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Re: 2710 Spectrum Analyser 'Cannot count VCO, IF' error

 

Hi all,
Nice to meet you.
Just after answering I saw all the other responces. Sorry for not having checked further developments in time.
Jaap


Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

Hey adesilva_1999, please feel free to email me directly to discuss any 465 questions. We seem to be on the same path. Have you taken out the vertical preamp yet? Message me if not. I learned a few things taking it out that were not at all obvious for a first timer like myself.
Dave


Re: To pay for Peter Keller's Book ...

 

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 12:53 PM Lawrance A. Schneider <
llaassllaaass@...> wrote:

To pay with PayPal, it need more than MarianT@... . I don't know what
the "..." is. Clearly, I'm lesserly smart than others, but I just don't
know what to use.
It looks like the web interface on groups.io garbles anything that looks
like an email address. I don't have trouble with this in email delivery,
see /g/TekScopes/message/173743.


Re: (OT) Where to go for 70s IBM hardware? I'm looking for a terminal.

 

Those prices are not reasonable, and the sellers do not accept offers,
contrary to what's advertised on eBay.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 4:57 PM Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@...> wrote:

A quick look at ePay reveals 3 IBM 5110s, and two 5120s all asking in
excess of $1200 (all but one are OBO, so you might be able to get a
discount). Shipping on these things is going to be bear, however. There are
lots of watchers on each one.

The 5120 is especially interesting looking, with a larger display, two
vertically mounted 8 inch floppies, and a generally "rounder" look to the
case: the thing just screams 1975. If I had any interest in these machines
I might be tempted to pick one up.






Re: 2710 Spectrum Analyser 'Cannot count VCO, IF' error

 

Hello Martin,
Sorry for the late responce. I have an open 2712 here which had repairs and now need adjustments. I checked the signals you asked for:
J195 - signal comes from the Reference Board and was as it should be a stable in amplitude 100MHz signal about 300mV peak-peak, which is about calculated -7dBm.
J190 - 10MHz signal, more or less square wave 450mV peak-peak, which is about 0dBm calculated (including harmonics).
J180 - I measured while "in LOCK" state (in the 2712 lower than in 50kHz/div spans) a constant 800mV peak-peak 16MHz - while not "in LOCK" state there were signal bursts while changing the span/div.
I hope this helps you a bit further. I will have this and other of this family analyzers open for a while to come, so it will be easy for me to do measurements.
Jaap PA0JRK
Netherlands


Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

On 2020-11-25 12:59 p.m., Dave Peterson via groups.io wrote:
Thanks everyone for the endorsements on these component suppliers. Makes me feel good about joining in, and you have given me some good ideas on how to order - like accumulating a shopping list and ordering when it's over a certain value.

That's what I do, to hit Digikey's free shipping threshold. That way I
can fool myself that I'm saving money!

--Toby


...
Dave





Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

Yep, C1534: 3uF 55v supply filter cap (continuity to TP1536). At least it's not a signal cap (too large anyway?).


Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

adesilva_1999,

Is C1534 the "can" at the back of A9 that's near VR1525?!

I just unmounted the + lead yesterday to check it because it had the same "white flaky stuff". I almost dove into a full tear down of dismounting A9 because of it. Cooler heads prevailed and the pulling of the + lead allowed me to check it (it was good) and get it soldered back in. Looks way better anyway.

I hadn't gotten to checking it's existence in the schematics yet.

I'd say "white flaky stuff" isn't a problem in-and-of-itself, but I would like to know what's going on there.

Dave


Re: Fix or Part Out a Tek 475A

 

oops I meant the 1N400x series....I was interrupted while typing and hit send prior proofing...you are correct.
oh the leads on 160 were same as 4148
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð

On 11/25/20 10:32 AM, Jeff Dutky wrote:
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð,

what I used to replace the same is MUR 160 ... the 4148 was not fast enough
But the datasheet for the MUR160 gives Trr of 60 ns, while the 1N4148 gives Trr of 4 ns. How could the 1N4148 be too slow?

Also the capacitance of the MUR160 is 20 pF compared to the 1N4148's 4 pF, so the MUR160 would throw the capacitance of the whole sub-circuit off.

Finally, when I look at alleged pictures of MUR160s they seem to have really fat leads, which makes sense given their higher current rating, but that will only make it more difficult to place them in the existing holes, especially since I'm having to do the rework without access to the backside of the PCB.




Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

Thanks to Dave and the rest who are on this thread. I am trying to restore a low serial 465 as I write. I also got good pointers from EEV blog. Some great contributors there. Some of you may be on there also. I will book mark this and if I can, I will make some comments.

That C 1419 is a common failure from what I have read. Someone also pointed to the "wet tantalum" caps like C 1534. I just found this last night as the + ve lead was surrounded by white flaky stuff where it goes in to the board. Surprisingly, it shows no leakage near the cap itself! Now I have to check for similar caps elsewhere.

