi Devan, I was using some modified smartbeaconing settings
in VARAdroid. Happy to share those if interested.
_._,_._,_
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What is "VARAdroid"??? Does it actually generate VARA tones
natively?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
Oh, and the antenna is mounted to the roof via NMO but mag mounted for support. As it'll tear the thing metal like paper. So it has a full and proper ground, with greatly helps the performance over a mag mount with a coax run into the car. Also reduces the RFI into the vehicle by a lot.
Now I'm not sure why you are focused on my home VHF IGate "KNAPPA". Other than clearly you guys don't look at timestamps at all when looking at raw packets.?
Just to show you. 18:47 was an evening test of the band that did not go well. I had a difficult time getting out and hearing much. Very weak overall.?
2025-01-05 11:15:42 PST:?>APDR17,,qAR,::SMS??????:T{1
2025-01-05 11:15:50 PST:?>APDR17,,qAR,::SMS??????:ack5618
2025-01-05 18:47:44 PST:?>APDR17,qAR,:!4610.24N/12334.24WR?
KNAPPA is tactical call, which is 100% normal and 100% legal on APRS. In fact it would be if we didn't use these types of calls. KNAPPA is my off grid solar powered APRS station with also houses VARA APRS for 40m, a Winlink gateway on VHF, a VHF repeater, UHF remote base, multiple dual band rigs, a secondary HF rig, a couple computers, and some other things. With constant power outages, this is a must have thing.
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
WA8LMF. Yes, I got out fairly okay after the band opened. I wouldn't say "quite well", as it missed beacons and way too many messages alike. All that I heard was very weak as well. Remember, that I'm coming from 40m. Reliability is not DXing across the entire country to get to an igate with very weak signals. It's about strong signals to and from igates. 30m did not provide that this morning at all. Not even this afternoon.
Though signals were stronger this afternoon, they were still very weak. So messaging again was not great, but was definitely better as the sun was setting!
Messaging is one the key things in APRS for many of us. So tracking and messaging are what we judge by. They are not necessarily equal due to the VARA speed differences between messages and basic position reports.
One major problem with 30m and the current network is that igates are?NOT timed. So every 2 way igate keys up at the exact same time causing a lovely clash of gibberish. On 40m, we are timed so that this doesn't happen. This significantly improves IS to RF gating.
I will be conducting more tests as the work week continues.
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
Hi Devan, I was using some modified smartbeaconing settings in VARAdroid. Happy to share those if interested.
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
I was going to say, the digi is ID'ing at regular intervals via the status message just fine from what I can see;
Most of the colocated, high elevation digipeaters here in the PNW are also configured the same way. Usually the name/ID signifies the mountain top or geographical area it is covering which makes it far easier to identify at a glance over a callsign. Examples;
Geoff VE7KA ?
On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 1:22?PM Glenn O'Connor via <ka0lnr37= [email protected]> wrote: Digipeaters can be only denoted by an SSID only. For example, a couple of our local VHF digipeaters are ‘CHILLI’ and ‘CARROL’. The trustees contact info is contained within the beacon status message, fulfilling the legal requirement of identification. These are RF digipeaters. ? KNAPPA status: ? 
? ? On 1/6/2025 2:55 PM, Glenn O'Connor via wrote: ?But still doesn't seem to be an actual callsign.?? Is this a receive-only system only facing the Internet -- not digipeating on RF? ?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
Digipeaters can be only denoted by an SSID only. For example, a couple of our local VHF digipeaters are ‘CHILLI’ and ‘CARROL’. The trustees contact info is contained within the beacon status message, fulfilling the legal requirement of identification. These are RF digipeaters. ? KNAPPA status: ? 
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toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of WA8LMF via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2025 1:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [VARA-MODEM] 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!? On 1/6/2025 2:55 PM, Glenn O'Connor via groups.io wrote: ?But still doesn't seem to be an actual callsign.?? Is this a receive-only system only facing the Internet -- not digipeating on RF? ?
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Re: 30 Meter VARA APRS - Test Run Today!
On 1/6/2025 2:55 PM, Glenn O'Connor via
groups.io wrote:
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?But still doesn't seem to be an actual callsign.?? Is this a
receive-only system only facing the Internet -- not digipeating on
RF?
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wa5luy