Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
You guys are quite funny honestly. This is ham radio, not some "science" experiment based on your feelings. Take or leave it. We're out here having fun either way with our big group.
After a few hours on 30m, I heard a few folks, but could only get a message to one of them. Big gun WA7GMX. He's always got a big signal on 40m at <100 miles away. 30m with him is usually a challenge to work, but not today. The band is doing interesting things today, so he's anywhere between -1 and +14.?
The other stations I heard I had no luck reaching with a "ping" message.?
Speaking of ping, if you ever see my home station NA7Q-1, you can send me a message of "ping", and it will return a message with your S/N report from VARA. Very handy tool to see what your signal is compared to what you heard from a station.
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
I have to agree with Steve K3FZT on his confirmation bias point. ?When you enter an experiment to test a hypothesis, regardless of how much prior study evidence has preceded that experiment, any researcher bias usually enters into the experiment which can go so far as to influence the construction of the testing method all the way to the analysis of the resulting evidence.? For the researcher to express that bias from the outset poisons the results in the minds hearing/reading it to some degree.? And goes against the grain of science philosophy.? How can we now trust that this test is now constructed properly, then conducted properly, and then results accurately/completely reported? ? I personally have not yet setup VARA APRS HF, but am strongly interested in it.? Therefore, OBJECTIVE research evidence is of great interest to me before I plunk down the initial $$ and time/effort to pursue it.? My bet is that there are many others here on this list who feel the same.? I could be wrong, tho, as I have run into some hams who don’t care about $$, their time, and hold their own prejudices about many topics.? Now I’m hoping testers (can there be more than one, please?) of this comparison can do a good job of putting aside prejudice and concentrate on making a test methodology that provides a fair comparison and an accurate/complete reporting of test results. ? Stephen W9SK (from WA, now in NC) ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael - NA7Q via groups.io Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2025 2:20 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [VARA-MODEM] 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming ? It's not exclusively MY results. It's the results of around 30 people in 2 months time when we first started VARA APRS, AND the tests of 40M within over a years time.
Which also includes random tests outside of 40M within that years time by our group. We've even taken the last week to try 30M with nothing but results closer to 0% success.
Sounds to me like you're over analyzing the statements and making assumptions. This is all about performance, not bias.
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
I gotta say, today is the first time in a long time I've had 30m working! NVIS is working a little bit too with it. Even within a short distance! There's a lot of fluctuation though. As much as 14db of it. Only one station heard so far. Hearing quite a few on 40 though.
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
Stay well 'cause life is beautiful.
73 de K3FZT / Steve --
Steve Davidson K3FZT | GMRS: WRVS468Winlink Gateway K3FZT-10@...?direct or via W3EOC-3 Supporting VARA FM Wide/1200bd Packet WIRES-X Room #85218 "MARC-DARBY" 444.050 mHz
On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 2:20?PM Michael - NA7Q via <mike.ph4= [email protected]> wrote: It's not exclusively MY results. It's the results of around 30 people in 2 months time when we first started VARA APRS, AND the tests of 40M within over a years time.
Which also includes random tests outside of 40M within that years time by our group. We've even taken the last week to try 30M with nothing but results closer to 0% success.
Sounds to me like you're over analyzing the statements and making assumptions. This is all about performance, not bias.
--
73 de K3FZT / Steve
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
It's not exclusively MY results. It's the results of around 30 people in 2 months time when we first started VARA APRS, AND the tests of 40M within over a years time.
Which also includes random tests outside of 40M within that years time by our group. We've even taken the last week to try 30M with nothing but results closer to 0% success.
Sounds to me like you're over analyzing the statements and making assumptions. This is all about performance, not bias.
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Re: Vara HF Console Information
Erik-you’re obviously the ham that I needed to connect with ! Thank you so much for this information ; the console will make much more sense and I will have a far better idea if transmissions are going well or if there is a problem.
I appreciate you taking the time to : 1) point out the information links and 2) write a description of the function of various parts of the Vara HF console.
