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Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Resettable Handwheels/Dials

 

When I replied in the original message, I changed one word in the Subject and thought it would do just that. Turns out it started a new one without the original content. There is always something to learn about these forums. So, what I am going to try do is copy My original content to this reply just in case someone reads only this one and does not know how it was started.?
?
I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past. It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the friction type. ?A search through the Files section did not yield much information as to how to make them. ?An article in ME Workshop (Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set would be greatly appreciated. ?Thank You, Frank?
Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Resettable Handwheels/Dials

 

Elliot, Thank You for the link. I just finished viewing all four of his videos. The sawblade indexer and number stamping jig are very clever and will work fine for this kind of project. The Logan and some of my machines use an insert piece for the main alignment line and also provide a thrust bearing surface. Unfortunately, the little Unimat uses the casting surface and is machined to a small diameter that mates with the dial.? Maybe an insert could be made with a larger face and then be fitted into the cross-feed casting. A resettable sleeve could then be made to fit over the existing dial to match the insert like the videos show. I am not sure about the tailstock and leadscrew. The cross feed would be the most useful. Also, Dick used the word Resettable (which seems more appropriate instead of Adjustable). I inserted it into this reply title and hope it works. It would still be nice and convenient to purchase one already made, but not necessary.? Frank? ? ?
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Wow, that is just incredible. Such precision, and a great video production.
?
I¡¯m going to have to watch the rest of his videos now!
?
Thanks Elliot.
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Chris, who has the youtube channel "Clickspring," has a series of videos
on making a clock in the home machine shop. Here's the one that includes
making the hands.


On 1/5/25 12:01 PM, Peter Brooks via groups.io wrote:
Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those
used to making tiny things!
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock.
The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement
aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are
bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping
slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t
visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back
of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps
the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just
try to drill out the holes.
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)?
Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it
possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on
the new shaft now.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net

"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials

 

Lyle Peterson (mrpete222, "Your Youtube Shop Teacher") has a series of
four videos on making graduated dials for a lathe. He makes a set for
his Logan lathe, but the process will be the same for any lathe. All
that is necessary is to adjust the size for the Unimat.
Here's a link to the playlist that has the videos: Shop Tips #177-180



On 1/5/25 7:44 PM, Frank In PA via groups.io wrote:
I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable
handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some
posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past.
It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial
indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not
interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer
adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the
equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock
manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the
friction type.? A search through the Files section did not yield much
information as to how to make them.? An article in ME Workshop
(Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of
large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone
has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set
would be greatly appreciated.? Thank You
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net

"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Thanks all for the good advice. I¡¯ll try soldering up the split first, planning to introduce a little solder into the hole at the same time, and then file it with a very fine rat tailed file. Nothing to lose.

(Harking back to previous discussions part of the problem is seeing what on earth is going on!)
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

For the cost and trouble of getting new hands and buying broaches if you don't have them, maybe either give up or get a different movement.
Re: Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials

 

Hello, Frank!
I am currently mounting a DRO on the Z axis and it is not easy to do.
I am with you on making a set of resettable dials on the other two axis. In fact I might abandon the DRO entirely if I am successful with the resettable dials. I also think larger dials are a plus. A few years ago I bought a set of satin chrome re- setable dials from Little Machine Shop for my Mini Lathe.
They are first class and might be just the thing we are looking for. I will look into it and keep you posted. I still have one new one that I can use to start.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
Unimat Sl/DB Lathe Adjustable Handwheels/Dials

 

I am interested in either purchasing or making a set of adjustable handwheels for a DB 200 lathe. in searching the forum there were some posts mentioning that there were some being made and sold in the past. It does not seem like anyone is making or selling them presently. A dial indicator is very accurate and have used them. At this point I am not interested in installing and using a DRO, maybe in the future. I prefer adjustable dials because they are common and convenient. All of the equipment in my shop have dials that use a set screw to move and lock manually. There is one exception, a small bench mill that has the friction type.? A search through the Files section did not yield much information as to how to make them.? An article in ME Workshop (Feb.2006) has plans for a set to use on a Unimat 3. They are kind of large 1/3/4" in diameter but may work on a DB. Just curious if anyone has made and used them. Also, any information or plans to make a set would be greatly appreciated.? Thank You
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

There are several suppliers of clock parts - Timesavers is one that I use regularly but there are others as well. ?You should be able to get a new set of hands there (Klockit is another one I have used). ?In order to open holes you use a broach to slowly open the hole and then friction fit it on. ?I have several sets of broaches but in a pinch you should be able to make one. ?There are special punches for closing holes that clock makers use for this purpose and if the hole is just slightly too large then this is how I would correct the problem. ?If I was trying to salvage the existing hand with the split I would likely solder a piece of steel or brass to the back of the hand, drill it out and then broach it to the size needed to friction fit it. ?If the hand has a pipe that is a different matter - I have never made a new pipe so I can¡¯t help there.

Good Luck
Dan L.


On Jan 5, 2025, at 10:01?AM, paul b via groups.io <pointfivebsw@...> wrote:

?
What are the hands made from? Can the split be soldered? Or can you solder a piece of metal (e.g. brass) to the rear, file to suit and drill?

As for opening up small holes 5 sided tapered broaches are the best thing to use, taking out a tiny amount at a time. Drilling undersize and opening out with a broach is a safe way of getting a decent fit, whether that be running or interference.

Reducing hole size has been mentioned, finding a ball bearing that sits on the hole then tapping with a hammer would be my choice for something that small, that way you're spreading the metal precisely where needed.

Paul B.

