Wanted TT4

#1716

Wanted TinyTrak 4 in good condition.
--
73, Don
W4GCW

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1715

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 10:19 AM, Rob Giuliano wrote:

I am not really sure how the different?

Perfect! Very helpful. Cant wait to try it out.

Ralph
Kc1rwk

Re: Balloon shot down?!

#1714

Maybe not 100% certain, but a close coincidence?

73, Cliff K6CLS CM87

Show quoted text

On February 16, 2023 9:33:30 AM PST, "Kelly K7MHI via groups.io" <kellykeeton@...> wrote:

?gotta ask, anyone see it was possibly an APRS balloon. Recently in the news.?

kelly?

Re: Balloon shot down?!

#1713

I was wondering if that was the case.? Mobile connectivity was

nonexistent last night so I couldn't do any digging.

The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]

WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.

Show quoted text

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, February 16th, 2023 at 09:33, Kelly K7MHI via groups.io <kellykeeton@...> wrote:

?gotta ask, anyone see it was possibly an APRS balloon. Recently in the news.?

kelly?

Balloon shot down?!

#1712

?gotta ask, anyone see it was possibly an APRS balloon. Recently in the news.?

kelly?

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1711

I am not really sure how the different servers/clients keep track of the parameters.?
? ?Best guess is that they keep what they were given, until new data comes along.?
? ?So if you send the messages once, they should be good (for all the stations who receive it).?
? ?Since you are particularly interested in aprs.fi, you will know when the information is set properly.
? ? ? Just check on the callsign >Info >Telemetry

Yes, the Telemetry message is formatted in a specific way to provide 5 analog sensors and 8 "flags" or bits.
? ? Personally, I would send the constants so that the reported values are always in volts.? That way the values are always relevant to the input.
? ? So, depending on what you have TELHIRES, the constants would be:? 5 Volts / 255 bits or 0.0196 or 5 Volts / 999 bits or .005
? ? With TELREAD TRUE (so the first 2 channels are "human Readable"),?the "non-specified" channels would be:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |----Bat-----|-Temp--|--------JP5-------|--------JP4-------|-------JP3-------|
? ? TELHIRES FALSE:? ? ? ? :EQNS.0,0.1,0,0,1,0,0,0.0196,0,0,0.0196,0,0,0.0196,0
? ? TELHIRES TRUE:? ? ? ? ? :EQNS.0,0.1,0,0,1,0,0,0.0005,0,0,0.0005,0,0,0.0005,0
and
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?:PARM.Battery,Temp,V_J5,V_J4,V_J3
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?UNIT.Volts,Deg_F,Volts,Volts,Volts
When undefined analog inputs are reading volts, there is at least some meaning to the value.??
If, at some point later, you cannot a sensor, then the sensor parameters can easily be used to convert to engineering units.
? ?Example:? a atm pressure sensor that provides 250 mBar per volts:? when the channels reads 4 volts, the sensor is at 1000 mBar.

-----
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

Re: Altitude data from TT AIO

Jack Smith KE4LWT

#1710

开云体育

Marc,

?

It actually uses the time delay to guesstimate the altitude, but in order to do that it needs to have confidence in the 2D location. With a view of only a fraction of the sky, say 180 degrees, it’s not going to have that confidence. The more satellites, the better the guesstimate.

?

We also have to remember that the original purpose of GPS was for maritime navigation. That is, 2D was perfect because other than tidal differences, everyone was going to be at roughly the same elevation.?

?

73

Jack KE4LWT

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marc Withasea
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 9:47 PM
To: [email protected] Group Moderators <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TinyTrak] Altitude data from TT AIO

?

Thanks Jack

?

The way I read that is the TT altitude is?+/- 400ft from a topo map elevation.

I interpret that to be a "constant" altitude (an offset deviation from the map).

?

regards

-marc in MI

K8MH

Re: Altitude data from TT AIO

#1709

Marc,

If you are not already doing so, I suggest?turning off the "Power Enable" option. This will keep the GPS on all the time and produce less "wobble". It will of course eat batteries a little faster, but that should not be much of an issue with a one day event. If you have an older AIO that has a red LED on the GPS module, you might want to consider upgrading to the newest generation of GPS receivers ( Blue LED) which offers significant?performance improvement, even with sub-optimal views of the sky.?

