I use a 6" grinder in the garden, bolted to a plank which is in? turn held in a Workmate, as .
Paul B.
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Hi Bill, Which DMT fine diamond stone at $8 clearance price?were you referring to? Home Depot lists a lot of DMT products.
Inquiring minds, and all¡
Best,?
On Sunday, April 16, 2023, 6:30 PM, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote: Exactly!! Old school tools, old school books! Some things I like to have digitally, but this stuff I want on my desk/bench with coffee/grease stains on the covers.?
I ordered the Atlas book for 6" & 10" inch lathes, since none of them are Unimats, this seemed the most relevant. I think the basic lathe procedures should translate.
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Re: Casting an aluminum motor mount for DC motor upgrade
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the best aluminum for casting is aluminum from previous castings, so pistons and rims are great, but cans and? scrap plate aluminum will work, but aren't great.
-Dave
On Saturday, April 15, 2023 at 08:04:10 PM PDT, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks! My very long bucket list has lots of things related to making/building/fixing/modifying that I might only do a few times, but it feels good to attempt it, hopefully succeed, maybe find a new side hobby. I bought a pneumatic riveter years ago, the kind they used on 737s, and a crap load of various rivet sizes and countersink bits.? I used it to make a heated bed for a 3D printer, maybe I'll use it again, but a totally rewarding experience even if I don't.
Casting is one of those that I think will be more practical. I've been stockpiling aluminum parts and cans, thinking about approaching auto shops for old pistons/blocks (did you ever watch "The Worlds Fastest Indian", where he casts his own pistons in primitive sand molds? His formula for the perfect alloy was - one part Ford, one part Chevy!) Being able to design and print using plastics, and then use that as a basis for a mold is huge.?
Not too long ago, anything I tried to make had to be out of wood, or metal crudely shaped with a hacksaw and a hand drill. So many options today.
|
Exactly!! Old school tools, old school books! Some things I like to have digitally, but this stuff I want on my desk/bench with coffee/grease stains on the covers.?
I ordered the Atlas book for 6" & 10" inch lathes, since none of them are Unimats, this seemed the most relevant. I think the basic lathe procedures should translate.
|
If you must, cover EVERYTHING with oily rags, or paper towels, to catch the grit from the grinding wheels. Better to have a separate grinder though. Better still, to keep the grinder away from your lathe.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 05:47:55 PM CDT, Jeff R. Allen <jra@...> wrote:
My Unimat came with grinding wheels, which lead me to believe that it was possible (and common?) to sharpen tools right on the Unimat. What do y'all think about that?
Having used 6" grinders for years and years, I'd advise an 8" or 10" IF you can find and afford one, space, money, or time! Though 6" will do it. Even done it on a 5" with narrow wheels.?
?For the diamond hone, I'm fond of these:??Though I have also used the 3-hone set HF used to sell. And I recently picked up a DMT Fine diamond hone bench stone for under $8 on clearance from Home depot. Two, actually, and gave one to my youngest, for working on restoring pen nibs and the like. ;)
You could also use a piece of fine wet-or-dry paper or cloth stretched over a ice cream stick, or a file...?
Sharper the edge, the better your cuts, and the easier it cuts.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 02:39:19 PM CDT, Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...> wrote:
Grinding tool bits has commonly been "lesson #1" in machine shop classes because it is so fundamental.? And if you don't get it at least somewhat right, nothing will work out very well.? Also, once you get a good idea of clearance and rake angles, you will understand that the same concepts apply to other cutting tools like milling cutters and twist drills, or even a bit used in a shaper or planer..
I recommend a typical 6 inch bench grinder and no smaller.? You CAN go smaller, but things will go a lot slower.? And I suggest trying to locate the grinder a little bit away from other machine tools, or make some barrier, to help keep grinding dust away.? Grinding dust is not good to get on lathe ways and such.
And consider getting a "wheel dresser" to make the wheel nice and straight across again when it gets rounded or cupped.? There is more than one type.? The most common has a bunch of wheels with teeth such that when you look at it you ask, "how in the heck can this possible work?"? But they do.? Another type has a diamond impregnated flat block on the end of a holding handle.
You can get fancier sharpening tools such as water cooled ones, but you really don't need them.
