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Hi Darrell,

Yes, looking at the Y-tree your main line splits off from mine after P312,
which is more than 4000 years ago. Mine belongs to L21-DF21 "Atlantic
Celtic" and more specifically is below the "Little Scottish Cluster" (S3058)
whereas your Hockleys belong to the Italo-Gaulish haplogroups below U152. So
very different lines. DF21 is associated with British/Irish Celtic.

Vince

Hello All,
So it might be the case that the Y-DNA of the colonial Culpeper County, VA line of Hackleys might still be the same for my Essex, England line of Hockleys, which is in the R U152 haplogroup family? The line of Hackleys for Vince Hackley might be a separate Y-DNA line (northern provinces of BNA)?
Darrel Hockley

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: scarlett1@...
To: "VA-FAUQUIER" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 12:04:53 AM
Subject: Re: [VA-FAUQUIER] Hackley/Hockley Y-DNA

thank you for your reply. I wish you the best in your hunt. It is always exciting to find new family who are really old family! I live in central Illinois in a town of about 7600, been ere all my life, except for 4 years at Millikin University and then after marriage, living in Decatur, Ill for 2 years, then back "home" where we raised a son and now have 3 grands and soon to be 3 great grands! Soon, as in tomorrow! Blessings, and Peace! I did not know about mtDNA. I did my DNA hoping for American Indian blood! not to be, all UK and Germany and Scandinavia! Tell me how one does the female side, please. Thank you, Marjorie
a
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel Hockley via groups.io" <ddh_regina@...>
To: "VA-FAUQUIER" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 11:51:55 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-FAUQUIER] Hackley/Hockley Y-DNA

Hello Scarlett,
Thank you for messaging me. Francis is northwest a bit from Weyburn, SK while Yellow Grass where I come from is some 12 miles west of Weyburn.
Darrel

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 10:21:48 p.m. CST, scarlett1@... <scarlett1@...> wrote:

2nd message from Scarlett. My mother and her family were near the town of Francis, in 1913 and 14, then came back to central Illinois but she had lovely memories of school there, and singing the National anthem and- of the Mounties! so, we have more in common! Peace---Scarlett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel Hockley via groups.io" <ddh_regina@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:58:29 AM
Subject: [VA-FAUQUIER] Hackley/Hockley Y-DNA

The family historian of the Hackley family of colonial Virginia, Dr. Woodford Broadus Hackley (1894 to 1978), believed that the Hackley family (origins Hampshire, England) were related to the Hockley family and that some time in the past both families were descended from one man. My Hockley ancestors came from nearby Thaxted, Essex and besides myself, two other Hockleys have tested their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas, and we all match as distant relatives. I am hoping any male line Hackleys who read this, would also test for their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas and see if his Hackleys and my Hockleys match up.

Darrel Hockley of Regina, SK, Canada

thank you for your reply. I wish you the best in your hunt. It is always exciting to find new family who are really old family! I live in central Illinois in a town of about 7600, been ere all my life, except for 4 years at Millikin University and then after marriage, living in Decatur, Ill for 2 years, then back "home" where we raised a son and now have 3 grands and soon to be 3 great grands! Soon, as in tomorrow! Blessings, and Peace! I did not know about mtDNA. I did my DNA hoping for American Indian blood! not to be, all UK and Germany and Scandinavia! Tell me how one does the female side, please. Thank you, Marjorie
a

Hello Vince,
I found the Hackley kits you mentioned on the "R DF21 and Subclades" project at FTDNA, (I wonder why no one set up a "Hackley DNA Project"?). Unfortunately, the Hackley-Hockley common origin theory is wrong. My group of Hockleys from western Essex, England (parish of Thaxted) do not relate to your Hackleys. Our main haplogroup family is R U152 - my Big Y 700 confirmed haplogroup is R-FT83612. So now we know.
Darrel Hockley

Hi Darrell,



I made a similar request (for male Hackley testers) a couple years ago.I
believe on this list, as it is the only one that I'm still following. How
long ago did you test? I have been active on FTDNA since 2016.



We should probably take this off line. I only get the weekly summaries and
what we have to discuss is really not so much a Fauquier issue.



But for the sake of anyone who might be watching, you should know that there
are already three Hackley surname men tested at Y500 level at FTDNA. Ethan
Hackley had tested at Y67 a few years ago when I had my test done at Y 111.
I then upgraded to BigY. I encouraged my then 94 year old distant cousin
Richard "Dick" Hackley to test (we share a ggg-grandfather). I managed to
get a free kit for him from one of the managers of the R-DF21 project. I
then later paid for the Y500 analysis. Dick passed away about a year ago,
but left me with management of his kit. In the mean time, I managed to talk
Ethan into testing at the Y500 level last year.



