Re: identifying this Tektronix board
The layout and connector reminds me of the TM5000 series plugins - but it looks a bit bare - presumably it's for a relatively simple plugin - you could examine some service manuals for - I looked inside my FG5010 - that board runs right to the front of the plugin to interface with the rest of the gubbins and homes a CPU with support logic and ROMs... I only have one other type of plugin for the TM5000 series... Though the connector is the same, the DIP switch bank on my FG5010 is below the connector and only has 6 switches - so that could be a bit cramped.
I think that some 11000 series plugins had GPIB but I don't know them...
|
identifying this Tektronix board
While going through another crate of Tektronix gear I came across this board, which has the legends "GPIB", "TEK T1", and "R-0291-XB". ?My google fu might be weak but I can't find any hint to the board's use or origin.?
?
Anyone recognize it?
?
Here's a link to the photo: ?https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7g8yxs2uy8vssnegli0ka/K7WXW-GPIB.jpeg?rlkey=q8333no7z0l761n7jpk6kwcht&dl=0
?
Thanks - Bill
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Maybe not the best opinion on a tek group, but i would say some of the older HP scopes had better tubes, probably more like you'd see on an arcade machine.?
Tektronix are great as scope, triggering and so on, but the crt was never as nice or fine as some others, like HP.?
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Christian,
If your XY needs are fairly high frequency, be aware that the delay in the X and Y is unequal.? About 50 years ago I had to add relays to a 465 to bypass the vertical delay line in XY mode to allow a fast XY character generator to be viewed properly.
--John Gord
?
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
After following this discussion somewhat, and considering the application, I'd suggest going toward a relatively simple scope like the 465 already mentioned, or maybe a more modern 2200 series unit. These were very high volume lines so there should be plenty out there for a long time, and readily available. I don't see any magical Z-axis requirements - unless I missed something, I think all you need is one with DC-coupled Z-axis to assure full cutoff at any data rate. AFAIK all "modern" analog scopes have this capability (if they have Z-axis input), so it should be no big deal. I also see no need for readout or high bandwidth or multi-channels or programmability or storage, just the basic XY display feature which should be common. Get something without tubes or a microprocessor and enjoy the simplicity of that sweet spot from the good old days.
?
Ed
|
Hi there,
?
I have fallen heir to a Tektronix 453 scope.? From appearances it appears to be fairly clean and complete - with one exception: The rear cover is missing, which exposes the back end of the CRT, the fan and other goodies.?
?
Might any of you have the back cover from a 453 that could be purchased?? If it would help I can send a picture of what I don't have, or better put - a picture of the back end where the cover is supposed to go so you can hopefully see what's missing.
?
Thanks,
?
Burt, K6OQK
|
Chris Elmquist <chrise@...> added the photo album
465B pack panel
: wanted to show the connectors and labeling on the back panel of a 465B, specifically to get the specifications for the Z-axis input
The following photos have been
uploaded to the
465B pack panel
photo album of the [email protected] group.
By:
Chris Elmquist <chrise@...>
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Actually, the EAROM on the 2465 does get written on a fairly regular basis to store front panel settings.? Not everything is an absolute physical position that can be read back.? Examples: cursors on/off, cursor position, slope.
?
When a setting is changed that needs to be stored, the scope waits for 10 seconds and then writes the new setting.? If anything else is changed that needs to be stored while waiting, the delay counter is reset.? This works fine except for the edge case where you change something and then turn off the scope in less than 10 seconds.
?
But fully agreed - much more straightforward than the A and B.
?
-mark
?
?
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 05:07 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:
...
The 2465 uses an EAROM, which does fail, and is not available in
any form new. Its life is related to the number of times the
EAROM is written. Mostly, it is only written when you calibrate
the scope, as the front panel settings are all analog pots and
switches that remember their settings by physical positioning,
unlike the 2465A and B.
The 2465 is a lot smoother operating, as they didn't try to be
super tricky, like they did with the A & B scopes.
-Chuck Harris
...
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
I took a photo of the back of my 465B and uploaded to the group Photos
section. Shows the Z-axis input and the voltage requirements to control
intensity labeled at the connector.
Chris
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wednesday (04/30/2025 at 04:08PM -0500), Chris Elmquist wrote: On Wednesday (04/30/2025 at 10:29PM +0200), Christian Eisert via groups.io wrote:
sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my
English skills.
So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the
blanking circuit ;).
