A long time ago we had this discussion. In England the three taps are Taper, Second & Plug and a bottoming tap is usually made by grinding the point and lead off a pug tap so you can tap all the way to the bottom of a blind hole.
In America the three taps are Taper, Second & Bottoming. Hence confusion. I have decided to call them First, Second & Third. Should be clear enough to everyone.
To add to the confusion a lot of sets these days do not cut the full thread form until you use the third one. I often use a taper tap, the first one, to cut full threads in thin materials. Sometimes that won't work now.
Ages ago I had to tap a lot of M6 holes in a bit of framework. The holes were drilled in a pillar drill, and then I used a pistol drill to run the tap through, forward and reverse, BUT that was in Al alloy. In steel you would need specialised tap, not sure just what, spiral point, spiral flute, but there are taps to do the job.
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Probably not what you are looking for, but I use this. ?An easy conversion to a reversing electric drill. 
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I've had drills walk all over before, but never tried to start a hole with a flat bottom drill. I keep trying to tell people I'm crazy, not stupid. ;) Not sure how many of them are buying it! Great investment for starting drills where you want them is an automatic center punch. You can buy them, or build one yourself. Starrett makes a really nice one, but this is what I've been using for years:? ?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 11:38:12 AM CST, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
Hi Tim:
I
remember the stamping die shop I was in hired a mold maker
from LA. In die sets they drill holes for springs and call for
flat bottoms. Not used to die work the mold maker tried to
start the hole with the flat bottom drill, it walked all over
the die set. We then told him to drill to depth with a regular
drill and then remove the corners with a flat bottom drill.
Carl.
On 2/24/2023 12:06 PM, vt_biketim
wrote:
I'm confused¡ªI've never had a bottoming tap and
I've seen others in this group say all their bottoming taps were
made up from broken plug taps. I thought the whole purpose of
the bottoming tap was to finish the thread at the bottom of a
blind hole. Why would you need one for a through hole??
Tim in VT
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Depends on how deep the hole is. If you can run the tap all the way down, you don't need a bottoming tap for a through hole. If your tap is too short, you might. You can certainly make a bottoming tap from a broken tap, but you can buy bottoming taps, too. And sets of taps. I've gotten a few sets, with a taper tap, plug tap, and bottoming tap, and made a few bottoming taps. Depends on how the money is flowing. ;)? A home-made bottoming tap from a broken tap will be shorter than the factory bottoming tap. You can braze an extension onto a tap to get more reach if you need it.?
I've never been flush enough to buy a Tapmatic, though I'd love to, and if I ever wind up rich, I will certainly get a set! ;) I may just try the homebrew tapping head, got a couple of 12V B&D drills that batteries aren't available for.?
Useful info on taps, and the various types of taps:?
HTH!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 11:06:49 AM CST, vt_biketim <tchock59@...> wrote:
I'm confused¡ªI've never had a bottoming tap and I've seen others in this group say all their bottoming taps were made up from broken plug taps. I thought the whole purpose of the bottoming tap was to finish the thread at the bottom of a blind hole. Why would you need one for a through hole??
Tim in VT
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Hi Tim:
I
remember the stamping die shop I was in hired a mold maker
from LA. In die sets they drill holes for springs and call for
flat bottoms. Not used to die work the mold maker tried to
start the hole with the flat bottom drill, it walked all over
the die set. We then told him to drill to depth with a regular
drill and then remove the corners with a flat bottom drill.
Carl.
On 2/24/2023 12:06 PM, vt_biketim
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I'm confused¡ªI've never had a bottoming tap and
I've seen others in this group say all their bottoming taps were
made up from broken plug taps. I thought the whole purpose of
the bottoming tap was to finish the thread at the bottom of a
blind hole. Why would you need one for a through hole??
Tim in VT
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? ? ?If you grind the end of a broken tap flat, you have a bottoming tap.? Sometimes useful even?on a through hole in an odd position.