Thanks and all the best to you in Finland !
Mike ?VA1KMA
?
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
I'm not a hot shot scientist, but I've authored peer-reviewed science and read and taught plenty of it for 40+ years.
There's always bias as science and even quality evaluation are human endeavors.
I'm not questioning your data.
I want to see Stephen's WA8LMF's data as do you.
However, by writing what you did--what you expect to see in his yet to be collected data--you have shared not only your own likely confirmation bias, but you have set the stage for every reader of your message to bring your bias to their individual interpretation of the data when it's presented along with results and conclusions derived therefrom.
Better data scientists and authoritative scientific journal editors than I have demonstrated this to be the case.
I have no problem with you celebrating your results.?
Predicting another's results based on your results sets the stage for confirmation bias among viewers and interpreters of the subsequent results and is generally avoided unless explicitly part of the null hypothesis statement of a randomized trial--not what is happening here.
Regards to you, Michael, and the list.
73 de K3FZT / Steve --
Steve Davidson K3FZT | GMRS: WRVS468Winlink Gateway K3FZT-10@...?direct or via W3EOC-3 Supporting VARA FM Wide/1200bd Packet WIRES-X Room #85218 "MARC-DARBY" 444.050 mHz
On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 10:21?AM Michael - NA7Q via <mike.ph4= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Steve, there's no bias per say. It's all based on over a year of testing and experimenting. We started testing around October of 2023 on every band day and night. By December of 2023 we had a fully established network on 40m, as nothing else compared to the reliability and coverage.
?
We didn't establish our network to DX, we did it to be able to communicate and operate as we do on VHF APRS. What a success it has been! Our data doesn't lie, and it definitely isn't biased, because it's data...
--
73 de K3FZT / Steve
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Re: Vara HF Console Information
Mike, when you get familiarized with the terminology and the acronyms, it is quite straightforward. And as the modem console is mostly just an indicator of what's happening, you do not need to have it visible all the time.
Most critical things are the VU-meter on the left, which shows that the incoming audio level is OK. I tend to adjust the audio level so that it points directly upwards, so half scale. CPU load is also just for information, with modern computers the load should not be something which would bother the modems operation or other applications. The VARA modem runs with elevated priority so it gets more resources than usual applications.
Two rightmost meters tell about the quality of the signal. The AFC meter indicates the frequency error of the received signal. VARA-modem has a AFC window of about 200Hz so it can correct?+-100 Hz offset. This is to do with slightly different clock frequency?of sound cards, or then the actual frequency offset of the radio on the other end. 99% of all the radios are within 20Hz or so of what I have operated. The last S/N meter indicates the Signal-to-Noise ratio of the incoming signal. VARA-HF is able to decode somewhere down to -20 dB SNR, but then there is no margin left at all. Better the signal, the faster speeds the modem negotiates with the other station.
You can set the modem to show the diagrams which means you get to see the transfer speed of each transmission & reception,?and also the eye pattern of the modulation received. Waterfall shows the waterfall but it is not very useful, but good for debugging if you don't have audio input at all.
The 'lamps' in the middle of the VARA-modem are sometimes the most useful things to watch at. As VARA is an ARQ mode, each transmission is acknowledged meaning that the other end reports back that your transmission has been received OK and your modem reports likewise before sending or receiving the next data batch. When observing the lamps during a connection, they are green when all is good but red when things need to be re-sent or that the modem has not heard an acknowledgement. This is how you can diagnose a stuck QSO for example. I tend to listen to the RX/TX audio while operating and I can already identify the chirping and what they mean :)
I run the modem with just the gauges visible, but usually minimized as VARA-modem reports all the important things to the applications using it, for example VarAC.
Hope to chat with you over VARA!
73, Erik OH2LAK
Hi Eric
Thank you very much for the information ! I looked at the downloads and they were exactly what I wanted. If you happen to come across any other sites with similar content, I would be interested in learning even more about the console.
Thanks again for everything !
