I truly appreciate Dial Calipers...
When I attend classes, I take a pair of dial calipers and the digital dial calipers that convert to mm at touch of a button, they are truly useful, and I generally have a pair on our Dining Room table so I can measure something quickly.
In terms of doing projects on a metal lathe, I think it is very, very useful to have 2 pairs.? One pair measures the diameter, and 1 pair measures the length... this has been very helpful when I'm making duplicate parts.??
Tamra
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
Hello
Dick:
I think
the biggest problem with the metric conversion ( changing our
standards ) that they focused on metric conversions (
calculations of conversions of values from imperial to metric
) with all the odd ratios. If they had focused more on the
simplicity of working in metric and the idea of abandoning old
standards ( Letter, Fraction and Number drill sizes, etc. ) it
might have flown. As it is metric is all around us and we are
mostly using imperial for home projects.
Carl.
On 9/15/2023 8:29 PM, OldToolmaker via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I remember back in the fifties,sixtys and seventies the US was
actively attempting to adopt the metric system and had a plan to
accomplish same. However, the US could not muster up enough
support from various industry factions to maintain traction. The
auto industry and others bucked and consequently the attempt
failed big time due to conversion costs. Somehow I lived through
it all and only have a few scars to show for it. I had forgotten
the debacle entirely until this discussion awakened my memory.
Dick
--
forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST
PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE
LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT
MODIFICATION
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
I wouldn¡¯t worry too much about which system is ¡°better¡±, when you consider that ALL of the units we use for length, mass, or time are variables and change with one¡¯s velocity.? The effects of Einstein¡¯s special theory of relativity are not easily ?observed at slower velocities, but as one starts to approach the speed of light, time slows down, mass increases, ?and distance shrinks when they are observed from an outside frame of reference.? The reason that our GPS system works as well as it does is because we are able to predict what happens to time in the satellite clocks as they circle the earth and compensate for the changes.? ? Jerry F. ????? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin P. via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 8:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unimat] Off Topic measuring units? I will readily admit the Metric system (Actually S.I.) is more logical and calculation-friendly. I grew up with U.S. Customary, so that is most natural for me. That said, I do like the color (colour) of U.S./Imperial system. The foot was originally supposed based an English king's foot. Someone here knows which one. The mile is from Latin mille, 1000. Originally 1000 Roman long paces (about 5'). IOW, based on something tangible. The meter was like that originally, one ten-millionth of the distance from the to the along a . Redefined several times into something arbitrary. Which adds another wrinkle to U.S. Customary. Now we have two different feet, the common or officially the International Foot, which is based on a metric conversion. The U.S. Survey Foot, which corresponds to the original foot used in historical surveys. (1 FTUS = 1.000002 FT) It can make a significant difference when using State Plane Coordinates, which here in Florida the Northings and Eastings run into six digits left of the decimal. On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 09:23:02 PM EDT, Gerald Feldman <gfeldman2904@...> wrote: Metric rocks <snip> furlongs per fortnight. ? Jerry F. ? ? ? ?
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
I remember back in the fifties,sixtys and seventies the US was actively attempting to adopt the metric system and had a plan to accomplish same. However, the US could not muster up enough support from various industry factions to maintain traction. The auto industry and others bucked and consequently the attempt failed big time due to conversion costs. Somehow I lived through it all and only have a few scars to show for it. I had forgotten the debacle entirely until this discussion awakened my memory.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
|
Hi
Gang:
For
real fun Pattern Shops use "shrink scales", to build wooden
patterns for sand casting iron or aluminum. They are a certain
percentage over sized so when the metal cools it is the
desired size.
For fun
the old timers would slip the shrink scale to an apprentice
and watch as he cut stock over sized, etc.
The one
mile that makes sense to me is the Nautical Mile, it equals 1
minute of distance at the equator of the earth. Handy for
navigation, on the seas and also in space??
Carl.
