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Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Two things come to mind. The extremely fast & the extremely slow signals. The time base on the DSA is quicker then then time base on the 7104 so especially for edge work the 7104 gets down to 200ps/div the DSA gets down to 50ps/div so quite a bit more zoom. This is sweeping way faster than the phosphor in a 7104 can react for brightness even with the MCP. Analog seems to top out at 1Ghz I am not aware of anything faster.

We have 110 Ghz of bandwidth in digital. Though that scope is a cool 1.5 Million US.

Zen

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

That's a good summary. One aspect of DSOs that you didn't mention is aliasing.

DaveD
KC0WJN

==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994) ==============================

On Jun 4, 2024, at 22:58, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Perhaps I can help a little, comparing, say a 7904 and a TDS540 (and
leaving out the 7104 series)

Analog scope pros:

even frequency response up past the scope's bandwidth limit, (think
ripple of a sharp cutoff filter)

relatively inexpensive without too terribly many nasty parts (that can vary!).

available in 7000 series with lotsa plugins.

you see everything that happens. Analog scopes never blink.

Analog scope cons:

unless you have a storage scope, absolutely miserable to capture single shot and low rep-rate events.

storing data from the scope can be tricky, but possible.

not the latest technology (matters to some)

no color displays I know of.

Digital scope pros:

excellent for low rep-rate single shot events within limits

indefinite storage

easy to get data from

additional waveform metrics and measurements

"latest technology"

can have color displays.

Digital scope cons:

Internal processor makes them complicated

internal processor may be difficult to upgrade, both hardware and
software

requires a different set of skills to repair.

data not always available to repair. Many parts obsolete or may have a limited lifetime.

innards of scope remain a mystery to most (if was even available).

may not be modularized (a la 7000 series), so may be less versatile if that's needed.

How's that?

Harvey


storage scopes have a limited storage time and a limited writing rate.

On 6/4/2024 9:16 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Eric,
Thank you for the input. I'll likely get both and keep one. The 11401 "doesn't start," which in my experience is more good news than not. If I can repair it and let it go to help with the investment in both, that would be a great path forward.

They seem to be fairly similar units, but what I'm seeing so far is that the DSA is the higher tier unit of the two (or maybe just age?).

I'm still humbly looking for some education on the merits and maybe downsides of digitizing scopes. I've just not considered them this far.
Radu.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 4:45?PM Eric via groups.io <> <ericsp@...> wrote:

Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then
the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz.
Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams
these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but
a huge board and some what tedious.


Just my 2 cents worth.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> <vondicher@...> wrote:

I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an
11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of
11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered
getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance.
But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one
of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A
which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to
upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.
Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

That's a good summary. One aspect of DSOs that you didn't mention is aliasing.

DaveD
KC0WJN

==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================

On Jun 4, 2024, at 22:58, Harvey White via groups.io <madyn@...> wrote:

?Perhaps I can help a little, comparing, say a 7904 and a TDS540 (and leaving out the 7104 series)

Analog scope pros:

even frequency response up past the scope's bandwidth limit, (think ripple of a sharp cutoff filter)

relatively inexpensive without too terribly many nasty parts (that can vary!).

available in 7000 series with lotsa plugins.

you see everything that happens. Analog scopes never blink.

Analog scope cons:

unless you have a storage scope, absolutely miserable to capture single shot and low rep-rate events.

storing data from the scope can be tricky, but possible.

not the latest technology (matters to some)

no color displays I know of.

Digital scope pros:

excellent for low rep-rate single shot events within limits

indefinite storage

easy to get data from

additional waveform metrics and measurements

"latest technology"

can have color displays.

Digital scope cons:

Internal processor makes them complicated

internal processor may be difficult to upgrade, both hardware and software

requires a different set of skills to repair.

data not always available to repair. Many parts obsolete or may have a limited lifetime.

innards of scope remain a mystery to most (if was even available).

may not be modularized (a la 7000 series), so may be less versatile if that's needed.

