Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
I'm am pretty sure, this box was made with Pine Plywood and finger joints, which, even I can manage on a table saw, with a finger joint jig, if the blade was not so far back from me... I'm vertically challenged.? ??You can see lots of videos on making a jig for your table saw, it is a pretty cool when you use the jig for the finger joints.? Note, I've only done this in 1/12th scale box making class, under instruction and on a preac table saw; the box would be larger then any of my miniature table saw tops, so this would have to be done on a contractors or normal size table saw.
if you are a book or magazine person, there is a lot of instruction on this basic jig for finger joint to use on a table saw.
I Baltic Birch comes in 3/8" or 9 mm plywood.??
Due to the weight of the lathe in proportion to the strength of the plywood, I would not use 1/8" or 1/4" thickness of plywood.? Solid wood will give you the most strength though.... probably overkill to use solid wood.
My husband had me watch a guy from Canada make small boxes for an organizer tonite, but I can't find the video now.
I have not done this yet, either, but love this concept for boxes; it would be interesting to do this box for the unimat...
He is using a very thin plywood in this box, but I really do like this concept, and I have used our standard router router before.
I can double check with my husband tomorrow that it is pine, but he is already asleep, and if I am wrong, I will post tomorrow.
Tamra
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Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
I would only use Baltic birch for all panels.? I do not see many other choices.? Get a Minwax stain chart from the hardware store.? Something should be close.
Are you staining after cutting and before assembly?? Satin varnish?? I think only oil-based stain and varnish.
As far as joints, a decent plywood blade in a table saw should do fine.? If you try a general purpose blade, you are taking a chance.
Small glued interior corner bracing all around would help.? If you want to put in nails to duplicate the original appearance, measure out and predrill the holes in a drill press first.? Carefully sand very small angles on all outside edges with a finishing sander if you think that you can hold a good line.
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Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
Yes, I see what you mean now. I've had trouble with box joints in birch ply as well.
My box sides looks a lot like pine to me - a softwood with uneven grain and some good size knots. You could plane down some clear pine jamb material - I'll bet that would work nicely. I haven't sanded or scratched it to see what the original color is though.
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On Aug 19, 2023, at 1:52 PM, Pachyderm <mirafone186@...> wrote:
I have had bad luck cutting clean box joints in plywood. I mentioned above, however, that I have some nice 6 mm (.25") Baltic birch plywood (from a subwoofer enclosure project I did) that would work nicely for the base and top. I am looking for the same side wood used in these old boxes. It ticks all my boxes. I do not want it to be really heavy. I like the original wood quite a bit for this application.
Thanks for the ideas, though.
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Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
I have had bad luck cutting clean box joints in plywood. I mentioned above, however, that I have some nice 6 mm (.25") Baltic birch plywood (from a subwoofer enclosure project I did) that would work nicely for the base and top. I am looking for the same side wood used in these old boxes. It ticks all my boxes. I do not want it to be really heavy. I like the original wood quite a bit for this application.
Thanks for the ideas, though.
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Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
Mine is prime example of how good it is!!!
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On Aug 19, 2023, at 1:14 PM, Steve Johnson <steve@...> wrote:
? IMO, the original boxes are made of some pretty cheap wood. I'd opt for using a much better wood and staining it to be close to the original color. My go-to for these sorts of projects is Baltic Birch. There are zero voids in this plywood and
it is super sturdy.?
Hey, folks¡
I have increased the footprint and height of my SL (addition of the power feed, a baseplate, and a QCTP) so that the use of the original box is no longer possible.?
I want to copy the box using the same wood used in the side plates, but nicer stuff for the base and lid.??(I have some very nice, thin Baltic birch plywood for the top and base.) What is the wood used for the side panels of the box and lid? Does anyone know
for sure? I like the thickness and weight, and I wish to retain that. I plan to make box joints and try to copy the original as much as possible, to the point of tacking the original metal tag to the new one.
I have all the tools and can easily make one of these, but generally, I have very little knowledge of different species of wood, so what these boxes are constructed of is a mystery to me.
Thanks!