I just read that on the wiki. FWIW, you might want to double check that. 465 has a Z-axis BNC input
on the back panel.
From page 2-8 of the 465B service manual,
EXT Z-AXIS -- Input bnc connector permits the application of an
external signal to intensity modulate the crt display. Does not
affect display wave-shape. Signals with fast rise time and fall
time provide the most abrupt intensity change. Signals must be
time-related to the display for a stable presentation on the crt.
The connector is useful for adding time markers in uncalibrated
modes of operation.
What isn't clearly defined, that I have yet found, is what voltage levels
you would present to this input to get maximum and minimum intensity.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
--
Chris Elmquist
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
I have a 2465 for 33 years now and it continues to function with no issues. ?It came with the counter/timer option, and later I added the word recognizer and GPIB options.
?
I've never re-capped it, although admittedly I should probably replace the RIFA caps since they are a known frequent point of failure. ?I would leave all the other caps alone, unless they are proven to be bad through troubleshooting, direct testing, or visual inspection. ?There are power supply ripple specifications in the service manual which you can check.
?
Mine does not have the finicky (and usually noisy) squirrel-cage fan. ?As of serial number B050100, according to the service manual, Tektronix replaced it with a regular axial fan. ?I have serial number B030999, so I am not sure the manual is right here, or perhaps I have some strange Frankenstein version that was modified before my ownership. ?All boards are thru-hole.
?
I think it is possible to tell if a unit has an axial fan because the back cover is different. ?The axial fan units will have ventilation slots for the entire distance to the left of the plug, and the squirrel-cage fan will only have about an inch worth of slots on the bottom left of the plug. ?Take a look at some photos on ebay.
?
As you say, it has an EAROM and no battery to go dead. ?There is also no such thing as a "pre-calibrated" NVRAM for the A or B models. ?The NVRAM contains calibration constants for a specific serial number (i.e., a specific set of all the components). ?When you use someone else's calibration constants, it might be close, but your scope is definitely not calibrated.
?
I've used my 2465 with an HP 1607A logic analyzer. ?The 1607A connected to the X, Y, and Z inputs on the 2465 and drew the captured data as literal 1's and 0's on the scope's screen, properly blanked. ?So I know the Z input works correctly.
?
-mark
?
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
The 2465 uses an EAROM, which does fail, and is not available in
any form new.? Its life is related to the number of times the
EAROM is written.? Mostly, it is only written when you calibrate
the scope, as the front panel settings are all analog pots and
switches that remember their settings by physical positioning,
unlike the 2465A and B.
If my EAROM failed, my plan would be to use a small modern MCU to replace it.
I would ignore the 42V(!) logic levels and tap the TTL signals the "other side" of the TTL<->42V converters. The signals are essentially serial, and I reckon I could bit-bash them with carefully written code in the MCU.
No, I won't bother unless and until it is necessary. Yes, I have a video of the test routing scrolling through the 256bytes, and would use that as the starting point.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
On Wednesday (04/30/2025 at 10:29PM +0200), Christian Eisert via groups.io wrote: sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do with my
English skills.
So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original criterion with the
blanking circuit ;).
I just read that on the wiki. FWIW, you might want to double check that. 465 has a Z-axis BNC input on the back panel. From page 2-8 of the 465B service manual, EXT Z-AXIS -- Input bnc connector permits the application of an external signal to intensity modulate the crt display. Does not affect display wave-shape. Signals with fast rise time and fall time provide the most abrupt intensity change. Signals must be time-related to the display for a stable presentation on the crt. The connector is useful for adding time markers in uncalibrated modes of operation. What isn't clearly defined, that I have yet found, is what voltage levels you would present to this input to get maximum and minimum intensity. Chris -- Chris Elmquist
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
The 2465 has a separate blower, which is hard to service, and will need oil by now. The squirrel cage needs to be removed for safety during service, and most don't know how to remove them without damaging the collet: Hint, the screw slot is to help you NOT turn the shaft when you loosen the nut. If you turn the slot like a screw, you are virtually assured to break the collet that holds the blower to the motor shaft. Loosen the nut so that it covers the shaft's slot, and tap it gently until it releases the collet from the shaft. The 2465 uses an EAROM, which does fail, and is not available in any form new. Its life is related to the number of times the EAROM is written. Mostly, it is only written when you calibrate the scope, as the front panel settings are all analog pots and switches that remember their settings by physical positioning, unlike the 2465A and B. The 2465 is a lot smoother operating, as they didn't try to be super tricky, like they did with the A & B scopes. -Chuck Harris On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 21:09:46 +0200 "Christian Eisert via groups.io" <christian.eisert@...> wrote: Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU.
Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don¡¯t have
NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more
maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance
scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like
the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but
for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via groups.io:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via groups.io
<> <christian.eisert@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for
a specific use case:
*Displaying vector graphics in XY mode* from arcade PCBs (Atari
Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) ¨C ideally with clean *beam
blanking via the Z input*. I'm also planning to use it for
general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
*Important to know:*
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C I'm a computer scientist by
trade. So *robustness and low maintenance* are my top priorities
(right after a proper Z input). I¡¯d prefer something that just
works and doesn¡¯t immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the
electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy
a kit of parts for that.
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires
undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD
electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others
disagree.
Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e.
anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect
for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and
signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a
logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope,
"invent" waveform artefacts.
I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there
are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since
they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as
a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are
often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Generally, an ok idea, but if your "B" has a serial number above 50K abd above, you had best check the surface mount capacitors aluminum electrolytic capacitors on the A5 (CPU) board. The damage they do when they fail, and the originals will always fail, is hard to clean up, and can destroy the board. All solder joints in tektronix scopes should be shiny as a mirror. If they are milky, you have a problem. If they are milky, and when you touch them with a soldering iron, they smell like dead fish, that is capacitor electrolyte. If your serial number is below 50K, your CPU cards use thru hole parts, and they, and all the rest of the electrolytic capacitors tend to fail in harmless ways. -Chuck Harris On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 11:25:44 -0700 "Michael Cheponis via groups.io" <michael.cheponis@...> wrote: I've successfully used a 465B for output from an Analog Computer.
They can be had almost for free, and are very rugged. I would not
touch a 2465 esp B for this purpose, unless it was all I had.
I have a 2465B which keeps working like a champ on the bench, never
replaced caps, and I don't intend to unless it develops a problem.
Since I don't use it for critical day-to-day measurements, I'd prefer
to fix it when it breaks (if it breaks) than to tear it apart just
for fun & cap replacement.
Never even had to open up the 465B. Battleship. Also, it's the
Classic 'scope, controls are laid out intelligently. 2465/B has
tiny controls and buttons - and two 'stunted' channels with limited
vertical amplitude settings. (Not an issue for X-Y, tho).
Good Luck!
p.s.
Short video of the "Snowflake" program running on a pdp-1 and my 456B
tapped into DAC X & Y outputs.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 11:07?AM Tom Gardner via groups.io <tggzzz=
[email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via groups.io
<christian.eisert@...> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a
specific use case:
*Displaying vector graphics in XY mode* from arcade PCBs (Atari
Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) ¨C ideally with clean *beam
blanking via the Z input*. I'm also planning to use it for general
CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics.
*Important to know:*
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C I'm a computer scientist by
trade. So *robustness and low maintenance* are my top priorities
(right after a proper Z input). I¡¯d prefer something that just
works and doesn¡¯t immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the
electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy
a kit of parts for that.
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires
undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD
electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others
disagree.
Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e.
anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect
for fast modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and
signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a
logic analyser or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope,
"invent" waveform artefacts.
I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there
are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since
they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as
a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are
often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Just to add that I still own and use a 465. Totally bomb-proof! Cost me pennies on Ebay. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Meldrum via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?? In the distant past we used Tek 465s (I think) in VHF radar sounding of the Antarctic icecap. The radar return was used to modulate the beam intensity, and the result recorded on slow-moving 35mm film to give the equivalent of an echo-sounder trace. ? ? ? On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?
Bests
Christian Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via : I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.
? On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Thanks for your comments! :-) So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle. If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly? So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot? Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via : ? On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Hi all, I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case: Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) ¨C ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics. Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I¡¯d prefer something that just works and doesn¡¯t immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that. 24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped. 24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree. Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic. Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser. Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts. I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 20:09, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks for your comments!
:-)
So the takeaway is: no
matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s
the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle.
If I understand you
correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD
electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me,
who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might
actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another
way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models)
would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but for my
specific use case, that might not actually be true? Anything 30 years old is likely to need some maintenance! The points I've mentioned are the common pain points, but there are, of course, others. Make sure you see evidence the scope is fully working, preferably with the screen showing the results of the inbuilt self tests. Ignore "powered up but not further tested"!?
