Re: Helping Beginners start....
I hate it when I cut something three times and it is still too
long!
On 11/8/21 14:36, Carl wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Dick:
I tend to do it the other way, cut 3 times and then
measure.
Carl.
Bill,
Forgetting our last measurement is common amongst us older
folks.?
The old adage is ¡°measure twice - cut once¡±
Sometimes I end up measuring 3 times.
Dick
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Hi All
I have never tried to make any knurled parts on my SL because I don't have a slow speed fitment, when knurling on my other lathe I only run about 300 rpm
on the spindle using a clamp type tool.
If the desired result is not achieved 1st time I just screw the clamp another 1/4 turn tighter, usually end up with a decent knurl.
The part diameter and rate of the knurl can be used to calculate the best diameter to start with to achieve a clean knurl every time, I have never done this but
some machinists insist it is the best approach.
Marcus
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Hi Dick:
I tend to do it the other way, cut 3 times and then measure.
Carl.
On 11/08/2021 8:50 AM OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote:
Bill,
Forgetting our last measurement is common amongst us older folks.?
The old adage is ¡°measure twice - cut once¡±
Sometimes I end up measuring 3 times.
Dick
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Hi,
I have a ¡°diamond¡± scissors knurling tool. It works well but does wander towards the headstock end. Either side of the knurling has a ¡°hazy¡± pattern but the section, just longer than the ¡°die¡± width is good. The two arms holding the ¡°dies¡± are a bit slack in terms of their being held.?
I have not got the bottle to extend the length of knurling, the bit that has been produced has been enough so far.
Give it a shot.
James, in damp Dunfermline, Fife, UK
? ? ?I gave up trying to knurl on Unimat - simply not rigid enough (or maybe my limited machining skills).? Yes, the knurl pattern and workpiece diameter must be coordinated.??
On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:02 AM Guy Winton < kooldude@...> wrote:
Wow - I'd love to have one of those!
On November 6, 2021 at 9:22 PM Pete <pmerriam9@...> wrote:
John/Tamra
I believe the German u-boats might have carried the Hommel UWG lathe, seen here:
These were very interesting machine tools.
Peter
On 11/6/2021 10:04 PM, John Pratchios wrote:
Tamra;
It has been said that German U-Boats carried a small metal lathe similar to Unimats.
I remember seeing the American Edelstaal Unimat advertised in the ads in the back of Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated magazines in the very early ¡®60s.when I was a teenager (I¡¯m now 73). The price was $99 at the time. I wanted one very badly back then but $99 was a lot back then.
I did get one in 1971 when my newly wed wife¡¯s Uncle who worked at Sears could get a great discount at Sears who was selling them at that time. I still only ended up with a very basic SL-1000 with a couple of accessories. Since around 2000 I added accessories obtained on eBay and now have most of what I ever wanted, but now I want to convert one to CNC.
Best regards,
John
?
?
-- James Batchelor
This email contains recycled electrons
--
James Batchelor?
Dunfermline, Fife, UK.?
07805 207238
|
Re: Alternative motor for the Unimat SL
That's a roughly 3/4HP motor, which I think a bit much for the Unimat. My South Bend Heavy 10L shipped from the factory with a 3/4HP motor. It's about a thousand pounds of toolroom lathe. I suspect that launching the chuck would be rather traumatic even if it isn't as big as the ones SB uses. :) I'm not sure the ways to prevent that on a SB lathe like mine would work on an SL, but fitting a smaller motor might make it less likely.?
Looks like a well thought-out layout, and I suppose it if does what you want it to do, and you know not to stop it like that, is should work fine for you. Currently, my smallest lathe is a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 mini-lathe, about a hundred pounds worth of lathe. I am trying to work a? deal to get a Unimat SL myself. I know that techniques that work on small lathes will work on a larger one, where the reverse is not necessarily true. Though with that motor, you can probably use carbide tooling, I'm thinking the lathe itself is pretty small, and light weight. That might be a problem with continued use.?
I'd be interested in more of your experience, so please keep posting!
Bill in OKC
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
? ? ?I gave up trying to knurl on Unimat - simply not rigid enough (or maybe my limited machining skills).? Yes, the knurl pattern and workpiece diameter must be coordinated.??
On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:02 AM Guy Winton < kooldude@...> wrote:
Wow - I'd love to have one of those!
On November 6, 2021 at 9:22 PM Pete <pmerriam9@...> wrote:
John/Tamra
I believe the German u-boats might have carried the Hommel UWG lathe, seen here:
These were very interesting machine tools.
Peter
On 11/6/2021 10:04 PM, John Pratchios wrote:
Tamra;
It has been said that German U-Boats carried a small metal lathe similar to Unimats.