I also recommend getting a diamond hand hone.? This is an extremely useful little tool that way too many hobbyists don't know about.? After grinding the tool bit, a few swipes of the hand hone really puts a sharp edge on it.? And it can also be used to refresh a slightly dulled edge, even with the tool bit still mounted in the tool holder.? You don't need a really expensive one (like you might find at a supply house like MSC Industrial).? Something in the $10 to $30 price range should be fine.? McMaster Carr has some low priced ones and there are low priced ones, and sets, on Amazon.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 12:08:18 PM PDT, Elliot Nesterman < elliot@...> wrote:
The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation has ben digitized and can be downloaded from the Internet Archive. The South Bend book is digitized and available to borrow. Elliot Nesterman On 4/16/23 2:19 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and
will look for those books!
-- Elliot Nesterman elliot@..."The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Hello Jeff,
While the Unimat came with grinding wheels and they were originally intended for use on the Unimat itself, it is not a good practice to follow and I will explain why. When the grinding wheel is dressed or in other words is trued with a diamond dresser or dressing stick it spreads grinding grit over the entire machine. This grit can get onto everything and cause excessive wear on mating surfaces. If grinding must be done then cover all exposed surfaces with a protective tarp or piece of plastic.
If it was my machine I just would not grind on or near the Unimat period.
Dick
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My Unimat came with grinding wheels, which lead me to believe that it was possible (and common?) to sharpen tools right on the Unimat. What do y'all think about that?
Having used 6" grinders for years and years, I'd advise an 8" or 10" IF you can find and afford one, space, money, or time! Though 6" will do it. Even done it on a 5" with narrow wheels.?
?For the diamond hone, I'm fond of these:??Though I have also used the 3-hone set HF used to sell. And I recently picked up a DMT Fine diamond hone bench stone for under $8 on clearance from Home depot. Two, actually, and gave one to my youngest, for working on restoring pen nibs and the like. ;)
You could also use a piece of fine wet-or-dry paper or cloth stretched over a ice cream stick, or a file...?
Sharper the edge, the better your cuts, and the easier it cuts.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 02:39:19 PM CDT, Charles Kinzer < ckinzer@...> wrote:
Grinding tool bits has commonly been "lesson #1" in machine shop classes because it is so fundamental.? And if you don't get it at least somewhat right, nothing will work out very well.? Also, once you get a good idea of clearance and rake angles, you will understand that the same concepts apply to other cutting tools like milling cutters and twist drills, or even a bit used in a shaper or planer..
I recommend a typical 6 inch bench grinder and no smaller.? You CAN go smaller, but things will go a lot slower.? And I suggest trying to locate the grinder a little bit away from other machine tools, or make some barrier, to help keep grinding dust away.? Grinding dust is not good to get on lathe ways and such.
And consider getting a "wheel dresser" to make the wheel nice and straight across again when it gets rounded or cupped.? There is more than one type.? The most common has a bunch of wheels with teeth such that when you look at it you ask, "how in the heck can this possible work?"? But they do.? Another type has a diamond impregnated flat block on the end of a holding handle.
You can get fancier sharpening tools such as water cooled ones, but you really don't need them.
I also recommend getting a diamond hand hone.? This is an extremely useful little tool that way too many hobbyists don't know about.? After grinding the tool bit, a few swipes of the hand hone really puts a sharp edge on it.? And it can also be used to refresh a slightly dulled edge, even with the tool bit still mounted in the tool holder.? You don't need a really expensive one (like you might find at a supply house like MSC Industrial).? Something in the $10 to $30 price range should be fine.? McMaster Carr has some low priced ones and there are low priced ones, and sets, on Amazon.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 12:08:18 PM PDT, Elliot Nesterman < elliot@...> wrote:
The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation has ben digitized and can be downloaded from the Internet Archive. The South Bend book is digitized and available to borrow. Elliot Nesterman On 4/16/23 2:19 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and
will look for those books!
-- Elliot Nesterman elliot@..."The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Having used 6" grinders for years and years, I'd advise an 8" or 10" IF you can find and afford one, space, money, or time! Though 6" will do it. Even done it on a 5" with narrow wheels.?
?For the diamond hone, I'm fond of these:??Though I have also used the 3-hone set HF used to sell. And I recently picked up a DMT Fine diamond hone bench stone for under $8 on clearance from Home depot. Two, actually, and gave one to my youngest, for working on restoring pen nibs and the like. ;)
You could also use a piece of fine wet-or-dry paper or cloth stretched over a ice cream stick, or a file...?
Sharper the edge, the better your cuts, and the easier it cuts.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 02:39:19 PM CDT, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:
Grinding tool bits has commonly been "lesson #1" in machine shop classes because it is so fundamental.? And if you don't get it at least somewhat right, nothing will work out very well.? Also, once you get a good idea of clearance and rake angles, you will understand that the same concepts apply to other cutting tools like milling cutters and twist drills, or even a bit used in a shaper or planer..
