Chris,

I just tested the FT-991 today to confirm it is capable of Vara Wide and it is.? It wasn't mentioned before, but make sure the radio is in DATA-FM mode.? It will appear to work in FM mode, but the emphasis/de-emphasis circuitry is not bypassed.? Vara Wide will have variable and less than optimum results in this mode.

Jeff

Hi Stuart and others,

Yes you can use a phone repeater BUT you have to set in VARA-FM program via "Settings" and "VARA setup" at "FM system" in NARROW and not in WIDE.
This is for the all users of VARA-FM via a phone repeater.
Nothing have to change in the repeater itself.

This all means that the the audio-bandwidth is less and thus the level speed is max 11
I did some testing here and NARROW versus NARROW works OK.
NARROW versus WIDE and WIDE versus WIDE is terrible and slow.

Good luck with testing!
' 73
Peter, PE1DCD

Thanks, Wheez.
That may be the piece I need. I am still muddling my way through Linux but I cut my computer teeth in CP/M on Z80s.

Dave
WB9TEN

Chris, et.al. Lots of lessons learned in preparation for the actual exercise.? I look forward to the after action report of the event.??

Another option you may wish to test is using a VHF repeater to act as the P2P repeater.? I think you have an FM repeater in that location that may be used.? Talk to the repeater owner, as you may need to turn off a few functions such as the repeater timer length.? The nice thing about using the repeater, is you can carry on both voice and digital communications on the same channel.?

VARA FM when set up as a digipeater can really extend the range. In the Ottawa region, we have set up most of the RMS Gateways to operate both as RMS Gateways AND as VARA FM Digipeaters.? Home stations can also be set up as VARA FM FM Digipeaters.? Licensed VARA FM digipeaters can be linked for up to two digipeaters.?

Please write up your complete report so that other can benefit from your hard work.?

As we collectively move from using Winlink and VARA FM from established home stations and move to being deployed and setting up temporary stations, there is a new set of skills to be developed.?

Thanks for sharing you lessons learned in live time.?

Have fun

Stuart VE3SMF

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John. Congratulations on getting VARA Running. I didn’t think of the antivirus firewall.?

Today we tested again. We moved to a less desirable site at the request of the Fire Chief. Unfortunately a large metal building was in the way which impeded signals sufficiently to make file transfer impossible (between north and south). So we tried using west as a digipeater and it worked quite well, giving us about 20kB/minute transfer rate. I thought that was a slow but the Fire Chief was pleased and that's good enough for me.

We will have a Yagi at north as well as south for the final test on Friday. We are also thinking about using Wi-Fi (or derivative like AREDN) for short range communications at any site where we can't otherwise locate near to the client due to obstructions like the metal building. The idea would be to put a router in between the Winink operator and the operator working with the client. We might get a chance to experiment with that a little on Friday.

Thank you for all the suggestions. They've been very helpful. P2P is the most efficient for us at this location, and provides the ability to exceed the 120kb file limit.?

One anecdote from today was that our south operator created a 100kB text file by repeating the same text over and over. It transmitted in a few seconds. We concluded that the data compression for repeated text is quite good.

73,
Chris

If it would be of any benefit to this test, I can operate a VARA Igate along with my Robust and HF packet Igates on 30 meters.
Ron
WA7GMX

I am in the planning stages of adding VARA to an up and running LinBPQ site that is using Direwolf for VHF. Our intention is to use a CAT controlled HF radio that has yet to be acquired for an RMS port. On my test system at home, I have been successful with LinBPQ, VARA, Flrig, hamlib and of course Wine on a Pi 4B. What I am looking for is a method to autostart VARA, Flrig and hamlib. LinBPQ and Direwolf are autostarting with "systemd" scripts.

Dave
WB9TEN

Hi John,
Congratulations!? Which antivirus are you using if I may ask?
--
Roy Dugger, KD6R

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On Sunday 16 June 2024, I will be departing from entral Michigan on a cross-country road trip to Los Angeles.? I will have "Studio B" (my mobile hamshack and radio operations trailer) in tow.??

