Keyboard Shortcuts
Likes
Search
PCB making software, What do you use?
|
I have made pcbs with software but it has been many years since I last used a program.
?I want something that will do surface mount as well as through hole. Fast learning curve is a big plus! ?Also Free! I don't have anything very complex, 2, 3, or 4, transistors maybe later I'll try some SMD ICs. ?What do you recommend. BTW, there used to be programs where you could get 3 pcbs for $xx.00, ?but I'm not finding any hits for those. ?????????????????????????? Mikek |
|
Donald H Locker
开云体育KiCAD. Free, open-source. Incredibly capable; great support crew;
moderate learning curve. Diptrace. I've not used it in years, but it was fairly easy way
back when. I don't know cost; used to be free. Have a look at for some other packages to consider. HTH, On 11/21/22 10:20, Mikek wrote:
I have made pcbs with software but it has been many years since I last used a program. |
|
To add to this, is OK as an online site for PCB design if you want a cloud solution/to collaborate. I prefer KiCAD though as I need to integrate it with FreeCAD for the case design. You can get PCB's made for very little money at PCBWAY.com or JLCPCB.com. The latter has a really nice collection of parts you can use and very cheap surface-mount assembly costs. Kind regards, Marcus On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 15:29, Donald H Locker via <dhlocker=[email protected]> wrote:
|
|
For historical reasons, I use the gEDA suite and it works
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
pretty well. I just made up a VHF amplifier using it and JLCPCB. Using the slower shipping option, it was something around $10 for 5 boards that got delivered in a week. $8 of that was shipping. That's a bargain in my book. The gEDA suite has strong community support, but KiCAD is a bit more mainstream with institutional sponsors. Either is highly capable and free. There's a learning curve with all of these cad programs and the biggest issue is having the physical footprints available for whatever parts you are going to use. You are going to need to be able to make your own footprints in order to make a reasonable board. And, be sure you have the correct footprints before you route the board. Pick a good professional level tool and you only have to learn it once. Pick a hobby level tool that ties you to a single vendor and you're at their mercy. Pick a cloud based service and cry when it disappears. Paul On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 07:20:05AM -0800, Mikek wrote:
I have made pcbs with software but it has been many years since I last used a program. --
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows |
开云体育Hi, ? I use DipTrace. ? They have different purchase options including free. ? I have used lots of Schematic Capture/PCB Layout and Simulation packages over the years and I purchased a full functionality, unlimited pins, Non-profit (Hobby), seat in June 2021 for $375 US. I have created lots of PCBs with it. ? Like most of the other free or low-cost packages out there, it is an easy to learn integrated package with Schematic, PCB Layout, Library Editor, and good Tutorials. It has a large library and includes an interactive 3D modeling of the board with components on it. The 3D Tool can be quite helpful to make sure everything is correct. ? Like all of the other tools out there, each one has its strengths and weaknesses. I will just give my impressions of the tool. I have no affiliation with DipTrace, just a customer. ? ? Schematic Capture Tool The Schematic Capture tool is okay. You have to know what parts you want to use for your design including discrete components like Resistors, Capacitors, Connectors, etc. It expects you to know something about the parts you want to use at the Schematic design. You can’t just add a 10k 1/4W 1206 SMD Resistor or a 0.01uF 50V X7R 0805 Capacitor. You have to select a Resistor, then the package, then the Value. You can go back later and change the characteristics later - I just think it is a little slower and annoying to do that. Be careful, just changing values, you can get bit sometimes. ? The Component Library is arranged by component type (Resistor) > component package (Axial) > Vendor Part Number. You have to look at the Datasheet to select or make sure you have what you want. Which as I mentioned above is a little slow and annoying. ? As warped as I am, I would prefer to put down a 10uF 50V 5x10mm Low ESR Radial Capacitor this way… Capacitor > Value > Type (Low ESR) > Package > Part Number. Even assigning the package later just before or during PCB Layout would be better for me. *** This order may be totally different