How's that?

Harvey


storage scopes have a limited storage time and a limited writing rate.

On 6/4/2024 9:16 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Eric,
Thank you for the input. I'll likely get both and keep one. The 11401 "doesn't start," which in my experience is more good news than not. If I can repair it and let it go to help with the investment in both, that would be a great path forward.

They seem to be fairly similar units, but what I'm seeing so far is that the DSA is the higher tier unit of the two (or maybe just age?).

I'm still humbly looking for some education on the merits and maybe downsides of digitizing scopes. I've just not considered them this far.
Radu.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 4:45?PM Eric via groups.io <> <ericsp@...> wrote:

Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then
the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz.
Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams
these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but
a huge board and some what tedious.


Just my 2 cents worth.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> <vondicher@...> wrote:

I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an
11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of
11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered
getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance.
But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one
of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A
which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to
upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.
Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Sampling scopes have a high speed front end (the sampler) and a low speed storage component. The display is built up over a large number of samples over time.
This requires a trigger that is stable and is usually derived separately from the signal being measured.
I have a CSA803 with a number of input modules and at this time only use it for the TDR function to measure impedance of circuit boards and cables/adapters where needed.

A regular high speed (500MHz input or higher) digital scope is much more useful for daily operation.

ed
Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Harvey and all,
I probably did a poor job at explaining what I'm looking for. Which is specifically the differences (pros and cons) between different types of digital scopes - namely between "digitizing" (which I take to be the same as "sampling," but that's not quite accurate?) and the other digital types. So within the overall "digital" category of scopes. Mostly looking for practical impressions, hands-on experience with all these types and how they're different.?

The best I could find is this guideline by Tektronix themselves:?. But still, I'm looking for practical thoughts, coming from actual use in actual?applications.?

One particular characteristic of the sampling scopes seems to be their capacity to work with "much higher frequency components" in incoming signals than the other types. I assume that's why they're capable of viewing, for instance, rising edges in the ps. And yet, those two I'm looking at are limited, I think, to 500MHz (11401) and 1GHz (DSA 602A). Nothing to write home about. It doesn't sound like they're capable of seeing much faster signals than your regular DSO.?

I've used a conventional digital scope for years (the HP 54522A I mentioned). I've also used, rather occasionally in the past few years, either my 7104 or my 7704 analog scopes. This is because it allows me to see things I'd not see otherwise. For instance, they're irreplaceable in work such as aligning FM tuners. I also have a TDS 754D, which, if I manage to fix all faults (halfway there), will probably replace the 54522A as my main scope. So at my bench I currently cover the DSO, DPO, and analog types.?

I have the opportunity to get (and play with, so I'd learn how they're different from my other scopes) those two "digitizing" scopes I mentioned. Again, I assume they are the same as what Tek calls "sampling" in the above article, and fundamentally different from the 54522A or the 754D I have at my bench already. Do I need a "sampling" scope?...

Thank you,
Radu.?

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 7:58?PM Harvey White via <madyn=[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps I can help a little, comparing, say a 7904 and a TDS540 (and
leaving out the 7104 series)

Analog scope pros:

even frequency response up past the scope's bandwidth limit, (think
ripple of a sharp cutoff filter)

relatively inexpensive without too terribly many nasty parts (that can
vary!).

available in 7000 series with lotsa plugins.

you see everything that happens.? Analog scopes never blink.

Analog scope cons:

unless you have a storage scope, absolutely miserable to capture single
shot and low rep-rate events.

storing data from the scope can be tricky, but possible.

not the latest technology (matters to some)

no color displays I know of.

Digital scope pros:

excellent for low rep-rate single shot events within limits

indefinite storage

easy to get data from

additional waveform metrics and measurements

"latest technology"

can have color displays.