Wade
<IMG_0575.jpeg>
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Re: That Dang Wooden Box¡
IMO, the original boxes are made of some pretty cheap wood. I'd opt for using a much better wood and staining it to be close to the original color. My go-to for these sorts of projects is Baltic Birch. There are zero voids in this plywood and it is super sturdy.?
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Show quoted text
Hey, folks¡
I have increased the footprint and height of my SL (addition of the power feed, a baseplate, and a QCTP) so that the use of the original box is no longer possible.?
I want to copy the box using the same wood used in the side plates, but nicer stuff for the base and lid.??(I have some very nice, thin Baltic birch plywood for the top and base.) What is the wood used for the side panels of the box and lid? Does anyone know for sure? I like the thickness and weight, and I wish to retain that. I plan to make box joints and try to copy the original as much as possible, to the point of tacking the original metal tag to the new one.
I have all the tools and can easily make one of these, but generally, I have very little knowledge of different species of wood, so what these boxes are constructed of is a mystery to me.
Thanks!
Wade
<IMG_0575.jpeg>
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Hey, folks¡ I have increased the footprint and height of my SL (addition of the power feed, a baseplate, and a QCTP) so that the use of the original box is no longer possible.? I want to copy the box using the same wood used in the side plates, but nicer stuff for the base and lid.??(I have some very nice, thin Baltic birch plywood for the top and base.) What is the wood used for the side panels of the box and lid? Does anyone know for sure? I like the thickness and weight, and I wish to retain that. I plan to make box joints and try to copy the original as much as possible, to the point of tacking the original metal tag to the new one. I have all the tools and can easily make one of these, but generally, I have very little knowledge of different species of wood, so what these boxes are constructed of is a mystery to me. Thanks! Wade 
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Yup paper chips are always less expensive than metal chips. Designs lead by manufacturing capabilities are always more successful. I remember Nimonic maybe 400? being considered for our highest stressed components. In the end we settled on inconel 718 precipitation hardened.?
Always a challenge balancing material properties against manufacturability.?
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 01:26 PM, Tool247 wrote:
The work hardening issue is common among all austenitic stainless alloys all the way up to the high nickel super alloys like inconels and monels.
?
When Dad designed his experimental plant to determine the properties of steam at high temperature and pressure (800¡ãC, 1000 Bar - 1472¡ãF, 14500 psi) everything had to be made of Nimonic - primarily a nickel chrome alloy. (It's a descendant, via the early jet engines, of the nichrome wire used in electric fire elements.) The college got some bars and put them on the donkey saw to cut the end off one. At the end of the day they'd used up their stock of blades and were still only halfway through. He went to Wiggin Nickel, who put the bar up on what looked like a modern chop saw (this was 1950s). The blade was a disc of soft iron, but it went round very fast. It chopped off the bar, with a huge shower of sparks, and the disc was half the size. Chuck the remnants away, fit a new disc, and they were ready burn through the next cut.
One component needed a ?" diameter hole drilled 12" deep into solid Nimonic. He was very concerned about how to do it as any work hardening would scrap the whole job, but he discovered someone in Bristol had made something similar a few years before. He went down to Bristol to see what he could learn, and took a technician from the workshops with him. While Dad chatted about the rig design with the Bristol academic, the technician discussed machining techniques with the guy who had done the work. After that Dad was considered a VIP in the workshops. No academic had ever before (and maybe not since) thought to get his technician that involved in the project as to actually take him out as part of the team. He subsequently made many complex components in Nimonic, and (I've just checked) says in the Acknowledgements of his PhD thesis Dad says: "My thanks are due to Mr A. M. Alger, of the Imperial College Chemical Engineering Workshops, without whose skill the plant could not have been built"
It was typical of Dad that whilst being? leading academic in his field, constantly dealing with advanced maths and tricky statistics, he was very aware of the everyday practicalities and difficulties of simply making stuff - not always simply. I recall the name Alger coming up quite often during chats at home. Maybe this is part of the reason I always like to be in touch with the people who make the machinery I design, and to try to avoid difficulties at the design stage.
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On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 01:26 PM, Tool247 wrote:
The work hardening issue is common among all austenitic stainless alloys all the way up to the high nickel super alloys like inconels and monels.
?
