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On 12/07/2017 02:33 PM, Jan J wrote:

OK... Now how do we get files to you?? Do you have an FTP site?

Upload them here to the group's Files section?

Mark

On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Jan J wrote:

I will give you the latest software I received if you want when the time comes... Warning!!?? It runs under DOS... (And it Won't work on DOS emulator from within Windows-- I tried!).

I would like to get is as soon as possible...

I booted off CD of DOS 6.22, and ran program off floppy disk... The system you use will also have to have a serial port, and you'll connect to the scope via the 9 pin serial connection on scope.

That is not a problem, I do have a real DOS 6.22 machine.

So you'll need DOS, a floppy disk, and Serial port with cable, and a programmer that supports the 1225 or 16W08 chip...? And be able to unsolder old 1225 and put a machine pinned IC Socket (Make sure it is not a thick one, or 1225 on this socket will stick down too low, and it won't go back in Rackmount).

That's not a problem either -- I have proper desoldering station as well as
EETools TopMaxII programmer.

You'll have to have a good Color Bar test signal generator, and unsolder the 1225 chip, and save it with a programmer to disc file....

I do have a good test signal generator, no problems.

Find the Service Manual online for your scope NOW... You will be referring to it... for switch settings for use with serial port, and serial port cable pinout.

OK, will try to find it later tonight when I'm back home and check what
intruments I actually have.

You should have a spare 1225 or Ramtron on DIP chip socket... and a programmer,? instead of leaving the 1225 soldered to? main board, (as if you don't get it right with the software, you'll have a dead scope)

No problems here...

Save your original file with programmer. Dumb luck was the only thing that saved me from over-writing my stock BBRAM...? When you run the CAL program off disc, after selecting the type of scope you are using, program will ERASE the chip in the scope, and from then on, you'll be faced with walking through all the 80 calibration steps, which have sub-steps...? Only when you finish all the steps will it write to the Scope Ram....? And when you finish that, then and only then will you know if it works.... or not, and if it's NOT, you'll wish you had saved BBRAM to disc. Get a programmer if you don't have one.

Actually I'm not sure that BBRAM is still alive in my instruments -- it
might be already dead... Will have to check.

If it works after you run CAL -- and SCH, and waveform and vector and component and other signals look OK, then your finished.... In my case, I had to Hack it in.....? I powered up scope with NO BBRAM in socket.... and discovered that SCH worked....? SO I programmed in FF in half locations, then 1/4, 1/8, etc... until I found the one location where an "F" allowed SCH operation....

In the case of the 1760 scope, that was address 0F of the BBRAM...? I changed the stock data "O" to "F" and SCH then worked.... Minor gain tweeks and configs were done, though I had to replace R145 on SCH board with 200K pot, and tweeked SCH Gain that way.....



On 12/7/2017 1:26 PM, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

?On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Jan J wrote:

?I do also have 1761 without SCH and 1750 (or whatever -- don't remember
?right now) with SCH board so I would like to make a PAL/NTSC 1761 (if my
?dementia serves me right -- it's been couple of years since I got those
?and
?didn't have a chence to work on) with SCH so I might ask some questions
?when
?it finally got to it. Don't know what I could use that for if at all but
?it
?is always better to have an instrument on hand in case it would be needed
?and that instrument better have all the options available :)

?Glad to see someone who understood the hoops I jumped through!!!


?On 12/7/2017 9:08 AM, Burt K6OQK wrote:

??Jan,

??I enjoy your "wordy" offerings.? It's like sitting down with a good
?book.

??Burt, K6OQK? :)

---
*
*? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
*? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
*

On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Jan J wrote:

I do also have 1761 without SCH and 1750 (or whatever -- don't remember
right now) with SCH board so I would like to make a PAL/NTSC 1761 (if my
dementia serves me right -- it's been couple of years since I got those and
didn't have a chence to work on) with SCH so I might ask some questions when
it finally got to it. Don't know what I could use that for if at all but it
is always better to have an instrument on hand in case it would be needed
and that instrument better have all the options available :)

Glad to see someone who understood the hoops I jumped through!!!