Digital scope cons:

Internal processor makes them complicated

internal processor may be difficult to upgrade, both hardware and software

requires a different set of skills to repair.

data not always available to repair.? Many parts obsolete or may have a
limited lifetime.

innards of scope remain a mystery to most (if was even available).

may not be modularized (a la 7000 series), so may be less versatile if
that's needed.

How's that?

Harvey


storage scopes have a limited storage time and a limited writing rate.

On 6/4/2024 9:16 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
> Eric,
> Thank you for the input. I'll likely get both and keep one. The 11401
> "doesn't start," which in my experience is more good news than not. If
> I can repair it and?let it go to?help with the investment in?both,
> that would be a great?path forward.
>
> They seem to be fairly similar units, but what I'm seeing so far is
> that the?DSA is the higher tier unit of the two (or maybe just age?).
>
> I'm still humbly looking for some education?on the merits and maybe
> downsides of digitizing scopes. I've?just not considered them this far.
> Radu.
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 4:45?PM Eric via <>
> <ericsp=[email protected]> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then
>? ? ?the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz.
>? ? ?Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams
>? ? ?these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but
>? ? ?a huge board and some what tedious.
>
>
>? ? ?Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>
>? ? ?On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via
>? ? ?<> <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
>
>? ? ? ? ?I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an
>? ? ? ? ?11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of
>? ? ? ? ?11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered
>? ? ? ? ?getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.
>
>? ? ? ? ?One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance.
>? ? ? ? ?But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one
>? ? ? ? ?of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A
>? ? ? ? ?which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to
>? ? ? ? ?upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.
>
>? ? ? ? ?Thank you!
>? ? ? ? ?Radu.
>
>






Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Perhaps I can help a little, comparing, say a 7904 and a TDS540 (and leaving out the 7104 series)

Analog scope pros:

even frequency response up past the scope's bandwidth limit, (think ripple of a sharp cutoff filter)

relatively inexpensive without too terribly many nasty parts (that can vary!).

available in 7000 series with lotsa plugins.

you see everything that happens.? Analog scopes never blink.

Analog scope cons:

unless you have a storage scope, absolutely miserable to capture single shot and low rep-rate events.

storing data from the scope can be tricky, but possible.

not the latest technology (matters to some)

no color displays I know of.

Digital scope pros:

excellent for low rep-rate single shot events within limits

indefinite storage

easy to get data from

additional waveform metrics and measurements

"latest technology"

can have color displays.

Digital scope cons:

Internal processor makes them complicated

internal processor may be difficult to upgrade, both hardware and software

requires a different set of skills to repair.

data not always available to repair.? Many parts obsolete or may have a limited lifetime.

innards of scope remain a mystery to most (if was even available).

may not be modularized (a la 7000 series), so may be less versatile if that's needed.

How's that?

Harvey


storage scopes have a limited storage time and a limited writing rate.

On 6/4/2024 9:16 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher wrote:
Eric,
Thank you for the input. I'll likely get both and keep one. The 11401 "doesn't start," which in my experience is more good news than not. If I can repair it and?let it go to?help with the investment in?both, that would be a great?path forward.

They seem to be fairly similar units, but what I'm seeing so far is that the?DSA is the higher tier unit of the two (or maybe just age?).

I'm still humbly looking for some education?on the merits and maybe downsides of digitizing scopes. I've?just not considered them this far.
Radu.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 4:45?PM Eric via groups.io <> <ericsp@...> wrote:

Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then
the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz.
Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams
these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but
a huge board and some what tedious.


Just my 2 cents worth.


On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io
<> <vondicher@...> wrote:

I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an
11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of
11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered
getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance.
But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one
of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A
which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to
upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.

Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Eric,
Thank you for the input. I'll likely get both and keep one. The 11401 "doesn't start," which in my experience is more good news than not. If I can repair it and?let it go to?help with the investment in?both, that would be a great?path forward.?

They seem to be fairly similar units, but what I'm seeing so far is that the?DSA is the higher tier unit of the two (or maybe just age?).?

I'm still humbly looking for some education?on the merits and maybe downsides of digitizing scopes. I've?just not considered them this far.?
Radu.?