On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 12:06 PM vt_biketim < tchock59@...> wrote: I'm confused¡ªI've never had a bottoming tap and I've seen others in this group say all their bottoming taps were made up from broken plug taps. I thought the whole purpose of the bottoming tap was to finish the thread at the bottom of a blind hole. Why would you need one for a through hole??
Tim in VT
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I'm confused¡ªI've never had a bottoming tap and I've seen others in this group say all their bottoming taps were made up from broken plug taps. I thought the whole purpose of the bottoming tap was to finish the thread at the bottom of a blind hole. Why would you need one for a through hole??
Tim in VT
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Hello
Dick and Elliot:
I had a
lot of holes to tap in plastic and built a reversing tapper
from a cordless drill:
The
switch is a DPDT push button to reverse the drill.
Then
when I was at my brother-in-law's we needed to tap a bunch of
holes so we built a crank to clamp on his drill press spindle:
Guided
tapping is the way to go, I try to avoid hand tapping at all
cost!
Good
luck, Carl.
On 2/24/2023 10:30 AM, Elliot Nesterman
wrote:
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Show quoted text
Dick,
If you set up the Uni as a mill/drill press and use a spiral point
tap
you could knock these out pretty quickly, if you have a reversing
motor.
With the standard Uni motors removing the tap will take a bit of
hand
cranking. How much cranking depends on the depth of the hole.
For through holes a spiral point tap is what you want. For blind
holes
use a spiral flute tap.
Elliot
On 2/24/23 9:43 AM, OldToolmaker via groups.io wrote:
Charles,
I owned two Tapmatic tappers some years ago. They are nice to
use and I
wish I still had them. They are very expensive to buy even on
the used
market. It is not cost effective for me and the job I have.
Dick
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Dick,
If you set up the Uni as a mill/drill press and use a spiral point tap
you could knock these out pretty quickly, if you have a reversing motor.
With the standard Uni motors removing the tap will take a bit of hand
cranking. How much cranking depends on the depth of the hole.
For through holes a spiral point tap is what you want. For blind holes
use a spiral flute tap.
Elliot
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/24/23 9:43 AM, OldToolmaker via groups.io wrote: Charles,
I owned two Tapmatic tappers some years ago. They are nice to use and I
wish I still had them. They are very expensive to buy even on the used
market. It is not cost effective for me and the job I have.
Dick
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Charles,
I owned two Tapmatic tappers some years ago. They are nice to use and I wish I still had them. They are very expensive to buy even on the used market. It is not cost effective for me and the job I have.
Dick
?
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If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, it doesn't seem very practical.? That's a pretty small size for that sort of thing.? Thread milling is a close cousin to single point threading and requires the same lathe capability to feed at a thread rate as the part rotates.? The only difference is that you have a powered rotating milling cutter independently powered and twirling about as you make just a single pass to create the thread instead of a threading tool and multiple passes.? I would think that for a 6 mm thread it would be extremely difficult to pull off.? Maybe I'm missing something here.
I used to handle a lot of repetitive tapping using a "fast tapper" or "tapping head" (Tapmatic brand in my case) which is a device with a clutch that automatically reverses once the tapping is done and you start withdrawing.? Might be worth looking into.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 05:09:29 PM PST, OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote:
I have a requirement for some M6 internally threaded through holes. In the past I have done this same job by drilling holes and tapping with a standard tap followed by a bottoming tap.I usually produce about 80 pieces. As you can see this is a tedious and monotonous task.
This time I am seriously considering doing this job by internal thread milling on the lathe.
I am wondering if anyone on this group has ever contemplated doing the same? I have the means of grinding a carbide milling cutter so that will not be an issue. The parts are about 6mm through.
Dick
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I have a requirement for some M6 internally threaded through holes. In the past I have done this same job by drilling holes and tapping with a standard tap followed by a bottoming tap.I usually produce about 80 pieces. As you can see this is a tedious and monotonous task.
This time I am seriously considering doing this job by internal thread milling on the lathe.
I am wondering if anyone on this group has ever contemplated doing the same? I have the means of grinding a carbide milling cutter so that will not be an issue. The parts are about 6mm through.
Dick
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Hello, Carl!
That is interesting.