Mike ?VA1KMA
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Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 1:33?PM Michael - NA7Q via <mike.ph4= [email protected]> wrote: Larry, it's probably because the east coast has virtually no dedicated stations. And you guys have few hams compared to us in the west. We've tried time and time again to get more folks to join on the east coast, but no luck.?
Each station would typically cover up to ~500 miles during the day, and 500+ during night. So don't expect to see anything during the day until you guys step up your game. We have over 10 stations on the west from Colorado to the ocean, and from northern BC to Mexico. All full time IGates. Again, this provides us with reliability and coverage that is beyond incredible.?
East coast and midwest, step up your game!!!?
Perhaps the Midwest and East Coast folks aren't as interested in parking an HF rig on one frequency for APRS.
"And you guys have few hams compared to us in the west"
Really?
Did you mean fewer hams on APRS?
73, Lee K5DAT
?
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
Here's 1200 miles of track. I'd call this data, not bias. I have plenty more of this where that came from.
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
Hi Steve, there's no bias per say. It's all based on over a year of testing and experimenting. We started testing around October of 2023 on every band day and night. By December of 2023 we had a fully established network on 40m, as nothing else compared to the reliability and coverage.
?
We didn't establish our network to DX, we did it to be able to communicate and operate as we do on VHF APRS. What a success it has been! Our data doesn't lie, and it definitely isn't biased, because it's data...
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Re: Vara HF Console Information
Hi Eric
Thank you very much for the information ! I looked at the downloads and they were exactly what I wanted. If you happen to come across any other sites with similar content, I would be interested in learning even more about the console.
Thanks again for everything !
Mike ?VA1KMA
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Re: Vara HF Console Information
Hi Mike.
Go to? where you downloaded VARA-modem and look for "VARA-HF quick guide" and "VARA documentation" down the page.
As usual, reading manuals is not a thing :)
73, Erik OH2LAK
Hi, my name is Mike and my call sign is VA1KMA. I’m a relatively new user of Winlink/Vara HF and a brand new member of this group. Everything appears to be working well so far (messages are being sent and received) but I don’t have a good understanding of all the information shown on the Vara HF console. The 4 gauges, the waterfall, the graphic display of what I assume is digital info in box display at the top right and whatever else I’m missing are all providing information. It would be nice to understand exactly what that info is. Lots of videos and print tell how to set up Winlink/Vara HF, but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains the console and the real time status of what is happening with the messages. If anybody has any suggestions where I may be able to find such material , I would certainly appreciate it.?
Thanks
Mike VA1KMA
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
Let's wait to see real data rather than broadcasting one operator's confirmation bias.
73 de K3FZT / Steve --
Steve Davidson K3FZT | GMRS: WRVS468Winlink Gateway K3FZT-10@...?direct or via W3EOC-3 Supporting VARA FM Wide/1200bd Packet WIRES-X Room #85218 "MARC-DARBY" 444.050 mHz
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 6:59?PM Michael - NA7Q via <mike.ph4= [email protected]> wrote: I'm certainly excited about this! I love seeing this kind of stuff!
I would say based on your specific location the results will be uniquely balanced in some ways... Here's my guess, assuming no sun explosions, and assuming you'll host your own IGates, which wasn't fully clarified.
40M Night: Given a good antenna and ground plane, at night, I would expect you'd get out well on 40M to the western US where most of us with permanent stations are located. So I figure that track will be quite nice with the large number of IGates out our way. If you have your own IGate on 40M at home, you'll be in the skip zone, too close to use it, or any other that might be within close proximity of your region
40M Day:?I would expect that during the day hours, if you have your own IGate at home, that the track would be perfect if within the NVIS zone. Which is typically 0-500 miles. Since there's no skip zone during the day, this makes it most ideal and predictable. Given you have a good ground place and this IGate, it'll be perfect. Especially if other IGates are within range.
30M Night: I'm thinking the night tracking will be less than favorable, as propagation is very unpredictable this high in frequency during the night time. There is also a lot of skip.
?
