Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials
Frank here is the link to the . The thread has two drawings, one in a posting by the creator, the second is a PDF CAD drawing.
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Resettable Handwheels/Dials
I found my ¡°Satin Chrome¡± Resettable dial¡±. I measured the OD and it is ¡°1.300¡± diameter. I am not sure yet if it is an appropriate size for the Unimat DB200 but it sure functions nicely. At least it can serve as a model that can be downsized to fit the Unimat. As I develop a working model I will make dimensional sketches.
Dick
--
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials
FWIW. Bear with me while I provide some background.
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I have a Logan 10" lathe. Because of the design of the micrometer dial, it's not possible to remove remove all of the backlash in the cross slide or the compound. Options to correct this is a sub-hobby. As well as YouTube Mr. Pete, Mark of Winky's Workshop made a screw extension, necessary to move the large dial from under the compound, and new dials. There are examples on Hobby Machinist of some Southbend work.
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Here are my "KISS" thoughts, and after this one can get as complicated as one desires all the way up to George H. Thomas' designs in The Model Engineers Workshop Manual and The Shop Wisdom of D.E. Johnson being the two I have on hand.
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Look at Taig, Shirling, any small lathe or after market dials. Pick one. Make a index ring the same diameter. If you want to get really fancy, you can put a Vernier scale on it. Larger lathes usually have a screw bushing passing through the apron that's a convenient place to set screw the index plate too.. I suspect one could simply Locktite it to the face of the cross slide carrier if you don't want to tap it. This where if you want cusom dials you look at saw blade indexing etc. for the numbers, number stamp guides, etc., and go for it.
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The dial carrier below is classic Bridgeport table wye micrometer carrier. I like it because it rotates with the screw and the carrier pinches the dial so no need to sacrifice a number for a set screw. Turn one to carry your new dial. Put a well on the back side for an Oilite bearing as the carrier needs to rotate with the screw.
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Now a couple of options to extend the screw if needed. If you can find a coupling nut the correct size, Locktite it to the original screw. If you found a coupling nut, you can find high quality threaded rod for how ever much extension you need to pass through your dial carrier and hold the handle nutted on both sides. Otherwise simply tap the end of a rod, get your length as covered, and thread the handle end. You can Locktite them together, or put a roll pin through the shop made thread and coupler. I wouldn't put a roll pin through the original screw shaft.
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If an extended screw was needed, attach the carrier to the screw with Locktite a roll pin. Because the carrier is attached to the shop made screw extension, no worries about the roll pin vs. a woodruff key as the pin can be taken out and worse case a new screw extension made.
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Now the carrier can be tightened down against the Oilite bearing to remove any backlash independent of the dial. Install the dial, put on the handle, and it's retaining nut.
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This is also where you can make a bearing carrying bushing to press fit into the end of the cross slide. It can be screwed in, but on this size lathe I don't see any advantage.
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Just my $.02, feel free to offer constructive critism.
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Not too hard to make, needs to slip over the rod/thread extension. For my Logan I simply sleeved it and plan to use a roll pin to attach it to the screw extension..
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Resettable Handwheels/Dials
When I replied in the original message, I changed one word in the Subject and thought it would do just that. Turns out it started a new one without the original content. There is always something to learn about these forums. So, what I am going to try do is copy My original content to this reply just in case someone reads only this one and does not know how it was started.?
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I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past. It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the friction type. ?A search through the Files section did not yield much information as to how to make them. ?An article in ME Workshop (Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set would be greatly appreciated. ?Thank You, Frank?
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Resettable Handwheels/Dials
Elliot, Thank You for the link. I just finished viewing all four of his videos. The sawblade indexer and number stamping jig are very clever and will work fine for this kind of project. The Logan and some of my machines use an insert piece for the main alignment line and also provide a thrust bearing surface. Unfortunately, the little Unimat uses the casting surface and is machined to a small diameter that mates with the dial.? Maybe an insert could be made with a larger face and then be fitted into the cross-feed casting. A resettable sleeve could then be made to fit over the existing dial to match the insert like the videos show. I am not sure about the tailstock and leadscrew. The cross feed would be the most useful. Also, Dick used the word Resettable (which seems more appropriate instead of Adjustable). I inserted it into this reply title and hope it works. It would still be nice and convenient to purchase one already made, but not necessary.? Frank? ? ?
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Wow, that is just incredible. Such precision, and a great video production.
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I¡¯m going to have to watch the rest of his videos now!
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Thanks Elliot.
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Chris, who has the youtube channel "Clickspring," has a series of videos
on making a clock in the home machine shop. Here's the one that includes
making the hands.
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On 1/5/25 12:01 PM, Peter Brooks via groups.io wrote: Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those
used to making tiny things!
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock.
The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement
aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are
bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping
slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t
visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back
of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps
the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just
try to drill out the holes.
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)?
Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it
possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on
the new shaft now.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials
Lyle Peterson (mrpete222, "Your Youtube Shop Teacher") has a series of
four videos on making graduated dials for a lathe. He makes a set for
his Logan lathe, but the process will be the same for any lathe. All
that is necessary is to adjust the size for the Unimat.
Here's a link to the playlist that has the videos: Shop Tips #177-180
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On 1/5/25 7:44 PM, Frank In PA via groups.io wrote: I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable
handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some
posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past.
It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial
indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not
interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer
adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the
equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock
manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the
friction type.? A search through the Files section did not yield much
information as to how to make them.? An article in ME Workshop
(Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of
large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone
has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set
would be greatly appreciated.? Thank You
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Thanks all for the good advice. I¡¯ll try soldering up the split first, planning to introduce a little solder into the hole at the same time, and then file it with a very fine rat tailed file. Nothing to lose.