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 4:45?PM Eric via <ericsp=[email protected]> wrote:
Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz. Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but a huge board and some what tedious.


Just my 2 cents worth.

?

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an 11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of 11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance. But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.?

Re: Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

Bias to the dsa if you can they tend to me MUCH more reliable then the 11,000 series. The 602 is 1 ghz up to 12 channels of 300mhz. Usual fault in the dsas is you might need to resolder the scams these have known issues around the power pins. Not a huge job but a huge board and some what tedious.


Just my 2 cents worth.

?

On Tue, Jun 4, 2024, 9:55 AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an 11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of 11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance. But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.?

Digitizing scopes vs. DSOs, DPOs, etc.?...

 

I have the opportunity to grab, likely very affordably, an 11401 and/or a DSA 602A (the latter coming with a couple of 11A34a and one 11A72 plugs), and I've never - yet - considered getting a digitizing scopes, which I'm not very familiar with.

One feature I am aware of is outstanding risetime performance. But I'd appreciate a bit of education on if/why I'd need one of those at my bench. Where my main scope is an HP 54522A which may soon be replaced with a TDS754D (which I hope to upgrade to 784D), a 7104 analog, a 7704A, 453A, etc.

Thank you!
Radu.?
Re: Added photo album 2465x RIFA madness #photo-notice

 

I don't remember where it came from. The LVPS was repaired and works fine.
I had to replace a few other components damaged by the hot exhaust from the caps (see second picture for some of the collateral damage).

--Victor?
Re: Added photo album 2465x RIFA madness #photo-notice

 

Would that instrument ever been stored in a humid environment?

From what I read elsewhere, the plastic encapsulation of the Rifa cap's over time shrinks and cracks, exposing the internal capacitor to external atmosphere.

Rgds.

Dave B

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
Added photo album 2465x RIFA madness #photo-notice

Group Notification
 

victor.silva <daejon1@...> added the photo album 2465x RIFA madness : RIFA Caps blowing up does occur, even on 120VAC.
Re: 2465A/B Calibration Restoration for A or early B...

 

It was pointed out to me over on eevblog that the "writecal" utility
to restore from EXER 02 cal data does not support the later SMD A5
boards.

I've developed a new version that works with the SMB boards and
uploaded it here:

? /g/TekScopes2/files/24xxAB-writecal-1.1.zip

As before, included is a README with instructions and the source.

Special thanks to Chuck for testing on his later model 2465B, and with
many different EPROM types and manufacturers.

-mark
Re: Tektronix TDS754D - failing acquisition module tests

 

Dear Radu:

About the SMD caps my experience was with 2465B scopes, I had only one TEK digital, TDS540 so no personal knowlege re the SMD cap leakage on yours.

About soldering and desoldering difficulet PCBs, yes TEK had some 4..6 layer PCB with VERY tight or overplated thru holes and pads.

We use ONLY 63/37 or 60/40 LEADED solder, best diameter is 0.032" or 0.81 mm.

Kester 44 OR rosin core flux.

We use our Metcal SP-200 high frequency smart heat solder station (my design 1992)

Suggest to BEWARE ANY EBAY/ALIXPRESSS solder, wire etc.

Bon chance,

Jon
Re: Tektronix TDS754D - failing acquisition module tests

 

Jon,
Thank you for pitching in. It's been a bit of a trek this far already! After more observation, I am pretty sure the work involving replacing the four SRAMs has not been in vain, the number of errors has decreased.?

In fact, there's just one now popping during the acquisition diagnostics:
"ERROR: diagnostic test failure, digDataFormatDiag, ?ERROR!!BYTE mode, in demux 200 ,i= 7 memBaseAdr 0x7380010= ?data = 800, expectedData = 5500"

I've not done this before, but doing an SPC and I get this:
"ERROR: Internal adjustment range exceeded, ( 3 @ ? 7464): DIGc gain = -0.400113, bal = 1.113079"

I think this is a model that's known to not be inflicted with the SMD lytics?disease. For pics, please see the album posted earlier in the thread (/g/TekScopes2/album?id=293963).?