Once again, I will be doing side-by-side comparisons of classic HF AX.25 packet APRS and APRS-over-VARA-HF.? I will alternate beacons on AX.25 and VARA, each mode on a 10-minute cycle while enroute.? Both modes are originated from the same computer, interface, radio (Yaesu FT-891) and antennas (Quicksilver Radio ham sticks for 60 and 30m) in the car.?
??? Note that because this is being run as a full laptop-based APRS setup (not a dumb transmit-only tracker), I should be able to receive/send APRS messages on any of the three modes (VHF, HF packet, HF VARA).
??? Three instances of UIview will be running side-by-side from separate folders to generate the three modes.

For the first day out (Sunday 0-500 miles / 800 km), I will be operating on 60 meters "Channel 5" (5.403.5 USB).? Plans are for the first overnight in Des Moines IA.? For the rest of the trip (too far away from my home igate/webserver for 60M), I will be on the? usual 30 meters APRS frequency -- 10.147.600 USB with standard 1600/1800 Hz "KAM" tones on 300-baud AX.25 and standard VARA-HF tones.

I will be using WA8LMF (no SSID) for 2M and direct-to-Internet beaconing via cellular,?? WA8LMF-2 for the HF AX.25 mode,?? and WA8LMF-3 for the HF VARA beacons.? Thus you can distinguish the posits from the three modes on sites like findu.FI or my own personal APRS webservers at?

???

I also have a dedicated Road Trip Tracker up at my web site:

???

This tracker plots all three modes with their three different SSIDs. It plots only what is heard? off-the-air? on HF RF, as heard from my home QTH? (no Internet).near East Lansing MI.? (The two-meter WA8LMF [no SSID] is plotted from both off-the-air and the APRS-IS Internet feed.) ?? The road trip tracker plots posits on 3D-looking relief maps, so once I get to Denver and the beginning of the "real west" (the Rocky Mountains), the map display should be quite interesting.

The outbound trip will be on I-80 across Iowa and Nebraska, I-70 across Colorado and Utah, and I-15 Utah to L.A. ? The return trip about a week later will be along the lay of the old Route 66 (I-40 Barstow, CA - Arizona - New Mexico onward to the eastern US.?

As an added "side-show" to this trip, I will be running my "Mobile SSTV LiveCAM" from a second? HF rig in the car on 15 or 10 meters if the higher HF bands are open.? I have a web cam pointed out the front window that automatically grabs and beacons a live SSTV image every ten minutes. This gets especially interesting when I get west of Denver into the Colorado Rockies and the Utah red rocks desert.

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

APRS-over-VARA igates now operating on 30 & 60 meters
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-- APRS over VARA? --
??

?

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 07:51 PM, CalOES SOCC Officer - Jim Price wrote:

This is exactly why we don't recommend using P-P Winlink.? Too much coordination required and too much unpredictability.? The best thing is to find some reasonable RMS stations that you can use.

Jim -

Our local ARES groups regularly practice Winlink P2P operation over VARA FM links, and have very little trouble coordinating these sessions, using voice, over the same channel that is used for the data session.

Also, don't overlook the benefits of VARA FM digipeater stations for addressing signal path issues for P2P sessions.

The rationale for our practicing P2P data communications over VHF/UHF FM links is that we need to be able to achieve efficient error-free data communications between field operators and our served agencies & EOCs even if internet service is disrupted regionally. There are more than a few examples of how that has actually happened. It's hard to see how email data communications through a VHF/UHF FM RMS gateway station, or for that matter VARA HF links to gateway stations outside the affected area, would be effective in that situation.

Mark - AD7EF

Chris,

I apologize. ?Mark is correct. ?You can do Vara Wide with the FT-991A. ?Just use the cabling and jumpers as he describes.

Jeff
WX7OR

That's the behaviour I saw. The west station (I was at north) sending a file to us said the 6-pin data port was being used with the correct settings, but perhaps it needs to be checked further. I've heard about the 991A problem but as far as I know the 991 is OK, then again I will check with the south operator to make sure he doesn't have the A model, although I've seen reports that it can be made to work in wide mode with some counter-intuitive fiddling.

