Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
"I've plugged pickles in to 120v and 220v. Try it!"
Carl, don't be ridiculous...? A pickle wouldn't fit in the socket.
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Re: Dead Center stuck in tailstock ram.
Grip the center with vise grip pliers. Tap the pliers with small hammer. Center should pop right out. ?You can also use small flairing tool to grip center for same process.?
Good luck.
--
Steve Jaynes
Unimat owner/collector since 1995, all generations.
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Re: Dead Center stuck in tailstock ram.
If so, you might be able to fit a metric grease zerk to it, and pump the tailstock ram full of grease, which would push the center out... Maybe. ;) It could get messy, and possibly shoot it and grease across the room.
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Fw: [Unimat] Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Steve pointed out to me that not all of my messages are going to the group, and he thought at least this one should, so here it is!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: William R. Meyers <wmrmeyers@...> To: Steve Johnson <steve@...> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:23:25 AM CDT Subject: Re: [Unimat] Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
I have been known to make mistakes about what the OP was looking for, so I went back and looked at the original message. He has a chuck with a pre-drilled hole. I'm guessing that he didn't drill it, so doesn't have the drill. Besides, depending on the the drill, the setup, and how tight the chuck was tightened can all affect how big a hole a drill bit drills when it's used, so getting a accurate hole would be a crap-shoot. Sets of adjustable reamers are relatively cheap, so OP could ream the hole to size, Still be better done in his lathe, which he says is not all together right now...
Maybe we need to find someone near him who can help him out! :)?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:06:42 AM CDT, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote:
Good point Bill.
Still, providing the M12 hole had never been tapped, use the original bit for centering and bore with the new tap drill size.? On Apr 20, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Bill in OKC too via < wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
Are you sure about that? The tap drill for an M12x1 tap is 11mm. That is what I used making the collet chuck and faceplate that I worked on. Both fit the Unimat SL spindle. See the Metric fine thread chart here:??I am a bit math-challenged, but that should make the minor diameter 11mm or perhaps a bit more. If it were M12x1.5 or M12x1.75 you'd be closer, but probably not enough to get good concentricity.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 09:54:10 AM CDT, Elliot Nesterman < elliot@...> wrote:
Without a milling machine or a lathe, achieving perfect axial alignment will be difficult if not impossible. You can get close, or even perfect if you're lucky, with a drill press. Drilling by hand you will ruin the collet chuck. Drills are not precision instruments. They like to wander, even once they're in the bore. Guiding a drill by hand to achieve perfect alignment of any sort is not possible, at least not to machinists' tolerances. The minor diameter of M12 is 10.106mm. This is the size of pin you would need to set the alignment with the drill's quill. A 10mm pin will still allow 0.1mm, 0.004", of slop. And it's likely that the minor diameter of the chuck is a bit larger, to ease threading on a spindle nose. Also, the drill bit should be as short as possible. Drills flex. Using a screw machine bit (stubby bit) will help. And, of course, you'll need to find a way to fixture the collet so it is immobile once it's aligned and on the drill press table. The usual kind of drill press vice does not hold round objects in a vertical orientation very well. Still, as you can find M14x1 collet chucks on Amazon fairly inexpensively, you won't be out much if the enlarging doesn't work out. Best of luck. -- Elliot Nesterman elliot@...www.ajoure.net "The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
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Re: Rustoleum Green Hammered
Black as night, or black as coal?
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Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Hi
Gang:
The
best option would be to find a lathe that you can use.
A hand
drill option would be to make a step reamer. It would have a
guide bushing the diameter of the existing hole followed by
the M14 tap drill diameter ( M14 - pitch 1 = ?13 ).
Then
try to tap it square. It would really be best to find a lathe.
Carl.
On 4/20/2023 11:06 AM, Steve Johnson
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Good point Bill.
Still, providing the M12 hole had never been tapped,
use the original bit for centering and bore with the new tap
drill size.?
On Apr 20, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Bill in OKC too
via < wmrmeyers@...>
wrote:
Are you
sure about that? The tap drill for an M12x1 tap is
11mm. That is what I used making the collet chuck
and faceplate that I worked on. Both fit the
Unimat SL spindle. See the Metric fine thread
chart here:??I
am a bit math-challenged, but that should make the
minor diameter 11mm or perhaps a bit more. If it
were M12x1.5 or M12x1.75 you'd be closer, but
probably not enough to get good concentricity.?