Judge for yourself whether someone will pack it competently for shipping.
My preference is for the 24x5, but the A and B variants offer a little more bandwidth, plus some measurements. Personally I don't think either of those is necessary since I can look at the trace and do some simple mental arithmetic.
Do listen to other people's opinions, and match them to your requirements.?
There are many discussions on this mailing list, and on EEVBlog forum.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
In the distant past we used Tek 465s (I think) in VHF radar sounding of the Antarctic icecap. The radar return was used to modulate the beam intensity, and the result recorded on slow-moving 35mm film to give the equivalent of an echo-sounder trace. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel via groups.io
Sent: 30 April 2025 21:28
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes2] Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?? ? On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the z input, do they ?
Bests
Christian Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via : I was going to suggest that you also look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.
? On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Thanks for your comments! :-) So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle. If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B) models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly? So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the sweet spot? Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but for my specific use case, that might not actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via : ? On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert=[email protected]> wrote: Hi all, I'm currently looking for a suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use case: Displaying vector graphics in XY mode from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel, etc.) ¨C ideally with clean beam blanking via the Z input. I'm also planning to use it for general CRT repairs and TTL logic diagnostics. Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C I'm a computer scientist by trade. So robustness and low maintenance are my top priorities (right after a proper Z input). I¡¯d prefer something that just works and doesn¡¯t immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of parts for that. 24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I have two, both recapped. 24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I don't like them, but others disagree. Any of those would be more than adequate for old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast modern logic. Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping to the digital domain and using a logic analyser or protocol analyser. Be aware that improper probing technique will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform artefacts. I've never used any myself and so can't offer any advice, but there are quite a few devices designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they are for analogue TV (not digital) and they aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they would be relatively cheap. They are often seen at auctions of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
Absolutely no offense taken. It is a legitimate question.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:30 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]> wrote:
sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do
with my English skills.
So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original
criterion with the blanking circuit ;).
I just read that on the wiki.
Thank you and best regards
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave
Daniel via :
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at
16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam
blanking via the z input, do they ?
Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also
look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the
same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit
easier to repair.
On Wed, Apr 30,
2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via
<christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should
plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s
the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5
(non-A/B) models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD
electrolytics, which makes them a bit more
maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a
relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5
might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that
'90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be
the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but
for my specific use case, that might not
actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner
via :
On Wed,
30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert
via
<christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a
suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for
a specific use case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY
mode from arcade PCBs (Atari
Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel,
etc.) ¨C ideally with clean beam
blanking via the Z input. I'm
also planning to use it for general
CRT repairs and TTL logic
diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C
I'm a computer scientist by trade.
So robustness and low
maintenance are my top
priorities (right after a proper Z
input). I¡¯d prefer something that
just works and doesn¡¯t immediately
turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to
recap the PSU, both the electrolytics
and RIFA delayed action smoke
generators. You can buy a kit of parts
for that.
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and
removing the PSU requires undoing the
fragile collet. I have two, both
recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM
problem plus the SMD electrolytics on
the A5 board. I don't like them, but
others disagree.
Any of those would be more than
adequate for old TTL logic (i.e.
anything introduced before the mid 80s),
but they won't be perfect for fast
modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the
analogue waveform PSU and signal
integrity, then flipping to the digital
domain and using a logic analyser or
protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing
technique will, with any fast scope,
"invent" waveform artefacts.
I've never used any myself and so
can't offer any advice, but there are
quite a few devices designed to
display an XY TV signal. Since they
are for analogue TV (not digital) and
they aren't as useful as a scope, I
would guess they would be relatively
cheap. They are often seen at auctions
of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
sorry Dave, I didn't mean to be rude. It may have something to do
with my English skills.
So no, they fall out because they don't meet the original
criterion with the blanking circuit ;).
I just read that on the wiki.
Thank you and best regards
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:27 schrieb Dave
Daniel via groups.io:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at
16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam
blanking via the z input, do they ?
Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also
look at Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the
same -3 dB bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit
easier to repair.
On Wed, Apr 30,
2025 at 15:09 Christian Eisert via
<christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should
plan to recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s
the kind of work I¡¯m used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5
(non-A/B) models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD
electrolytics, which makes them a bit more
maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a
relatively low-maintenance scope, the 24x5
might actually be the sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that
'90s-era hardware (like the B models) would be
the safer bet compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but
for my specific use case, that might not
actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner
via :
On Wed,
30 Apr 2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert
via
<christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a
suitable Tektronix oscilloscope for
a specific use case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY
mode from arcade PCBs (Atari
Asteroids, Tempest, Space Duel,
etc.) ¨C ideally with clean beam
blanking via the Z input. I'm
also planning to use it for general
CRT repairs and TTL logic
diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C
I'm a computer scientist by trade.