We've generally been using 50W for testing.? It worked fine with the North antenna at 10'. We started having trouble when we elevated it to 25', although it seems south swapped radios at about the same time. Going back to 10' didn't help.?

I'm glad we've been doing this testing. It's better to discover the issues before we need them.

73,

Chris

Jeff WX7OR wrote:
… the FT-991A isn't VARA Wide capable even with an external sound card.

Not so!…

?

You’re right about the FT-991(A) not outputting “9600bps receive” audio on the corresponding pin of the miniDIN-6 “DATA” connector.

?

However, Yaesu has provided a mechanism for supporting “high speed” VHF/UHF FM data, with an external TNC or rig-interface device, by switching the unfiltered receive discriminator output to the miniDIN-6 “1200bps receive” pin when the radio is set for “9600 bps data” operation.

?

The key to making this work is making sure that the external rig-interface device, and/or radio cable is jumpered (and/or wired) -only- for 1200bps operation, regardless of whether the radio is set in the 1200bps or 9600bps configuration, or whether VARA FM is running in “WIDE” or “NARROW” mode.

Mark - AD7EF

I have some info on YouTube. Go to my channel;


Larry KF5MLP

I haven't seen it mention in this thread yet, but the FT-991A isn't VARA Wide capable even with a external sound card.? The radio lacks a data out pin that by-passes the filtering.? Search this group for 991 and you will find plenty of discussion.? I haven't used an IC-7100, but the manual shows an AF OUT and DATA OUT pin.? The DATA OUT pin should provide the bandwidth for VARA Wide.

VARA FM has interesting behavior when set to Wide with a radio that isn't capable.? The initial handshake only transmits in the lower 3000 Hz, so it doesn't test in the 3000-6000 Hz range.? After the handshake, it begins sending the message at a high level if the S/N was good.? The problem is half the bandwidth is missing, so VARA steps down a level and retires sending the message.? It will continue to do this until it hits Level 3, which has a ~3000 Hz bandwidth.? Sometimes it might even drop to Level 1 or 2.

Jeff
WX7OR

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The RMS stations are a lot further away, and would require twice as many transmissions and reliance on infrastructure. I agree with the observation about the sound card on the FT991 which is why I mentioned it as a problem. It's the same on my IC-7100, the data port is required for wide mode operation. I'm surprised that calibration doesn't report the lack of bandwidth- it must catch a lot a people.

We're going to test again tomorrow between north and south. The weather is supposed to be fine. We'll be testing again on Friday. We're also going to try VarAC to go past the file size limit.

This is north to south from Google Earth. The hill looks formidable but as a single sharp peak we seem to be getting knife-edge diffraction.

_._,_._,_

---

1)??? The diffraction "smears" the wave front and creates multipath-type distortion.? This doesn't affect the "calibration" much which uses simple two-tone FSK, but just kills the complex multi-tone QAM audio subcarriers of the fast modes of VARA (or 9600-baud AX.25 packet).

2)??? The diffracted signal on the far side of the hill will be far far weaker than the signal hitting the near side of the hill --- as much as 20-30 dB less.? I.e. far far more path loss than a line-of-sight path of the same distance.? High-speed data modes require fully-hard-quieted "full smash" signals to work reliably.? Even the slightest amount of hiss or "popcorn" noise on the received signal will be fatal. ?

Normally, this means a true line-of-sight path --OR-- a LOT of power (50-100 watts or more) and/or lots of antenna gain. And further, since this is a two-way handshaking operation (unlike one-way APRS beacons), this has to be true in both directions.?? 10-20 watts into a low-gain vertical omni low to the ground? just won't hack it, unless the other end of the path is on a 100-foot-plus tower or hill-top; i.e. typical digipeater location.?? Decades ago, the instruction manual for the Kenwood D700 APRS transceiver warned users to not expect reliable data mode unless the S-meter was reading full scale!??

---

Stephen H. Smith??? wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Skype:??????? WA8LMF
EchoLink:? Node #? 14400? [Think bottom of the 2-meter band]
Home Page:?????????

APRS-over-VARA igates now operating on 30 & 60 meters
??

"Studio B" Ham Shack on Wheels
??

-- APRS over VARA? --
??

?

?