On 9/15/2023 1:13 PM, Dave Seiter
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have a couple of Brown
& Sharpe 6" rules that have tenths and hundredths on one
side.? One has 32nds and 64ths on the reverse, but the other
is blank.? I don't know how many times I've picked up the
blank one wanting to use the fractional scale and ended up
estimating using 10ths scale.? When I took drafting and
architectural drawing in high school, we had one drafting
table out of the 30 or so in the class where all the scales
were 1/10 and 1/00.? It was rarely used.?
-Dave
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 07:43:06 AM PDT, Martin
P. via groups.io <mdupreno1@...> wrote:
As an engineer working with land
surveys and building design, I routinely use 10ths
and 100ths of a foot, as well as feet and inches and
fractions.
As a shooting aficionado, I am used to
caliber (100ths of an inch), and millimeters. So I
have no problem visualizing dimensions in any of
these.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 02:03:04 PM
EDT, Peter Brooks <peter@...>
wrote:
You engineering types have all been decimal
for years¡ tenths, hundredths, thous¡
|
Re: Mensuration, was Re: [Unimat] What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
Yes, the metrification of plywood drives me nuts!? At least the other dimensions are correct.? Another change is the length and width of 5mm (3/16") luan; it used to be exactly 4x8', but now I always check because sometimes it's accurate, most of the time it's about 1/8-3/16" too long, and sometimes both length and width are too big.? I think it depends on the country of origin.?
-Dave
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 11:07:47 AM PDT, pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote:
So now that you mention it a 4x8 sheet of plywood from the local Home Depot is not 3/4" thick it is 19mm which really screws up projects when you come out off a 32 or 64.? Pain in the Axx if you ask me.? ? I have engineering rulers graduated in 10ths, 12ths, 16ths, 32nds, and in metric also they have scales that adjust to divisions or multiples thereof.? I bought them years ago for scaling projects to size..? ?They come in quite handy when I need them.? ?
pat
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
That's no crazier than King Edward II's 14th century definition of an inch,?¡°three grains of barley, dry and round, placed end to end lengthwise.¡±
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
A tum is the thumb width.? What part of the thumb I'm not sure.? I always assumed the knuckle, but mine would be 1.15 tums without pressing against the scale.? The width at the base of the thumb nail is right on, but of course, everyone is different!
-Dave
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 11:07:01 AM PDT, Peter Brooks <peter@...> wrote:
Isn¡¯t an inch supposed to be one division (section) on the thumb? Might be the same origin.
|
Re: Older Unimat PC power supply Solved!
I figured it out!?? After dismantling the electrical components, it appears that the Off switch was actually stuck down, i.e., not popping back up.? I got some contact spray into in and the unit is running once again. ? ? Ron L ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Ron L"Herault <lherault@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 10:38 AM
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Subject: Older Unimat PC power supply? Hi Folks! ? I have an older Unimat PC (so it says on its tag) which just stopped. Fuse is good, motor spins, no smell, and I did not let any smoke out.? Can anyone point me in the right direction to fix it??? Might the capacitor have died?? Transformer was warm but not exceedingly hot. ? Thanks! ? Ron L in exceedingly damp North Attleboro, MA
|
Re: Mensuration, was Re: [Unimat] What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
So now that you mention it a 4x8 sheet of plywood from the local Home Depot is not 3/4" thick it is 19mm which really screws up projects when you come out off a 32 or 64.? Pain in the Axx if you ask me.? ? I have engineering rulers graduated in 10ths, 12ths, 16ths, 32nds, and in metric also they have scales that adjust to divisions or multiples thereof.? I bought them years ago for scaling projects to size..? ?They come in quite handy when I need them.? ?
pat
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
Isn¡¯t an inch supposed to be one division (section) on the thumb? Might be the same origin.
|
Re: What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
Jerry; you popped a memory bubble.? ?Back in Naval Nuclear Power School (1974) in order to grasp unit conversions, we had all sorts of goofy conversions to do.? One was to convert furlongs per fortnight to inches per second, to mm per second .....? ?As? some of our calculations dealing with forces inside a reactor at power could be mind numbing.? ? Anyhow thanks for the blast from the past.? ?
