Re: Dumb question dept. - and what about the Unimat grub screw
Hi
Gang:
And the
Unimat is the perfect machine to change a set screw to Dog
Point. ( Carbide might help )
Carl.
On 8/30/2023 8:17 AM, OldToolmaker via
groups.io wrote:
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If you are going to buy one or two look for “dog point set screws”
I have a box of them from other projects.
Dick
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Re: Dumb question dept. - and what about the Unimat grub screw
If you are going to buy one or two look for “dog point set screws” I have a box of them from other projects.
Dick
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Re: Dumb question dept. - and what about the Unimat grub screw
Screws that are missing several threads and cut square at the end of the screw are “dog screws”.? ? Jerry F. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Herman de Leeuw via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 1:52 AM
To: [email protected]; Sjkochan@...; johnhutnick@...
Subject: Re: [Unimat] Dumb question dept. - and what about the Unimat grub screw? Thanks for the fascinating discussion. If I may, what would be the advice for the grub screws that are found on the Unimats? Which form should these have? So far, I believe mine (for drilling head and tail stock) to be flat with some 3 mm of thread removed. Op 30-08-2023 04:24 schreef Tool247 <sjkochan@...>: Yes the typical smaller screws are cold formed. The end of the screw shows what happens when a formed thread is not supported. Those smaller screws are squished between 2 plates with slanted grooves. That is what forms the threads. When the cylindrical shank is squished some of the material deforms out of the end of the screws. If the screw has a squished looking end it was cold formed. If it is perfectly flat with a chamfer then it is machined out of bar stock. Usually over 1” are machined.? Under a 1/4” are made on high speed machines, 1/4-7/8” are on larger former machines and 1” and over are usually machined. That is why pricing changes quite drastically around those sizes.? ? If you look carefully, many bolts are not actually flat on the end.? At times I have had to machine the end of a screw flat to not have marring. ? ?
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Re: Dumb question dept. - and what about the Unimat grub screw
Thanks for the fascinating discussion. If I may, what would be the advice for the grub screws that are found on the Unimats? Which form should these have? So far, I believe mine (for drilling head and tail stock) to be flat with some 3 mm of thread removed.
Herman
Thanks in advance?
Op 30-08-2023 04:24 schreef Tool247 <sjkochan@...>:
Yes the typical smaller screws are cold formed. The end of the screw shows what happens when a formed thread is not supported. Those smaller screws are squished between 2 plates with slanted grooves. That is what forms the threads. When the cylindrical shank is squished some of the material deforms out of the end of the screws. If the screw has a squished looking end it was cold formed. If it is perfectly flat with a chamfer then it is machined out of bar stock. Usually over 1” are machined.?
Under a 1/4” are made on high speed machines, 1/4-7/8” are on larger former machines and 1” and over are usually machined. That is why pricing changes quite drastically around those sizes.?
If you look carefully, many bolts are not actually flat on the end.? At times I have had to machine the end of a screw flat to not have marring.
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Yes the typical smaller screws are cold formed. The end of the screw shows what happens when a formed thread is not supported. Those smaller screws are squished between 2 plates with slanted grooves. That is what forms the threads. When the cylindrical shank is squished some of the material deforms out of the end of the screws. If the screw has a squished looking end it was cold formed. If it is perfectly flat with a chamfer then it is machined out of bar stock. Usually over 1” are machined.?
Under a 1/4” are made on high speed machines, 1/4-7/8” are on larger former machines and 1” and over are usually machined. That is why pricing changes quite drastically around those sizes.?
?
If you look carefully, many bolts are not actually flat on the end.? At times I have had to machine the end of a screw flat to not have marring.
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Kevin Groenke @ PersonMakeObject
Also, the reason set (grub) screws have many end varieties is because that is a "working" portion of the design. On typical bolts and applicatiin, the primary "working" portion of the design is the head and shoulder which, of course, there are almost countless varieties of.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:57 PM Peter Brooks < peter@...> wrote: I have a dumb question - why are there flat, cup and cone termination varieties of grub screw, when bolts only (as far as I’m aware) come in one style?
I’m guessing they have a specific purpose…
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If you look carefully, many bolts are not actually flat on the end.? At times I have had to machine the end of a screw flat to not have marring.
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Hello
Peter:
You are
right, bolts usually only have the straight end, but there are
self-tapping ends.
But the
Point is the "working" end of a set screw, and each Point has
a special purpose.
