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Re: Induction Unimat motor?
P.S. Sorry, wanted to say: “Cased and timed” locally in the UK, North America and Australia! ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Alan Ehrlich Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 6:42 AM To: [email protected]; vpol1@... Subject: Re: [Unimat] Induction Unimat motor? ? Very interesting: “MADE IN HOLLAND”. ? Did Emco have a subsidiary in the Netherlands? Or a ‘big’ Benelux importer who found a customs/import-duty advantage by adding the motors locally? There are historical examples of the latter elsewhere in other countries/industries (e.g. Swiss watch movements “Cased and timed” locally in the UK, North America and Canada... including significant numbers of Rolex, JLC, Longines, Cartier, etc. wristwatches). ? Some ‘precedent’ also can be seen in the example of Edelstahl’s role for North America. ? Could you please also show us a photo of the label that’s on the Unimat itself! ? Kind regards, Alan Geneva, Switzerland ? ? ? Some older Unimats feature the type of motor pictured below.
Is this an induction motor? It has a housing on the side that indicates presence of a capacitor, and no sign of brush access holes. It is also 125W, an improvement over typical 90W. Induction motors hold speed and torque under load much better than brushed universal ones.
Does anyone have any information or experience with it?
Thank you.
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Re: Induction Unimat motor?
Very interesting: “MADE IN HOLLAND”. ? Did Emco have a subsidiary in the Netherlands? Or a ‘big’ Benelux importer who found a customs/import-duty advantage by adding the motors locally? There are historical examples of the latter elsewhere in other countries/industries (e.g. Swiss watch movements “Cased and timed” locally in the UK, North America and Canada... including significant numbers of Rolex, JLC, Longines, Cartier, etc. wristwatches). ? Some ‘precedent’ also can be seen in the example of Edelstahl’s role for North America. ? Could you please also show us a photo of the label that’s on the Unimat itself! ? Kind regards, Alan Geneva, Switzerland ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Tinkerer22 via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2024 2:15 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [Unimat] Induction Unimat motor? ? Some older Unimats feature the type of motor pictured below.
Is this an induction motor? It has a housing on the side that indicates presence of a capacitor, and no sign of brush access holes. It is also 125W, an improvement over typical 90W. Induction motors hold speed and torque under load much better than brushed universal ones.
Does anyone have any information or experience with it?
Thank you.
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Re: Uploaded Lathe Operations US Army Correspondence Course Program 1988
I suggest for anyone here wanting to learn how to run a lathe get your hands on a copy of “How to Run a Lathe” by South Bend. This is one of the best ways to get started as it covers all aspects of the subject.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
I bought some NOS 1/4” HSS tool blanks on ebay and hand grind them. I’m vey pleased with the results.
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On Jun 11, 2024, at 1:20?PM, pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote:
?I have the Edselstaal tooling system, as well as the 6 tool set that came with the Unimat. I have used the tooling system and find it easy to use and maintain, I touch up the bits on a diamond stone.? ? I also have a few of the spare inserts, one is colored red and another gold, one is HSS and the other maybe carbon.? I also have the set of indexed bits from harbor freight, those work moderately well but not at low speed, as they tend to dig in and chip.? ?I have purchased inserts from a tooling place in Arkansas as well.? ?I purchased the mini-lathe bit set (carbide) both the long and short sets from harbor freight, I had to take them to work and use the machinists tool grinder to regrind the bits as they were all set up wrong.? ?Harbor Freight also has a set of 4mm carbide bits they are tiny and about 1.5 inches long, they work well.? I purchased from HF a set of diamond cutting disks with 1/4" arbors and I use the Unimat with the disks to sharpen the bits.? ?I find it almost as precise as using the tool grinder at work, but since I am now retired it will have to do.? I made a tool holder for the Unimat that supports 5/16 th bits although I don't use it much.? ?Boring bars, I use the Micro 100 that are on ebay, they work well. but one has to feed them gently or they will snap.? I find hand grinding is easy and it doesn't need to be perfect to work.? ?