Pat
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
Perhaps a "thumb" is a digit (1/24 of a cubit). [:-)
Martin P.
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 01:29:23 PM EDT, Dave Seiter <d.seiter@...> wrote:
I have a ~4" vernier caliper from the around the time Sweden was changing their measuring system around 1875. Three of the scales I've ID'd, but one is really odd- the unit size is about 1.6".? One of the scales is "tums", (thumbs), which were about .97".
-Dave
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
There are subtle differences I think between some US and UK measurements I think, fluids I think? I never liked fluid ounces etc, I¡¯ll stick to pints, quarts and gallons (and of course gills and jacks).
The yard (three feet) is meant to be the length between the nose and the end of the finger of an outstretched hand (outstretched to the side that is, not in front). In guesstimating distance it is reckoned to be a stride.
All this talk of measurement makes me wonder how people managed in times gone by. I have an interest in film photography and old lenses, and have been particularly fascinated by the UK company Taylor, Taylor, Hobson (who eventually introduced and manufactured the famous ¡®Cooke¡¯ lenses). They were early adopters of the RPS standard which used Whitworth threads in specific sizes for lenses and fixing flanges, 24TPI or 12TPI, depending on size. The fit of these items is truly delicious, made in the late 1800s. ?(TTH also made and sold machinery, including engravers and measurement equipment. One of their lesser known later inventions is dimples on the golf ball !)
Then we have clocks¡ I was lucky enough to see some wonderful, beautiful Harrison clocks at an exhibition at the Greenwich Observatory (London) in the millennium year, 2000. The tale of Harrison and the competition set by the Navy to solve the problem of accurate navigation is quite well known and drove their development I think.
How on earth did he achieve such accuracy, so long ago? The horologists among us may know¡
It seems stuff is all too easy these days, calculators, computers, DRO, CNC, digital everything. I¡¯m just pleased to have discovered dial indicators (having spent the vast majority of my 66 years blissfully unaware of their existence :-)
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
I have a ~4" vernier caliper from the around the time Sweden was changing their measuring system around 1875. Three of the scales I've ID'd, but one is really odd- the unit size is about 1.6".? One of the scales is "tums", (thumbs), which were about .97".
-Dave
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 08:59:20 AM PDT, Martin P. via groups.io <mdupreno1@...> wrote:
I will readily admit the Metric system (Actually S.I.) is more logical and calculation-friendly.
I grew up with U.S. Customary, so that is most natural for me. That said, I do like the color (colour) of U.S./Imperial system.
The foot was originally supposed based an English king's foot. Someone here knows which one. The mile is from Latin mille, 1000. Originally 1000 Roman long paces (about 5').
IOW, based on something tangible. The meter was like that originally, one ten-millionth of the distance from the to the along a . Redefined several times into something arbitrary.
Which adds another wrinkle to U.S. Customary. Now we have two different feet, the common or officially the International Foot, which is based on a metric conversion. The U.S. Survey Foot, which corresponds to the original foot used in historical surveys. (1 FTUS = 1.000002 FT) It can make a significant difference when using State Plane Coordinates, which here in Florida the Northings and Eastings run into six digits left of the decimal.
Martin P.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 09:23:02 PM EDT, Gerald Feldman <gfeldman2904@...> wrote:
Metric rocks <snip> furlongs per fortnight. ? Jerry F. ? ? ?
|
Re: What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
I have a couple of Brown & Sharpe 6" rules that have tenths and hundredths on one side.? One has 32nds and 64ths on the reverse, but the other is blank.? I don't know how many times I've picked up the blank one wanting to use the fractional scale and ended up estimating using 10ths scale.? When I took drafting and architectural drawing in high school, we had one drafting table out of the 30 or so in the class where all the scales were 1/10 and 1/00.? It was rarely used.?