I remember seeing the American Edelstaal Unimat advertised in the ads in the back of Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated magazines in the very early ¡®60s.when I was a teenager (I¡¯m now 73). The price was $99 at the time. I wanted one very badly back then but $99 was a lot back then.
I did get one in 1971 when my newly wed wife¡¯s Uncle who worked at Sears could get a great discount at Sears who was selling them at that time. I still only ended up with a very basic SL-1000 with a couple of accessories. Since around 2000 I added accessories obtained on eBay and now have most of what I ever wanted, but now I want to convert one to CNC.
Best regards,
John
?
?
|
Re: Alternative motor for the Unimat SL
Hello David:
I'm interested in the extended bed rods on the headstock end.? Why did you configure the lathe this way?
-Guy-
On November 8, 2021 at 11:21 AM "David via groups.io" <andreadee@...> wrote:
Good evening,
?
This is my first post to the site so apologies if I ramble a little.
First of all, many thanks to all involved in sorting out the recent situation.
?
I am a retired combustion engineer from the steel industry and have developed an interest in the repair of grandfather clock movements.
?
Very quickly it became apparent that some form of lathe was required for this and after much internet searching, during which I found this site, went for the EMCO Unimat SL due to it's compact size.
?
After repairing, repainting and general repairs the original motor was refitted but I found it too noisy and time restrained.
?
The lathe also came with an old 90w sewing machine motor controlled via a foot pedal.
I tried this but it proved problematic due to not being able to control my left foot and the old motor was not powerful enough to achieve higher speeds under load.
?
After research I bought a 230v 550w DC servo motor from Amazon, designed for an industrial sewing machine.
?
It was simplicity itself to fit and is more than adequate for my needs. Very quiet, up to 4500 rpm and reversible at the touch of a button.
?
It comes with sufficient brackets to fit most needs. I inverted the original motor bracket and mounted it through the idler pulley bearing hole. This gives the ability to adjust belt tension as well.?
?
It has a very efficient electrical braking system, sensible as it is designed for a sewing machine and an operator would not want it to run on if they were in difficulty.
?
It will stop, with a thump, from 4500 rpm to zero in the blink of an eye.
?
Unfortunately for a Unimat SL this leaves more than enough momentum in the chuck for it to screw itself off and end up anywhere in the workshop, at speed.
?
This motor braking is simple to turn off in the parameters of the controller, but by default it is set to maximum.
?
The normally foot pedal activated on/off and speed control switch was fitted in an appropriate place for hand operation and the return spring removed.
This switch increases the motor speed in steps from 0 to 100% of the desired speed set in the main motor controller. It does this with a Hall effect sensor with a magnet.
?
There is a hole in the top of the switch and this means it does occasionally get swarf on it and in it. This would eventually cause electrical problems.
?
As part of a normal lathe clean down I inspect and remove any debris to avoid this.
?
Some photographs of the setup have been included for your perusal.
?
I am very happy to provide any information you may require.
?
kindest regards,
David
?
|
Alternative motor for the Unimat SL
Good evening,
?
This is my first post to the site so apologies if I ramble a little.
First of all, many thanks to all involved in sorting out the recent situation.
?
I am a retired combustion engineer from the steel industry and have developed an interest in the repair of grandfather clock movements.
?
Very quickly it became apparent that some form of lathe was required for this and after much internet searching, during which I found this site, went for the EMCO Unimat SL due to it's compact size.
?
After repairing, repainting and general repairs the original motor was refitted but I found it too noisy and time restrained.
?
The lathe also came with an old 90w sewing machine motor controlled via a foot pedal.
I tried this but it proved problematic due to not being able to control my left foot and the old motor was not powerful enough to achieve higher speeds under load.
?
After research I bought a 230v 550w DC servo motor from Amazon, designed for an industrial sewing machine.
?
It was simplicity itself to fit and is more than adequate for my needs. Very quiet, up to 4500 rpm and reversible at the touch of a button.
?
It comes with sufficient brackets to fit most needs. I inverted the original motor bracket and mounted it through the idler pulley bearing hole. This gives the ability to adjust belt tension as well.?
?
It has a very efficient electrical braking system, sensible as it is designed for a sewing machine and an operator would not want it to run on if they were in difficulty.
?
It will stop, with a thump, from 4500 rpm to zero in the blink of an eye.
?
Unfortunately for a Unimat SL this leaves more than enough momentum in the chuck for it to screw itself off and end up anywhere in the workshop, at speed.
?
This motor braking is simple to turn off in the parameters of the controller, but by default it is set to maximum.
?
The normally foot pedal activated on/off and speed control switch was fitted in an appropriate place for hand operation and the return spring removed.