The results were that all three of us matched and shared a new haplogroup at
R-BY77560. So far this is looking like a possible surname cluster. I don't
have a date for this haplogroup, because there are 38 other SNPs included in
this haplogroup that have not been differentiated at this time (they name
the haplogroup based on the first new shared SNP). This haplogroup is on the
following line: R-P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > DF21/S192 > FGC3213 >
ZZ1 > S3058 > Z30228 > BY23933 > BY77560. BY23933 is roughly 3300 years old.



A few months back I uploaded Dick's data to Alex Williamson's Big Y Tree
project. I've been trying to get Ethan to do the same. Alex does a better
job of differentiating SNPS and estimating ages of haplogroups, etc.Still
waiting for this analysis to be completed. It's free of charge. My kit
number is 635849. Dick's is 250467. I have a genealogy tree attached to
mine.



Since I do not see you or any other Hockley's sharing that surname cluster
or matching with me or Dick, this suggests we are not related within the
past 3300 years or so. What is your haplogroup?



I should also mention that Ethan believes he is descended from the immigrant
Peter Hackley. Peter established a Hackley line that began in CT/NY and
spread west. The Michigan Hackleys are from that line. I refer to it
generally as the "northern line". It is completely distinct from the
"Virginia line" from which, as far as I know, all Hackleys in VA descended.
My ggg grandfather spent his life in Culpeper Co VA. He was surrounded by
Hackleys from the line that Woodford B. Hackley established many years ago,
but I have been unable to identify his parents. My tree shows him as a son
of Samuel Hackley and Francis Porter of Hackley's Cross Roads (now in
Rappahannock Co VA). However, evidence now suggests that James, the son of
this Samuel, moved west and established a different line, meaning that
Samuel cannot possibly be the father of my ancestor. So my line is now
orphaned. This is one of the reasons I am into Y DNA testing now. I believe
it might be the only way to establish my connection to the Virginia line and
secondarily I hoped it would show whether or not the two "independent"
Hackley lines (from Peter and John Hackley) are related back in England.



There is one more possible Hackley male descendant who had a name change
event. This person's grandfather was born out of wedlock and given his
mother's surname, Cummings. This person matches me fairly closely, but has
only tested at Y111 (I've encouraged him to test Big Y, as it might sort out
his origins and help establish my connection to the VA line). His likely
Hackley ancestor has a well established genealogy back to Virginia.



I have not seen any other Hackleys testing in FTDNA. I'm trying to recruit
known Hackley male descendants from the Virginia line in order to establish
a connection.



By the way, in Woodford's Notes on the Descendants of John Hackley of Old
Rappahannock County, he notes that when he visited England and spoke with
surname experts there, he was told that Hockley and Hackley were likely
separate surnames. I don't really know if this is accurate or not. Neither
did Woodford. Ironically, Woodford grew up and is buried within a couple
miles of where my gg grandfather was born and lived on and off and where my
ggg grandfather, James Hackley, lived.



I have been researching the Hackleys of Virginia and their descendants for
nearly 30 years now. I started with Woodford's "Notes". He apparently never
looked at or perhaps had access to census records. That's one big hole in
his work. He did, however, have access to elderly Hackleys back almost 100
years ago and many family bibles.



My email is vahackley at comcast.net. Let's take this conversation to email.
I think we have a lot to share, and I'm very happy to meet you.



Since

Hello Charlene,
While the Family Finder test only matches distant cousins (and brothers and sisters and parents, etc) back some 6 generations, the Y-DNA matches males back for hundreds of years. Same thing for mtDNA which is pass down in the female line from great grandmother to grandmother to mother to daughter (or son where it ends) to her daughter and so on.
Darrel Hockley

Your second cousin, Duncan Reeds, would not match to me as the Family Finder test at FTDNA only matches cousins back some 6 or so generations back in time.

Hello Charlene,
I did email Vince Hackley with the email address you gave me. Thank you. I have not received a reply from him so far, Is your dad's first cousin a male Hackley?
Darrel

My Dad’s 1st cousin’s FTDNA kit is #50843

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 6:19 AM Charlene Ebeling via groups.io <tebel2888=
[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you for the link. I will check it out.
It is very possible that HACKLEY and Hockley are the same line. Very
early on many people could not read and write, so others wrote for them and
spelled the name as they heard it.
My Dad’s first cousin, Duncan Reeds did FamilyTreeDNA and is a HACKLEY
Desc. but I’m not sure it would show as a match. BTW John HACKLEY m Judith
BALL are our ancestors. Judith Ball was a cousin of Pres. George Washington
through his mother, Mary BALL—my 1st cousin 7xr.