My scope works for the most part except the CH 2. Some positions seem to have bad contact on those flimsy switch contacts. Before I go into the caps, I want to get that sorted out.


Re: Fix or Part Out a Tek 475A

 

¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð,

what I used to replace the same is MUR 160 ... the 4148 was not fast enough
But the datasheet for the MUR160 gives Trr of 60 ns, while the 1N4148 gives Trr of 4 ns. How could the 1N4148 be too slow?

Also the capacitance of the MUR160 is 20 pF compared to the 1N4148's 4 pF, so the MUR160 would throw the capacitance of the whole sub-circuit off.

Finally, when I look at alleged pictures of MUR160s they seem to have really fat leads, which makes sense given their higher current rating, but that will only make it more difficult to place them in the existing holes, especially since I'm having to do the rework without access to the backside of the PCB.


Tektronix 492A input attenuator repair ????

Bent Andersen
 

Hello Groupe

I have this 492A spectrum analyzer and I have found that the input attenuator (0-60DB) i defect.... is it still possible to get spare parts for this attenuator
or is there a better way to repair it ....

I have bypass the attenuator and I can se signal on the display, so I hope that the rest of the spectrum analyzer is working...

OZ1CT Ben


Re: Tek 3A1 Module

 

My rule of thumb when looking at electronic equipment on E-bay or
anywhere else is to look *closely* for signs that anyone has been into it.
If it isn't *sealed* and it's not guaranteed to work then expect the
worst. I wouldn't pay more than a *minimal* price for anything that has
been opened and that isn't guaranteed to operate properly. I've seen far
too much equipment for sale by big time used equipment dealers such as
Tucker Electronics being sold in "as-is" condition that I'm sure have
already been stripped of anything useful.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:08 AM David Holland <david.w.holland@...>
wrote:

Yeah, as Brenda said....

The manuals detail what vacuum tubes are in the plugins. I'd pay close
attention to any photos as I've gotten burnt once or twice by not paying
attention to them. I would presume if there's no photos, and no statement
one way or the other, that the tubes are missing.

If you start getting into the advanced (sampling) plugins, I would pay
closer attention to the photos for the presence of the transistors, as most
of them are socketed, long obsolete, and made from 99.95% pure unobtanium.

A few plugins (ex: 3B3) use tunnel diodes, but as far as I've seen, they're
generally soldered to the board. Tunnel diodes are also mostly made of
unobtanium, and may be dead, but at least they'll likely still be there...
:-)

Again, the various plugin manuals all have a relatively complete parts list
in the back, if you wonder what should be in a given plugin.

David


On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:05 PM Brenda via groups.io <brendda75=
[email protected]> wrote:

Hello Dave, The 3A1 plugins that I have come across ends up not only the
6DJ8 tubes missing, there are 2 8233 tubes that end up missing as well.
There are 4 7586 nuvistor tubes in the front end, but seems like the tube
pickers pass over these from my experience. I am in the market for a few
3A1 and 3A6 plugins myself...at a reasonable price, $400 is just way too
much!!










Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

AGREED,

We use Mouser primarily, they have a fulfillment center at Love Field (or is it DFW?)so shipping response is great. Having said that we also us Allied, Newark, and Digikey with similar results. Arrow is OK IF you can figure out their website and they have minimums.

All of these folks have shipped one part orders without question. Here in the US, Mouser has a $7.99 shipping charge for up to 2-day so that¡¯s a help also.

Steve
Datagate Systems, LLC

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of toby@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 8:47 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Choosing the right replacement cap

On 2020-11-25 11:11 a.m., Tom Phillips wrote:
Dave,

Regarding your question "How are places like Mouser and Digikey with small time onsie-twosie buyers..."

I have found that they are amazingly cooperative with small orders. I have been refurbishing many of my personal test equipment units each of which need a variety of replacement electrolytic caps. I end up ordering "kits" of parts after spending a significant amount of time using the search engines on the supplier's web site to find high quality replacements of suitable size and value. I choose only "in stock" parts because the stated manufacturers lead time for non stocked parts is just an estimate and usually requires a substantial minimum order quantity. I also want my "kit" to arrive complete so I can get on with the project. During my last order I found that Mouser didn't quite have all the parts I needed but Newark did and the Newark pricing was better. Digikey is a good supplier too. I just haven't needed to use them recently.

+1. I use Digikey constantly, they will ship a single part just as
efficiently as 10,000. I've had (free) deliveries of tiny orders within
11 hours of ordering.

Just a happy customer.
--T



Tom





OT - PCMCIA anyone?

 

I know some of you guys deal with older computers and PCMCIA cards so I figured I'd offer it up here first.