73,

Allen AF6OF

Show quoted text

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 6:47 PM Marc Withasea <marc.hutchins@...> wrote:

Thanks Jack

The way I read that is the TT altitude is?+/- 400ft from a topo map elevation.
I interpret that to be a "constant" altitude (an offset deviation from the map).

regards
-marc in MI
K8MH

Re: Altitude data from TT AIO

#1708

Thanks Jack

The way I read that is the TT altitude is?+/- 400ft from a topo map elevation.

I interpret that to be a "constant" altitude (an offset deviation from the map).

regards

-marc in MI

K8MH

Re: Altitude data from TT AIO

Jack Smith KE4LWT

#1707

开云体育

GPS receivers use a system known as SWAG (Scientific Wild-A$Z Guess) to determine altitude. The fewer satellites it can “see”, the more “guess” and less “science”. Garmin has a good description of it here:

?

To get a more stable (but still not accurate) reading, make sure it has as much of a 360 degree field of view as possible.

?

73,

Jack KE4LWT

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Marc Withasea
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 9:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TinyTrak] Altitude data from TT AIO

?

Greetings.

In prep for a foot race, I got the TT AIO out, and verified operation at my house.
I checked the altitude data it was sending out and it was all over the place, considering that the?
TT was sitting motionless in my window (inside my house, exposed to the south, vinyl siding).

There was no pattern to the random altitudes being transmitted.? The position was steady, the altitudes varied about 200 feet if I recall correctly.

Anyone else experience this?? If so is the SOP or is there something that can be done to resolve the unstable altitude?

thanks
-marc in MI
K8MH

Altitude data from TT AIO

#1706

Greetings.

In prep for a foot race, I got the TT AIO out, and verified operation at my house.
I checked the altitude data it was sending out and it was all over the place, considering that the?
TT was sitting motionless in my window (inside my house, exposed to the south, vinyl siding).

There was no pattern to the random altitudes being transmitted.? The position was steady, the altitudes varied about 200 feet if I recall correctly.

Anyone else experience this?? If so is the SOP or is there something that can be done to resolve the unstable altitude?

thanks
-marc in MI
K8MH

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1705

Robert,

Thank you for pointing me to APRS101.pdf -- I've read it once, studied it some but nothing like a real application to make the learning stick. I think I will stick with your option 2 descibed in your first answer and repeated for me as well. One question: sending and APRS message is a manual operation from a terminal -- I'm ok with that but how often does it need to be sent? Just one and done as long as it's received by aprs.fi and associated with our call? and then if the coefficients change or more telemetry is added or we implement your Option 3, send it again to update aprs.fi and anybody else who cares??

Also, is it true that the BTT4BT will send all five analog values and the 8 bit values, even though I'm just using the first two analog values for voltage and temperature? I think that would result in needless data at aprs.fi, but more importantly, meaningless data that would show up. Hmm ... just thinking. You know, I remember that it shows up anyway, but just one (or an empty) data set, so there's already a space for it, just no data records. We'll see what happens.

It will be a few days before I get back to the club's shack to implement the changes, but I'll follow up when I do. Thanks so much for the help and the direction. So I left you with a couple questions ...

Ralph Simons
KC1RWK

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1704

I didn't wee any graphs for W1BST (other than weather data).??As far as I know, there are no sites that will graph data in a status message.? You must send the data as a telemetry message (TPERIOD > 0).? The information displayed in BTEXT or TSTAT (using ^V and ^T) is not conveniently formatted for graphing.? You must use the Telemetry settings to provide the data in the proper format for graphing.? Doing so, the TT4 (or variant) will provide 5 values between 0 and either 999 (TELHIRES TRUE) or 255 (TELHIRES FALSE).? HOWEVER, there is a convenient setting to change the values from normal Analog-to-digital values to "HUMAN READABLE values for Voltage and temperature only.??

Simple Solution/Answer:
? ?TELHIRES FALSE
? ?TELREAD TRUE
The Temperature value will be the integer value and graph properly (second value sent).? The voltage values will be 10 times the actual value read.? So (as the manual's example shows) 12.8V will be graphed as 128.? UNLESS, you provide the EQN information.? ?For information on sending the PARM, UNIT, EQN, and BITS messages, I'll point you to the APRS101.pdf file chapter 13.? But I will add that the messages are sent "TO" the callsign-ssid of the transmitting station (to identify which callsign-ssid the information pertains to).

If you want to use additional signals (like another temperature sensor) connected to the other analog inputs of the MTT4BT, we can go through that in additional posts.? They WILL almost certainly require the EQN be sent to interpret the information in "human readable" format.