Pat in OSOS?
Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
Instructions for the Edelstaal tools have been posted in the Unimat
files.? They have the color codes for the cutters, and sharpening
instruction.? Bits are M-2 high speed steel, T-15 high speed steel, and
carbide.
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On 6/11/24 11:20, pat goodyear wrote: I have the Edselstaal tooling system, as well as the 6 tool set that
came with the Unimat. I have used the tooling system and find it easy
to use and maintain, I touch up the bits on a diamond stone.? ? I also
have a few of the spare inserts, one is colored red and another gold,
one is HSS and the other maybe carbon.? I also have the set of indexed
bits from harbor freight, those work moderately well but not at low
speed, as they tend to dig in and chip.? ?I have purchased inserts
from a tooling place in Arkansas as well.? ?I purchased the mini-lathe
bit set (carbide) both the long and short sets from harbor freight, I
had to take them to work and use the machinists tool grinder to
regrind the bits as they were all set up wrong.? ?Harbor Freight also
has a set of 4mm carbide bits they are tiny and about 1.5 inches long,
they work well.? I purchased from HF a set of diamond cutting disks
with 1/4" arbors and I use the Unimat with the disks to sharpen the
bits.? ?I find it almost as precise as using the tool grinder at work,
but since I am now retired it will have to do.? I made a tool holder
for the Unimat that supports 5/16 th bits although I don't use it
much.? ?Boring bars, I use the Micro 100 that are on ebay, they work
well. but one has to feed them gently or they will snap.? I find hand
grinding is easy and it doesn't need to be perfect to work.
Pat in OSOS
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Some older Unimats feature the type of motor pictured below. Is this an induction motor? It has a housing on the side that indicates presence of a capacitor, and no sign of brush access holes. It is also 125W, an improvement over typical 90W. Induction motors hold speed and torque under load much better than brushed universal ones. Does anyone have any information or experience with it? Thank you. 
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
Re: the HF indexed carbide tooling, Can be used is not the same thing as will work well. ;) On the brazed carbide tools from HF, I had SO much trouble with them until I realized that the carbide chips on them were square edged, and the nominal cutting edge on the top corner didn't actually touch the work because the bottom corner stuck out farther. Supposedly you need a silicon carbide grinding wheel to grind them, and I had one, but the machine it was for didn't work anymore. Another rebuild project. Also, I didn't want to clog it up, since it was for a lapidary machine, so I tried my 6" grinder with Alox wheels. Worked decently, and I was able to get the tools to cut... But they're still crummy. And that was on a larger and stiffer lathe and a Unimat DB or SL. Have no experience with the larger Unimats. (Waaaahhhh!) Yet anyway.?
Did eventually learn to grind HSS, and while I still have (and occasionally use) carbide tooling, for most of what I do HSS is far superior on the smaller machines I have and use.?
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 12:20:46 PM CDT, pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote:
I have the Edselstaal tooling system, as well as the 6 tool set that came with the Unimat. I have used the tooling system and find it easy to use and maintain, I touch up the bits on a diamond stone.? ? I also have a few of the spare inserts, one is colored red and another gold, one is HSS and the other maybe carbon.? I also have the set of indexed bits from harbor freight, those work moderately well but not at low speed, as they tend to dig in and chip.? ?I have purchased inserts from a tooling place in Arkansas as well.? ?I purchased the mini-lathe bit set (carbide) both the long and short sets from harbor freight, I had to take them to work and use the machinists tool grinder to regrind the bits as they were all set up wrong.? ?Harbor Freight also has a set of 4mm carbide bits they are tiny and about 1.5 inches long, they work well.? I purchased from HF a set of diamond cutting disks with 1/4" arbors and I use the Unimat with the disks to sharpen the bits.? ?I find it almost as precise as using the tool grinder at work, but since I am now retired it will have to do.? I made a tool holder for the Unimat that supports 5/16 th bits although I don't use it much.? ?Boring bars, I use the Micro 100 that are on ebay, they work well. but one has to feed them gently or they will snap.? I find hand grinding is easy and it doesn't need to be perfect to work.? ?
