Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 20:09, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Anything 30 years old is likely to need some maintenance! The points I've mentioned are the common pain points, but there are, of course, others. Make sure you see evidence the scope is fully working, preferably with the screen showing the results of the inbuilt self tests. Ignore "powered up but not further tested"!?

Judge for yourself whether someone will pack it competently for shipping.

My preference is for the 24x5, but the A and B variants offer a little more bandwidth, plus some measurements. Personally I don't think either of those is necessary since I can look at the trace and do some simple mental arithmetic.

Do listen to other people's opinions, and match them to your requirements.?

There are many discussions on this mailing list, and on EEVBlog forum.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17218

开云体育

In the distant past we used Tek 465s (I think) in VHF radar sounding of the Antarctic icecap. The radar return was used to modulate the beam intensity, and the result recorded on slow-moving 35mm film to give the equivalent of an echo-sounder trace.

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

?

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

?

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN
?
?
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :
?
?
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.
?
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.
?
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.
?
Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.
?
I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17217

Absolutely no offense taken. It is a legitimate question.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:30 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my English skills.

So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the blanking circuit ;).

I just read that on the wiki.

Thank you and best regards
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17216

开云体育

sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my English skills.

So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the blanking circuit ;).

I just read that on the wiki.

Thank you and best regards
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave Daniel via groups.io:

Show quoted text

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17215

I don't know.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17214

Also, going to the TekWiki site, reading the wiki pages and ?downloading the manuals for any 'scope in which you are interested and perusing the manuals will give you specific information about those 'scopes.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:20 Dave Daniel via <kc0wjn=[email protected]> wrote:

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17213

开云体育

Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?

Bests
Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via groups.io:

Show quoted text

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17212

I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.

DaveD
KC0WJN

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17211

I've successfully used a 465B for output from an Analog Computer.? ? ?They can be had almost for free, and are very rugged.? ?I would not touch a 2465 esp B for this purpose, unless it was all I had.

I have a 2465B which keeps working like a champ on the bench, never replaced caps, and I don't intend to unless it develops a problem.? Since I don't use it for critical day-to-day measurements, I'd prefer to fix it when it breaks (if it breaks) than to tear it apart just for fun & cap replacement.

Never even had to open up the 465B.? Battleship.? ?Also, it's the Classic 'scope, controls are laid out intelligently.? ?2465/B has tiny controls and buttons - and two 'stunted' channels with limited vertical amplitude settings.? (Not an issue for X-Y, tho).

Good Luck!

p.s.?? ?Short video of the "Snowflake" program running on a pdp-1 and my 456B tapped into DAC X & Y outputs.?

Show quoted text

On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:07?AM Tom Gardner via <tggzzz=[email protected]> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17210

Christian,

If you want to get a 2465B that have already had the service and maintenance update done to them and in good condition. ?Contact me offline or electronixtoolbox@... as a have a couple of spare units with P6137 probes ?I also have some 2467B models available but I see you’re not interested in that model. ?Im in the USA.?

?

Craig

?

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17209

开云体育

Thanks for your comments! :-)

So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough — that’s the kind of work I’m used to and can handle.

If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don’t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?

So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?

Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech — but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?

Christian

Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via groups.io:

Show quoted text

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17208

On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that.

24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.

24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree.

Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic.

Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser.

Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts.

I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17207

Thanks, I had thought about that too.

Unfortunately, the 6XX is hard to find here in Germany — and I’m also tempted by the flexibility of using the scope for other tasks as well. That said, if someone has a proper XY display available, I’d definitely be interested in that in addition.

Am 30. April 2025 19:42:43 MESZ schrieb "n49ex via groups.io" <n49ex@...>:

Show quoted text

You might want to consider something simpler like a Tektronix 604 which is specifically designed for x-y display and has a bit larger screen.

Reinhard Metz

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 11:53:44 AM CDT, Christian Eisert via groups.io <christian.eisert@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.

Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?

Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).

Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17206

You might want to consider something simpler like a Tektronix 604 which is specifically designed for x-y display and has a bit larger screen.

Reinhard Metz

On Wednesday, April 30, 2025 at 11:53:44 AM CDT, Christian Eisert via groups.io <christian.eisert@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.
Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?
Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).
Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B – or other suggestions?

