Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.
Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?
Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).
Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

#17206

You might want to consider something simpler like a Tektronix 604 which is specifically designed for x-y display and has a bit larger screen.

Reinhard Metz

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 11:53:44 AM CDT, Christian Eisert via groups.io <christian.eisert@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.
Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?
Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).
Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

#17207

Thanks, I had thought about that too.

Unfortunately, the 6XX is hard to find here in Germany — and I’m also tempted by the flexibility of using the scope for other tasks as well. That said, if someone has a proper XY display available, I’d definitely be interested in that in addition.

Am 30. April 2025 19:42:43 MESZ schrieb "n49ex via groups.io" <n49ex@...>:

Show quoted text

You might want to consider something simpler like a Tektronix 604 which is specifically designed for x-y display and has a bit larger screen.

Reinhard Metz

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 11:53:44 AM CDT, Christian Eisert via groups.io <christian.eisert@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.

Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?

Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).

Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

#17208

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17209

开云体育

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via groups.io:

Show quoted text

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17210

Christian,

If you want to get a 2465B that have already had the service and maintenance update done to them and in good condition. ?Contact me offline or electronixtoolbox@... as a have a couple of spare units with P6137 probes ?I also have some 2467B models available but I see you’re not interested in that model. ?Im in the USA.?

?

Craig

?

#17211

I've successfully used a 465B for output from an Analog Computer.? ? ?They can be had almost for free, and are very rugged.? ?I would not touch a 2465 esp B for this purpose, unless it was all I had.

I have a 2465B which keeps working like a champ on the bench, never replaced caps, and I don't intend to unless it develops a problem.? Since I don't use it for critical day-to-day measurements, I'd prefer to fix it when it breaks (if it breaks) than to tear it apart just for fun & cap replacement.

Never even had to open up the 465B.? Battleship.? ?Also, it's the Classic 'scope, controls are laid out intelligently.? ?2465/B has tiny controls and buttons - and two 'stunted' channels with limited vertical amplitude settings.? (Not an issue for X-Y, tho).

Good Luck!

p.s.?? ?Short video of the "Snowflake" program running on a pdp-1 and my 456B tapped into DAC X & Y outputs.?

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:07?AM Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17212

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17213

开云体育

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via groups.io:

Show quoted text

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17214

Also, going to the TekWiki site, reading the wiki pages and ?downloading the manuals for any 'scope in which you are interested and perusing the manuals will give you specific information about those 'scopes.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:20 Dave Daniel via <kc0wjn=[email protected]> wrote:

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17215

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17216

开云体育

sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my English skills.

So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the blanking circuit ;).

I just read that on the wiki.

Thank you and best regards
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave Daniel via groups.io:

Show quoted text

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17217

Absolutely no offense taken. It is a legitimate question.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:30 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my English skills.

So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the blanking circuit ;).

I just read that on the wiki.

Thank you and best regards
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17218

开云体育

In the distant past we used Tek 465s (I think) in VHF radar sounding of the Antarctic icecap. The radar return was used to modulate the beam intensity, and the result recorded on slow-moving 35mm film to give the equivalent of an echo-sounder trace.

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

?

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

?

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN
?
?
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :
?
?
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.
?
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.
?
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.
?
Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.
?
I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17219

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 20:09, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Anything 30 years old is likely to need some maintenance! The points I've mentioned are the common pain points, but there are, of course, others. Make sure you see evidence the scope is fully working, preferably with the screen showing the results of the inbuilt self tests. Ignore "powered up but not further tested"!?

Judge for yourself whether someone will pack it competently for shipping.

My preference is for the 24x5, but the A and B variants offer a little more bandwidth, plus some measurements. Personally I don't think either of those is necessary since I can look at the trace and do some simple mental arithmetic.

Do listen to other people's opinions, and match them to your requirements.?

There are many discussions on this mailing list, and on EEVBlog forum.

#17220

开云体育

Just to add that I still own and use a 465. Totally bomb-proof! Cost me pennies on Ebay.

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Meldrum via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

?

In the distant past we used Tek 465s (I think) in VHF radar sounding of the Antarctic icecap. The radar return was used to modulate the beam intensity, and the result recorded on slow-moving 35mm film to give the equivalent of an echo-sounder trace.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

?

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

?

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN
?
?
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :
?
?
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.
?
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.
?
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.
?
Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.
?
I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17221

Generally, an ok idea, but if your "B" has a serial number above
50K abd above, you had best check the surface mount capacitors
aluminum electrolytic capacitors on the A5 (CPU) board.  
The damage they do when they fail, and the originals will always
fail, is hard to clean up, and can destroy the board.

All solder joints in tektronix scopes should be shiny as a mirror.
If they are milky, you have a problem.  If they are milky, and
when you touch them with a soldering iron, they smell like dead
fish, that is capacitor electrolyte.

If your serial number is below 50K, your CPU cards use thru hole
parts, and they, and all the rest of the electrolytic capacitors
tend to fail in harmless ways.