When Dad designed his experimental plant to determine the properties of steam at high temperature and pressure (800¡ãC, 1000 Bar - 1472¡ãF, 14500 psi) everything had to be made of Nimonic - primarily a nickel chrome alloy. (It's a descendant, via the early jet engines, of the nichrome wire used in electric fire elements.) The college got some bars and put them on the donkey saw to cut the end off one. At the end of the day they'd used up their stock of blades and were still only halfway through. He went to Wiggin Nickel, who put the bar up on what looked like a modern chop saw (this was 1950s). The blade was a disc of soft iron, but it went round very fast. It chopped off the bar, with a huge shower of sparks, and the disc was half the size. Chuck the remnants away, fit a new disc, and they were ready burn through the next cut. One component needed a ?" diameter hole drilled 12" deep into solid Nimonic. He was very concerned about how to do it as any work hardening would scrap the whole job, but he discovered someone in Bristol had made something similar a few years before. He went down to Bristol to see what he could learn, and took a technician from the workshops with him. While Dad chatted about the rig design with the Bristol academic, the technician discussed machining techniques with the guy who had done the work. After that Dad was considered a VIP in the workshops. No academic had ever before (and maybe not since) thought to get his technician that involved in the project as to actually take him out as part of the team. He subsequently made many complex components in Nimonic, and (I've just checked) says in the Acknowledgements of his PhD thesis Dad says: "My thanks are due to Mr A. M. Alger, of the Imperial College Chemical Engineering Workshops, without whose skill the plant could not have been built" It was typical of Dad that whilst being? leading academic in his field, constantly dealing with advanced maths and tricky statistics, he was very aware of the everyday practicalities and difficulties of simply making stuff - not always simply. I recall the name Alger coming up quite often during chats at home. Maybe this is part of the reason I always like to be in touch with the people who make the machinery I design, and to try to avoid difficulties at the design stage.
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Re: Unimat 3 Milling Head; upgrading the vertical column
It is 3/4 - 1" river stone.? The pile is spare for the driveway.? It makes a fair backdrop. Where we live(NJ) it is all clay, basaltic rock, shale.
On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 8:18?PM old_toolmaker via <old_toolmaker= [email protected]> wrote: John,
Nice job on the SL! I like your vertical micrometer adjustment!
From your picture it appears you might live in an area with a lot of small smooth stones. It reminds me of the ?north shore of Lake Superior.
Dick
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Re: Unimat 3 Milling Head; upgrading the vertical column
John,
Nice job on the SL! I like your vertical micrometer adjustment!
From your picture it appears you might live in an area with a lot of small smooth stones. It reminds me of the ?north shore of Lake Superior.
Dick
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?SMALL TURRET TOOL POST PLANS?
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That is a really cool story. Reminded me of my college days.? I grew up in central NY and got a scholarship to go away to school at Wentworth Institute of Technology in Boston.? Those days Wentworth was trying to up its game from its 1904 tech school reputation to a 20th then 21st century university.? They had lots of money so they were buying up all kinds of real estate around Boston.? The old Boston Trade School was across the street so they bought up all the buildings there.? In the basement were several huge lathes.? You had to sit on a chair on the saddle as you turned- with those machines.? I was told that during World War 2 that school and shop were commandeered by the US Navy to make warship cannon barrels.? Turned, gun drilled and bored......same thing...amazing machinery that held an important place in history.?
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 12:31?PM pat goodyear < pgoodyear@...> wrote: So prior to my commercial Nuclear Power plant days, I was an ET (electronics technician) in the Navy, specialty was Reactor Operator in submarines, actually I was the Leading Reactor Operator on both of the submarines I served on, SSN621 and SSN605.? ?So on deployment my submarine damaged the hydraulic ram on the fairwater planes ( the ones on the sail ) and we went back to the tender to have it fixed.? ?This is the second time I had seen a massive lathe at work.? ?The machinists on the tender had to MAKE a new ram?from bar stock on a 20-30 foot long lathe.? No biggie you say.? ?The bar stock in question was a ten" x20 '? chunk of hex K-Monel.? The lathe ran 24/7 for a week straight to shape and not warp the ram, I think the shaft diameter was around 4" and the disc was about 8". I remember chips flying off of the machine red turning blue in flight.? The lathe was turning at a slow speed so as not to heat up the stock.? ?First massive lathe was in the shipyards in Vallejo where they Bored the re-poured babbit out of the submarines's main shaft bearing, it was, 100 feet long 28" in diameter standing 60 feet off of the drydock floor.?