Pat in OSOS?
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
I have the Edselstaal tooling system, as well as the 6 tool set that came with the Unimat. I have used the tooling system and find it easy to use and maintain, I touch up the bits on a diamond stone.? ? I also have a few of the spare inserts, one is colored red and another gold, one is HSS and the other maybe carbon.? I also have the set of indexed bits from harbor freight, those work moderately well but not at low speed, as they tend to dig in and chip.? ?I have purchased inserts from a tooling place in Arkansas as well.? ?I purchased the mini-lathe bit set (carbide) both the long and short sets from harbor freight, I had to take them to work and use the machinists tool grinder to regrind the bits as they were all set up wrong.? ?Harbor Freight also has a set of 4mm carbide bits they are tiny and about 1.5 inches long, they work well.? I purchased from HF a set of diamond cutting disks with 1/4" arbors and I use the Unimat with the disks to sharpen the bits.? ?I find it almost as precise as using the tool grinder at work, but since I am now retired it will have to do.? I made a tool holder for the Unimat that supports 5/16 th bits although I don't use it much.? ?Boring bars, I use the Micro 100 that are on ebay, they work well. but one has to feed them gently or they will snap.? I find hand grinding is easy and it doesn't need to be perfect to work.? ?
Pat in OSOS?
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Re: File /Edelstaal-Cutting-Tool-Inst..pdf uploaded
#file-notice
?I have a bunch of these and some where have files on them. From my notes: Super HSS was Red bit M4 HSS was Black They were made by : J.D.G. Tool Co.
726 Gerald Court
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11235 Here is a handy tool post grinding chart. And another ad for them.
?Jeff
Thanks for the info, very useful.
Peter B in Florida
On 6/10/2024 6:18 PM, Group
Notification wrote:
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files
area of the [email protected] group.
By: Charles Daldry <horologer1@...>
Description:
Instruction sheet for Edelstaal insert cutting tools
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File /Edelstaal-Cutting-Tool-Inst..pdf uploaded
#file-notice
The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.
By: Charles Daldry <horologer1@...>
Description:
Instruction sheet for Edelstaal insert cutting tools
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
? If there is any interest, I can post a copy of the instructions
I would also like to have a copy of the instructions. -Brad
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
The instructions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter B.
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
Minor technicality, but the Edelstaal tooling system was developed for the Machinex 5 lathe.?? the only catalog I have seen this tooling in is the Machinex 5 accessories.? I purchased an unused Machinex lathe with a set of tooling in a fitted plastic box plus extra bits in M-2 and T-15 high speed steel plus a few carbide inserts.? The instructions for the tools say to sharpen the front clearance of the bit and lightly grind the side clearance to ensure it is sharp.? It takes a few minutes to sharpen a bit the first time, and less to touch it up.? They seem to do a good job of cutting if properly sharpened.? I have not tried the cutoff tool, the fly cutter, or the boring bar.? If there is any interest, I can post a copy of the instructions.
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
" As I recall, the benefit of the formed tool stock is that you just have to grind one face, and the other angles appear as if by magic. "
Of course this was the selling point for Unimat buyers. The clamping mechanism guaranteed proper alignment, and the long holder length allowed for 'minimal' bit stick-out and rigidity. IIRC, this was a copy from another manufacturer, but I can't remember which one.
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Re: Recommendations for learning the basics
Larry,
We all started from the bottom and eventually worked our way up.
I began my journey on my dad’s 9”South Bend. Eventually I spent two years in trade school and then started working in the trade.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
|
I don’t have any pictures. When I find some time I can try to post some.