I use little collars with brass set screws for travel limits on the way bars. This works well and is easily adjusted.
Dick
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Hi Gang:
I used my Unimat to mill holes for switches in Light Tables I built back in 1988. The material was 3/32" aluminum and the holes were 2cm x 4cm. I drilled a large starting hole on the drill press and them milled the rest with an 1/8" endmill. Since the holes were all the same size I used hose clamps on the ways for stops. Worked fine.
Carl.
On 02/21/2023 4:06 AM Unimat Matt <matthewtay2020@...> wrote:
The Sieg C0 is basically a copy of the Unimat 3, hence the similarities.
If you want my opinion, don't bother trying to mill on either of the unimats or your sieg. They simply aren't rigid enough.
Keep the sieg and spend your money on a dedicated mill. The best micro mills around are the Sherline 5000 and the Cowells B100. The proxxon PF230 is ok too.
If you have a bit more space a Hobbymat 65 or Sieg X1 might be an option.
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Re: Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
The Sieg C0 is basically a copy of the Unimat 3, hence the similarities.
If you want my opinion, don't bother trying to mill on either of the unimats or your sieg. They simply aren't rigid enough.
Keep the sieg and spend your money on a dedicated mill. The best micro mills around are the Sherline 5000 and the Cowells B100. The proxxon PF230 is ok too.
If you have a bit more space a Hobbymat 65 or Sieg X1 might be an option.
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Re: Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
Hi Nick, Would you perhaps know of someone looking to clear some space and sell a C1 with Mill setup ?
On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 07:41:46 GMT, Nick Clarke <nickc@...> wrote:
Hi ¨C ? Just to confuse the issue further - instead of going to the effort of making a milling setup for your C0 or spending on a Unimat setup (although I would not be without mine, alongside my SC3) what about parting with the C0 and acquiring a Sieg C1 complete with milling setup? ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of clankennedy2004 via groups.io
Sent: 20 February 2023 22:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unimat] Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice ! ? Hey Guys, Just calling in tonight to ask your opinion on milling on a Unimat v Making a unimat style mill for the Sieg C0 ! So i own an Axminster C0 Baby lathe but its fairly basic with few accessories and id like to upgrade it so that I can perform milling operations ! But then i saw that a Unimat can be converted into a mill and then I thought hey just buy a unimat instead and I can turn and mill on it ! But Unimat seems to be VERY expensive and many parts are hard to find. Its aimed at hobbyists,watchmakers perhaps and and educational device for young uns and I don't believe they are worthy of the prices being asked unless its a rarity influence ? Are they even made anymore or are they now obsolete ? So what are my options ? I have the small axminster but its also very light duty and quite restricted. IN time I will restore a Zyto lathe thats a little larger but its not there yet ! So hmmm yea :/ what to do ?
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Re: Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
Hi ¨C ? Just to confuse the issue further - instead of going to the effort of making a milling setup for your C0 or spending on a Unimat setup (although I would not be without mine, alongside my SC3) what about parting with the C0 and acquiring a Sieg C1 complete with milling setup? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of clankennedy2004 via groups.io
Sent: 20 February 2023 22:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unimat] Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice ! ? Hey Guys, Just calling in tonight to ask your opinion on milling on a Unimat v Making a unimat style mill for the Sieg C0 ! So i own an Axminster C0 Baby lathe but its fairly basic with few accessories and id like to upgrade it so that I can perform milling operations ! But then i saw that a Unimat can be converted into a mill and then I thought hey just buy a unimat instead and I can turn and mill on it ! But Unimat seems to be VERY expensive and many parts are hard to find. Its aimed at hobbyists,watchmakers perhaps and and educational device for young uns and I don't believe they are worthy of the prices being asked unless its a rarity influence ? Are they even made anymore or are they now obsolete ? So what are my options ? I have the small axminster but its also very light duty and quite restricted. IN time I will restore a Zyto lathe thats a little larger but its not there yet ! So hmmm yea :/ what to do ?