This switch increases the motor speed in steps from 0 to 100% of the desired speed set in the main motor controller. It does this with a Hall effect sensor with a magnet.
?
There is a hole in the top of the switch and this means it does occasionally get swarf on it and in it. This would eventually cause electrical problems.
?
As part of a normal lathe clean down I inspect and remove any debris to avoid this.
?
Some photographs of the setup have been included for your perusal.
?
I am very happy to provide any information you may require.
?
kindest regards,
David
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Here's a simple project that may appeal to some
-Guy-
On November 7, 2021 at 1:15 PM Tamra <tamrabrogdon@...> wrote:
Bill, nice attachment... perhaps we can load this in the files.
I've not once used a center punch.? I've used a nail set many times when we have put up moldings.
Still learning...? I can see the usefulness of a center punch, having a wandering drill bit experience
multiple times in my life, even with a manual pin drill...?
its humbling to miss the obvious.
Dick, what is turning to a shoulder?? Is this applicable in Bill's center punch plans?
Eugene, does any of this have any interest for you?? I know the uni is a cool tool and I do know it can take a while to bond with a lathe... It took me about 4 years to bond with my jet VS wood lathe, but once I did, I have a list of things to create in wood...first things first... is what do you want to make, and then what skills do you need to accomplish that project?
There is a book for unimat projects that you can consider as your basic course of cool things to make.??
Who said this in our group?? Certainly there are tool collectors, people who make tools for the tools, and people who use the lathe for other projects...
I limit my interest to making tools when it helps me make my other projects....
Tamra
?
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Wow - I'd love to have one of those!
On November 6, 2021 at 9:22 PM Pete <pmerriam9@...> wrote:
John/Tamra
I believe the German u-boats might have carried the Hommel UWG lathe, seen here:
These were very interesting machine tools.
Peter
On 11/6/2021 10:04 PM, John Pratchios wrote:
Tamra;
It has been said that German U-Boats carried a small metal lathe similar to Unimats.
I remember seeing the American Edelstaal Unimat advertised in the ads in the back of Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated magazines in the very early ¡®60s.when I was a teenager (I¡¯m now 73). The price was $99 at the time. I wanted one very badly back then but $99 was a lot back then.
I did get one in 1971 when my newly wed wife¡¯s Uncle who worked at Sears could get a great discount at Sears who was selling them at that time. I still only ended up with a very basic SL-1000 with a couple of accessories. Since around 2000 I added accessories obtained on eBay and now have most of what I ever wanted, but now I want to convert one to CNC.
Best regards,
John
?
?
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
I would love to hear more about knurling in general.
At this?point I do not have a knurling tool. It's?a skill that I would like to acquire though. I have searched for a scissor style tool that would fit my Emco Unimat 3. I believe I need a tool with a 1/4" shank but so far no luck.
I have also never understood completely?how the pattern repeats as the work rolls under the tool. It seems like unless you had a circumference that was a perfect division?the pattern would smear.
Hopefully this makes it through - first post, one of the ones that tried before. Loving this beginners?start - exactly what I need,
Eric
On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 7:38 PM Dave Seiter < d.seiter@...> wrote:
I'm still trying to make descent knurls...? I have three scissor types, one being hand held, and a boxfull of different dies, but just when I think I'm going to do a good job, it goes sideways.??
?
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Bill,
Forgetting our last measurement is common amongst us older folks.?
The old adage is ¡°measure twice - cut once¡±
Sometimes I end up measuring 3 times.
Dick
|
Re: Annual $220 Group fee.
Hi Martin, donation sent through Paypal. If you require more please let me know. Many thanks, Mike Szreider.
I will certainly not turn down donations. Last year there was about $35 left over.
If anyone wants to contribute, send to my PayPal account at mdupreno1@...
Thanks everyone!
|
Re: Annual $220 Group fee.
Hi All
Many thanks to Eugene for his very generous donation towards the annual fee, perhaps Martin will confirm sufficient funds have been donated to cover
the cost for the next year.
If this is the case then no further donations are necessary at this time.
Marcus
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Mr. Pete222 has a series of videos on how to grind the tools for lathes. Here is the first one:
??He uses a wooden model to show the correct angles for a right-hand turning tool, which is about the most commonly used lathe tool. Mert Baker used to sell a set of these that he made himself.?
Here's a search on Tool Bit Grinding Mr. Pete222
It includes the four main videos he did, which are set up mostly for the larger hobby lathes by South Bend, Atlas, Logan, and Montgomery Ward. There are also links to BlondiHacks. She has a slightly larger import lathe, similar to the 7x and 9x lathes. You can learn a lot from her videos, too.?