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So prior to my commercial Nuclear Power plant days, I was an ET (electronics technician) in the Navy, specialty was Reactor Operator in submarines, actually I was the Leading Reactor Operator on both of the submarines I served on, SSN621 and SSN605.? ?So on deployment my submarine damaged the hydraulic ram on the fairwater planes ( the ones on the sail ) and we went back to the tender to have it fixed.? ?This is the second time I had seen a massive lathe at work.? ?The machinists on the tender had to MAKE a new ram?from bar stock on a 20-30 foot long lathe.? No biggie you say.? ?The bar stock in question was a ten" x20 '? chunk of hex K-Monel.? The lathe ran 24/7 for a week straight to shape and not warp the ram, I think the shaft diameter was around 4" and the disc was about 8". I remember chips flying off of the machine red turning blue in flight.? The lathe was turning at a slow speed so as not to heat up the stock.? ?First massive lathe was in the shipyards in Vallejo where they Bored the re-poured babbit out of the submarines's main shaft bearing, it was, 100 feet long 28" in diameter standing 60 feet off of the drydock floor.?
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The work hardening issue is common among all austenitic stainless alloys all the way up to the high nickel super alloys like inconels and monels.
The degree of severity seems to be directly correlated to the amount of nickel. Inco 718 in particular if you run it too fast it heats up and abrades the cutter and eats tools.? If you cut it too slow it work hardens and abrades the cutter and eats tools.? This can be alleviated in 304 and 316 with proper tool, feed and cooling.? Selenium in 303 makes it a dream to cut.
I had a friend that was a machine shop owner who ran a lot of inco and other super alloys.? His cutter material of choice interestingly was T15 not carbide.? Back then carbide had sharper edges but did not have the toughness of some of the carbides of today.? Rather fussy to run on aggressive materials.? He would make tools with very positive geometry and sharp edges, almost like an aluminum tool, just massive and rigid then take aggressive cuts peeling heavy chips off the material.? I saw him run turned parts that were shaped completely with high positive plunge cuts.? Just plunge to diameter then move axially and rinse and repeat.? Very counter intuitive since plunge type cutoff tools seem so susceptible to chatter and bad finish.? He would end up with a nice finish then one final light finishing pass with a round nose high positive hand ground tool and very aggressive feed would make a mirror finish.
Incidentally he was the first guy to show me how to take chipped carbide inserts and regrind them on a composite diamond grinder by hand, with high positive geometry for precise special use and great finishes.? Had to be careful with those, not too agressive of cuts....?
?
