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Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Ron, thank you for the attachment, for SB How to run a lathe, as this keeps me from trying to find my copy.?
I know where my machinist handbook is though.? I will review these items that everyone has suggested. The lathe is an EMCO 7x10 lathe, and it isn't that heavy, so I think I will likely be able to get it to a shelf over the weekend.? I don't think this is a Emco 5 Compact lathe, but it is that same color of yellow.? I do have a 4 jaw chuck...on the EMCO that is much larger then my Unimat... My piece of steel is 1-7/8" diameter and likely 3" at the present time, but the plug doesn't need a lot of depth, and I will let dear husband determine what amount is parted off, and may call my local welder and ask how much he wants left.? The lid is slightly domed, so I was thinking of using air dry clay to remove my guess of the slope; it is easy to visualize putting a straight edge on the inside of the lid, but having something that I can look at while machining the diameter seems like a good way for me to remove the guess work.?? The part will remain 1-7/8 diameter so it doesn't go through the lid once pressure is applied, but the hole that needs to be plugged measures 1.50" with calipers, so I am hopeful to turn to 1.48" and see if it fits.? I want it tight, but can be removed for the welder's ease.? Tamra |
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
I took a class in machining, but I learned how to dial in a 4-jaw chuck from Little Machine Shop. I put a 5" 4-jaw my my 7x10 mini-lathe shortly after I got it. A bit too heavy, but very useful.? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 12:07:31 PM CDT, Ron K via groups.io <ron.kellis@...> wrote:
Hi, two comments. Finish. Since you can grind HHS, just grind one to the specifications in the classic Southbend How To Run a Lathe A small tool will work fine. 4 jaw chuck. You may already know, but having two keys is a big help. I'm lucky. My Logan 4 jaw has 1/4" keyholes so I can use two screwdriver handles with 1/4" socket ends. I'm too new with the Unimat to know, but It may be possible to use a handled hex driver with a Robinson bit. Many YouTube tutorials, comes to mind.? I like to read when I can, here is a technique I use from The copy I printed out years ago is now oil paper LOL. Ron |
Re: Bending mild steel strip
Some caution about drilling holes before bending.? Due to how the metal stretches at bends, it can be a bit tricky to place the holes on a flat pattern, so they end up right after the bending.? Most sheet metal shops want to see a dimensioned drawing of the finished part and they figure out the subtleties.? So, if you can, you might be better off drilling holes after bending so you can be sure where the holes will be. If this is causing too much grief, it is little more than a snack for a sheet metal shop with the equipment they usually have.? But you would have to pay something.? I know that these machining groups are "do it yourself" and "find a way" focused, which is great.? But sometimes for the occasional job outside the "work envelope" of our equipment, it can pay to farm it out. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 02:40:27 PM PDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
This is the one I bought when I was remounting my wifes wheelchair lift in the new van:? I'd managed to FUBAR a couple brackets, using the torch & vise. Bought that bender and cranked out all 4 of the new brackets in less than an hour. They have similar machines in Europe,? and there are several youtube videos about scratch-building a version of the bender.? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 01:35:57 PM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
If you are in USA, Harbor Freight sells some inexpensive tools to bend iron and steel. Check them out and maybe one of them will help you.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Carl <carl.blum@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 2:31 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; peter@... <peter@...> Subject: Re: [Unimat] Bending mild steel strip ?
Hi Peter:
?
Assumption, all the same size? And you have a vise? Are the bends in the same direction? Or opposite?
Even a propane torch can help. On the 30 deg bend, a larger radius would help.?
Cut a board as a template for the bends. Drill any holes before? bending.?
?
Carl.?
|
Re: Bending mild steel strip
This is the one I bought when I was remounting my wifes wheelchair lift in the new van:? I'd managed to FUBAR a couple brackets, using the torch & vise. Bought that bender and cranked out all 4 of the new brackets in less than an hour. They have similar machines in Europe,? and there are several youtube videos about scratch-building a version of the bender.? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 01:35:57 PM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:
If you are in USA, Harbor Freight sells some inexpensive tools to bend iron and steel. Check them out and maybe one of them will help you.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Carl <carl.blum@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 2:31 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; peter@... <peter@...> Subject: Re: [Unimat] Bending mild steel strip ?