I recommend a typical 6 inch bench grinder and no smaller.? You CAN go smaller, but things will go a lot slower.? And I suggest trying to locate the grinder a little bit away from other machine tools, or make some barrier, to help keep grinding dust away.? Grinding dust is not good to get on lathe ways and such.
And consider getting a "wheel dresser" to make the wheel nice and straight across again when it gets rounded or cupped.? There is more than one type.? The most common has a bunch of wheels with teeth such that when you look at it you ask, "how in the heck can this possible work?"? But they do.? Another type has a diamond impregnated flat block on the end of a holding handle.
You can get fancier sharpening tools such as water cooled ones, but you really don't need them.
I also recommend getting a diamond hand hone.? This is an extremely useful little tool that way too many hobbyists don't know about.? After grinding the tool bit, a few swipes of the hand hone really puts a sharp edge on it.? And it can also be used to refresh a slightly dulled edge, even with the tool bit still mounted in the tool holder.? You don't need a really expensive one (like you might find at a supply house like MSC Industrial).? Something in the $10 to $30 price range should be fine.? McMaster Carr has some low priced ones and there are low priced ones, and sets, on Amazon.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 12:08:18 PM PDT, Elliot Nesterman <elliot@...> wrote:
The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation has ben digitized and can be
downloaded from the Internet Archive.
The South Bend book is digitized and available to borrow.
Elliot Nesterman
On 4/16/23 2:19 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and
will look for those books!
-- Elliot Nesterman elliot@... www.ajoure.net "The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Grinding tool bits has commonly been "lesson #1" in machine shop classes because it is so fundamental.? And if you don't get it at least somewhat right, nothing will work out very well.? Also, once you get a good idea of clearance and rake angles, you will understand that the same concepts apply to other cutting tools like milling cutters and twist drills, or even a bit used in a shaper or planer..
I recommend a typical 6 inch bench grinder and no smaller.? You CAN go smaller, but things will go a lot slower.? And I suggest trying to locate the grinder a little bit away from other machine tools, or make some barrier, to help keep grinding dust away.? Grinding dust is not good to get on lathe ways and such.
And consider getting a "wheel dresser" to make the wheel nice and straight across again when it gets rounded or cupped.? There is more than one type.? The most common has a bunch of wheels with teeth such that when you look at it you ask, "how in the heck can this possible work?"? But they do.? Another type has a diamond impregnated flat block on the end of a holding handle.
You can get fancier sharpening tools such as water cooled ones, but you really don't need them.
I also recommend getting a diamond hand hone.? This is an extremely useful little tool that way too many hobbyists don't know about.? After grinding the tool bit, a few swipes of the hand hone really puts a sharp edge on it.? And it can also be used to refresh a slightly dulled edge, even with the tool bit still mounted in the tool holder.? You don't need a really expensive one (like you might find at a supply house like MSC Industrial).? Something in the $10 to $30 price range should be fine.? McMaster Carr has some low priced ones and there are low priced ones, and sets, on Amazon.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 12:08:18 PM PDT, Elliot Nesterman <elliot@...> wrote:
The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation has ben digitized and can be
downloaded from the Internet Archive.
The South Bend book is digitized and available to borrow.
Elliot Nesterman
On 4/16/23 2:19 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and
will look for those books!
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
The Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation has ben digitized and can be
downloaded from the Internet Archive.
The South Bend book is digitized and available to borrow.
Elliot Nesterman
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 4/16/23 2:19 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and
will look for those books!
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
You can find the books online as pdf's, and print out some of the tables of info you need, easily, but while I love having a digital library, I also love real paper books, so I try to have both! Only got one paper copy of the Atlas book, the one appropriate to my Atlas TH42, but I think I have 4 or 5 of the South Bend book, including one that's appropriate for my 1941 SB Heavy 10L, and both older and newer editions, as well. Plus several of each in digital formats. I've got a fairly cheap Android phone from Motorola with a 465GB(claims to be 500GB) microSD card nearly full, and a Samsung 10.5" tablet with a 1TB, about 900GB actual, microSD in it. Screens big enough to watch a video at the lathe... ;) And enlarge pages in the digital editions of the books. Comes in handy! A really excellent source of older books on machining, grinding tooling, and the like, is archive.org. You can find a lot of good info there from the years before 1924 mostly being out of copyright.?? the link is a search I made on "machine tools" which is really a little too general, but one of the items there is a manual for a Maximat 7. You won't get a lot of material if you search for "Unimat" there, but you will get some. Lathe, milling machine, and other search terms might find you a whole bunch more. ;)?