Flat
and Oval points are mostly for clamping and not damaging the
shaft.
Cup and
Cone points are for more robust clamping where scoring the
shaft is acceptable.
Dog and
Half Dog points (also called
extended point)? often seat in slots in shafts allowing a
sliding fit.
Soft-Tip
points avoid damaging the shaft and can be brass or plastic.
There
are also Hollow-Lock set screws for locking and adjusting a
second set screw.
Check
for a large assortment.
Carl.
On 8/29/2023 2:57 PM, Peter Brooks
wrote:
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I have a dumb question - why are there flat, cup and cone
termination varieties of grub screw, when bolts only (as far as
I’m aware) come in one style?
I’m guessing they have a specific purpose…
|
Kevin Groenke @ PersonMakeObject
I was thinking of writing an answer but just did a copy/paste from Wikipedia instead. Also, many bolts do have different end shapes.
"Set screws appear with a variety of tip (point) types. The different shaped tips have different properties that engineers can utilize. If an engineer were to use a detent to ensure proper nesting of the screw, they might choose to use a cone point type of screw. One might often need to use a flat point when the screw must press perfectly flat against a surface. The most common type is the cup point. This type works well because the surface is rounded so that a small surface area is in contact, but it does not have extremely high stress at one point like that of a cone point. Durability studies show that the cup point offers superior resistance to wear while maintaining a strong grip. Knurled cup points offer the added advantage of a locking action (similar to that of a serrated lock washer) that prevents the screws from working loose in high-vibration applications."
On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:57 PM Peter Brooks < peter@...> wrote: I have a dumb question - why are there flat, cup and cone termination varieties of grub screw, when bolts only (as far as I’m aware) come in one style?
I’m guessing they have a specific purpose…
|
I have a dumb question - why are there flat, cup and cone termination varieties of grub screw, when bolts only (as far as I’m aware) come in one style?
I’m guessing they have a specific purpose…
|
Hello Jeffrey,
I agree every one of us has only a limited amount of time and non of us knows how much time that is so we make the most it while we are still able.
Dick
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On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 05:14 PM, Jkle379184 wrote:
Tom's Tool Store has gone the way of many of our old suppliers. I used the Way Back Machine Internet search engine and located his old site. I was then able to download his old online catalog so I have the information and photos for the Unimats.?
I'm pretty sure all the information, but with detailed drawings and part numbers of many more parts, is available in the files section where there are Unimat manuals for the DB/SL and the U3. Not sure about the U4 or the PC/Basic.
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Hello, John
Yes, I have lifetime supply of belt making materials and years ago happened upon a package of ten DB-200 headstock bearings at an auction. Also picked up a box of used spindles.
Dick
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This is like most hobbies where people have a range of interests and points of view.? None are inherently wrong.? One person's view may be different from that of another, but that does not negate anyone's view.
In the business world, "make or buy" decisions tend to be strongly based on hard facts like cost, time, and in-house capability.? In a hobby, nobody has to follow these rules.? They can do whatever they want.? And not do whatever they don't want..
For example, on the largest mini-lathe group, there are countless projects being done to improve the quality of the lathe and make all manner of attachments.? This exists to the point where you seldom see a non-lathe project actually made on the lathe.? And there is nothing wrong with that.? Many are first time lathe owners where the lathe itself becomes a project and the get a lot of fun and satisfaction.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 07:59:05 PM PDT, John Entwistle via groups.io <jentwistle3@...> wrote:
What sort of stuff should we be making? Bearings? Drive belts? I grind my own hss, but i’m not making any end mills or drill bits.
On Aug 26, 2023, at 8:54 PM, OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote: ?
Yes, we probably should be making our own parts for our own machines,?although not all Unimat owners are willing to expend their time on making their own?parts for their machines. I for one enjoy building my own Unimat parts. I like the freedom from reliance?on others for my replacement parts. I do?not need to be dependent?on others and the?high prices they charge. Dick
On Saturday, August 26, 2023, 2:46 PM, Jeffrey Kropp <jeffreykropp1@...> wrote: ? ? ? ?I have reached an age where time is not unlimited.? Therefore I prefer to use my time for making things other than more lathe accessories.? YouTube often shows me ways of machining something w/o giving in to the temptation of acquiring additional lathe tooling..... This idea of making your own parts is too difficult and time consuming.? I have lathes, etc., to make things for my hobby, model trains.? My hobby is not to be supporting the Unimat.? Many Unimats and their accessories I keep as a collector.? When I want to do work, I frequently turn to other machines:? Emco, Sherline, Cowells, Taig.? I am fortunate to have them, but they are a lifetime of collecting.