Reminds me of some of the Stainless steels that work harden. I worked it a plant that made Handi Wrap, a plastic food wrap. Everything was either Stainless or Aluminum. The "boys" in the maintaince shop had a habit of rushing a job on the mill and liked to see the blue metal chips a flying. Great with Carbide tools and metal. Not so good with HSS and Stainless. One little pause and a chance for the Stainless to cool down a bit and it would work harden. Then when they would start up again. Instant broken end mill. WD40 sprayed on the cutter was their coolant/lube of choice. Jeff
On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:36:41 PM EDT, pat goodyear < pgoodyear@...> wrote:
So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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Reminds me of some of the Stainless steels that work harden. I worked it a plant that made Handi Wrap, a plastic food wrap. Everything was either Stainless or Aluminum. The "boys" in the maintaince shop had a habit of rushing a job on the mill and liked to see the blue metal chips a flying. Great with Carbide tools and metal. Not so good with HSS and Stainless. One little pause and a chance for the Stainless to cool down a bit and it would work harden. Then when they would start up again. Instant broken end mill. WD40 sprayed on the cutter was their coolant/lube of choice. Jeff
On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:36:41 PM EDT, pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote:
So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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From my naive bolt queries to nuclear fusion in one thread¡. I just love internet forums! ?:-)
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In a nuclear fusion vessel after producing neutrons and activation of the structural components, half lives of these elements are days or months, not decades¡¡
Also some of the specialized materials are warranted, especially in cryogenic design. I remember a technician recounting a sad accident in a nuclear lab in Harvard¡..someone decided to save a few bucks by making a port cover out of a type of plain steel instead of Austenitic stainless (304). The one most critical property of stainless in cryogenic design is its toughness. It does not transition from ductile to brittle under cryogenic conditions.? The mild steel got cold, became brittle and fractured. As a result people perished. System design is a serious business¡¡
I am just guessing here, (as I missed my chance in school to take the reactor operator class), but aside from being light weight, strong, and corrosion resistant, many of the ¡°exotic¡± metals like titanium and vanadium are used in the nuclear power industry because they show little propensity when exposed to neutrons to become ¡°activated¡±. and become radioactive themselves.? Many of the radioactive materials used in nuclear medicine, for example, are made by placing a precursor (non-radioactive) element in the core of a nuclear reactor where it can be bombarded by neutrons.? After a period of time, many of the nuclei of the precursor atoms absorb one to several neutrons and change into a different element that is radioactive. ? Perhaps someone here who has worked in nuclear power can shed some light on this. ? Jerry F. ? ? Both Titanium and aluminum are extremely susceptible to galling. Most likely they cold welded every time. Anodizing or lube are both good practices. Both aluminum and titanium come from the reactive section of the periodic table. Bad to pair them together.? Incidentally both flat heads and straight blades are not recommended for structural applications. Usually sheet metal or light brackets.? I worked in the nuclear R&D ?industry. I swear they loved specifying exotic stuff just to be exotic¡. ? On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:36 PM pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote: So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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I am just guessing here, (as I missed my chance in school to take the reactor operator class), but aside from being light weight, strong, and corrosion resistant, many of the ¡°exotic¡± metals like titanium and vanadium are used in the nuclear power industry because they show little propensity when exposed to neutrons to become ¡°activated¡±. and become radioactive themselves. ?Many of the radioactive materials used in nuclear medicine, for example, are made by placing a precursor (non-radioactive) element in the core of a nuclear reactor where it can be bombarded by neutrons.? After a period of time, many of the nuclei of the precursor atoms absorb one to several neutrons and change into a different element that is radioactive. ? Perhaps someone here who has worked in nuclear power can shed some light on this. ? Jerry F. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tool247
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 8:46 PM
To: [email protected]; pgoodyear@...
Cc: Jkle379184
Subject: Re: [Unimat] Bolt queries? Both Titanium and aluminum are extremely susceptible to galling. Most likely they cold welded every time. Anodizing or lube are both good practices. Both aluminum and titanium come from the reactive section of the periodic table. Bad to pair them together.? Incidentally both flat heads and straight blades are not recommended for structural applications. Usually sheet metal or light brackets.? I worked in the nuclear R&D ?industry. I swear they loved specifying exotic stuff just to be exotic¡. ? On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:36 PM pat goodyear <pgoodyear@...> wrote: So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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Both Titanium and aluminum are extremely susceptible to galling. Most likely they cold welded every time. Anodizing or lube are both good practices. Both aluminum and titanium come from the reactive section of the periodic table. Bad to pair them together.?
Incidentally both flat heads and straight blades are not recommended for structural applications. Usually sheet metal or light brackets.?
I worked in the nuclear R&D ?industry. I swear they loved specifying exotic stuff just to be exotic¡.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:36 PM pat goodyear < pgoodyear@...> wrote: So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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So here is one for the Titanium boys.? I worked as an instrument technician at a Nuclear Generating plant.? The instrument containers for the nuclear detectors were made of aluminum about 8in in diameter, the top plug was secured with 8 1/4-20 x 1" titanium flathead screws, we replaced them each time we serviced the detectors because using a flat blade screwdriver and hand torque you would snap off the screws if they had been used once.? ?very brittle but hard, and didn't like to be cycled.? ?
pat
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Steve Johnson
Pachyderm
Tool247
OldToolmaker