Hi Peter:
?
Assumption, all the same size? And you have a vise? Are the bends in the same direction? Or opposite?
Even a propane torch can help. On the 30 deg bend, a larger radius would help.?
Cut a board as a template for the bends. Drill any holes before? bending.?
?
Carl.?
|
Re: Bending mild steel strip
Can also use a fire pit or BBQ grill, and a shop vac to increase airflow. Though a propane or butane torch with a good pair of pliers and a 2lb/1 KG ball peen or cross-peen hammer and an "anvil-shaped object" (ASO) are relatively inexpensive. There are also several designs of brake-drum forge available on the internet. They aren't unimats either, but sure can expand your options. Get some high-carbon tool steel and you could forge your own tooling. The Industrial Revolution was built with such tooling.? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 01:31:28 PM CDT, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
Hi Peter:
?
Assumption, all the same size? And you have a vise? Are the bends in the same direction? Or opposite?
Even a propane torch can help. On the 30 deg bend, a larger radius would help.?
Cut a board as a template for the bends. Drill any holes before? bending.?
?
Carl.?
|
Re: Bending mild steel strip
If you need them bent in the same location, but opposite directions, use a jig - even if it's just made from scraps.? A little forward planning and careful drilling would let you bolt/screw the jig parts together, then just flip them around to make the bend in the opposite direction.
|
Re: Bending mild steel strip
Andrei
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
If you are in USA, Harbor Freight sells some inexpensive tools to bend iron and steel. Check them out and maybe one of them will help you.?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Carl <carl.blum@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 2:31 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; peter@... <peter@...> Subject: Re: [Unimat] Bending mild steel strip ?
Hi Peter:
?
Assumption, all the same size? And you have a vise? Are the bends in the same direction? Or opposite?
Even a propane torch can help. On the 30 deg bend, a larger radius would help.?
Cut a board as a template for the bends. Drill any holes before? bending.?
?
Carl.?
|
Re: Bending mild steel strip
Hi Peter:
?
Assumption, all the same size? And you have a vise? Are the bends in the same direction? Or opposite?
Even a propane torch can help. On the 30 deg bend, a larger radius would help.?
Cut a board as a template for the bends. Drill any holes before? bending.?
?
Carl.?
|
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Tamra;
Some months ago I mounted a 1.5¡±galvanized pipe cap in my SL1000 to turn it down into cylindrical shape from its curved shape. Using standard Unit Bits, I was able to accomplish the task with shallow cuts and patience. If you attempt too aggressive a cut, the motor will slow and remind you that a Unimat is NOT a West Bend 6¡± lathe! Best regards, John Pratchios |
Bending mild steel strip
Apologies as this isn¡¯t Unimat (or even lathe) related - I¡¯d appreciate some advice from those who will know.
I have to make three identical ¡®legs¡¯ to support a metal shallow bowl water feature. Each leg will have two bends, and the material is 3/4¡± x 1/8¡± mild steel (18mm x 3mm approx for the metrically minded). One bend is an easy angle, and I think I can do it in a metalworking vice. Envisaging what will happen I will clamp some pieces of wood around the free part as support so that the bend happens where it is meant to. The other bend is trickier, as it is an acute 30 degrees¡ Is this overly ambitious? ?I realise that the metal will fracture if - literally - pushed too far. I don¡¯t have any equipment to heat the metal, so that is out. A couple of ideas spring to mind as to how I might attempt it - a) clamping it with upright pieces of wood or metal in the vice (to give the clearance), or b) around a pin on a board (akin to bending steamed wood for furniture). In both cases proper supporting pieces of wood would be required to keep the bend in the right place. Advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Hi, two comments.
Finish. Since you can grind HHS, just grind one to the specifications in the classic Southbend How To Run a Lathe A small tool will work fine. 4 jaw chuck. You may already know, but having two keys is a big help. I'm lucky. My Logan 4 jaw has 1/4" keyholes so I can use two screwdriver handles with 1/4" socket ends. I'm too new with the Unimat to know, but It may be possible to use a handled hex driver with a Robinson bit. Many YouTube tutorials, comes to mind.? I like to read when I can, here is a technique I use from The copy I printed out years ago is now oil paper LOL. Ron |
Re: UNIMAT 3 Watchmaker precision package
Hi Tamra,
?