On 12/7/2017 9:08 AM, Burt K6OQK wrote:

?Jan,

?I enjoy your "wordy" offerings.? It's like sitting down with a good book.

?Burt, K6OQK? :)

---
*
*? KSI@home??? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
*? Las Vegas?? NV, USA?? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.?? *
*

Jan,

I enjoy your "wordy" offerings.? It's like sitting down with a good book.

Burt, K6OQK? :)

Jan,

I enjoy your "wordy" offerings. It's like sitting down with a good book.

Burt, K6OQK :)

At 04:48 AM 12/7/2017, Jan J wrote
When I found the SCH option board from a 1750 scope, I contacted Tek to see if it was
a 'drop in' replacement. They said 'Yes'.. Really it's "NO"

I was then given some software (DOS) that would 'calibrate'---- a nearly 70 step
program that would Create the BBRAM settings for this scope-If you had to replace the
BBRAM chip.

With a new 1225 chip, I practiced--repeatedly with the program, and I got pretty good
at setting up Waveform and Vector display, but I had no component signals to use, and
it didn't cover the SCH Option board I was trying to install during the calibrate
program, nor after I was done with calibrate and stored the settings to the BBRAM...
SCH Option (When I hit the button) did not work....

By this time I was communicating with a thread at TEK, and I kept revisiting the
subject of: How can I ENABLE the SCH Option? The 3 or so people that did reply from
that thread, were continually referencing to "1760SC" Which I could not find in the
software I received from them.... During this time I was also attempting to upgrade
from V2.3 to V2.4 firmware in the scope, as one of them said that would do it... but
the Upgrade software sent would not erase the NVRAM....

Finally, a fellow who had never replied to me from work, did so from home, and
pointed me to a TEK U.K. site where the same software that I had been sent before was
posted in a public download.... I downloaded it and found out that it was a LATER
version of the same software sent to me before, but this one had 80 steps in the CAL
Program, and included references to a "SCOPE BUILD" Document, and covered all the
1700 scope family, and a reference to a TEK Document "See PRC_LANG.DOC for
instructions on building Model, Option, and Title codes from the key...." and the
following information:
01 NTSC
02 PAL
04 DUAL
10 MISC STEPS (Main Board)
20 VECTOR BOARD
40 SCH BOARD
80 COMPONENT BOARD
and a rem statement of the models:
TEK1740A 31
TEK 1741A 32
TEK1745A 34
TEK 1750A 71
TEK 1751A 72
TEK 1755A 74
TEK 1760 B1
TEK1761 B2
TEK 1765 B4
TEK 1760SC F1
TEK1761SC F2
TEK1765SC F4

Armed with this information, I contacted everyone at TEK that I had contacted before,
asking for the PRC_LANG.DOC.....
At this point, ALL Communications with the folks on that support Link STOPPED!!!!
After waiting a week... I did an online chat... and was abruptly told I would NOT Get
that document.... and demanded to know how I found out about it?
"Well, it's a remark statement within the software you released to the public"
The chat link abruptly ended.... !!!
I then called Support, and was told that that document: PRC_LANG.DOC was a COMPANY
DOCUMENT for Company Personnel only.... and I will never get it...
That was the end of my support ---- Support!!! I was officially on my own...

By this time, I had a couple spare 1225 chips, and was awaiting the Ramtoron 16W08 on
a DIP Header... and started "doing experiments" to see if I could find a way to
Enable the SCH board from 1750 scope in my 1760 scope... and I in-advertantly
powered up scope WITHOUT the 1225 in the socket, and though the gain calibrations
were incorrect---SCH OPTION BOARD WORKED!!!!
I then purchased a Programmer, read the contents of "stock" 1225 chip, and then by
using 'Powers of 2' I put "F" in the first half of BBRAM contents, and put that in
scope... SCH WORKED!
So I then walked the "F" back until I found the ONE LOCATION (Address 0F) where an
"F" would allow me to use the SCH Option.... With this (by then Ramtron chip on Dip
Header arrived), I then touched up some gains, and scope was good except for SCH Gain
on CRT..... (For some reason--1750 SCH Option board in 1760 scope with Firmware Hack
to enable SCH Option board would not adjust SCH Gain in the updated CAL Program the
guy pointed me to in the U.K.) I fixed this by putting a 200K pot in place of R145
(33.2K).... and adjusting SCH Gain....