30M Day:?Propagation on 30M during the day is certainly more predictable. I expect that your home station *may* receive you for part of the trip, but 30M has a skip zone and very little NVIS. So you'll probably rely more on the distant IGates than your own. But you'll see a nice balance between the 2 is my guess.
I expect that 40M will have a near perfect track day and night, and given you have your own IGate for the day trip because the east coast lacks ham operators it seems. 30M will give a reasonable track during the day, but the night is what I question the most! I don't expect the night track to be good once you pull out of the home coverage after some miles.?
How did I base my data??
On the west coast and midwest, we've had a number of stations do day and night mobile tracks. They were always perfect given they had a good antenna. As well as given they have a day station within 500 miles of them, and a night station greater than 500 miles from them. The west and part of the midwest has all of those stations.
I have done tests on 40m multiple times around the clock at all hours driving for full days and full nights. Those were always the results. Based on tracking others stations, the same results are achieved. As seen by all of our IGate and RF stations as well.
As for 30M. When RF stations or IGates are seen on 30M, we see good conditions during the day that are pretty predictable. At night, it seems more often than not, that most stations are not gated, because the skip is unpredictable and not favorable.?
--
73 de K3FZT / Steve
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Vara HF Console Information
Hi, my name is Mike and my call sign is VA1KMA. I’m a relatively new user of Winlink/Vara HF and a brand new member of this group. Everything appears to be working well so far (messages are being sent and received) but I don’t have a good understanding of all the information shown on the Vara HF console. The 4 gauges, the waterfall, the graphic display of what I assume is digital info in box display at the top right and whatever else I’m missing are all providing information. It would be nice to understand exactly what that info is. Lots of videos and print tell how to set up Winlink/Vara HF, but I haven’t been able to find anything that explains the console and the real time status of what is happening with the messages. If anybody has any suggestions where I may be able to find such material , I would certainly appreciate it.?
Thanks
Mike VA1KMA
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
On 1/3/2025 6:59 PM, Michael - NA7Q via
groups.io wrote:
I'm certainly excited about this! I love seeing this kind of
stuff!
I would say based on your specific location the results will be
uniquely balanced in some ways... Here's my guess, assuming no
sun explosions, and assuming you'll host your own IGates, which
wasn't fully clarified.
?
I expect that 40M will have a near perfect track day and night,
and given you have your own IGate for the day trip because the
east coast lacks ham operators it seems. 30M will give a
reasonable track during the day, but the night is what I
question the most! I don't expect the night track to be good
once you pull out of the home coverage after some miles.
My experience with my home igate/beacons located at 42 44.54
NORTH is that 30 meters almost always has a minimum skip zone in
this part of the world of 250-300 miles (400-480 Km) day or
night.? When I head out in my own mobile, I normally don't start
seeing my home station (70 watts into homebrew magloop) until I
get to Chicago, Cincinnati, or Toronto. Normally during my APRS
demos at Dayton from my radio trailer, I normally don't see my
home station on 30M at all. ? This was with conventional packet
APRS.? On a recent trip to my sister's farm in Kalamazoo (about 80
mi (130 Km) south-west of here, I was surprised that I WAS hearing
my home station on 30m APRS-over-VARA.?? I suspect the approx 15
dB advantage of VARA over AX.25 packet was allowing me to hear
very weak backscatter propagatiion on 30 meters.
This is why I have been experimenting with APRS on 60-meters,
where you have guaranteed? 0-300 mile NVIS propagation nearly
24/7.
I haven't really checked out the purported NVIS? 0-300 range on
40 meters. At night here in central Michigan, the nearest stations
I normally hear on SSB and SSTV are in the upper South (Tennessee,
Virginia, and North Carolina). ?