#17205

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case:

Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) – ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.

I'm trying to find the “sweet spot” – the best break-even point between technical capability, reliability, and low maintenance. I know these scopes are way overkill for my use case, but I have a soft spot for well-engineered, high-end analog gear from that era.

Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer – I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I’d prefer something that just works and doesn’t immediately turn into a restoration project.

My key criteria:

Z input with true beam blanking
→ Not just brightness control – I need actual blanking to avoid ghost lines between vector points.
Low maintenance, long-term reliability
→ I’m leaning toward models without battery-backed NVRAM (e.g., EAROM in the 2465).
However, I’ve read that there are now precalibrated NVRAM replacements without batteries.
→ What's your take? Is the newer 2465B (with NVRAM) still the better choice long-term – or is the older but potentially more robust 2465 a safer bet?
Good CRT (brightness and focus)
→ I don’t need MCP – in XY mode, I prefer full screen size over extra brightness (so 2467B might be a step in the wrong direction for me).
Technical condition over bandwidth
→ Anything in the 100–300?MHz range is more than enough. I'd rather have a stable, well-maintained unit than an ultra-fast one on paper.

Right now I’m deciding between the 2465 and 2465B, but I’m open to other suggestions from the late 22xx or 24xx series.

Also: if anyone here happens to have a suitable unit available – I’m definitely open to offers.
I’m located in Germany, but happy to discuss shipping if needed.

Thanks in advance for any insights or recommendations!

Best regards,
Christian

The Minisert is re-born - at least in concept

#17204

开云体育

<https://www.mill-max.com/products/new/zero-profile-press-fit-receptacles>

?

Cheers, David

?

Re: 2465B - Replaced RIFAs and now won't POST

#17203

开云体育

Hi? When I was 16, (74 years ago ) I worked on a US schematic to build a power amplifier,? 2 feedback capacitors electrlytics were designed in wrong polarity . connected between the tubes plates ..400 V and? cathodes close to ground. It did work some time, but eventually there was an explosion... And the amp cease working.? Just because the cap of the electrolytic was thrown away and its connecting wire short circuited the Hi Volt to ground..

Do not try to connect lmytics inverted...!

Jean? L? C? Ruelle

De :[email protected] <[email protected]> de la part de Craig Cramb via groups.io <electronixtoolbox@...>
Envoyé :?lundi 21 avril 2025 13:14
? :[email protected] <[email protected]>
Objet :?Re: [TekScopes2] 2465B - Replaced RIFAs and now won't POST

?

Bobert29,
My thought is you need to check the plug connectors on the side of the A2A1 board J121 and J122 as you might be one pin off from connector to board.? These plug connectors are not easy to see when plugging connector to the board.

Craig

Re: 2465B - Replaced RIFAs and now won't POST

#17202

Bobert29,
My thought is you need to check the plug connectors on the side of the A2A1 board J121 and J122 as you might be one pin off from connector to board.  These plug connectors are not easy to see when plugging connector to the board. 

Craig

Re: 2465B - Replaced RIFAs and now won't POST

#17201

Have you worked on one of these before??

?

ISTR that there's a misprint on the silk screen showing a supply filter cap in the wrong orientation...

I know someone who recapped his 2445B and it didn't work after that - I have it in my stack of things to fix... Quite likely a problem with a board interconnect...

?

...which reminds me: The 2465B PSU has fragile interconnecting pins - Are they all ok??

?

2465B - Replaced RIFAs and now won't POST

#17200

2465B
s/n 57xxx

When I first powered it up, the lights would all come on for a split second, then they would go out, then it would cycle through the self-tests, failing at TEST 05, so I cleaned up the A5 corrosion and replaced a few components there. I also replaced the RIFAs on the power supply.

Following that, when I turn it on, the lights all come on, but they don't go out.

All J119 points are well within spec. I am a little confused at times when following the service manual, for example the troubleshooting procedure said TP201 should be +10v, but the schematic seems to indicate it should be +5v, which is what I'm getting.
I'm not sure how to proceed at this point. I'd like to go as far as possible before I am forced to buy a new oscilloscope to repair this one.

Thanks