Yes.? Shapers were once pretty common.? The production drawback was the time wasted on the back stroke which, of course, does no cutting.? They are designed (usually a straight mechanical design but a hydraulic scheme came later) so the backstroke is faster than the cut stroke to help at least a little bit.
Since this group has a small machine focus, there have even been hobbyist sized shapers, notably by Adept in England (almost made a small lathe popular with hobbyists), that are hand powered.? You can see that here:
A planer (for metal, not like a wood planer) is another machine some may not be aware of.? It is a cousin to the shaper, but typically larger, much larger, where the tool bit is stationary, and a long table holding the work piece moves to and fro.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 09:24:33 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Ah, like this:
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA_i5-kKv3s
?
(Yet another machine I never knew existed! :-)
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Cutting a grove on the milling column, a couple of methods come to mind.? You could use a carbide blade on a table saw, lock the column so it couldn't rotate and make a couple shallow passes with the table saw.? ?Another way would be to use a key way cutter in a router on a router table and cut a grove that way, or use a dovetail cutter to cut a triangular grove in the milling column.? ?As for the head only a small depth would be needed and using a dremel with a diamond burr would be sufficient to hog off material, and finish with a file using it as a gouge to cut the square shape.?
?
?Just my old school farm boy raised thoughts, oh and my dad was a blacksmith.?
?
pat
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Tapmatic 70x Reversible Tapping Attachment #10-5/8 Capacity up for auction on shopgoodwill.com.
There is a Tapmatic 70x Reversible Tapping Attachment #10-5/8 Capacity up for auction on shopgoodwill.com
This might be useful for someone who has a larger lathe, I have a DB200 so this is to big for mine.
Looks like it could be a morse taper 2...
?
URL:
https://shopgoodwill.com/item/217491933
?
Richard
?
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Ah, like this:
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA_i5-kKv3s
?
(Yet another machine I never knew existed! :-)
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Long-stroke metal shaper. I've got a 10" Lewis shaper, and that would be too short, I think. Close, anyway. Grabbed my milling column for the DB200, and it's 11-1/4", or about 286mm. The collar is maybe a couple inches, assuming you use the stock bed, or a piece thereof. Maybe an inch or so with commercial collars. Grooving the column itself would be more of a problem, if you? need the whole length grooved. There's a stepped shank on it that's a bit over 1-3/8" long. Don't currently have access to metric measuring tools...? About 15/16" diameter stepped down to about 3/4". Just shy of 24mm to 19 or 20mm.?
Clamping the post to cut the triangular groove in it would be interesting. Clamping the base should be pretty straight-forward.? I'd need to make a fixturing table for the shaper, too. Needed to do that? anyway.?
Most machine shops in the US don't have shapers anymore. They're way slow. They're still in production in Asia. It was said that you could make anything on a shaper but money. And they use single point tooling like lathe cutters, which can be pretty cheap. For those not familiar with metal shapers, this one isn't mine, but it is a Lewis. They were sold as a kit of castings from the 1920's to 1957ish. And every one of them is different.? And they do take up a fair amount of space.
Bill in OKC?
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes fcfrom bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 01:03:31 AM CST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
We¡¯ve had some discussions lately touching on the marvellous triangular gib, which got me wondering - how would you machine a shaped groove internally in a tube (along it¡¯s length)?
I¡¯m thinking it would have to be a cutter mounted at 90 degrees, using some sort of pinion drive or similar, but I have absolutely no experience of heavier engineering, so have no idea !
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Thanks, that is impressive. Definitely something sturdier than a Unimat!
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I had seen more than once examples of making a keyway using a lathe like a shaper.? By traversing the carriage back and forth manually.
Found this video showing exactly that.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 02:16:15 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:
Thanks Richard, and for the link.
?
The page on ¡®Involute Broaches¡¯ shows some tooling of triangular section, looks like that is likely.
?
Back and forth I guess, with a constant downward pressure. Which led me to look at ¡®broaching machines¡¯.
?
You learn something everyday. ¡®Life long learning¡¯, as they say.