-Dave
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 07:43:06 AM PDT, Martin P. via groups.io <mdupreno1@...> wrote:
As an engineer working with land surveys and building design, I routinely use 10ths and 100ths of a foot, as well as feet and inches and fractions.
As a shooting aficionado, I am used to caliber (100ths of an inch), and millimeters. So I have no problem visualizing dimensions in any of these.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 02:03:04 PM EDT, Peter Brooks <peter@...> wrote:
You engineering types have all been decimal for years¡ tenths, hundredths, thous¡
|
Re: Off Topic measuring units
I will readily admit the Metric system (Actually S.I.) is more logical and calculation-friendly.
I grew up with U.S. Customary, so that is most natural for me. That said, I do like the color (colour) of U.S./Imperial system.
The foot was originally supposed based an English king's foot. Someone here knows which one. The mile is from Latin mille, 1000. Originally 1000 Roman long paces (about 5').
IOW, based on something tangible. The meter was like that originally, one ten-millionth of the distance from the to the along a . Redefined several times into something arbitrary.
Which adds another wrinkle to U.S. Customary. Now we have two different feet, the common or officially the International Foot, which is based on a metric conversion. The U.S. Survey Foot, which corresponds to the original foot used in historical surveys. (1 FTUS = 1.000002 FT) It can make a significant difference when using State Plane Coordinates, which here in Florida the Northings and Eastings run into six digits left of the decimal.
Martin P.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 09:23:02 PM EDT, Gerald Feldman <gfeldman2904@...> wrote:
Metric rocks <snip> furlongs per fortnight. ? Jerry F. ? ? ?
|
Re: What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
Carl's post reminded me to add that, as he pointed out, some liquids at the grocery are measured in fluid ounces, some in liters. Canned foods are typically in ounces of weight (avoirdupois, troy ounces are for precious metals).
Fresh meats and vegetables in pounds and ounces. But take a look at the required nutritional information on any packaged food, and you will see grams!
Land mph, on the water, knots.
Even though we (in the English-speaking world) tend to think the push to metrification started in the 1970s, not so. In WWII, U.S. Navy used artillery bore in inches, range in yards. While at the same time U.S. Army had bore in millimeters, range in meters. My father was Army artillery in the Pacific campaign, fired 155 mm "Long Toms", the most powerful artillery the Army had. Sometimes they had to call on the Navy to defeat Japanese hardened concrete bunkers. 16" guns fired from (nautical) miles at sea. They had better get the conversion correct!
The medical profession in USA has long used metric units.
Martin P.
On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 10:43:05 AM EDT, Martin P. via groups.io <mdupreno1@...> wrote:
As an engineer working with land surveys and building design, I routinely use 10ths and 100ths of a foot, as well as feet and inches and fractions.
As a shooting aficionado, I am used to caliber (100ths of an inch), and millimeters. So I have no problem visualizing dimensions in any of these.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 02:03:04 PM EDT, Peter Brooks <peter@...> wrote:
You engineering types have all been decimal for years¡ tenths, hundredths, thous¡
|
Re: What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
As an engineer working with land surveys and building design, I routinely use 10ths and 100ths of a foot, as well as feet and inches and fractions.
As a shooting aficionado, I am used to caliber (100ths of an inch), and millimeters. So I have no problem visualizing dimensions in any of these.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 02:03:04 PM EDT, Peter Brooks <peter@...> wrote:
You engineering types have all been decimal for years¡ tenths, hundredths, thous¡
|
Re: What is the 'BEST' Unimat ?
Unimat? I can do .5, ,6, .75, .8, .9, 1.0, 1.25, and 1.5 on my DB.
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:04:33 PM EDT, Dave Seiter <d.seiter@...> wrote:
One of these days I'm going to get a small native metric lathe specifically for metric threading.? ?Eventually...
-Dave
|
Tamra
Carl
OldToolmaker
Ronald LHerault