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What sort of stuff should we be making? Bearings? Drive belts? I grind my own hss, but i’m not making any end mills or drill bits.
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On Aug 26, 2023, at 8:54 PM, OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote: ?
Yes, we probably should be making our own parts for our own machines,?although not all Unimat owners are willing to expend their time on making their own?parts for their machines. I for one enjoy building my own Unimat parts. I like the freedom from reliance?on others for my replacement parts. I do?not need to be dependent?on others and the?high prices they charge. Dick
On Saturday, August 26, 2023, 2:46 PM, Jeffrey Kropp <jeffreykropp1@...> wrote: ? ? ? ?I have reached an age where time is not unlimited.? Therefore I prefer to use my time for making things other than more lathe accessories.? YouTube often shows me ways of machining something w/o giving in to the temptation of acquiring additional lathe tooling..... This idea of making your own parts is too difficult and time consuming.? I have lathes, etc., to make things for my hobby, model trains.? My hobby is not to be supporting the Unimat.? Many Unimats and their accessories I keep as a collector.? When I want to do work, I frequently turn to other machines:? Emco, Sherline, Cowells, Taig.? I am fortunate to have them, but they are a lifetime of collecting.
-- http://www.homemadetools.net/ forum/ ?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS??LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS??QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
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Yes, we probably should be making our own parts for our own machines,?although not all Unimat owners are willing to expend their time on making their own?parts for their machines. I for one enjoy building my own Unimat parts. I like the freedom from reliance?on others for my replacement parts. I do?not need to be dependent?on others and the?high prices they charge.
On Saturday, August 26, 2023, 2:46 PM, Jeffrey Kropp <jeffreykropp1@...> wrote: ? ? ? ?I have reached an age where time is not unlimited.? Therefore I prefer to use my time for making things other than more lathe accessories.? YouTube often shows me ways of machining something w/o giving in to the temptation of acquiring additional lathe tooling..... This idea of making your own parts is too difficult and time consuming.? I have lathes, etc., to make things for my hobby, model trains.? My hobby is not to be supporting the Unimat.? Many Unimats and their accessories I keep as a collector.? When I want to do work, I frequently turn to other machines:? Emco, Sherline, Cowells, Taig.? I am fortunate to have them, but they are a lifetime of collecting.
--
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?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
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? ? ? ?I have reached an age where time is not unlimited.? Therefore I prefer to use my time for making things other than more lathe accessories.? YouTube often shows me ways of machining something w/o giving in to the temptation of acquiring additional lathe tooling.....
This idea of making your own parts is too difficult and time consuming.? I have lathes, etc., to make things for my hobby, model trains.? My hobby is not to be supporting the Unimat.? Many Unimats and their accessories I keep as a collector.? When I want to do work, I frequently turn to other machines:? Emco, Sherline, Cowells, Taig.? I am fortunate to have them, but they are a lifetime of collecting.
|
This idea of making your own parts is too difficult and time consuming.? I have lathes, etc., to make things for my hobby, model trains.? My hobby is not to be supporting the Unimat.? Many Unimats and their accessories I keep as a collector.? When I want to do work, I frequently turn to other machines:? Emco, Sherline, Cowells, Taig.? I am fortunate to have them, but they are a lifetime of collecting.
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Shouldn't you all be making your own parts by now ?
On Saturday, 26 August 2023 at 19:02:43 BST, John K5MO <johnk5mo@...> wrote:
Ebay: Yes Stock up: Yes, yrs ago.
So we identify who/what no longer exists for Unimat supplies.? Now what is the conclusion?? There is nowhere to buy anything?? Do Unimat owners buy everything on Ebay only?? Does this mean that all of us should stock up this way on any Unimat item that we might conceivably need in the future?
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Ebay: Yes Stock up: Yes, yrs ago.
So we identify who/what no longer exists for Unimat supplies.? Now what is the conclusion?? There is nowhere to buy anything?? Do Unimat owners buy everything on Ebay only?? Does this mean that all of us should stock up this way on any Unimat item that we might conceivably need in the future?
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Carl
OldToolmaker
Herman de Leeuw
Tool247
John Entwistle