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On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 07:29 PM, WA8LMF wrote:

WIDEn-N paths are NOT used on HF!??? I have seen several new users running PinPoint without changing this factory default.??

Sorry! Please provide path guidelines for APRS newbies like me. Recommendations found online are highly inconsistent:

: WIDE2-1

: WIDE1-1

: No path at all, or GATE, WIDE2-2.

Thank you!

?

73, Markus HB9BRJ

_._,_._,_

---

It constantly amazes me how the Internet propagates incorrect and/or out-of-date infomation.....

The first two links above are from Australia, and for some reason are blindly copying VHF/2-meters conventions, and suggest they be used on HF.?? Since Australia is so far separated from the rest of the world, radio-wise (and geographically) their non-standard path conventions have almost no impact on the more populated parts of the world.

The third one, from Indonesia, is a direct copy (without attribution and minus the animated graphic), of my own web page? at:
???? ??

Again, this applies to 2M/VHF -- not HF.??? HF practice is discussed here on my web site:
???

Some basic? practices and thoughts about HF APRS operation.???

1)?? On VHF, radio transmission is primarily line-of-sight. Radio coverage from a given location is a) relatively predictable and b) easily blocked by objects (trees, buildings, hills). As a result, digipeating (relaying transmissions using other stations) beyond the line-of-sight makes sense.?

2)?? On HF, radio transmission primarily uses sky-wave propagation -- the bending of radio waves far beyond the horizon due to refraction in the atmosphere 100Km or more above the earth. This refraction is due to the upper layers of the atmosphere (the ionosphere) becoming electrically charged by radiation from the sun.? This charging? effect constantly varies with time-of-day, season-of-the-year and the roughly 11-year cycle of solar activity.??Further, one-time events on the sun (solar flares, coronal mass ejections -a.k.a. CMEs, etc) can disrupt the ionosphere at any time.

As a result, radio propagation varies WILDLY from hour-to-hour and day-to-day.? You simply CAN NOT expect a given other station being available consistently to serve as a digipeater for your station on HF.

3)??? Digipeating a transmission takes as much air time as the original transmission.? One digi hop DOUBLES the air time. Two digi hops TRIPLES the air time.? This drastically reduces the capacity (messages-per-hour) possible on the shared channel.

4)??? On HF,? data rates are far far slower than on VHF/FM,? further reducing the capacity of the shared single radio channel.??

5)??? On VHF, digipeats occupy a geographic area of perhaps a city-county-shire-province-canton-parish, allowing the same radio channel to be used simultaneously in many places in the country at the same time.???? On HF, your transmission (and it's digipeats) may occupy a THIRD OF A CONTINENT or more at once, further enormously reducing the capacity of the shared single radio channel.

Path settings (WIDEn-N values) control the amount of digipeating done. On VHF this works. On HF, digipeating SHOULD NOT be used!? Most current APRS programs and APRS-enabled radios arrive "out-of-the-box" with their digipeat paths defaulted to the standard WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,? suitable for two digi hops on VHF.?

When programs are used for HF operation, these hops should be removed -- i.e. the path box should be left blank. ??

A) ?? Digi hops on HF are heavily discouraged

B) ?? The few digipeaters that do exist on HF DO NOT respond to WIDEn-N paths -- They use "ECHO" instead.

C) ?? Adding the path values to your transmission only makes your transmitted packet longer, taking up more air time and making it less likely to be decoded successfully at the other end. ? ??

D)??? "GATE" as a path element is an anachronism from over 30 years ago,? that is needless today.
??? "GATE" in a path tells a handful of old hardware-based TNCs (mainly Kantronics "KAM" dual-port) to cross-band digipeat from HF to VHF. (You would have two radios, one HF and one 2M, attached to ports on the same TNC.)
??? The hope was that then a local 2-meter station would hear you and igate your transmission to the Internet. This dates from an era, decades ago, when 24/7 always-on home internet connections were uncommon (most people still had on-demand dial-up connections) leading to few if any igates on HF.?? Again, due to the unpredictable nature of HF propagation, you never knew what geographic area(s) you would be GATED to on VHF.?