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Thanks Richard, and for the link.
?
The page on ¡®Involute Broaches¡¯ shows some tooling of triangular section, looks like that is likely.
?
Back and forth I guess, with a constant downward pressure. Which led me to look at ¡®broaching machines¡¯.
?
You learn something everyday. ¡®Life long learning¡¯, as they say.
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I would think a custom spline broach would do the job.
They can be ordered in standard or custom shapes, but are not cheap.
Spline broaches can be made to order in many complex shapes.
Spline broaches are used to make flutes inside faucet handles, fluted drive shaft couplers, internal gears, etc.
Spiral spline broaches are used to create rifling in gun barrels.
?
For more info...
Google spline broach.
?
See:
https://broachingmach.com/spline-broaching-the-complete-guide/
?
Richard
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We¡¯ve had some discussions lately touching on the marvellous triangular gib, which got me wondering - how would you machine a shaped groove internally in a tube (along it¡¯s length)?
I¡¯m thinking it would have to be a cutter mounted at 90 degrees, using some sort of pinion drive or similar, but I have absolutely no experience of heavier engineering, so have no idea !
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Re: Emco Unimat 3 Keep Plate Material?
You might not be aware, but issues with the effectiveness of the ¡®keep plates¡¯ have been discussed a few times in the forum, most recently (just the other day) in this thread
If you¡¯re having to remake them then this a good time at try to fix this annoying trait.
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Brass has been suggested, I plan to use oilon, mildly rebated at the contact area with the carriage, and then shimmed so that the plates make a good grip.
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Like so many things, I have yet to get round to it¡ ?:-)
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Emco Unimat 3 Keep Plate Material?
Hello, All. I'm new to the forum. I need to make new keep plates for my Emco Unimat 3 lathe cross slide. Any suggestions about what material would work best? Thanks!
?
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Re: Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
Hello:
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 11:17 AM, Herman de Leeuw wrote:
You're welcome.
... a pair of new brass gibs seems feasible enough.
Yes, of course it is feasible.
If I could do it, you can too.
?
But it is not enough.
?
I may have not properly explained this problem some / many (?) U3s have, so I'll try again.
?
Here goes:
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1. the gibs are bolted on to a surface on the underside of the carriage.
2. most of the width of the gib rests on that surface but not all of it.
3. the part that does, registers a plane which should be on the same plane on which the underside of the flat belonging to the bed is.
4. if these conditions are met, the gibs do their work properly as the carriage is kept in position* by the gibs which are sliding along the underside of the flat as it moves to and from along the bed with just a film of oil btween them.
* it will not move upwwards
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The problem we are up against is that the conditions described above are not being met.
?
The reason being that with the gibs (any gibs) tightened and in place, the border of the gib that is supposed to be sliding along the underside of the flat belonging to the bed is not on the same plane as the underside.
?
As a result, the carriage can move upwards at any given time, not just while turning an internal thread.
?
This is not a problem with normal lathes because they have carriages which are, heavier / solid and made from cast steel while the U3 carriage is very small (in relative terms), has been hollowed out as much as possible to save a few bucks and, adding insult to injury, is cast from Zamak or some such pot metal suff.
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Things being what they are, it is up to the gibs to do the job that gravity cannot do.
?
But the first thing you have to tackle is this specific issue.
A new set of gibs, however well made, will not improve anything if they don't work properly.
ie: as described in points 1 to 4 above.
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With respect to the set screws:
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A set of properly working/installed gibs (see the Belville washers on the screws hoding them in place) will, depending on the material used* show a bit of wear. That wear can be offset by a very light touch on those screws till more wear comes along.
?
Eventually and depending the amount of use your U3 has had, you can turn the gibs over (longitudinally) till you have to make a new set.
Maybe in 10 years' time.
* I suggest hard brass
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Let me know if you have more questions.
?
Best,
?
JHM
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Re: Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
Thanks a lot for this, Julius,
?
Making a pair of new brass gibs seems feasible enough.
?