So, even though TEK Said it would be Plug and Play.... It sure as hell wasn't.... and
I had to HACK the BBRAM in order to enable the SCH Option board from a 1750 scope to
work in a 1760 scope....

Sorry for being so wordy.... but what a "Long, Strange Trip this has been!!!"
Jan

On 12/6/2017 7:51 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Tektronix was always good about sharing parts and ideas among their > product line.
Looks to me like it could share a lot in common with >
the 2465 family. Not bandwidth, so much, but certainly CRT drive and > control, CPU,
front panel control mechanisms... > > I'm pretty sure that most anything that uses a
1225 would rely upon > its battery, as that is the only way it has of preserving
data. The > earlier 2465B, and the 2465A used a separate battery, control, and > CMOS
RAM to provide non volatile storage. > > Thanks for enlightening me. > > -Chuck
Harris > > Jan J wrote: >> Does Composite, Component Waveform and Vector/Diamond
display.. >> Plus, Time Code, Audio, and SCH.. SCH is an option board... >> >> I
don't know if this forum supports pictures... if it does, here is >> what a good SCH
Display looks like..... >> >> On 12/5/2017 9:21 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: >>>
Obviously. >>> >>> I was simply expanding on what you stated to include the early >>>
2465B and 2465A. I can't say that I have ever run into the 1700 >>> series.. Isn't it
a vector scope, or something like that? >>> >>> -Chuck Harris >>> >>> Jan J wrote:

Also, the Tek 1700 series relies on battery within 1225 only... >>>> no other

battery... > > >


Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK

Hi Jan,

That is truly strange. Are the later models 176xSC still under
Tek support?

And I suppose it is possible that there was some customer proprietary
information in that setup program that may have triggered their
sudden reluctance to share further information.... NSA comes to mind.

Anyway, it sounds like your hard work paid off.

-Chuck Harris

Jan J wrote:

When I found the SCH option board from a 1750 scope, I contacted Tek to see if it was
a 'drop in' replacement. They said 'Yes'.. Really it's "NO"

I was then given some software (DOS) that would 'calibrate'---- a nearly 70 step
program that would Create the BBRAM settings for this scope-If you had to replace the
BBRAM chip.

With a new 1225 chip, I practiced--repeatedly with the program, and I got pretty good
at setting up Waveform and Vector display, but I had no component signals to use, and
it didn't cover the SCH Option board I was trying to install during the calibrate
program, nor after I was done with calibrate and stored the settings to the BBRAM...

...

When I changed the Dallas NVSRAMs in my 2440, I did some experiments
to see if they could be used as low power battery backed up SRAMs by
maintaining the supply voltage above the point where the internal
battery would discharge but below the point where the NVSRAMs would be
active. There was no such point and the supply current required would
have been way too high to use an external battery for more than weeks
to months.

My backup plan was to restore the original design with the separate
battery, control, and low power SRAM. At least on the 2440, the
printed circuit boards were the same but the parts were changed or
removed.

As it ended up, the Cypress STK16C88 EEPROM based NVSRAMs that I used
were drop in replacements and worked perfectly so I did not get to
trying FRAM.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 07:51:56 -0500, you wrote:

Tektronix was always good about sharing parts
and ideas among their product line. Looks to me
like it could share a lot in common with the
2465 family. Not bandwidth, so much, but certainly
CRT drive and control, CPU, front panel control
mechanisms...

I'm pretty sure that most anything that uses a 1225
would rely upon its battery, as that is the only way
it has of preserving data. The earlier 2465B, and the
2465A used a separate battery, control, and CMOS RAM
to provide non volatile storage.

