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Just got down playing a scenario from Sicily IABSM book.
Scenario played fairly and as expected and as was the case historically, the US naval artillery played a key role in breaking up an attack by Tigers, Panzer IV and Panzer III. One thing that bothers me about the effect of Artillery on Tanks. Here is the current rule: 9.3.3??EFFECT ON VEHICLES Vehicles caught in the Kill Zone of any support fire may take some damage.??Roll 1D6 for each vehicle and consult the following tables, adding +1 to the roll if the shells hitting are between 85mm and 110mm, add +1 if they are over 110mm or rockets.? ?Add +1 if an open topped tank or AFV. My main concern with this concept is that it does not take into consideration the armor and weight of the tank.... Tanks were created as way to deal with advancing across open ground while under fire from artillery. In the battle above, I had both a Tiger I crew and Panzer IV crew bail out of their tank when coming under bombardment.? under these rules a Tiger I is just as vulnerable as a Panzer II.? So that is one item that could use some adjustment.? The other issue is that when shock is exceed for the crew inside a tank...they automatically bail out....yes, if you are getting fired on by a tank bailing out is the smart thing to do....when an artillery bombardment happens, that is the last thing that you would do.? In the case of Sicily, especially the massed assault across the open plain towards the Town, the tank crews there simply turned around their tanks and fled. A few were knocked out.? I have more thoughts on this issue but I would like to to hear from others on this.? Thanks |
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hi Dan You could make a scenario rule that tanks will retire off table instead of bailing if they have too much shock. If it worries you about artillery having the same effect on the different tanks, maybe give your tigers a free pass on the first shock from artillery and pz II get an extra one after the second hit.? Rich has always said the rules are a tool box and you can adjust them if you feel the need. Regards Egg?? ? On 23 Aug 2021, at 15:08, Dan <dan.albrecht.vt@...> wrote:
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Hi Dan,
I wouldn’t interpret the rule on tank crews bailing out when caught in a bombardment literally. Section 5.3 on Shock on AFVs is dealing with the majority of cases in the game were AFVs are under direct fire when, as you say, it can make sense for the crew to physically abandon their vehicle when their morale fails. In game terms it’s simpler to apply that same rule to tanks under a barrage rather than create a new mechanism, but I have always rationalised it as the tank crew abandoning their mission and turning tail to withdraw from the table. The effect is broadly the same in that the tank no longer functions. If it suits you better you could simply force the AFV to withdraw at full speed back off table. As to varying the effects of different armour under a bombardment that’s an additional level of chrome you could factor in if you wished to model it. I have just assumed that the rules are an abstraction which can cover anything from a lighter tank being physically destroyed to a heavier one suffering sufficient damage to its optics or other key equipment that it can no longer operate efficiently, all depending on the dice rolled. Works for me. John |
开云体育On 24/08/2021 09:39, John Ewing via
groups.io wrote:
As to varying the effects of different armour under a bombardment that’s an additional level of chrome you could factor in if you wished to model it. I have just assumed that the rules are an abstraction which can cover anything from a lighter tank being physically destroyed to a heavier one suffering sufficient damage to its optics or other key equipment that it can no longer operate efficiently, all depending on the dice rolled. Works for me. Just as an aside. Even the heaviest tanks have less armour on top as they are primarily designed to defeat frontal attacks. IIRC high explosive artillery shells frequently killed tanks: remember the shock wave alone can cause traumatic brain injury, and being inside a tin can, even a big tin can like a Tiger, will be the equivalent on sitting under the hammer of god. My two
pence/cents. YMMV -- Ashley R Pollard ashley@... Enjoy your life. Make it count for something. And do no harm. --------------------------------------- |
开云体育I think we've all seen pictures of tanks including Tigers on their side or upside down. I've always assumed that's a blast effect from large artillery or air attack.
A naval bombardment is really going to ruin your day, even if you are in a tin can.
Doug
Get From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Ashley Pollard <ashley@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 11:07:24 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [TooFatLardies] IABSM, tweaking artillery effects on tanks ?
On 24/08/2021 09:39, John Ewing via groups.io wrote:
As to varying the effects of different armour under a bombardment that’s an additional level of chrome you could factor in if you wished to model it. I have just assumed that the rules are an abstraction which can cover anything from a lighter tank being physically destroyed to a heavier one suffering sufficient damage to its optics or other key equipment that it can no longer operate efficiently, all depending on the dice rolled. Works for me. Just as an aside. Even the heaviest tanks have less armour on top as they are primarily designed to defeat frontal attacks. IIRC high explosive artillery shells frequently killed tanks: remember the shock wave alone can cause traumatic brain injury, and being inside a tin can, even a big tin can like a Tiger, will be the equivalent on sitting under the hammer of god. My two pence/cents. YMMV -- Ashley R Pollard ashley@... Enjoy your life. Make it count for something. And do no harm. --------------------------------------- |
开云体育Tiger I top armour: 25-40 mm. PzII top armour: 10 mm. But don’t let the numbers fool you…when artillery hits your area you wanna leave. Trust me. As in “let’s just get the Hell out. Now!” It is pretty much (as is so often the case) question of Morale. Doug and Ashley speak the truth.? /J Den 24. aug. 2021 kl. 14.08 skrev Doug Melville <dougmelville@...>:
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Points all well taken. I may make a minor tweak depending upon weight of shells of the barrage. i.e. 50mm-60mm = no big deal, 75mm - 100mm = threatening, 100mm - 154mm = really threatening, 155mm + = let's get out of here....
On another note, is it the correct interpretation that an adjusted role of 7 on the above table results in at least 4 shock points.? The 2 shock points noted in the table plus an additional 2 shock points when you "take 2 hit points on the AFV damage table?" |
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I might suggest that the lowest barrage class have no modifiers.? 50-60mm could take out open topped vehicles but tanks were relatively safe. The modifiers are cumulative?? If not then I suggest:
50mm-65mm = No modifier 75mm - 100mm = +1 100mm - 154mm = +2 155mm + =
+3 If cumulative i.e. 155mm gets the +1 for 75-100mm +1 for 100-154mm and +1 for 155mm you get the same result. If you stonk a target, say with a "Mike" target by 25 pdr, where all of the rounds are aimed at the same point you would have one artillery template and add +1 to your die roll.? But because you have 24 guns - 3 batteries - firing you roll 3 dice at +1. If the fire was by a US 105mm Field artillery battalion (3 batteries of 4 howitzers) firing a TOT then one artillery template and add +2 to your die as well as roll 3 dice. If the fire was a US SP M7 battalion with 18 M7 HMC the same as with the Field artillery battalion. Michael Reese |
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The battalion could also fire a pattern equal to XXX or
X X X with each having a +1 but only rolling x1 per targets in the artillery templates. It does cover more ground. British guns in WW2 had 2x4 25pdr gun sections in a battery. The battalion had three of these totalling 24 guns. They could be played as firing a double wide or deep template. In this case I would roll dice for them as 1 level lower so no +1. I don't remember the size of IABSM! artillery templates. Good shooting. In FOW and Spearhead artillery is effective if you put it on a target and leave it there. A lot of players keep switching targets every turn and although lucky once in awhile a steady barrage I find to be more effective. Mike Reese |
Michael Reese