Charlene

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 12:52 AM Darrel Hockley via groups.io <ddh_regina=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hello Scarlett,
Thank you for messaging me. Francis is northwest a bit from Weyburn, SK
while Yellow Grass where I come from is some 12 miles west of Weyburn.
Darrel

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 10:21:48 p.m. CST, scarlett1@... <
scarlett1@...> wrote:

2nd message from Scarlett. My mother and her family were near the town

of

Francis, in 1913 and 14, then came back to central Illinois but she had
lovely memories of school there, and singing the National anthem and- of
the Mounties! so, we have more in common! Peace---Scarlett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel Hockley via groups.io" <ddh_regina@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:58:29 AM
Subject: [VA-FAUQUIER] Hackley/Hockley Y-DNA

The family historian of the Hackley family of colonial Virginia, Dr.
Woodford Broadus Hackley (1894 to 1978), believed that the Hackley family
(origins Hampshire, England) were related to the Hockley family and that
some time in the past both families were descended from one man. My

Hockley

ancestors came from nearby Thaxted, Essex and besides myself, two other
Hockleys have tested their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas,
and we all match as distant relatives. I am hoping any male line Hackleys
who read this, would also test for their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of
Houston, Texas and see if his Hackleys and my Hockleys match up.

Darrel Hockley of Regina, SK, Canada

Thank you for the link. I will check it out.
It is very possible that HACKLEY and Hockley are the same line. Very
early on many people could not read and write, so others wrote for them and
spelled the name as they heard it.
My Dad’s first cousin, Duncan Reeds did FamilyTreeDNA and is a HACKLEY
Desc. but I’m not sure it would show as a match. BTW John HACKLEY m Judith
BALL are our ancestors. Judith Ball was a cousin of Pres. George Washington
through his mother, Mary BALL—my 1st cousin 7xr.

Charlene

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 12:52 AM Darrel Hockley via groups.io <ddh_regina=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hello Scarlett,
Thank you for messaging me. Francis is northwest a bit from Weyburn, SK
while Yellow Grass where I come from is some 12 miles west of Weyburn.
Darrel

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 10:21:48 p.m. CST, scarlett1@... <
scarlett1@...> wrote:

2nd message from Scarlett. My mother and her family were near the town of
Francis, in 1913 and 14, then came back to central Illinois but she had
lovely memories of school there, and singing the National anthem and- of
the Mounties! so, we have more in common! Peace---Scarlett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrel Hockley via groups.io" <ddh_regina@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:58:29 AM
Subject: [VA-FAUQUIER] Hackley/Hockley Y-DNA

The family historian of the Hackley family of colonial Virginia, Dr.
Woodford Broadus Hackley (1894 to 1978), believed that the Hackley family
(origins Hampshire, England) were related to the Hockley family and that
some time in the past both families were descended from one man. My Hockley
ancestors came from nearby Thaxted, Essex and besides myself, two other
Hockleys have tested their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas,
and we all match as distant relatives. I am hoping any male line Hackleys
who read this, would also test for their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of
Houston, Texas and see if his Hackleys and my Hockleys match up.

Darrel Hockley of Regina, SK, Canada

Hello Scarlett,
Thank you for messaging me. Francis is northwest a bit from Weyburn, SK while Yellow Grass where I come from is some 12 miles west of Weyburn.
Darrel

2nd message from Scarlett. My mother and her family were near the town of Francis, in 1913 and 14, then came back to central Illinois but she had lovely memories of school there, and singing the National anthem and- of the Mounties! so, we have more in common! Peace---Scarlett

Dear Darrel, I am not a Hockley or Hackley, etc., but my ancestors are from Fauquier, so--good luck!scarlett in Illinois!

The family historian of the Hackley family of colonial Virginia, Dr. Woodford Broadus Hackley (1894 to 1978), believed that the Hackley family (origins Hampshire, England) were related to the Hockley family and that some time in the past both families were descended from one man. My Hockley ancestors came from nearby Thaxted, Essex and besides myself, two other Hockleys have tested their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas, and we all match as distant relatives. I am hoping any male line Hackleys who read this, would also test for their Y-DNA with Family Tree DNA of Houston, Texas and see if his Hackleys and my Hockleys match up.

Darrel Hockley of Regina, SK, Canada

Contact info off line would be good. I do not belong to Ancestry.
Charlene

Hi Charlene
I believe we have corresponded or crossed paths years ago, perhaps when I was more active in the Fauquier rootsweb list. I too have an extensive Hackley database. I’ve been researching that family for nearly 30 years. We can perhaps take this discussion off line to compare notes. I have my database private on ancestry if u belong. Would be willing to share. I can also give u my contact info offline. Perhaps a call would be more efficient?

I would like to encourage anyone who has a surname of interest, contact Charlene.? Charlene Ebling is an excellent researcher.
Shirley Starks
sstarks@...

I don’t have a Hackley relative to take the test, but I am very interested in your project. I am a Hackley descendant and have an extensive data base.
Charlene Reeds-Ebeling

Looking for male Hackleys from the Culpeper, Fauquier and Rappahannock area willing to test Y-DNA. Might be willing to split cost if you are traceable to the John Hackley of Old Rappahannock Co line, including those from Hackleys X Roads in Rapp Co. Anyone interested or knowing someone can send me private message. This is part of ongoing effort to sort out different Hackley lineages on FTDNA. Not sure how this works on groups.io