It's always good to read, and manuals often need to be reread (many times) ...?
?
As to why I think the Ebay item was not identical to the EMCO watchmaker precision package's tiny toolrest: It's not about the idea and function because these are similar. However, the item on Ebay looked a little different, with the most important difference being the way the two items are attached.? For the Emco one legt me share with you 6 photographs that will demonstrate the minute differences and the way it is fastened directly onto the bed. That is not at ll the case with the Ebay item.
?
?
|
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
A 3-jaaw or 4-jaw will make no difference in accuracy for this part.? It is having its diameter turned down.? It is not necessary to have the stock size diameter running completely true. A 4-jaw is needed (or a collet) if you having something already machined to some dimension and need to center it accurately.? Or, if you take the part out of the chuck and then put it back in. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 10:26:31 PM PDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
Tamra, if you have a 4-jaw independent jaw chuck, that would be better for accuracy. Takes a bit longer to dial it in, but if you're patient you can get the very best accuracy your lathe is capable of.? You may not need 1.5000" on your part, but you can get it if you want. ? very good 3-jaw chuck can have .003" or more of runout. The one on my "good" lathe was out by .014". So I bought it a 4-jaw independent jaw chuck. For most parts, most people can get by with +/- .005", but as this is getting welded into a pressure vessel you may want a closer tolerance. After I'd practiced a bit, I could get +/- .0005 fairly easily, and .0001"? with a little extra care. You won't do that well at first, and it will take longer to do than with a 3-jaw. But if you use the 4-jaw often, you'll get better quickly. Likely faster than I did... ?? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 11:45:54 PM CDT, Tamra <tamrabrogdon@...> wrote:
I think the larger lathe may be more appropriate... will see... as I can't remember the accessories - if there are any at all on that lathe.? Son #1 bought that for me at an auction very inexpensively.? The only reason to not use the larger lathe, is I don't know if I can move it, or I don't know if I have a 3 jaw chuck on it or not.? ? I think it is on a lower shelf though, so I could move it to a cart if I had to.? ? I got distracted with the brass bed project and forgot to have him move that lathe for me...? The only reason to machine this piece of steel on a desktop lathe, is because I can pick one of these up.? It isn't the lathe that is heavy, I think it is the motor.... This might be the time to look at my Machinist's Handbook... I do have one. Tamra |
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Tamra, if you have a 4-jaw independent jaw chuck, that would be better for accuracy. Takes a bit longer to dial it in, but if you're patient you can get the very best accuracy your lathe is capable of.? You may not need 1.5000" on your part, but you can get it if you want. ? very good 3-jaw chuck can have .003" or more of runout. The one on my "good" lathe was out by .014". So I bought it a 4-jaw independent jaw chuck. For most parts, most people can get by with +/- .005", but as this is getting welded into a pressure vessel you may want a closer tolerance. After I'd practiced a bit, I could get +/- .0005 fairly easily, and .0001"? with a little extra care. You won't do that well at first, and it will take longer to do than with a 3-jaw. But if you use the 4-jaw often, you'll get better quickly. Likely faster than I did... ?? Bill in OKC? William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better. Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 11:45:54 PM CDT, Tamra <tamrabrogdon@...> wrote:
I think the larger lathe may be more appropriate... will see... as I can't remember the accessories - if there are any at all on that lathe.? Son #1 bought that for me at an auction very inexpensively.? The only reason to not use the larger lathe, is I don't know if I can move it, or I don't know if I have a 3 jaw chuck on it or not.? ? I think it is on a lower shelf though, so I could move it to a cart if I had to.? ? I got distracted with the brass bed project and forgot to have him move that lathe for me...? The only reason to machine this piece of steel on a desktop lathe, is because I can pick one of these up.? It isn't the lathe that is heavy, I think it is the motor.... This might be the time to look at my Machinist's Handbook... I do have one. Tamra |
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
I think the larger lathe may be more appropriate... will see... as I can't remember the accessories - if there are any at all on that lathe.? Son #1 bought that for me at an auction very inexpensively.? The only reason to not use the larger lathe, is I don't know if I can move it, or I don't know if I have a 3 jaw chuck on it or not.? ? I think it is on a lower shelf though, so I could move it to a cart if I had to.? ? I got distracted with the brass bed project and forgot to have him move that lathe for me...?