Dick
--
http://www.homemadetools.net/forum/?OFF-SET-tailstock-center-65965#post105972
?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
?LARGE TURRET TOOL POST PLANS
?MINI-LATHE CARRIAGE LOCK PLANS
?SMALL QC TOOL POST PLANS?
?QUICK CHANGE LATHE TURRET
?MINI LATHE COMPOUND PIVOT MODIFICATION
|
Last I looked, which has been a little while, you could get used Swiss-made ER collets on eBay for about $16-$20. If that price is close, you could pick one up in the specific size you need as needed, and not kill the budget. Much, anyway. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 10:57:43 PM CDT, Dave Seiter <d.seiter@...> wrote:
Two years ago I got chinese ER40 chucks in a number of styles (R8, 40 taper, MT3, and one I'm forgetting at the moment), and the chucks are all within .0002-.0005 runout, but the collets I've tried all seem to have about .0015- .002 runout when installed, regardless of what I do to try and true them up.? I don't use them much, so I'm waiting for a local shop auction or sale of US made collets to see if they are any better.
-Dave
On Saturday, June 8, 2024 at 10:06:02 PM PDT, Keith S. Angus <keithsangus@...> wrote:
And of course the sort of runout you should expect is more like 0.0004"
If you can do the M12 thread and recess, then the 8° taper shouldn't be too bad - might take a few goes to get it right. Then it's just the outer thread to take the nut. These can be odd sizes and pitches but so far I've found the right ones on Ebay. I haven't bought them, but I was considering setting up to make the holders on a bigger lathe, using screw cutting and finishing off with a die. As I've said before, if you make the holder of brass you'll give yourself the best chance of getting it right, and it shouldn't wear significantly with our sort of use. I find that collets work very nicely in brass holders, although I haven't made them for ERs.
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Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
If you've ever ground a 1/2" or larger lathe tool, you'll know that lighter tooling has its advantages, but compared to 6mm stuff, I wouldn't think it would matter that much. I will try to avoid buying that stuff since I don't need to inflame my TES. That's Tool Envy Syndrome, in case you're not familiar with TES. I've got it bad!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 05:58:42 PM CDT, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:
Interesting idea.? If the question is why didn't this idea take off, I don't know.? Perhaps because it adds more cost to buy the blank compared to plain blanks.? And perhaps not with much benefit.
Since you have to grind the tool bit some anyway, grinding a little side clearance is no big deal.
Also, that shape reduces the cross section the length of the blank and therefore reduces the stiffness.? With a square blank, the part not ground will be stiffer.
M2-HSS is the most common and affordable tool blank alloy and is what most people are buying even if they don't know it.
On those fancy cross section bits, I just don't see enough of a plus (very modest convenience) compared to minuses (cost and weaker cross section).
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer?
On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 03:48:37 PM PDT, John Entwistle via groups.io <jentwistle3@...> wrote:
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On Jun 9, 2024, at 6:39?PM, Brad Barton via groups.io <xbartx@...> wrote:
?
One reason I couldn't find much information on these was that I misspelled Edelstaal.
Here is a closeup look at the inserts, they are preformed and not square.
Says that they come in M-2 HSS, T-15 HSS & Carbide
<dummyfile.0.part>
?
?
<dummyfile.1.part>
Re: Edelstall cutting tool system
Figures, I "open my mouth" with the keyboard, the internet slaps me in said "mouth!"?
Lot cheaper to buy the square HSS stock, but might be nice to have that material for special projects. :)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.
On Sunday, June 9, 2024 at 05:48:35 PM CDT, John Entwistle via groups.io <jentwistle3@...> wrote:
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On Jun 9, 2024, at 6:39?PM, Brad Barton via groups.io <xbartx@...> wrote:
?
One reason I couldn't find much information on these was that I misspelled Edelstaal.
Here is a closeup look at the inserts, they are preformed and not square.
Says that they come in M-2 HSS, T-15 HSS & Carbide
<dummyfile.0.part>
?
?
<dummyfile.1.part>
OldToolmaker
John Entwistle
Bill in OKC too