Watch the videos, and look for recommendations from those folks, to give you more info. Or you could cheat, like I did, and take a class. ;) The class I'm in taught us how to grind our own tooling, and they used 3/8" mild steel for practice materials before we did the real high speed steel (HSS). That being the size tooling we were using in the class. You might want 1/4" or 1/8" stock, depending on what you have as tool holders for your lathe. Harbor Freight has sets of 5 small HSS tool blanks. Item 40641, Drill Master mini tool bits.???There is one each 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4" square 2-1/2" bits, a 1/4" round bit, and a 1/16x1/2x4-1/2" parting tool blade. You can use them as cutting tools, parallels for a milling vise, and a couple of the round bars could be used for gauging small dovetails, among other things.?
Mr. Pete222 talks about the South Bend and Atlas lathe books. They are available free as PDF files on the internet. Archive.org has a lot of the old (late 19th & early 20th century) books on machining, and they have helpful info, too. The ones from about 1924 and earlier are out of copyright.?
You will need some sort of bench grinder, or a belt sander can do many of the things a bench grinder can do, and they often make it easier to set angles, and use finer grinding media.?
You can also buy pre-ground tooling in high speed steel from MicroMark.?? For what a couple sets of those cost, you can buy a small grinder, and a bunch of the unground tools from HF.?
HTH!
Bill in OKC
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
I'm still trying to make descent knurls...? I have three scissor types, one being hand held, and a boxfull of different dies, but just when I think I'm going to do a good job, it goes sideways.??
Speaking of dies, about a year ago I found a partial set of dies that are meant to cut parallel lines on a small handle or shaft by pressing the rod through the die.? I'd never seen nor heard of such a tool before.? Came from a Bulova factory, and may have been made in-house.
-Dave
On Sunday, November 7, 2021, 05:53:58 AM PST, OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote:
I think a good beginning project for the Unimat would be to make a center punch.
The skills learned would involve:
(1) straight parallel turning.
(2) taper turning.
(3) turning to a shoulder.
(4) knurling (if you have a scissor knurling tool.
(5) facing.
These are all basic operations and when taken in small steps are easier to master.
Dick
|
Re: How to contact Group Owner?
Kevin Groenke @ PersonMakeObject
Info for members having trouble posting:
A common reason for inability to post to groups is attempting to send from a different email account than they are registered under.? If your messages aren't posting, confirm the email address you're sending from.
Kevin Groenke
human of planet earth
Hi Keith
Ian Adam is an Unmoderated listed member from 2009 so there should not be any problem with him uploading messages.
Marcus
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Hi Gang:
Don't forget heat treating, a soft steel center punch won't stay sharp long.
It might be easier to grind something that is hard allready.
Carl.
On 11/07/2021 8:53 AM OldToolmaker via groups.io <old_toolmaker@...> wrote:
I think a good beginning project for the Unimat would be to make a center punch.
The skills learned would involve:
(1) straight parallel turning.
(2) taper turning.
(3) turning to a shoulder.
(4) knurling (if you have a scissor knurling tool.
(5) facing.
These are all basic operations and when taken in small steps are easier to master.
Dick
|
Re: How to contact Group Owner?
Hi Keith
Ian Adam is an Unmoderated listed member from 2009 so there should not be any problem with him uploading messages.
Marcus
|
Re: Helping Beginners start....
Hi Gang:
One of my prised tools is a center punch. I was having trouble transfering holes on location. I decided the small Starrett punches just didn't let me punch deep enough. So I made a punch from 3/4" tool steel 6 inches long. With it I can make a 1/4" crater in steel that never misses.?
Carl.
On 11/07/2021 1:15 PM Tamra <tamrabrogdon@...> wrote:
Bill, nice attachment... perhaps we can load this in the files.
I've not once used a center punch.? I've used a nail set many times when we have put up moldings.
Still learning...? I can see the usefulness of a center punch, having a wandering drill bit experience
multiple times in my life, even with a manual pin drill...?
its humbling to miss the obvious.
Dick, what is turning to a shoulder?? Is this applicable in Bill's center punch plans?
Eugene, does any of this have any interest for you?? I know the uni is a cool tool and I do know it can take a while to bond with a lathe... It took me about 4 years to bond with my jet VS wood lathe, but once I did, I have a list of things to create in wood...first things first... is what do you want to make, and then what skills do you need to accomplish that project?
There is a book for unimat projects that you can consider as your basic course of cool things to make.??
Who said this in our group?? Certainly there are tool collectors, people who make tools for the tools, and people who use the lathe for other projects...
I limit my interest to making tools when it helps me make my other projects....
Tamra
|
Carl
James Batchelor
Bill in OKC too
OldToolmaker