So robustness and low
maintenance are my top
priorities (right after a proper Z
input). I¡¯d prefer something that
just works and doesn¡¯t immediately
turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to
recap the PSU, both the electrolytics
and RIFA delayed action smoke
generators. You can buy a kit of parts
for that.
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and
removing the PSU requires undoing the
fragile collet. I have two, both
recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM
problem plus the SMD electrolytics on
the A5 board. I don't like them, but
others disagree.
Any of those would be more than
adequate for old TTL logic (i.e.
anything introduced before the mid 80s),
but they won't be perfect for fast
modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the
analogue waveform PSU and signal
integrity, then flipping to the digital
domain and using a logic analyser or
protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing
technique will, with any fast scope,
"invent" waveform artefacts.
I've never used any myself and so
can't offer any advice, but there are
quite a few devices designed to
display an XY TV signal. Since they
are for analogue TV (not digital) and
they aren't as useful as a scope, I
would guess they would be relatively
cheap. They are often seen at auctions
of broadcast equipment.
|
Re: Seeking Advice: Tektronix 2465 vs. 2465B ¨C or other suggestions?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 16:22 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]> wrote:
Thank you both, the 4X5s do not have proper beam blanking via the
z input, do they ?
Bests
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 22:20 schrieb Dave
Daniel via :
I was going to suggest that you also look at
Tektronix 465s, 475s and 485s. The 485 has the same -3 dB
bandwith of a 2465 (350 MHz) and are a bit easier to repair.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at
15:09 Christian Eisert via <christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Thanks for your comments! :-)
So the takeaway is: no matter what, I should plan to
recap the PSU. Fair enough ¡ª that¡¯s the kind of work I¡¯m
used to and can handle.
If I understand you correctly, the 24x5 (non-A/B)
models don¡¯t have NVRAM or SMD electrolytics, which
makes them a bit more maintenance-friendly?
So for someone like me, who just wants a relatively
low-maintenance scope, the 24x5 might actually be the
sweet spot?
Or to put it another way: I was assuming that '90s-era
hardware (like the B models) would be the safer bet
compared to '80s-era tech ¡ª but for my specific use
case, that might not actually be true?
Christian
Am 30.04.25 um 20:06 schrieb Tom Gardner via :
On Wed, 30 Apr
2025 at 17:53, Christian Eisert via
<christian.eisert= [email protected]>
wrote:
Hi all,
I'm currently looking for a suitable
Tektronix oscilloscope for a specific use
case:
Displaying vector graphics in XY mode
from arcade PCBs (Atari Asteroids, Tempest,
Space Duel, etc.) ¨C ideally with clean beam
blanking via the Z input. I'm also
planning to use it for general CRT repairs and
TTL logic diagnostics.
Important to know:
I'm not an electronics engineer ¨C I'm a
computer scientist by trade. So robustness
and low maintenance are my top
priorities (right after a proper Z input). I¡¯d
prefer something that just works and doesn¡¯t
immediately turn into a restoration project.
IMHO with any 24x5 you will need to recap the
PSU, both the electrolytics and RIFA delayed
action smoke generators. You can buy a kit of
parts for that.
24x5 has the squirrel cage motor, and removing
the PSU requires undoing the fragile collet. I
have two, both recapped.
24x5A/B have the battery backed RAM problem
plus the SMD electrolytics on the A5 board. I
don't like them, but others disagree.
Any of those would be more than adequate for
old TTL logic (i.e. anything introduced before the
mid 80s), but they won't be perfect for fast
modern logic.
Consider using a scope to ensure the analogue
waveform PSU and signal integrity, then flipping
to the digital domain and using a logic analyser
or protocol analyser.
Be aware that improper probing technique
will, with any fast scope, "invent" waveform
artefacts.
I've never used any myself and so can't offer
any advice, but there are quite a few devices
designed to display an XY TV signal. Since they
are for analogue TV (not digital) and they
aren't as useful as a scope, I would guess they
would be relatively cheap. They are often seen
at auctions of broadcast equipment.
|
bill K7WXW
Burt K6OQK
David Meldrum