Just one question about the set screws (gleaned from the Sieg) - would this mean installing a set of excentric screws, so you can "sideshift" the gibs from and towards the rail bed?? Which to me sounds like a wonderful idea.
?
Herman
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Op 13-12-2024 12:33 CET schreef Julius Henry Marx via groups.io <sawbona@...>:
?
?
Hello:
?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 12:39 PM, Herman de Leeuw wrote:
?
... my Unimat 3, using Emco's thread cutting set ...
?
I have the same attachment but as I use taps and dies for most everything, I have only tested it once to see how it fared with the turning of an external M14x1.0 thread. It worked quite well and I think it is a big improvement over the #150.250 thread-cutting attachment which also came with the U3 when I purchased it but never used.
?
That said, the most important thing I found while learning to come to terms with my ca. 1980 U3 was that it lacked the rigidity needed to be used properly. This has been mentioned a few times on the web, among other problems the carriage gibs have been frequently cited as a souce but a proper solution was never posted.
?
The carriage gib replacement issue was partly addressed here?and here some time ago.
?
Searching on how to solve this basic and very annoying issue I eventually found out about a problem that plagues a great many Unimat 3s and even later models, something I had not seen referenced anywhere else.
ie: the lack of proper fit in the carriage strip / lift plate arrangement (or whatever it is called).
?
I had searched for months on end all over the web to see if I could find out what was going on to no avail.
Eventually I got a post from a frequent commentator at the Model Engineers forum which shed light on the matter:
?
... the mating surfaces of the underside of the saddle held the 'lift strips' a tiny bit away from their ways on the bed, so the saddle could move vertically. Some careful blueing, and needle-file work on the saddle soon had them snug. Problem solved."
?
You can read the longish thread at the Model Engineer forum showing various opinions and the solution I eventually implemented which included a significant improvement made by OEM of the Sieg C0, reportedly a clone of the U3. There is also the addition of felt strips under the new the gibs to act as oil reservoirs.Not my idea: it was a tip from an old timer with 60+ years in front of a lathe.
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See attached photographs.
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All I can say is that it made a huge difference in how the carriage behaved while turning.
eg: it actually stopped showing the same symptoms the carriage on your U3 seems to be showing.
?
Best,
?
JHM
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Re: Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
Thanks Keith,?
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Your point about the upward movement is appreciated, I will experiment a bit and hopefully can keep all of you posted. But first of all, I will check whether shimming the carriage/?ross slide in the axial direction (towards the motor) might do the trick. Probably I will have to do this step by step.
?
Herman
Op 13-12-2024 06:59 CET schreef Keith S. Angus via groups.io <keithsangus@...>:
?
?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 03:39 PM, Herman de Leeuw wrote:
could I cut thread by rotating it 180 degrees.
I was thinking of trying this myself - I can see some advantages. A possible snag is that the cutting forces will be acting upwards, lifting the carriage off the bed. Check for any slack movement upwards and maybe shim or adjust to minimise it. That might be difficult as I don't think the plate under the carriage is intended to be a close fit - just to stop the carriage falling off. If you reduce the clearance it might have some tight spots. Also, if you reduce the clearances maybe you wouldn't get the problem anyway.
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Re: Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
Hello:
?
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 12:39 PM, Herman de Leeuw wrote:
?
... my Unimat 3, using Emco's thread cutting set ...
?
I have the same attachment but as I use taps and dies for most everything, I have only tested it once to see how it fared with the turning of an external M14x1.0 thread. It worked quite well and I think it is a big improvement over the #150.250 thread-cutting attachment which also came with the U3 when I purchased it but never used.
?
That said, the most important thing I found while learning to come to terms with my ca. 1980 U3 was that it lacked the rigidity needed to be used properly. This has been mentioned a few times on the web, among other problems the carriage gibs have been frequently cited as a souce but a proper solution was never posted.
?
The carriage gib replacement issue was partly addressed here?and here some time ago.
?
Searching on how to solve this basic and very annoying issue I eventually found out about a problem that plagues a great many Unimat 3s and even later models, something I had not seen referenced anywhere else.
ie: the lack of proper fit in the carriage strip / lift plate arrangement (or whatever it is called).