Bill in
OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms
to live by:
Good judgement comes from
experience. Experience comes from bad
judgement.?
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics
doesn't care about your schedule.
The only
reason I know anything is because I've
done it wrong enough times to START to
know better.
Expect
in one hand, expectorate in the
other. See which one gets full
first.
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at
09:54:10 AM CDT, Elliot Nesterman < elliot@...>
wrote:
Without a milling machine or a
lathe, achieving perfect axial alignment
will be difficult if not impossible. You can
get close, or even perfect
if you're lucky, with a drill press. Drilling
by hand you will ruin the
collet chuck.
Drills are not precision instruments. They
like to wander, even once
they're in the bore. Guiding a drill by hand
to achieve perfect
alignment of any sort is not possible, at
least not to machinists'
tolerances.
The minor diameter of M12 is 10.106mm. This is
the size of pin you would
need to set the alignment with the drill's
quill. A 10mm pin will still
allow 0.1mm, 0.004", of slop. And it's likely
that the minor diameter of
the chuck is a bit larger, to ease threading
on a spindle nose.
Also, the drill bit should be as short as
possible. Drills flex. Using a
screw machine bit (stubby bit) will help.
And, of course, you'll need to find a way to
fixture the collet so it is
immobile once it's aligned and on the drill
press table. The usual kind
of drill press vice does not hold round
objects in a vertical
orientation very well.
Still, as you can find M14x1 collet chucks on
Amazon fairly
inexpensively, you won't be out much if the
enlarging doesn't work out.
Best of luck.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed
character."
|
Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Good point Bill.
Still, providing the M12 hole had never been tapped, use the original bit for centering and bore with the new tap drill size.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 20, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Bill in OKC too via < wmrmeyers@...> wrote:
Are you sure about that? The tap drill for an M12x1 tap is 11mm. That is what I used making the collet chuck and faceplate that I worked on. Both fit the Unimat SL spindle. See the Metric fine thread chart here:??I am a bit math-challenged, but that should make the minor diameter 11mm or perhaps a bit more. If it were M12x1.5 or M12x1.75 you'd be closer, but probably not enough to get good concentricity.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 09:54:10 AM CDT, Elliot Nesterman < elliot@...> wrote:
Without a milling machine or a lathe, achieving perfect axial alignment will be difficult if not impossible. You can get close, or even perfect if you're lucky, with a drill press. Drilling by hand you will ruin the collet chuck. Drills are not precision instruments. They like to wander, even once they're in the bore. Guiding a drill by hand to achieve perfect alignment of any sort is not possible, at least not to machinists' tolerances. The minor diameter of M12 is 10.106mm. This is the size of pin you would need to set the alignment with the drill's quill. A 10mm pin will still allow 0.1mm, 0.004", of slop. And it's likely that the minor diameter of the chuck is a bit larger, to ease threading on a spindle nose. Also, the drill bit should be as short as possible. Drills flex. Using a screw machine bit (stubby bit) will help. And, of course, you'll need to find a way to fixture the collet so it is immobile once it's aligned and on the drill press table. The usual kind of drill press vice does not hold round objects in a vertical orientation very well. Still, as you can find M14x1 collet chucks on Amazon fairly inexpensively, you won't be out much if the enlarging doesn't work out. Best of luck. -- Elliot Nesterman elliot@...www.ajoure.net "The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Are you sure about that? The tap drill for an M12x1 tap is 11mm. That is what I used making the collet chuck and faceplate that I worked on. Both fit the Unimat SL spindle. See the Metric fine thread chart here:??I am a bit math-challenged, but that should make the minor diameter 11mm or perhaps a bit more. If it were M12x1.5 or M12x1.75 you'd be closer, but probably not enough to get good concentricity.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 09:54:10 AM CDT, Elliot Nesterman <elliot@...> wrote:
Without a milling machine or a lathe, achieving perfect axial alignment
will be difficult if not impossible. You can get close, or even perfect
if you're lucky, with a drill press. Drilling by hand you will ruin the
collet chuck.
Drills are not precision instruments. They like to wander, even once
they're in the bore. Guiding a drill by hand to achieve perfect
alignment of any sort is not possible, at least not to machinists'
tolerances.
The minor diameter of M12 is 10.106mm. This is the size of pin you would
need to set the alignment with the drill's quill. A 10mm pin will still
allow 0.1mm, 0.004", of slop. And it's likely that the minor diameter of
the chuck is a bit larger, to ease threading on a spindle nose.