I've been monitoring 40M APRS-over-VARA on 7083.5 USB for the
last several days, since the 40M APRS discussion erupted on this
list.? I'm using a Yaesu FT-818 porta-luggie with a 500 Hz Collins
IF filter into my G5RV.? ? So far I am hearing far fewer stations
than on the newly-established 30M APRS-over-VARA frequency of
10.148.200 MHz USB.? But then we just got hit with another solar
storm (Northern lights visible at my latitude.) I start seeing the
west coast stations about 2200-2230 local Eastern time (0300-0330
UTC).?? I won't really get a sense for what 40M can do, until I
give it a week or so to see what happens.
By the way, I do have igates running 24/7 on 30 meters, both for
300-baud AX.25 and for VARA. ? I will run an igate with the FT-818
on 40 meters for the road trip test.? (Or what we call "drive
tests" in land-mobile and cellular systems engineering.)
Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
How did I base my data??
On the west coast and midwest, we've had a number of
stations do day and night mobile tracks. They were always
perfect given they had a good antenna. As well as given they
have a day station within 500 miles of them, and a night station
greater than 500 miles from them. The west and part of the
midwest has all of those stations.
I have done tests on 40m multiple times around the clock at all
hours driving for full days and full nights. Those were always
the results. Based on tracking others stations, the same results
are achieved. As seen by all of our IGate and RF stations as
well.
As for 30M. When RF stations or IGates are seen on 30M, we see
good conditions during the day that are pretty predictable. At
night, it seems more often than not, that most stations are not
gated, because the skip is unpredictable and not favorable.?
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Re: 30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
I'm certainly excited about this! I love seeing this kind of stuff!
I would say based on your specific location the results will be uniquely balanced in some ways... Here's my guess, assuming no sun explosions, and assuming you'll host your own IGates, which wasn't fully clarified.
40M Night: Given a good antenna and ground plane, at night, I would expect you'd get out well on 40M to the western US where most of us with permanent stations are located. So I figure that track will be quite nice with the large number of IGates out our way. If you have your own IGate on 40M at home, you'll be in the skip zone, too close to use it, or any other that might be within close proximity of your region
40M Day:?I would expect that during the day hours, if you have your own IGate at home, that the track would be perfect if within the NVIS zone. Which is typically 0-500 miles. Since there's no skip zone during the day, this makes it most ideal and predictable. Given you have a good ground place and this IGate, it'll be perfect. Especially if other IGates are within range.
30M Night: I'm thinking the night tracking will be less than favorable, as propagation is very unpredictable this high in frequency during the night time. There is also a lot of skip.
?
30M Day:?Propagation on 30M during the day is certainly more predictable. I expect that your home station *may* receive you for part of the trip, but 30M has a skip zone and very little NVIS. So you'll probably rely more on the distant IGates than your own. But you'll see a nice balance between the 2 is my guess.
I expect that 40M will have a near perfect track day and night, and given you have your own IGate for the day trip because the east coast lacks ham operators it seems. 30M will give a reasonable track during the day, but the night is what I question the most! I don't expect the night track to be good once you pull out of the home coverage after some miles.?
How did I base my data??
On the west coast and midwest, we've had a number of stations do day and night mobile tracks. They were always perfect given they had a good antenna. As well as given they have a day station within 500 miles of them, and a night station greater than 500 miles from them. The west and part of the midwest has all of those stations.
I have done tests on 40m multiple times around the clock at all hours driving for full days and full nights. Those were always the results. Based on tracking others stations, the same results are achieved. As seen by all of our IGate and RF stations as well.
As for 30M. When RF stations or IGates are seen on 30M, we see good conditions during the day that are pretty predictable. At night, it seems more often than not, that most stations are not gated, because the skip is unpredictable and not favorable.?
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30-meters vs 40-meters APRS-over-VARA Shootout Coming
There has been considerable discussion of the
relative merits of APRS-over-VARA on 30 meters vs 40 meters
recently on several mailing lists.???
On February 8th, I will be traveling from my
home QTH in central Michigan (Meridian Twp east of East Lansing)
to Traverse City, MI for the annual Cherryland Amateur Radio
Club? Swap-N-Shop. This is about a two-hundred mile (360 Km)
drive.