-----
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1703
Edited

I'm also working on this, wanting to graph the voltage and temperature telemetry obtained with ^V and ^T. I am using the low resolution setting but otherwise the settings are the same. I'm not at he site now so I can't send the setting list but I was working with it this afternoon and am pretty sure the settings are ok. Also, when I'm working low resolution(TELHIRES is FALSE), can you confirm that I don't have to send equation coefficients. More importantly, where do I put those in--I don't see it described in the TT4 parameter command list. Is it done at aprs.fi? Where is this described?

You can see our data at aprs.fi, filtered on W1BST. We're using an MTT4BT.

Ralph Simons
KC1RWK

Re: telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1702

The key to proper aprs.fi graphing is that you need to send the coefficients and units to describe the data.

You have TELHIRES TRUE, so all values fall between 0 and 999.

You have TELTEMP TRUE and TELVOLT TRUE, so we know those values are being sent in the telemetry packet.

You have TELREAD FALSE, so the values are NOT being sent in the same format as they would be in a status message with ^V and ^T.? I am pretty sure aprs.fi assumes these values are set.

2023-02-10 21:12:34 EST: >SUQV8V,,WIDE2-1,qAR,:'vY0l?<0x1c>#/"4g}BAT=4.0V?Temp=79F
2023-02-10 21:26:23 EST: >APTT4,,WIDE2-1,qAR,:T#000,153,600,999,688,550,00000011

Here is what aprs.fi has:??

Channel 1: 153 (TLM: 153 EQN: 0,1,0)???? this value is actually 0.18 * 999 / 5??? (0.18 is an internal voltage divider)
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? reverse this to 153 / 999 * 5 /0.18 = 4.25V
Channel 2: 600 (TLM: 600 EQN: 0,1,0)???? this value is actually (°C + 273) * 0.51???? (the 0.51 is 255/5V / 100)
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? This sensor is 10 mV per degree K.? So 600/999 * 5 = 3V or 300 deg K
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Or? 27 C or 72.5F??
??????????????????????????????????? NOTE: your change to TTEMPTWK changes this up to your reading
??????????????????????????????????????????????? I am not sure of the impact of this change

Solution 1:??? change TELREAD from FALSE to TRUE

???????????????????? easy fix, but the voltage values will be graphed as 10x their actual value

???????????????????? V=4.0V would be graphed as 40V

???????????????????? T=78 deg would be graphed as 78 degrees (since your DMETRIC FALSE)

Solution 2:?? Provide EQN values for voltage so aprs.fi (and others) will decode the values properly

??????????????????? You can do with along with Solution 1 to graph voltage in decimal value.

??????????????????? So for channel 1 EQN: 0,0.1,0

???? :KN4UNS02:EQNS.0,0.1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0

That is the EASY way.

Option 3: leave TELREAD FALSE and supply the correct EQN for the raw data.

??????????????? For the voltage, the second coefficient for the equation is simply? 999 / 5 / 0.18 or 0.0278.

??????????????? For temperature, it is a bit more complicated because the sensor is in K (C), not R (F)

??????????????? Without showing the math, F = (bits)? * (500/999 * .18) - 459.4? or 0.9 bits - 459.4

??????????????????? 500 is 5.00 V / 0.01 (V/ K)

:KN4UNS02:EQNS.0,0.0278,0,0,0.9,-459.4,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0

I hope this helps!

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO

On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 10:56:29 PM EST, Neal Aguillard via groups.io <aguillardn@...> wrote:

I am using a TT4. I would like to have the battery voltage and temperature displayed graphically. I am able to get the true values to display in the comment section & raw data pagaes on aprs.fi, but can't get it graphed correctly.

These are my TT4 settings:

<Snip>? Extra settings removed

DMETRIC is FALSE

TELHIRES is TRUE

TELREAD is FALSE

TELTEMP is TRUE

TELVOLT is TRUE

TTEMPTWK is 113

TVOLTTWK is 255

Thanks

Neal Aguillard KNRUSN-2

telemetry graph on APRS.FI

#1701

I am using a TT4. I would like to have the battery voltage and temperature displayed graphically. I am able to get the true values to display in the comment section & raw data pagaes on aprs.fi, but can't get it graphed correctly.