Today, there are numerous igates directly receiving off HF -- the "GATE" clause in a path just makes the transmission needlessly longer.

??? Once again, FOR HF, the path settings should be blank.

P.S.? I invented the double WIDEn-N construct for APRS paths on VHF over 30 years ago, ? to solve digipeating problems with brain-dead Kantronics KPC-3 TNCs that were widely used as digipeaters at the time.

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-
?

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Brian, I think what you may be missing is this is a VARA based APRS and not the standard AX25. You are using SoundModem and you need to use VARA as your modem.

73 n5pwp
Mike

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For comparison, here is what I am hearing on the 30-meter classic AX.25 AX.25 packet APRS channel that is using the same radio and antenna as the new APRS-over-VARA channel. ?

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-
?

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Most stations ever on the new 30-meter APRS-over-VARA frrequency? !?? Capped at 2000 Eastern Time from my test setup on the new VARA channel.??? [Note that this will become the map of the main APRS-over-VARA UIwebserver on my main site on New Years Eve. ]

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?Screen cap of new 30M APRS-over-VARA channel as of 1700 Eastern Time today as monitored on my test setup (TS-2000 and G5RV ant).? This is captured from a 1388x720 "half-HD" screen.

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I have just discovered that during the re-organizing of my website pages focusing on VARA and APRS, that I accidentally screwed up links? and left out some important pages. ?? This included pages on configuring various APRS client applications to work with VARA.? This has now been fixed, I hope!

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I have just discovered that during the re-organizing of my website pages focusing on VARA and APRS, that I accidentally screwed up links? and left out some important pages. ?? This included pages on configuring various APRS client applications to work with VARA.? This has now been fixed, I hope!

Main gateway page to VARA-related topics:
???

Main page for using APRS-over-VARA with various APRS clients
???

30 Meter APRS-over-VARA Frequency Change
???

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
????

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-
?

开云体育

Rick? -? KJ7ROX via groups.io <rick.lovdahl@...> wrote:

I read your post and then tried to access the pinpoint aprs website and it
seems to be down. (Forbidden message).
Am I missing something??
Here is the url I am attempting:
[1]

Looks like their webserver is misconfigured. You could try to get what
you want via the webarchive site:



-dominic

The PinPoint website seems to be missing in action.??? I've put a copy of the most recent PinPoint on MY web site at at:

??

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
???? <

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

Rick - KJ7ROX via groups.io <rick.lovdahl@...> wrote:

I read your post and then tried to access the pinpoint aprs website and it
seems to be down. (Forbidden message).
Am I missing something? Here is the url I am attempting:
[1]

Looks like their webserver is misconfigured. You could try to get what
you want via the webarchive site:



-dominic

--
By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection,
which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
and third by experience, which is the bitterest.
- Confucius

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Started using AMTOR and PACTOR more than 30 years ago. Today I'm using VARA with Winlink and VarAC.

Fortunately I downloaded PinPoint some time ago. My first 30m beacon was received by GM4HYG-10:

2024-12-23 19:07:38 CET:?>APIN21,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,:!4741.75N/00838.43E-PinPoint?v2.1

?

73, Markus HB9BRJ

_._,_._,_

---

WIDEn-N paths are NOT used on HF!??? I have been several new users running PinPoint without changing this factory default.??

Digipeaters are heavily discouraged on HF since they double the time your transmissions occupy the channel, which becomes significant with the slower data rates on HF.?? Further, the path information adds needless length to the transmitted packet, reducing the probability of the packet being successfully decoded.

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
???? <

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-
?

开云体育

I read your post and then tried to access the pinpoint aprs website and it seems to be down. (Forbidden message).

Am I missing something???

?

Here is the url I am attempting:

?

73... Rick KJ7ROX

?

_._,_._,_

---

?

Hmm?? The PinPoint website seems to be missing in action.??? I've put a copy of the most recent PinPoint on MY web site at at:

??

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

30 Meter?? APRS-over VARA? Frequency Change
Coming 1 Jan 2025.?? Details Here:
???? <

- APRS over VARA? --
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??