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Re: Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
Just a few thoughts? I would suggest that you do more research on the Unimat and consider it as an option.? I'm familiar with the C0 and I would not be inclined to put more time and money it its direction.? But if that works for you, fine.
Yes, the Unimat is somewhat collectible, but good deals can turn up at places like eBay, especially if you are willing to do some cleanup and tuneup and perhaps clean some rust off.
As one example, this is a photo of one I just sold about a month ago on eBay for $899 but it was in really nice condition, and it came with the 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks and a ground tool bit set and even an SCR motor controller along with all the basics.
Some of the accessories do go for crazier prices, but most are not needed by most people.? Do you really need their "thread chaser" threading accessory?? Can't you usually just thread with a die if you are doing small diameter threads?
At another level, this sort of machine configured for milling is, in my opinion, good for only very, very light milling.? While not cheap, having a separate lathe and mill is almost always a better solution for machining in the long run.? If wanting to have "hobby size" machines, Sherline is an option, but can be costly.? But there must be opportunities for used ones.
Since you already have a C0 you already have some familiarity with the small "Chinese" lathes.? You have the smallest.? Some view these Chinese imports as somewhat of a "kit" if you want to make improvements to help their accuracy, prevent chatter, and so forth.? You might consider looking for a used C2 size mini-lathe (is that blasphemy on this list?) and a small Chinese mini-mill used.? They have been selling a lot of these for a long time now in many variations and there must be many languishing around not being used.
Finally, if your milling needs are VERY minimal, you could consider rigging up a milling setup on your C0, not with a column, but with an angle and some sort of table with the milling cutter in the headstock.? This has been done with many lathes, such as even the old Atlas (Sears Craftsman) lathes as a "milling attachment."? It is about the worst way to go but can work for a modest amount of small and light machining.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 02:56:55 PM PST, clankennedy2004 via groups.io <clankennedy2004@...> wrote:
Hey Guys, Just calling in tonight to ask your opinion on milling on a Unimat v Making a unimat style mill for the Sieg C0 ! So i own an Axminster C0 Baby lathe but its fairly basic with few accessories and id like to upgrade it so that I can perform milling operations ! But then i saw that a Unimat can be converted into a mill and then I thought hey just buy a unimat instead and I can turn and mill on it ! But Unimat seems to be VERY expensive and many parts are hard to find. Its aimed at hobbyists,watchmakers perhaps and and educational device for young uns and I don't believe they are worthy of the prices being asked unless its a rarity influence ? Are they even made anymore or are they now obsolete ? So what are my options ? I have the small axminster but its also very light duty and quite restricted. IN time I will restore a Zyto lathe thats a little larger but its not there yet ! So hmmm yea :/ what to do ?
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Re: Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
Guys Ive just replayed to my own message to update you all. Ive just been looking on the FleaBay and spotted a Unimat 3 for sale. I had a ganger at her and shes VERY similair to my Axminster Sieg C0 Baby Lathe. Suspiciously so... The Axminster has a guard and some tin swarf shields but the lathe bed and castings are the same even the leadscrew etc appear to be the same ! If this is the case. Can someone confirm please, then what accessories are availablw for the Unimat 3 ? Especially interested in milling functionality or milling head upgrade !
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Unimat V Sieg C0 Advice !
Hey Guys, Just calling in tonight to ask your opinion on milling on a Unimat v Making a unimat style mill for the Sieg C0 ! So i own an Axminster C0 Baby lathe but its fairly basic with few accessories and id like to upgrade it so that I can perform milling operations ! But then i saw that a Unimat can be converted into a mill and then I thought hey just buy a unimat instead and I can turn and mill on it ! But Unimat seems to be VERY expensive and many parts are hard to find. Its aimed at hobbyists,watchmakers perhaps and and educational device for young uns and I don't believe they are worthy of the prices being asked unless its a rarity influence ? Are they even made anymore or are they now obsolete ? So what are my options ? I have the small axminster but its also very light duty and quite restricted. IN time I will restore a Zyto lathe thats a little larger but its not there yet ! So hmmm yea :/ what to do ?
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Bill in OKC too
Carl
OldToolmaker
Unimat Matt