The only reason to machine this piece of steel on a desktop lathe, is because I can pick one of these up.? It isn't the lathe that is heavy, I think it is the motor.... This might be the time to look at my Machinist's Handbook... I do have one. Tamra |
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Hi Gang:
Backwards the jaws go in 3-2-1.
Carl.
|
Re: Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
You didn't specify the length of the part, but it sounds short and stubby so you should be able to hold in reversed jaws. Note:? Jaws must be reinstalled in the correct order in a scroll type chuck.? So, keep track of what jaw came from which slot. I would use a standard HSS tool bit.? Some try to use carbide bits, especially inserts in holders.? However, carbide bits tend to work better when more horsepower and rigidity is available.? And I always try to have bits very sharp.? Sharper than probably most do.? I keep a diamond hand hone at the ready to touch up the cutting edge after grinding it or touching it up while the bit is mounted in the tool post if it dulls a bit. You want a slowish speed and lightish cuts.? If you push things a little too much, the behavior of the machine will usually tell you. If you want a little extra work holding security (although you may not need it) you can center drill the workpiece and then run a ball bearing center (a.k.a.live center or rolling center depending on your location and/or lexicon politics) up against the part. Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, June 26, 2024 at 04:14:33 PM PDT, Tamra <tamrabrogdon@...> wrote:
Ok, I'm going to machine a plug for our paint pot that is being converted to a pressure pot for wood / resin wood turnings for dear husband.? (He has been watching neighbor (in Canada) Jim Sprague on YouTube and has discovered a new calling for his lathe.)?? The diameter of the 1018 steel is 1-7/8" and I need to bring it to something close to 1.5" diameter and will get it welded to the lid.?? It doesn't have to be pretty, but would be nice if it is pretty, so I'm open to lots of suggestions for tool bits to use.? I have standard tool bits but don't usually use them, as I machine brass & wood on the lathe, and I grind my own 1/8" (generally Interstate) tool bits.? ? The reason I was reading the unimat machining booklet was to figure out if I could mount this on my lathe - the instructions to reverse the jaws and in xx order... or if I needed to get the EMCO bigger machine off the shelf, which I don't think I can move myself without a cart on wheels... well, I can likely move it, but not likely want to carry it, as I'm fond of my feet.? Dear Son is on his way over right now.? Off to the workshop... for fun time! Tamra |
Machining 1018 Solid Steel Bar
Ok, I'm going to machine a plug for our paint pot that is being converted to a pressure pot for wood / resin wood turnings for dear husband.? (He has been watching neighbor (in Canada) Jim Sprague on YouTube and has discovered a new calling for his lathe.)??
The diameter of the 1018 steel is 1-7/8" and I need to bring it to something close to 1.5" diameter and will get it welded to the lid.?? It doesn't have to be pretty, but would be nice if it is pretty, so I'm open to lots of suggestions for tool bits to use.? I have standard tool bits but don't usually use them, as I machine brass & wood on the lathe, and I grind my own 1/8" (generally Interstate) tool bits.? ? The reason I was reading the unimat machining booklet was to figure out if I could mount this on my lathe - the instructions to reverse the jaws and in xx order... or if I needed to get the EMCO bigger machine off the shelf, which I don't think I can move myself without a cart on wheels... well, I can likely move it, but not likely want to carry it, as I'm fond of my feet.? Dear Son is on his way over right now.? Off to the workshop... for fun time! Tamra |
Re: UNIMAT 3 Watchmaker precision package
From Herman
>>>BTW - Ebay currently has a??that is not the UNIMAT 3 accessory but one that looks a lot like it, except for the base which in the case of the UNIMAT 3 accessory is mounted directly on the bed, whereas this one has a post that is height adjustable. Seller is based in MN, USA and selling price is US$ 80. <<< Herman, why do you think it isn't the same thing?? I just looked at it again and it is sold now. I started reading the Unimat book the yesterday.... it does mention the 1 full turn of the cross slide= a mm...?? I should have read this much earlier in my learning - Tamra |
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