Also, the drill bit should be as short as possible. Drills flex. Using a
screw machine bit (stubby bit) will help.
And, of course, you'll need to find a way to fixture the collet so it is
immobile once it's aligned and on the drill press table. The usual kind
of drill press vice does not hold round objects in a vertical
orientation very well.
Still, as you can find M14x1 collet chucks on Amazon fairly
inexpensively, you won't be out much if the enlarging doesn't work out.
Best of luck.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Without a milling machine or a lathe, achieving perfect axial alignment
will be difficult if not impossible. You can get close, or even perfect
if you're lucky, with a drill press. Drilling by hand you will ruin the
collet chuck.
Drills are not precision instruments. They like to wander, even once
they're in the bore. Guiding a drill by hand to achieve perfect
alignment of any sort is not possible, at least not to machinists'
tolerances.
The minor diameter of M12 is 10.106mm. This is the size of pin you would
need to set the alignment with the drill's quill. A 10mm pin will still
allow 0.1mm, 0.004", of slop. And it's likely that the minor diameter of
the chuck is a bit larger, to ease threading on a spindle nose.
Also, the drill bit should be as short as possible. Drills flex. Using a
screw machine bit (stubby bit) will help.
And, of course, you'll need to find a way to fixture the collet so it is
immobile once it's aligned and on the drill press table. The usual kind
of drill press vice does not hold round objects in a vertical
orientation very well.
Still, as you can find M14x1 collet chucks on Amazon fairly
inexpensively, you won't be out much if the enlarging doesn't work out.
Best of luck.
--
Elliot Nesterman
elliot@...
www.ajoure.net
"The finest jewel cannot disguise a flawed character."
|
Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
I've
plugged pickles in to 120v and 220v. Try it!
On 4/20/2023 4:40 AM, Jeff R. Allen
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I enjoyed one experienced machinist's explanation:
It's all about the hardness, get them in the right order and
anything cuts anything:
Diamond cuts carbide
Carbide cuts tool steel
Tool steel cuts metals
Metal cuts plastic
Plastic cuts potatoes!
Anyone tried milling food on their Unimat? :)
Jeff
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 06:52
Dave Seiter < d.seiter@...>
wrote:
I don't see why not; in the distant past
I've used carbide-tipped blades for wood on my table saw
to cut aluminum.
-Dave
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:58:14 AM PDT,
McKee, Don {Quaker} < donmckee@...>
wrote:
I've always wondered if one of the small
carbide tipped trim saw blades, from a Big Box
Store, could be used as a slitting saw blade in
non-ferrous metals?? Some of these blades leave a
fairly thin kerf.? Alright, maybe NOT on a Unimat,
but something a little heftier?
I've seen several you-tubers use standard carbide
router bits to mill non-ferrous metals, even some
mild steel using light cuts.? (If it's on the
Interwebb it's gotta be good - right?)? Other than
the fact that the blades would be 3"-4" of
whirling-whizzing death, why wouldn't it work??
Even a small slitting saw will do plenty of
personal damage if you get careless.
Don
|
Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
I enjoyed one experienced machinist's explanation: It's all about the hardness, get them in the right order and anything cuts anything: Diamond cuts carbide Carbide cuts tool steel Tool steel cuts metals Metal cuts plastic Plastic cuts potatoes!
Anyone tried milling food on their Unimat? :)
Jeff
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 06:52 Dave Seiter < d.seiter@...> wrote:
I don't see why not; in the distant past I've used carbide-tipped blades for wood on my table saw to cut aluminum.
-Dave
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:58:14 AM PDT, McKee, Don {Quaker} < donmckee@...> wrote:
I've always wondered if one of the small carbide tipped trim saw blades, from a Big Box Store, could be used as a slitting saw blade in non-ferrous metals?? Some of these blades leave a fairly thin kerf.? Alright, maybe NOT on a Unimat, but something a little heftier?
I've seen several you-tubers use standard carbide router bits to mill non-ferrous metals, even some mild steel using light cuts.? (If it's on the Interwebb it's gotta be good - right?)? Other than the fact that the blades would be 3"-4" of whirling-whizzing death, why wouldn't it work?? Even a small slitting saw will do plenty of personal damage if you get careless.