Atlas lathe & South Bend lathe will get you PDF (among other formats) of the Atlas MOL & SB HTRL, and the SB Machine Shop Projects books. You can also find them on eBay or Amazon, sometimes in paper.
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, April 16, 2023 at 01:19:49 PM CDT, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote:
Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and will look for those books!
|
Thanks Gents! Excellent resources! Watching Mr. Pete as we speak, and will look for those books!
|
Milling table differences between Unimat 3 and DB200/SL1000 versions¡
Hey there.
anyone aware of any real differences here.?
I vaguely remember the version for the U3 had deeper t-slots?
what about using on both Lathe types any issues?
thanks,
Jeff
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Hello Steve!
Lathe tool grinding was the first subject taught in Trade School and the first skill I had to master as a beginner. There are two old books I have in my library that teach how to grind lathe tools. (1) How to run a lathe by South Bend (2) Lathe Operation by Atlas and later published by Craftsman and later Sears Robuck.
Both are excellent and good resources.
Dick
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Mr. Pete222 is a good start, and this is really the best place to start:?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Saturday, April 15, 2023 at 09:17:41 PM CDT, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote:
I'm a new Unimat owner, and I've only turned a few pieces with Delrin rod. I'm pretty ambitious about getting into more serious turning, but I have zero knowledge about the art/craft of creating and maintaining sharp tooling. Like what kind of grinder, standard tool shapes and what they are for, keeping things sharp, correct angles between the tooling and the workpiece, etc, etc.
So much to learn/understand, and I'd rather not go completely trial and error.
Any good resources you can share about how to go about it the right way?
(I've also never sharpened a drill bit, chisel, plane blade, saw blade, etc - not in any professional way - but I'd like to correct that too!)
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Re: Casting an aluminum motor mount for DC motor upgrade
Kevin Groenke @ PersonMakeObject
Thanks Steve! FWIW, nothing on the bracket was milled. Drill press, bandsaw, sanders, drills and taps are all that were used to fab the bracket.? Kevin Groenke
human of planet earth
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 10:02 PM Steve Johnson < steve@...> wrote: BTW, your milled mount looks awesome. Hope to get to that skill level someday.
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Re: Casting an aluminum motor mount for DC motor upgrade
BTW, your milled mount looks awesome. Hope to get to that skill level someday.
|
Re: Casting an aluminum motor mount for DC motor upgrade
Thanks! My very long bucket list has lots of things related to making/building/fixing/modifying that I might only do a few times, but it feels good to attempt it, hopefully succeed, maybe find a new side hobby. I bought a pneumatic riveter years ago, the kind they used on 737s, and a crap load of various rivet sizes and countersink bits.? I used it to make a heated bed for a 3D printer, maybe I'll use it again, but a totally rewarding experience even if I don't.
Casting is one of those that I think will be more practical. I've been stockpiling aluminum parts and cans, thinking about approaching auto shops for old pistons/blocks (did you ever watch "The Worlds Fastest Indian", where he casts his own pistons in primitive sand molds? His formula for the perfect alloy was - one part Ford, one part Chevy!) Being able to design and print using plastics, and then use that as a basis for a mold is huge.?
Not too long ago, anything I tried to make had to be out of wood, or metal crudely shaped with a hacksaw and a hand drill. So many options today.
|
Re: Casting an aluminum motor mount for DC motor upgrade
Kevin Groenke @ PersonMakeObject
Cool! I commend your iniative to undertake your own casting Steve! When I swapped in a Foredom motor, I fabbed it out of 1/2" aluminum plate.
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023, 6:49 PM Steve Johnson < steve@...> wrote: I have almost two complete Unimat SLs, yet to be installed in my new micro shop (that is waiting to be built..). The 2nd machine, which I will set up for milling, will have a dc motor installed. I've seen examples of taking the dc motor apart and drilling new holes that would line up with the original Emco mount. But I thought I'd save the $65ish Ebay cost and make my own. Especially since I won't need the dog leg where the idler pulley would go.
Too many concurrent projects of course - I still need to set up my foundry and cast some ingots, build a vacuum chamber to pull the air bubbles out of the plaster mold, and build a kiln to burnout the lost PLA that I am using as the positive for the mold. All new territory, but looking forward to it.?
I'll post updates as I go. Here is the 3D print for the mount. If anyone is interested and has their own foundry/casting setup, I'm happy to share the design/STL files.?
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Beautiful knives! Thanks for sharing another example of what is possible with these little machines. Very inspiring.
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Steve Johnson
Bill in OKC too
OldToolmaker
rcjge