I am becoming suspicious of the input hybrids, but there's still a solid chance the U200 stages (which may serve CH3?...) are defective somehow. Maybe other SRAMs in the 2xx module have cooked (due to heat from U200).?

Progress, but still not quite there.?

Thank you,
Radu.?

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 11:33?PM Froggie the Gremlin via <jonpaul=[email protected]> wrote:

suspect corroded PCB internal traces due to leaky SMD lytic.

Post pix of entire PCB and closeup of SMD lytics for more ideas.

Jon





Re: Tektronix TDS754D - failing acquisition module tests

 

suspect corroded PCB internal traces due to leaky SMD lytic.

Post pix of entire PCB and closeup of SMD lytics for more ideas.

Jon
2 photos uploaded #photo-notice

Group Notification
 

The following photos have been uploaded to the TDS754D - repair images photo album of the [email protected] group.

By: Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...>

Re: Tektronix TDS754D - failing acquisition module tests

 

After a gallon of sweat and a sharp back ache, I think I'm done. I'm also pretty?happy with my solder joints - I am pretty sure they are all doing their job. I had a few bridges - not surprising?given this is my first foray into SOJ rework and the number of chips replaced - but I've examined all this with a (couple of) magnifier(s) and I think it's as good as it needs to be.?

After this, I see different errors, but my acquisition board is still failing (see dated picture with errors at /g/TekScopes2/album?id=293963). It looks like the failure is no longer associated with one of those four ICs (though maybe I just need to run diagnostics more to obtain that result), but still localized to the stages associated with demux U200.?

Back to the drawing board. Any recommendation for a path forward is welcome.?

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 11:17?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
I've removed the old 207, 208, 214, and 216 chips, and am trying to replace them with used, but tested chips from a helpful EEVBlog member. I am seeing a lot of resistance to their pins accepting my leaded .3mm solder. I've cleaned the pads of old solder and applied generously flux with a syringe, so I expect the solder to just capillary seep under the SOJ legs and on the pad. Something feels off, I don't think I should find it so hard to solder these SOJs on the acquisition board. I tried using both a conical (very sharp and long) and thin chisel tips to no avail.?
  • I didn't think so, but does this use lead-free solder, and my using leaded solder makes this happen?
  • Or maybe I should just not use old chips (very clean looking, with clean pins etc., btw) and splurge to get new ones from one of the retailers??
I am afraid at this?point I start risking the board due to my persistence, and I need to investigate if I'm doing something wrong.
Thank you for your input.
Radu.?

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 10:24?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
David,
I don't really know, but per this:? this one may not be one of those inflicted with this issue.?

Besides, here are some pictures of the acquisition board: /g/TekScopes2/album?id=293963. Upon?a?first rather cursory?examination, I don't see anything leaky. Of course, this is a double sided board, so maybe all that may be on the other side of it. I'll seek to remove A10 Acquisition and examine the underside too.

If all that checks out, I'm considering replacing U207, 208, 214, and 216. They are 71024S12TYs (I think these should work:?).?

Has anyone replaced one?of these? I have a Pace TT-65 which will need for this job some tips I don't have, but I think that's my best?bet for executing this with as little aggravation as possible.?

I welcome any thoughts on whether this is a conducive way forward, or maybe I should be looking at other?things first.?

Thank you,
Radu.?

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 8:57?AM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:
I believe that is one that needs all the capacities replaced on the Acq board and damaged traces repaired from the leaking electrolyte.

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 3:16?PM Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I got this scope in non-working condition due to failures of the A10 module (acquisition board). First time I turned it on, it ran and failed its startup tests. Since then, though, it'd start successfully and only fail full tests if ran deliberately (of course) - I think this is because this has been sitting for a long time and I gave it a bit of a run and that's been baking for it and reforming caps and so on, so a good thing.