These are my TT4 settings:

ABAUD is 19200

ALIAS1 is WIDE1

ALIAS2 is

ALIAS3 is

ALTNET is APTT4

AMODE is TEXT

BANK is 0

BBAUD is 000

BMODE is GPS

BNKMODE is 0

BPERIOD is 0

BTEXT is >/TinyTrak Alpha

CDLEVEL is 20

CDMODE is INVERTED_PIN2

DDIST is FALSE

DEC96 is FALSE

DECSTAT is FALSE

DIGIID is FALSE

DIGIMY is FALSE

DMETRIC is FALSE

DMSDISP is FALSE

DUPETIME is 30

ENTS is FALSE

FILTERCALL is IS

FRAWDISP is FALSE

GALT is 80

GKRELAY is 0

GPSCHK is FALSE

GRELAYBITS is 1

GRELAYRATE is 0

GWAYLEN is 9

GWAYMODE is NMEA

HEADERLN is FALSE

HRAWDISP is FALSE

INTCLK is FALSE

LEDS is TRUE

LOCATION is 3516.8600N 09001.2000W

LRNTPS is FALSE

MICETMV is FALSE

MMSG is 0

MPPERIOD is 0

MSGCAP is FALSE

MSGCMD is FALSE

MTXD is 10

MYCALL is KN4USN-2

NODISP is FALSE

P300 is FALSE

PATH1 is WIDE1-1

PATH2 is WIDE2-2

PATH3 is

PAVPEN is FALSE

PERSIST is 65

PKTICOM is FALSE

PKTOCOM is FALSE

PPATHING is FALSE

PPERIOD is 1800

PREEMPT is FALSE

QUIET is 10

RPATHDISP is FALSE

RXAMP is 12

RXFREQ is 144.390

RXSQUELCH is 0

SBEN is FALSE

SBFPERIOD is 90

SBFSPEED is 60

SBSPERIOD is 1800

SBSSPEED is 5

SBTANGLE is 27

SBTSLOPE is 0

SBTTIME is 0

SLOTTIME is 15

SOFTRST is TRUE

SSIDROUTE is 0

STATUSRATE is 1

TALT is TRUE

TDAO is 0

TELHIRES is TRUE

TELREAD is FALSE

TELTEMP is TRUE

TELVOLT is TRUE

TIMEHMS is TRUE

TIMESTAMP is TRUE

TOSV is FALSE

TPERIOD is 900

TPROTOCOL is MIC-E

TPSWITCH is 0

TRNKMODE is 0

TSOFFSET is 17

TSPEED is TRUE

TSTAT is /TinyTrak Alpha Bat+^V Temp+^T

TSWPT is TRUE

TSYMCODE is #

TSYMTABLE is /

TTEMPTWK is 113

TVOLTTWK is 255

TXD is 40

TXFREQ is 144.390

TXLEVEL is 126

TXTDISP is FALSE

TXTWIST is 50

WPERIOD is 0

WXPOS is FALSE

WYPTXT is FALSE

Thanks

Neal Aguillard KNRUSN-2

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Re: Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

#1700

All's well that ends well. Our MTT4BT is chirping away again nicely at W1BST repeater tower in Ossipee, NH (You can see the weather data on aprs.fi if you filter on our call). It needed a new D6 and a MAX232 interface chip. Allen Lord (vhsproducts@..., allen@...) was very helpful -- multiple email exchanges with lots of good info on the product AND interfacing to the Peet Ultimeter 100 weather station, spare parts, quick turn around and testing, and Priority Mail. Thanks so much, Allen!

I'm enjoying this romance with APRS, a new (to me) technology which is in fact an very mature technology -- just like me, so we're compatible.

Ralph Simons
KC1RWK

Re: Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

#1699

If it worked before it should work again anyway?

I re-did the manual and detailed out the port a and b a little. Might be a good read??

The equipment ultimately was not stable or quality enough for me to use and I went to a digirig and direwolf 100% more functional and useful outside of aprs as well. 1/4 the cost of this end of life gear.?

anyway direwolf is better documented and supported as well.?

there is a link for Davis and Direwolf and unlike the support here where “I don’t have the foggiest how this works” lots of people enjoy helping with direwolf ?

kelly?

Re: Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

#1698

Wow, fantastic response. I was afraid I might be entering a black hole. And thanks,?Kelly K7MHI, for the up-to-date and very clear schematic! Wow, that was a pleasure to read after reading the one in the manual.