from what someone else would do. *** ? When you go to the Properties for the Schematic Symbol or Component, it provides a link to their Datasheet database and a Mouser Part Number – if available, (it used to be Digikey – I prefer Mouser), for each component. That helps some. ? ? PCB Layout Tool The PCB Layout Tool is okay. It transitions from the Schematic Capture Tool seamlessly is my experience with it. The Auto-Placement Tool will just stack all components to one side of the board – not very useful at all. I don’t use it. ? It would be nice to have intelligent placement rooms. I just do that outside the PCB border and then move them into the PCB area with the Net lines then place the blocks per Signal Integrity/Power Integrity desires. This is a very common design process. Interconnectix (ICX), was the first tool that I used that was a Signal Integrity Based Router that really worked. Then Mentor bought them out. ? The Auto-Router is about the same as many others. It will allow you to assign some properties to the nets, allows a DO-File, you can group Differential Pairs, etc. I gave it a cursory check and it seem fast enough, although I hand-route my boards. ? The version I purchased allows unlimited layers. The highest layer count I ever worked with Mentor Expedition was 30 Layers before PCB Thickness and Via aspect ratio became a serious problem. I doubt that I will go over twelve for any hobby PCBs I’ll ever do with DipTrace or any tool. ? The Planes Processor works well with DipTrace. It can be poured and removed and seems fast enough. You can assign different Pad sizes and Pad/Route keep-outs easily. Of course, you need to process the planes any time a component is placed once it has already been placed, then a final one before Gerber Translation. I say this because moving components is an easy thing to do and you just need to make sure the planes provide the proper return path for traces. ? ? Library Editor Tool The Library Tool is a little different. The best way I found to use it was to use an existing Symbol/Cell/Footprint, modify it and save it into your own directory within the tool. I had to make a bunch of 74AS Parts once and that was the easiest for me. I did the same thing with an Arduino board too. ? ? The Gerber Import/Export Tool is okay. The Layout Database to Gerber Tool is a little different. You need to follow the Tutorial/on-line content to get it right. ? The Silkscreen Tool works okay, although, I have had problems with all of the text not making it into the Gerbers. You just have to check to make sure it all gets there. ? ? The 3D Tool is okay. As mentioned above the 3D Tool works well. The Print function was a little different but easy to use. ? ? Other Updates are free and they update it often – which is good. No silly “Maintenance Fee” like the Big Boy tools. ? It has good Import / Export functionality. It can import / export just about any smaller layout package products (Altium, OrCAD, Eagle, PADS PCB, P-CAD, KiCAD, Netlists), you would want except the bigger Mentor, Cadence or Zuken products. ? The Tool also helps you order PCBs from a couple of vendors. It gives you Bay Area Circuits and PCBWay for an instant quote and placing the order. I just use PCBWay. I haven’t used it through DipTrace. PCBWay has only had a problem with the Drill Table once – but it lets you know you need to fix it before it lets you order PCBs. ? The Support Staff seems good and the Tutorials/Videos are well written and quick to the point. ? ? Anyway, I like DipTrace and I was glad I decided to purchase it. ? Ross Wellington ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Donald H Locker via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 8:30 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Test Equipment Design & Construction] PCB making software, What do you use? ? KiCAD. Free, open-source. Incredibly capable; great support crew; moderate learning curve. Diptrace. I've not used it in years, but it was fairly easy way back when. I don't know cost; used to be free. Have a look at for some other packages to consider. HTH, On 11/21/22 10:20, Mikek wrote:
|
|
I happen to use EAGLE, because I had (and still do) a hobby license.? That practice ended starting at 8.0 when Autodesk bought the program and the program bought the farm.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Since I detest the idea of "rent a software", I have never upgraded.? Autodesk's suggestion is "go do the subscription program anyway". However, their latest versions only do something on the order of 3in by 4in boards at the max, with a few other limitations that say "NO". You can parse the eagle board file and extract enough information to make an OpenSCAD model of the board, using the preview in OpenSCAD to visualize the board.? You could also print a model of the board (and import it for OpenSCAD designs) for board fit. I've considered using Kicad, but the lack of an autorouter tends to be a bit much.? I'll stick with EAGLE since it's paid for. I've switched board houses from SeeedStudio to JLCPCB because of their price on 4X4 4 layer boards. It's really what you want to use, and if the tools match your needs. Harvey On 11/21/2022 11:02 AM, Paul Amaranth via groups.io wrote:
For historical reasons, I use the gEDA suite and it works |
开云体育On 21/11/2022 21:37, Harvey White wrote:I've considered using Kicad, but the lack of an autorouter tends to be a bit much.? I'll stick with EAGLE since it's paid for. I've switched board houses from SeeedStudio to JLCPCB because of their price on 4X4 4 layer boards.Just curious: why is the lack of an autorouter on a 4x4 board critical? In any event, there is a simple interface to , which is still better than many paid-for autorouters, even though it hasn't been significantly updated in a number of years? The KiCad push'n'shove manual router is now very slick and produces superior results to autorouters if you've got at least some idea what you're doing. --
Regards, Tony |
|
On 11/21/22 15:37, Harvey White wrote:
I've considered using Kicad, but the lack of an autorouter tends to be a bit much.? I'll stick with EAGLE since it's paid for. I've switched board houses from SeeedStudio to JLCPCB because of their price on 4X4 4 layer boards.KiCad integrates reasonably well with the open source FreeRouting auto-router (). You can call it from within KiCad and then import its tracks onto your PCB. It works pretty well, but I've found that I usually end up manually routing so seldom use it. John ---- |
开云体育You could look at ExpressPCB.Very short learning curve. Con is the output is for their pcb house, but, there are converters to gerber available. Glenn On 11/21/2022 10:20 AM, Mikek wrote:
I have made pcbs with software but it has been many years since I last used a program. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417 Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178 QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR "It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class of the Amateur that holds the license" |
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 15:20, Mikek <amdx@...> wrote: I have made pcbs with software but it has been many years since I last used a program. Kicad. Very capable, and you will find plenty of open-hardware projects using the software, so if you want to modify them, you can do. I can't see any justification for using any other software, other than simplicity. But the Kicad tutorial is pretty good. You can be pretty sure that anything you make with Kicad will be usable in future, as its open-source and runs on multiple platforms. Using some closed source Windoze software, and it's anyone's guess where you will be if the? company does not update it and Microsoft break backward compatibility, as they often do. I have over the years used a few packages - Pads, Easy PC, Orcad Another I used I think was EE designer - I could not get on with that. If I was offered a free license for Altium, I would not bother.
Go with Kicad - you will not regret it. Dave |
开云体育On 21/11/2022 20:37, Harvey White
wrote:
I happen to use EAGLE, because I had (and still do) a hobby license.? That practice ended starting at 8.0 when Autodesk bought the program and the program bought the farm. I have used EAGLE since FOREVER and I'm happy that it's now part
of Fusion as I already pay for an F360 licence. I get to use
always up to date fully patched software that works reasonably
well and integrates closely with everything I use. I save the F360
mechanical and PCB projects in portable form in case Autodesk goes
the same way as MySpace, Yahoo or Twitter (or EZNEC, EMECalc and
others as a result of author retirements and deaths.? As I work with beastly computers for the day job, the idea of
having to do anything other than open the software and use it is a
step too far for me. All power to those who use KiCAD and similar,
but I like playing with radios, not computers, so going for the
cloud licence is a no-brainer for me.? You have permission to
laugh at me when Autodesk drops Fusion360 and leaves me in a
hole.? Meantime, I'm getting stuff done and don't have to mess
with software installation, upgrades or interfacing.? I'm also
lucky that I'm on a low-cost tier for F360 as a result of being an
EAGLE user for so long.? I still have some of the earlier versions
of EAGLE, but the F360 Electronics facilities are perfect for my