Thanks for enlightening me.

-Chuck Harris

Tektronix was always good about sharing parts
and ideas among their product line. Looks to me
like it could share a lot in common with the
2465 family. Not bandwidth, so much, but certainly
CRT drive and control, CPU, front panel control
mechanisms...

I'm pretty sure that most anything that uses a 1225
would rely upon its battery, as that is the only way
it has of preserving data. The earlier 2465B, and the
2465A used a separate battery, control, and CMOS RAM
to provide non volatile storage.

Thanks for enlightening me.

-Chuck Harris

Does Composite, Component Waveform and Vector/Diamond display.. Plus, Time Code,
Audio, and SCH.. SCH is an option board...

I don't know if this forum supports pictures... if it does, here is what a good SCH
Display looks like.....

On 12/5/2017 9:21 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

Obviously.

I was simply expanding on what you stated to include the early
2465B and 2465A. I can't say that I have ever run into the
1700 series.. Isn't it a vector scope, or something like that?

-Chuck Harris

Jan J wrote:

Also, the Tek 1700 series relies on battery within 1225 only... no other battery...

Obviously.

I was simply expanding on what you stated to include the early
2465B and 2465A. I can't say that I have ever run into the
1700 series.. Isn't it a vector scope, or something like that?

-Chuck Harris

Jan J wrote:

Also, the Tek 1700 series relies on battery within 1225 only... no other battery...


On 12/5/2017 9:29 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:

The Ramtron 16W08 family works very well in the 2465A and B
as both a replacement for the Dallas 1225, and as a replacement
for the battery and CMOS RAM in the "A" and early "B" scopes.

However...

Be warned that some EPROM programmers don't prime the pump
correctly with the FRAM chips. The CS is an address latch signal,
not a simple bus enable as it is with most RAM chips. This can mean
that your first, and last address will be in error, even though each
additional address will be fine.

In the 2465A or B scopes, the NVRAM is used as both an area to store
constants, and as system RAM. The system RAM controls the first
addresses as part of the interrupt vector array, and as such it is
restored every time the scope is powered up. Other instruments may
not do this.

To make the FRAM chips work happily in a scope with a separate battery
and CMOS RAM, you have to modify the battery test circuitry to fool
it into thinking the battery is always good.

( Short CR2371 and CR2370, replace CR2770 with 3.9K resistor, remove
battery, jumper + pad to - pad, install label over battery footprint
disclosing modification.)

-Chuck Harris

You got lucky, as the 1225 chip behaves exactly like
the CMOS RAM chip that it contains... a 6116 type.. Your
EPROM programmer happened to do it accidentally right. It
wasn't on purpose as the FRAM didn't exist until a decade
later.

The FRAM is different, its CS is used to latch the address
lines... not to simply enable the bus drivers.

-Chuck Harris

Also, the Tek 1700 series relies on battery within 1225 only... no other battery...


On 12/5/2017 9:29 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:

The Ramtron 16W08 family works very well in the 2465A and B
as both a replacement for the Dallas 1225, and as a replacement
for the battery and CMOS RAM in the "A" and early "B" scopes.

However...

Be warned that some EPROM programmers don't prime the pump
correctly with the FRAM chips. The CS is an address latch signal,
not a simple bus enable as it is with most RAM chips. This can mean
that your first, and last address will be in error, even though each
additional address will be fine.

In the 2465A or B scopes, the NVRAM is used as both an area to store
constants, and as system RAM. The system RAM controls the first
addresses as part of the interrupt vector array, and as such it is
restored every time the scope is powered up. Other instruments may
not do this.

To make the FRAM chips work happily in a scope with a separate battery
and CMOS RAM, you have to modify the battery test circuitry to fool
it into thinking the battery is always good.

( Short CR2371 and CR2370, replace CR2770 with 3.9K resistor, remove
battery, jumper + pad to - pad, install label over battery footprint
disclosing modification.)

-Chuck Harris