-Chuck Harris


On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 11:25:44 -0700 "Michael Cheponis via groups.io"
<michael.cheponis@...> wrote:
I've successfully used a 465B for output from an Analog Computer.
They can be had almost for free, and are very rugged.   I would not
touch a 2465 esp B for this purpose, unless it was all I had.

I have a 2465B which keeps working like a champ on the bench, never
replaced caps, and I don't intend to unless it develops a problem.
Since I don't use it for critical day-to-day measurements, I'd prefer
to fix it when it breaks (if it breaks) than to tear it apart just
for fun & cap replacement.

Never even had to open up the 465B.  Battleship.   Also, it's the
Classic 'scope, controls are laid out intelligently.   2465/B has
tiny controls and buttons - and two 'stunted' channels with limited
vertical amplitude settings.  (Not an issue for X-Y, tho).

Good Luck!

p.s.

 Short video of the "Snowflake" program running on a pdp-1 and my 456B
tapped into DAC X & Y outputs.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:07?AM Tom Gardner via groups.io <tggzzz=
[email protected]> wrote:



On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via groups.io
<christian.eisert@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a
specific use case:

*Displaying vector graphics in XY mode* from arcade PCBs (Atari
Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean *beam
blanking via the Z input*. I'm also planning to use it for general
CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

*Important to know:*
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by
trade. So *robustness and low maintenance* are my top priorities
(right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just
works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the
electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy
a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires
undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD
electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others
disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e.
anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect
for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and
signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a
logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope,
"invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there
are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since
they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as
a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are
often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17222

The 2465 has a separate blower, which is hard to service, and
will need oil by now.  The squirrel cage needs to be removed
for safety during service, and most don't know how to remove them 
without damaging the collet: Hint, the screw slot is to help you 
NOT turn the shaft when you loosen the nut.  If you turn the slot
like a screw, you are virtually assured to break the collet that
holds the blower to the motor shaft.  Loosen the nut so that it 
covers the shaft's slot, and tap it gently until it releases the
collet from the shaft.

The 2465 uses an EAROM, which does fail, and is not available in
any form new.  Its life is related to the number of times the
EAROM is written.  Mostly, it is only written when you calibrate
the scope, as the front panel settings are all analog pots and
switches that remember their settings by physical positioning, 
unlike the 2465A and B.

The 2465 is a lot smoother operating, as they didn't try to be
super tricky, like they did with the A & B scopes.

-Chuck Harris


On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 21:09:46 +0200 "Christian Eisert via groups.io"
<christian.eisert@...> wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU.
Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have 
NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more 
maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance 
scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like 
the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but
for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?


Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via groups.io:


On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via groups.io 
<> <christian.eisert@...> wrote:

    Hi all,

    I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for
a specific use case:

    *Displaying vector graphics in XY mode* from arcade PCBs (Atari
    Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean *beam
    blanking via the Z input*. I'm also planning to use it for
general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

    *Important to know:*
    I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by
    trade. So *robustness and low maintenance* are my top priorities
    (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just
    works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.


IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the 
electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy
a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires 
undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD
electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others
disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. 
anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect
for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and
signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a
logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, 
"invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there 
are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since 
they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as
a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are
often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

#17223

On Wednesday (04/30/2025 at 10:29PM +0200), Christian Eisert via groups.io wrote:
sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my
English skills.

So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the
blanking circuit ;).

I just read that on the wiki.FWIW, you might want to double check that.  465 has a Z-axis BNC input
on the back panel.

From page 2-8 of the 465B service manual,

    EXT Z-AXIS -- Input bnc connector permits the application of an
    external signal to intensity modulate the crt display.  Does not
    affect display wave-shape.  Signals with fast rise time and fall
    time provide the most abrupt intensity change.  Signals must be
    time-related to the display for a stable presentation on the crt.
    The connector is useful for adding time markers in uncalibrated
    modes of operation.

What isn't clearly defined, that I have yet found, is what voltage levels
you would present to this input to get maximum and minimum intensity.

Chris
-- 
Chris Elmquist

#17224

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 22:07, Chuck Harris via <cfharris=[email protected]> wrote:

The 2465 uses an EAROM, which does fail, and is not available in
any form new.? Its life is related to the number of times the
EAROM is written.? Mostly, it is only written when you calibrate
the scope, as the front panel settings are all analog pots and
switches that remember their settings by physical positioning,
unlike the 2465A and B.

If my EAROM failed, my plan would be to use a small modern MCU to replace it.

I would ignore the 42V(!) logic levels and tap the TTL signals the "other side" of the TTL<->42V converters. The signals are essentially serial, and I reckon I could bit-bash them with carefully written code in the MCU.

No, I won't bother unless and until it is necessary. Yes, I have a video of the test routing scrolling through the 256bytes, and would use that as the starting point.