needs and feel mostly like EAGLE anyway. It's no help to hobbyists or those on very tight budgets or with
Cloud allergies though. --
Neil G4DBN |
开云体育Ah, that you are (already?) a Fusion 360 user and subscriber, and
that you use the rest of the features of Fusion 360 is a plus for
you.? Since I use none of the Fusion 360 programs (and I think,
never did), the situation isn't the same.? For the amount I save in subscription fees, I get my normal
yearly run of PC boards close to free,? I suspect on a yearly
basis.? Fortunately, the "hobby" license that I have for 7.7
allows 4 x 6 boards, which for what I do, is sufficient.? Once I switched PCB houses, I found that JLCPCB's rules allowed
the autorouter to make the boards I designed.? An example is that
with SeeedStudio's rules, I was lucky (at times) to get the
autorouter to run on the Topological router.... and then not
always.? Going to a different set of rules, I found that I had at
least 7 of the standard routing schemes worked, and I did not need
to resort to the topological router.? We won't mention that the 4 layer boards 4x4inch are inexpensive
enough that I get them for 7 dollars for 5.? Lots of different options, and past a certain level of performance, there is no "best" PC board program, I think. Harvey
On 11/21/2022 6:14 PM, Neil Smith G4DBN
via groups.io wrote:
|
|
4 layer board, ground plane, TQFP-100 or 144 processor, TQFP-144 graphics chip and associated memory.? I end up manually routing some of the faster data tracks (33 ohm damping resistors), and the chip power/ground bypass capacitors.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The slower stuff I leave to the autorouter. Harvey On 11/21/2022 5:05 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via groups.io wrote:
On 11/21/22 15:37, Harvey White wrote:I've considered using Kicad, but the lack of an autorouter tends to be a bit much.? I'll stick with EAGLE since it's paid for. I've switched board houses from SeeedStudio to JLCPCB because of their price on 4X4 4 layer boards.KiCad integrates reasonably well with the open source FreeRouting auto-router ().? You can call it from within KiCad and then import its tracks onto your PCB.? It works pretty well, but I've found that I usually end up manually routing so seldom use it. |
开云体育I used to hand route XMega boards with graphics chips.? Been
there, done that.? Too busy messing with software to devote full time for the board
design other than the critical phases.? I'll give Kicad a try eventually.? Just not right now.? Messing with FreeRTOS (which I can well use) and AZURE (which we won't talk about in length, private email will suffice if you want to know sordid details). Harvey
On 11/21/2022 4:48 PM, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
On 21/11/2022 21:37, Harvey White wrote: |
开云体育I started out using Eagle then switched to DipTrace but I am a pensioner and the license fee was a bit steep. The limitations on the free license became a problem (limit to number of wires, vias, and board dimensions) so I moved to Kicad. Kicad was a bit of a learning curve but worth the persistence and
when v6 came out it became a lot easier (at least for me), it is
free and works very well and I have never had a board fail going
to JLCPCB who do a very good job IMHO.? There is a plug-in for
Kicad that wraps all the gerbers into a zip file that is tailored
for several PCB shops (incl JLCPCB) ready to upload which saves a
lot of fiddling. It seems that a lot of people don't like the autorouter that is available as an external tool, but I personally find it pretty good at doing an initial pass and then tweaking the board manually if necessary. Dave
On 21/11/2022 23:56, Harvey White wrote:
|
|
As John correctly says...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
All tools like many other things have a "suck factor". Some people have a higher suck threshold than others. Ross -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 5:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Test Equipment Design & Construction] PCB making software, What do you use? On 11/21/22 18:56, Harvey White wrote: Lots of different options, and past a certain level of performance,My experience has been that all CAD tools suck; they just suck in different ways. John |
|
And the evaluation of that "suck factor" is quite personal.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
1) does it do the job? 2) are you willing to pay ($?) for it 3) are you happy with it? conclusion: It's yours.... <grin> Harvey On 11/21/2022 8:27 PM, si_emi_01 via groups.io wrote:
As John correctly says... |
Leon
Tony Casey
Dr. David Kirkby, Kirkby Microwave Ltd