Don
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Re: Retainer springs in collet nuts
Steve, ? That ¡°retaining spring¡± in the clamping nut is an integral part of the ¡°ER¡± series of collets.? One is supposed to insert the collet into the nut before mounting it on the collet holder, and remove it from the nut after removing it from the holder.? When the nut is loosened, the purpose of the spring is to capture the collet to pull it out of the holder. ? You might want to read this:? ? ? Jerry F. California? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 8:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unimat] Retainer springs in collet nuts? I'm going to make a collet holder, using the instructions from Doug Collinge (from this forum). Just got the collets and the collet nut (shipped from Denmark, but made in China). The quality looks good enough for my needs, I'll check runout when I get it setup.
My question: The nut has a retaining spring, which maybe for a router might make sense, but makes for a PITA when changing collets. Is it necessary to have this retainer? Can I remove it? I'd like to put the collet away after each use, and see no need to keep it on a leash.
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Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
I don't see why not; in the distant past I've used carbide-tipped blades for wood on my table saw to cut aluminum.
-Dave
On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:58:14 AM PDT, McKee, Don {Quaker} <donmckee@...> wrote:
I've always wondered if one of the small carbide tipped trim saw blades, from a Big Box Store, could be used as a slitting saw blade in non-ferrous metals?? Some of these blades leave a fairly thin kerf.? Alright, maybe NOT on a Unimat, but something a little heftier?
I've seen several you-tubers use standard carbide router bits to mill non-ferrous metals, even some mild steel using light cuts.? (If it's on the Interwebb it's gotta be good - right?)? Other than the fact that the blades would be 3"-4" of whirling-whizzing death, why wouldn't it work?? Even a small slitting saw will do plenty of personal damage if you get careless.
Don
|
Retainer springs in collet nuts
I'm going to make a collet holder, using the instructions from Doug Collinge (from this forum). Just got the collets and the collet nut (shipped from Denmark, but made in China). The quality looks good enough for my needs, I'll check runout when I get it setup.
My question: The nut has a retaining spring, which maybe for a router might make sense, but makes for a PITA when changing collets. Is it necessary to have this retainer? Can I remove it? I'd like to put the collet away after each use, and see no need to keep it on a leash.
|
Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
Hello Bill,
Your comments about building early machine tools brought back a memory from trade school. One of our early projects was to make a four jaw independent chuck screw complete with square socket. The square socket was first drilled round to depth with four small corner holes and subsequently chiseled out square using a cape chisel. We were graded on this. As I recall the independent chuck screw turned out amazingly well. Through the years these hand skills were proven useful for other purposes as well. I sure enjoyed my time in the trade.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
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Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Use a drill press. Chuck in an m12 drill and use it to center the hole and clamp the object. replace the m2 with an m13 drill bit.
Drilling by hand allowing the m13 drill bit to ¡°seek its center¡± will get you close but not guaranteed to be as good as the above.
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Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
? ? ?From my own ham-fisted experience, boring will give better results.? If you must drill, using a short bit can help.? Also, try enlarging in more than one step.? Have you experimented with a piece of?scrap steel?
On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:04?PM Steve Johnson < steve@...> wrote: If you have a drill press, I would put the 12mm bit in the chuck, with power off lower the chuck/bit into the piece, then clamp the piece to the drill press table. Raise the chuck, replace with 13mm and drill
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Re: Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
If you have a drill press, I would put the 12mm bit in the chuck, with power off lower the chuck/bit into the piece, then clamp the piece to the drill press table. Raise the chuck, replace with 13mm and drill
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Widening an existing hole with a drill bit: how to guarantee concentricity?
Hi gang,?
Tried Google but wasn't able to get a definitive answer.?
I have an m12 hole (which is supposedly perfectly centered) and I want to widen it to m13.?
Assuming I do this using a hand drill + HSS twist drill bit, will concentricity (new hole exactly concentric to original home) be guaranteed (assuming I start off the operation at close to perpendicular)??
My hope is that the existing "pilot" hole will force the drill bit to match it's concentricity.?
I'm not sure if this is true.?
For context, I have a m12 er16 collet chuck, and I want to widen it to take m14 thread.?
PS:
My lathe is still out of commission, so I can't do other turning methods like boring.?
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Re: Slitting on a Unimat SL?
#db200
Just got back from our local hardware store and picked up a Diablo 7-1/4" finish blade, the kerf is 1/16, which is perfect! I'll make a nice sturdy sled for the motor mount and slit away. Should be able to cast the part tomorrow, realized my casting flask was too small and had to make a larger one out of baltic birch.
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Steve Jaynes
Bill in OKC too
Mike
Carl
Steve Johnson
OldToolmaker