I plan to conduct a test of 30M vs 40M
APRS-over-VARA on this trip. I have TWO HF rigs in the car with
separate antennas. One is a Yaesu FT-891 with a mono-band
hamstick on a fender split-ball mount, dedicated full-time to
30M HF APRS. The other is a Yaesu FT-857 with an ATAS-120A
screwdriver antenna? hard-mounted to the trunk lid is used for
general operating on bands other than 30M -- usually for my
"Mobile SSTV LiveCAM" on 15 or 10 meters. ?
For this trip, I will put the 857 and ATAS-120
on 40 meters APRS.? I will run two instances of UIview, two
instances of the VARA-HF modem, and two interfaces on the mobile
laptop, one for 30 meters and one for 40 meters side-by-side.?
The Panasonic Toughbook CF-53 quad-core computer with 16GB RAM
has no trouble running all this,? along with a third instance of
UIview for two-meter packet APRS on my Kenwood TM-D700.
The departure to the ham fest will be in
darkness around 3:00 AM local (Eastern) time, so as to arrive at
the venue by 7:30 AM (around sunrise) in time to setup.? The
return trip will be in full daylight, problably starting around
1:30 PM local.??
As in previous packet vs VARA tests, I will be
using different SSIDs for the 30 and 40 meter beacons --
WA8LMF-2 for 30 meters and WA8LMF-3 for 40 meters so one will
able to generate different tracks on APRS-fi for the two bands.?
WA8LMF (no SSID) is always my two-meters FM + internet beacons.
This trip will probably be in the skip zone
for my own igate in central MI (once I get out of town) on 30
meters, and probably also on 40. I will be depending on other's
igates on both bands to reach the Internet on HF.?
Any thoughts about this before I set out next
month??
I'm already planning to do this also on next
summer's annual road trip to Evergreen Colorado for the
Evergreen Jazz Festival always the last weekend? of July. This
will involve full-summer long-days HF propagation on both
bands.?
Stephen H. Smith???
wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????
New? 30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency
As of 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????
- APRS over VARA? --
??
"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??
-
?
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Re: Vara HF on FT-DX10 no recieve
Thanks for replying, what I discovered was? a simple mistake on my part, had rf too low, corrected this and no problems.
?
Thanks again.
KB9UJF
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Re: 40M VARA APRS Rocks! (7.083.50 USB)
This is RF activity for today as seen in Georgia.? Running a Icon IC-7300 at 80 watts into a end fed half wave on 10.148.20 Bob, KN4HH
On Wednesday, January 1, 2025 at 10:52:24 PM EST, John Madden via groups.io <n4ejm2019@...> wrote:
I’m on there(N4EJM-11). Since getting my setup working again this past week, I’ve seen much better results. I’m using a Yaesu 991A and my aluminum gutters. I’ve got over 220 ft worth ?horizontally with 5 10’ downspouts to help the vertical side of things. Just got gated via KB7ITU in ID. John Madden N4EJM DMR ID 3165878 Hamshack Hotline 6102039
On Jan 1, 2025, at 9:36?PM, Geoff Armstrong VE7KA via groups.io <ve7ka@...> wrote:
? We have been running Pinpoint?+ VARA HF APRS?for the last few days on 40m (TX & RX) in the Vancouver, Canada area. Our club station VE7NWC-4 is in the middle of a city surrounded by high rise buildings so there is quite a bit of background QRM on most bands. We are using an Elecraft K3 and a Kelemen Multiband Trap Dipole. Though VARA seems to break through very well;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.24.34.png>
We are also being gated out by stations at various distances;
<Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.49.png> <Screenshot 2025-01-01 at 18.34.40.png>
73
Geoff VE7KA
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 5:11?PM greencane372 via <greencane372= [email protected]> wrote: 8PM here and 40M getting better.? This is still RX only.? Michael, let me know if this messes any thing up with what you have going on the west cost and I will shut it off. <inline.0.part>
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Stephen W9SK
Steve K3FZT
Erik Finskas OH2LAK
Bob Watson