On Sunday 5 January 2025 at 17:01:20 GMT, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:


Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
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?
<IMG_3015.jpeg>
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Can you solder or braze the crack?? Car guys do "dimple dies" to thicker and heavier metals. Maybe something like that would help? You? could solder/braze the hole to fill it and repair the crack, then form a correctly sized hole and dimple. Might take more than a bit of experimentation... Pretty sure I couldn't get it right the first few time I tried.

Might also try pressing in a hub, and drilling that. Not at all sure which would be easiest or fastest. If I trip over any of the horology books I have, I'll see if they have any info. You might want to look at old horology books at archive.org, too, probably faster than waiting on me to get the lead out...

Tripped over the book while cleaning around the pile that my desk is hiding under. Has a bit on making and using a tool for prying hands off a watch, but nothing about making or fitting hands that I could find. And then I lost my phone for a few hours.

Bill in OKC?

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.



On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 11:01:19 AM CST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:


Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Thanks Paul - the hands are ferrous I think, they stick to a magnet.
?
Solder is a great idea, in fact if that works it may be worth cutting a split in the other hand and expanding and ¡®fixing¡¯ it in the same way.
?
Failing that I think I¡¯ll try filing off the flange and soldering on a piece of thin brass as you suggest.
?
I knew folks would have some good ideas !
?
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

What are the hands made from? Can the split be soldered? Or can you solder a piece of metal (e.g. brass) to the rear, file to suit and drill?

As for opening up small holes 5 sided tapered broaches are the best thing to use, taking out a tiny amount at a time. Drilling undersize and opening out with a broach is a safe way of getting a decent fit, whether that be running or interference.

Reducing hole size has been mentioned, finding a ball bearing that sits on the hole then tapping with a hammer would be my choice for something that small, that way you're spreading the metal precisely where needed.

Paul B.

On Sunday 5 January 2025 at 17:01:20 GMT, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:


Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Thanks for the ideas¡­ it¡¯s actually split but it¡¯s worth a go, nothing to lose I guess!
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Correction to my post of a moment ago..? The word "busying" should of course be "bushing."

Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer

On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:10:24 AM PST, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:


I think you might be able to reduce the hole size on the minute hand by pounding on the piece in that area to "flatten" it a little more.? The material has to go someplace, and the hole should close a bit.? I would use something with a rounded end, so material is focused to move only to the interior and not the exterior of the piece.? And pound on the back side where it won't show.? I've read about this trick to make a hole smaller from time to time, but don't think I've done it myself.

Another possibility would be to make a very thin busying to enlarge the shaft.? Even the smallest bushing you could make would probably now make the shaft too large and you would then have to open the hole a little.? If so, I would use a very small round file and some patience and trial and error.

Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer

On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:01:21 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:


Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
Re: Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

I think you might be able to reduce the hole size on the minute hand by pounding on the piece in that area to "flatten" it a little more.? The material has to go someplace, and the hole should close a bit.? I would use something with a rounded end, so material is focused to move only to the interior and not the exterior of the piece.? And pound on the back side where it won't show.? I've read about this trick to make a hole smaller from time to time, but don't think I've done it myself.

Another possibility would be to make a very thin busying to enlarge the shaft.? Even the smallest bushing you could make would probably now make the shaft too large and you would then have to open the hole a little.? If so, I would use a very small round file and some patience and trial and error.

Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer

On Sunday, January 5, 2025 at 09:01:21 AM PST, Peter Brooks via groups.io <peter@...> wrote:


Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
Tiny clock hands - advice please

 

Happy New Year all ! ?I¡¯m after advice from horologists, or just those used to making tiny things!
?
I¡¯m fitting a small quartz clock movement into a small, broken clock. The face is nice, but the available hands that fit the quartz movement aren¡¯t, so I wanted to use the original metal hands. The new shafts are bigger though - 1.5mm > 2mm (minute hand), 2.6mm > 3.5mm (hour hand).
?
I tried to open the minute hand hole up using a spike / bradawl, tapping slowly and very gently. Of course eventually I split it. What isn¡¯t visible from the photo is a slight bush or flange effect around the back of the holes, presumably the holes have been pressed out and this helps the hand stay straight and true on the shaft. That¡¯s why I didn¡¯t just try to drill out the holes.
?
Anyway, any advice on how to make new hands (and from what material)? Even gripping them for filing etc. would seem ?very tricky¡­ Or is it possible to rescue the old ones? The minute hand just slops around on the new shaft now.
?
?
Re: Unimat 3 Mill/Drill Attachment Question

 

I agree totally with your thoughts!
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
Re: Cheap Power Feed Unit

 

On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 01:23 PM, Carl wrote:
Getting my finger stuck in the gears really hurt
That's the first thing I thought of when I saw this.
Re: Cheap Power Feed Unit

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

My MOST important lesson from the Erector Set Motor was "In running pinch points". Getting my finger stuck in the gears really hurt, but I didn't loose anything.

Carl.

On 1/1/2025 3:58 AM, Gerald Feldman wrote:

The Erector motor can also be easily geared to various speeds and shifted into neutral or reverse.? The Erector was my favorite toy when I was a kid back in the 1950s and learned a lot from it.? I still have my original two sets (an 8-1/2 and later a 12-1/2) with all the parts, as well as a couple of others that I rescued.

?

Jerry F.? ?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Hutnick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2024 9:11 AM
To: Mike Gidley; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unimat] Cheap Power Feed Unit

?

For something that you can actually buy, try this Ebay item:

226166478327

It is $7.69 + $3.00 shipping.

We don't need to analyze torque.? If it works, fine.? If it breaks, get something else.

On Ebay, an erector set motor is $12 - 30, depending on condition.

I see a benefit to the Erector motor.? If you are not using it, just pop off the belt.

But you need to create a pulley with something like a manual handwheel.

?
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