?
I had searched for months on end all over the web to see if I could find out what was going on to no avail.
Eventually I got a post from a frequent commentator at the Model Engineers forum which shed light on the matter:
?
... the mating surfaces of the underside of the saddle held the 'lift strips' a tiny bit away from their ways on the bed, so the saddle could move vertically. Some careful blueing, and needle-file work on the saddle soon had them snug. Problem solved."
?
You can read the longish thread at the Model Engineer forum showing various opinions and the solution I eventually implemented which included a significant improvement made by OEM of the Sieg C0, reportedly a clone of the U3. There is also the addition of felt strips under the new the gibs to act as oil reservoirs.Not my idea: it was a tip from an old timer with 60+ years in front of a lathe.
?
See attached photographs.
?
All I can say is that it made a huge difference in how the carriage behaved while turning.
eg: it actually stopped showing the same symptoms the carriage on your U3 seems to be showing.
?
Best,
?
JHM
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Re: Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 03:39 PM, Herman de Leeuw wrote:
could I cut thread by rotating it 180 degrees.
I was thinking of trying this myself - I can see some advantages. A possible snag is that the cutting forces will be acting upwards, lifting the carriage off the bed. Check for any slack movement upwards and maybe shim or adjust to minimise it. That might be difficult as I don't think the plate under the carriage is intended to be a close fit - just to stop the carriage falling off. If you reduce the clearance it might have some tight spots. Also, if you reduce the clearances maybe you wouldn't get the problem anyway.
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Two questions on manual thread cutting on Unimat 3
I have recently started cutting thread on my Unimat 3, using Emco's thread cutting set with change wheels that is still being sold by Emco as an Unimat 4 accessory (see and the screen shot below).?
?
External threading goes very well with this set, but when I turned to internal threading, I found that the carriage suffers from a slight play that tilts the carriage slightly off its normal orientation - the carriage's left upper corner (the one facing the motor)? was pushed in the direction of the motor, so I could not ,make a proper thread. I then ascertained to tighten all usual suspects and tried again, but not very successfully.
?
So I wondered whether this might be avoided by repositioning the cutting tool.
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Rather then having the point of the tool bit directed to me, could I cut thread by rotating it 180 degrees. That way, the cutting point is in the direction of the motor, thus avoiding the carriage to be pushed out of square since the cutting force would now push the carriage towards me ...
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Just out of curiosity, I wonder whether any of you experienced the same and if so, what can be done to ensure that internal thread cutting goes just as well as external thread cutting? Should I perhaps shim the carriage part that is facing the motor side??
?
Many thanks in advance for any input you are willing to share,
?
Herman
?
?
 ?
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Re: Jewelers Loupe Head Band?
I've been an Optivisor user for quite a few years now, and on my last trip to the opticians I was advised to use it along with my new reading glasses, apparently to help me focus when wearing the 'visor. I'm quite glad I'm not the only one who uses one whilst machining on their Unimat! I bought my 'visor for modelmaking, but I also use it when sewing and more recently when whetstoning my kitchen knives (to examine the edge, my knives were in quite a state).
Tamra - 40 stitch per inch sounds quite challenging, 14 count Aida is quite enough thank you!
Paul B.
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Re: Jewelers Loupe Head Band?
The Optivisor has been a standard of the jewelry industry in the US for
decades.
That said, when I was an apprentice the master jeweler who was training
me had a headband magnifier made by Zeiss. Zeiss makes some of the best
lenses in the world, superior to any other consumer-grade lenses. I
always coveted that magnifier.
Some years ago I set a search notification on ebay for Zeiss headband
magnifiers, and after only about three years one came up in good shape
and at a price that was not exorbitant. It's now my standard bench
magnifier. The magnification is about equal to the Optivisor #2.5. The
clarity of the image is superior to the Optivisor.
I keep a #5 lens in my old Optivisor for when I need higher magnification.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Bill in OKC too
Herman de Leeuw