Always, the failure is apparently associated with the acquisition board. I don't recall if the forum allows image attachments to emails, but if it does, I'll send some logs and reports shortly.?

The failure seems to be associated with different ICs on this board every time I run them. Not sure if that can be interpreted conducively in any way.?

Thank you for your input in advance!
Radu.?

Re: Tektronix TDS754D - failing acquisition module tests

 

I've removed the old 207, 208, 214, and 216 chips, and am trying to replace them with used, but tested chips from a helpful EEVBlog member. I am seeing a lot of resistance to their pins accepting my leaded .3mm solder. I've cleaned the pads of old solder and applied generously flux with a syringe, so I expect the solder to just capillary seep under the SOJ legs and on the pad. Something feels off, I don't think I should find it so hard to solder these SOJs on the acquisition board. I tried using both a conical (very sharp and long) and thin chisel tips to no avail.?
  • I didn't think so, but does this use lead-free solder, and my using leaded solder makes this happen?
  • Or maybe I should just not use old chips (very clean looking, with clean pins etc., btw) and splurge to get new ones from one of the retailers??
I am afraid at this?point I start risking the board due to my persistence, and I need to investigate if I'm doing something wrong.
Thank you for your input.
Radu.?

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 10:24?AM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher=[email protected]> wrote:
David,
I don't really know, but per this:? this one may not be one of those inflicted with this issue.?

Besides, here are some pictures of the acquisition board: /g/TekScopes2/album?id=293963. Upon?a?first rather cursory?examination, I don't see anything leaky. Of course, this is a double sided board, so maybe all that may be on the other side of it. I'll seek to remove A10 Acquisition and examine the underside too.

If all that checks out, I'm considering replacing U207, 208, 214, and 216. They are 71024S12TYs (I think these should work:?).?

Has anyone replaced one?of these? I have a Pace TT-65 which will need for this job some tips I don't have, but I think that's my best?bet for executing this with as little aggravation as possible.?

I welcome any thoughts on whether this is a conducive way forward, or maybe I should be looking at other?things first.?

Thank you,
Radu.?

On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 8:57?AM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:
I believe that is one that needs all the capacities replaced on the Acq board and damaged traces repaired from the leaking electrolyte.

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 3:16?PM Radu Bogdan Dicher <vondicher@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I got this scope in non-working condition due to failures of the A10 module (acquisition board). First time I turned it on, it ran and failed its startup tests. Since then, though, it'd start successfully and only fail full tests if ran deliberately (of course) - I think this is because this has been sitting for a long time and I gave it a bit of a run and that's been baking for it and reforming caps and so on, so a good thing.

Always, the failure is apparently associated with the acquisition board. I don't recall if the forum allows image attachments to emails, but if it does, I'll send some logs and reports shortly.?

The failure seems to be associated with different ICs on this board every time I run them. Not sure if that can be interpreted conducively in any way.?

Thank you for your input in advance!
Radu.?

Re: 7623A vertical signal output

 

Mike fine memories and work.

See the patents and topologies of Cuk ad Midddlebrook in the IEEE power electronics and PESC, APEC etc.

Was at CCNY, unfamiliar with your school.

Enjoy,

Jon
Re: 7623A vertical signal output

 

Hi Jon,
? ?I have a copy of Dean Venables book: "Stability Analysis Made Simple".? I bought that for $30 back in the Mid 1980's.? Retired for several years now, this work is just as a hobbyist.? I do still teach on online class in first year physics for New York Empire State University.? If I win the lottery I will look at a Solatron 1250 or similar.? Otherwise, I am on an Ebay budget.? I see Venable equipment for sale but usually as "parts only".??
Having been burned before on Ebay I avoid that class of equipment.? My 7623A will work as long as I keep both channels on the same scale.? Using different scales is going to require a lot of thought (I was hoping to avoid that - lol).? Have a great day.
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