(Harking back to previous discussions part of the problem is seeing what on earth is going on!)
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
For the cost and trouble of getting new hands and buying broaches if you don't have them, maybe either give up or get a different movement.
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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials
Hello, Frank!
I am currently mounting a DRO on the Z axis and it is not easy to do.
I am with you on making a set of resettable dials on the other two axis. In fact I might abandon the DRO entirely if I am successful with the resettable dials. I also think larger dials are a plus. A few years ago I bought a set of satin chrome re- setable dials from Little Machine Shop for my Mini Lathe.
They are first class and might be just the thing we are looking for. I will look into it and keep you posted. I still have one new one that I can use to start.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
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Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials
I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past. It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the friction type.? A search through the Files section did not yield much information as to how to make them.? An article in ME Workshop (Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set would be greatly appreciated.? Thank You
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
There are several suppliers of clock parts - Timesavers is one that I use regularly but there are others as well. ?You should be able to get a new set of hands there (Klockit is another one I have used). ?In order to open holes you use a broach to slowly open the hole and then friction fit it on. ?I have several sets of broaches but in a pinch you should be able to make one. ?There are special punches for closing holes that clock makers use for this purpose and if the hole is just slightly too large then this is how I would correct the problem. ?If I was trying to salvage the existing hand with the split I would likely solder a piece of steel or brass to the back of the hand, drill it out and then broach it to the size needed to friction fit it. ?If the hand has a pipe that is a different matter - I have never made a new pipe so I can¡¯t help there.
Good Luck Dan L.
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On Jan 5, 2025, at 10:01?AM, paul b via groups.io <pointfivebsw@...> wrote:
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What are the hands made from? Can the split be soldered? Or can you solder a piece of metal (e.g. brass) to the rear, file to suit and drill?
As for opening up small holes 5 sided tapered broaches are the best thing to use, taking out a tiny amount at a time. Drilling undersize and opening out with a broach is a safe way of getting a decent fit, whether that be running or interference.
Reducing hole size has been mentioned, finding a ball bearing that sits on the hole then tapping with a hammer would be my choice for something that small, that way you're spreading the metal precisely where needed.
Paul B.
On Sunday 5 January 2025 at 17:01:20 GMT, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
<IMG_3015.jpeg>
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Can you solder or braze the crack?? Car guys do "dimple dies" to thicker and heavier metals. Maybe something like that would help? You? could solder/braze the hole to fill it and repair the crack, then form a correctly sized hole and dimple. Might take more than a bit of experimentation... Pretty sure I couldn't get it right the first few time I tried.
Might also try pressing in a hub, and drilling that. Not at all sure which would be easiest or fastest. If I trip over any of the horology books I have, I'll see if they have any info. You might want to look at old horology books at archive.org, too, probably faster than waiting on me to get the lead out...
Tripped over the book while cleaning around the pile that my desk is hiding under. Has a bit on making and using a tool for prying hands off a watch, but nothing about making or fitting hands that I could find. And then I lost my phone for a few hours.
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 11:01:19 AM CST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Thanks Paul - the hands are ferrous I think, they stick to a magnet.
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Solder is a great idea, in fact if that works it may be worth cutting a split in the other hand and expanding and ¡®fixing¡¯ it in the same way.
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Failing that I think I¡¯ll try filing off the flange and soldering on a piece of thin brass as you suggest.
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I knew folks would have some good ideas !
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
What are the hands made from? Can the split be soldered? Or can you solder a piece of metal (e.g. brass) to the rear, file to suit and drill?
As for opening up small holes 5 sided tapered broaches are the best thing to use, taking out a tiny amount at a time. Drilling undersize and opening out with a broach is a safe way of getting a decent fit, whether that be running or interference.
Reducing hole size has been mentioned, finding a ball bearing that sits on the hole then tapping with a hammer would be my choice for something that small, that way you're spreading the metal precisely where needed.
Paul B.
On Sunday 5 January 2025 at 17:01:20 GMT, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Thanks for the ideas¡ it¡¯s actually split but it¡¯s worth a go, nothing to lose I guess!
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
Correction to my post of a moment ago..? The word "busying" should of course be "bushing."
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:10:24 AM PST, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:
I think you might be able to reduce the hole size on the minute hand by pounding on the piece in that area to "flatten" it a little more.? The material has to go someplace, and the hole should close a bit.? I would use something with a rounded end, so material is focused to move only to the interior and not the exterior of the piece.? And pound on the back side where it won't show.? I've read about this trick to make a hole smaller from time to time, but don't think I've done it myself.
Another possibility would be to make a very thin busying to enlarge the shaft.? Even the smallest bushing you could make would probably now make the shaft too large and you would then have to open the hole a little.? If so, I would use a very small round file and some patience and trial and error.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:01:21 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
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Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please
I think you might be able to reduce the hole size on the minute hand by pounding on the piece in that area to "flatten" it a little more.? The material has to go someplace, and the hole should close a bit.? I would use something with a rounded end, so material is focused to move only to the interior and not the exterior of the piece.? And pound on the back side where it won't show.? I've read about this trick to make a hole smaller from time to time, but don't think I've done it myself.
Another possibility would be to make a very thin busying to enlarge the shaft.? Even the smallest bushing you could make would probably now make the shaft too large and you would then have to open the hole a little.? If so, I would use a very small round file and some patience and trial and error.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:01:21 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
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Tiny clock hands - advice please
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
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OldToolmaker
Bill in OKC too