Allen AF6OF, thanks so much for your thoughts. Re "high SWR", the unit may have been turned on without the antenna connected, which you specifically speak to in the manual -- before my time. I've had the pleasure last night of interacting with the unit via bluetooth, and since D6 is removed (I removed the charred remains), there was no danger of running the output power at the rated 8 watts. It had enough power to be received by my nearby HT and be decoded by direwolf. I was able to report/transmit weather (no weather input), beacon, telemetry, and position/TSTAT. Beyond that, I don't know if the RS232 is really working (I guess Port A is working since it's receiving/displaying data via the bluetooth hookup. We do have a null? modem, F/F cable and a USB/RS232-male cable (not Byonics) but I haven't tried that on Port B yet. The weather station gets hooked up to Port B, I believe, but I'll take care of that. I think we just set port B to text mode (BMODE TEXT) to receive one of modes from the weather station and the MTT4BT retransmits it, where it eventually gets translated/posted by aprs.fi. APRS.FI doesn't seem to like it when port B (BMODE) is set to PEET. This weather station was procured Jan 2021 so it's recent.? But forget the weather, back to the Micro-Trak ...

All this to say, yes, I'd prefer to have you check it out ("test and evaluate"), but I'd appreciate a cost estimate and estimated turn around, if possible, so I can get authorization from the club leadership. I'll be happy to send you my address/contact info via allen@....

Thanks all for your help!

Ralph Simons
KC1RWK

Re: Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

#1697

Thanks Danny!

Allen AF6OF

Show quoted text

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 4:54 PM Danny Bush <NF4J@...> wrote:

That right there is Excellent Customer Service…

Well done Allen…Well Done!!

73,
Danny NF4J?

Sent using the mobile mail app

On 1/20/23 at 6:39 PM, vhsproducts via wrote:

From: "vhsproducts via " <vhsproducts=[email protected]>
Date: January 20, 2023
To: "ralph@..." <ralph@...>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [TinyTrak] Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

Ralph,

There are lots of diodes in an MTT4BT. Two of them are Schottky polarity protection diodes, including D6. If D6 was burned out, the unit would not have power to the amplifier section, and would have virtually no power output during transmissions. If Diode D6 looks like it has been toasted, it is because the transmitter latched on for an extended period. This is generally due to high SWR causing the unit to lock up. If you have the higher power MTT4BT, the MTT4BT-40, a toasted diode is more likely. If you would like to send me your mailing address offline ( allen@...) I will be happy to send you a bunch of diodes, but it would probably be best for you to send me your unit to test and evaluate.

Yes, we have dropped the MTT4BT and its big brother, the MTT4BT-40. This is due to severe parts shortages, apparently caused by some kind of bug allegedly going around. Or maybe global warming...or bugs...I can't keep it straight anymore. FYI,? there is no 12 Volt Regulator in the MTT4BT, but if you send me your email address, I can probably dig up a clearer copy of the schematic for you. Sadly, what I know about operating a Peet Brothers Wx Station with a TT4-based product can safely be written on a matchbook with a crayon.

73,

Allen AF6OF

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Simons <ralph@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, Jan 20, 2023 2:39 pm
Subject: [TinyTrak] Service advice for MTT4BT PCB version 1.8

Hi folks,

Helping a local ham club (W1BST) troubleshoot their weather station (Peet Brothers Ultimeter 100) hooked to the Byonics MTT4BT. We noticed erratic operation, but programmability is fine. Upon further inspection we found a burned diode. It's labeled D6 on the silk screen, and according to the schematic in the manual (very hard to read/low resolution), I think it feeds the 12 V regulator U6, which I can't find, unless it's under the microassembly near U5, which is labeled. The PCB diagram in the manual is no help, no reference designators and it appears to be the wrong board, or an earlier version.?

Anyway, if I'm reading the manual schematic correctly, I believe D6 and D7 are there to protect from reverse polarity being applied to the inputs, not sure what else.

The failure mode? The unit worked well for over a year. The club recently rewired the shack and was chasing ground loops in the station. At some point in the process we noticed that the MTT4BT only powered up when the unit was grounded through the antenna, whatever that means! Then we noticed the burned diode.

Now my questions:
1. Is there a service contact for these boards? What are the arrangements, costs etc?
2. I see the Byonics web site says they are out of stock on these boards. Is there a similar replacement?
3. Where does one procure SMT diodes? And what would I specify? What is the part number? Are they available from Byonics?

In any case, please confirm that this is a reverse protection diode and could be jumpered out. Also, a good schematic would be helpful.

Thanks all. I've really enjoyed getting to know APRS and this application and look forward to a solution.

Ralph Simons
KC1RWK