I have an ISA bus PC Card adapter (card that goes into the ISA bus and you can plug a PC Card card into it). I don't know if it'll take one card or two, it's new and sealed. Made by or for Lucent/Orinoco.

Second item is a Lucent/Orinoco PC Card wireless network adapter 11Mbps. Also new and sealed.

I have no use for either and before I bit bucket or recycle it, I figured I would offer it up here for the cost of shipping. CONUS only.

You can email me direct at either:

vev at michvhf dot com OR vev at cdupe dot com

Vince - K8ZW.
--
K8ZW


Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

Thanks everyone for the endorsements on these component suppliers. Makes me feel good about joining in, and you have given me some good ideas on how to order - like accumulating a shopping list and ordering when it's over a certain value.

Ke-Fong, you bring up a point that was on the edge of my mind last night: this 465 scope C1419 cap is clearly a marginal element of these scopes. Why would they do that? Because, as I well know being in the R&D branch of tech development: cost, cost, cost. Sometimes you don't know where the marginality in a design is until you get it in the field. And mass manufactures have to get each and every component down to the lowest possible cost. Given the serial numbers on these things it's clear Tektronix made well over 300,000 of them. That's a lot of C1419s. And that's just one component in the whole scope.

I guess I'm not a restoration purist in taking on 465 repair. I'm very willing to use modern components in place of originals. Especially when a marginality like this has been exposed by several lifetimes worth of use in the field. I hope I'm not offending any enthusiasts with my intent to apply an overkill upgrade on this cap. But it seems reasonable to me. And it's part of the hobbyist entertainment to over analyze and over think such minutia. But that's what engineering is, no?

I'm liking the Nichicon UCY2C470MPD1TD for this cap. I'll probably get 10 of them from Mouser. I'll even replace it in my working 465 once I have this one up and running. Seems a good prophylactic. But I won't be ordering it for a while. I have a lot of scope to go through before I know for sure everything I'll need. And I need to go down and make sure it'll fit too.

Dave


Re: To pay for Peter Keller's Book ...

 

It will be:

MarianT@...

If that gets garbled, it is:

MarianT (at) YouthEastsideServices (dot) org

Colin.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lawrance A. Schneider
Sent: 25 November 2020 17:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TekScopes] To pay for Peter Keller's Book ...

Hello Dennis,

To pay with PayPal, it need more than MarianT@... . I don't know what the "..." is. Clearly, I'm lesserly smart than others, but I just don't know what to use.

Thank you, larry


To pay for Peter Keller's Book ...

 

Hello Dennis,

To pay with PayPal, it need more than MarianT@... . I don't know what the "..." is. Clearly, I'm lesserly smart than others, but I just don't know what to use.

Thank you, larry


Re: Fix or Part Out a Tek 475A

 

what I used to replace the same is MUR 160 in my 422 had several that just went leaky. the 4148 was not fast enough
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð
¸é±ð²Ô¨¦±ð

On 11/25/20 12:19 AM, Tom Lee wrote:
Hi Jeff,

Please call me Tom. :)

Some critical diode parameters are rarely discussed in EE curricula, so you have every right to be flummoxed by datasheets. It is also not infrequently the case that manufacturers want to overwhelm you with a lot of data to hide the fact that they didn't tell you the one thing you really wanted to know. One of these is "reverse recovery time". It happens that PN junction diodes don't turn off right away. Until they do, the diode maintains a 0.7V anode-to-cathode voltage, even if that means that the current reverses direction. As you might imagine that can be a Very Bad Thing(tm) in certain circumstances. The time taken for a diode to return to the non-conducting state is the reverse recovery time. This value depends on both the forward and reverse current, but under typical conditions, the 1N4148 recovers in the several-nanosecond range. The venerable 1N400x is much slower, with 5-20us being typical. The UF400x is a fast recovery version of the 1N400x series, with typical recovery times in the range of 50ns-100ns.

On top of all that, you might care about capacitance, as in any circuit that has to support a high bandwidth. Frustratingly, manufacturers often leave out that data, making it difficult to figure out whether a given diode might be an acceptable replacement. In that case, you have to guess. A good guide to guessing is to assume that the junction capacitance is 10-20pF per ampere of rated forward current. This figure applies to junction diodes, and not to Schottky or other types. (But the same rule of thumb applies to the output capacitance of a bipolar transistor, as it happens.) The logic is that both capacitance and current-handling capacity are functions of device area, so the two should be correlated. Other factors affect the relationship as well, but current handling capacity is the simplest proxy for capacitance that is quantitatively useful.

In your circuit, you're looking for a diode with a breakdown voltage of 175V and a forward current rating of 100mA. The 1A rating of a 1N4004? or UF4004 means that it can handle those two fine, but will have 10 or so times the capacitance, and so will likely be unacceptable. A Schottky unfortunately has much higher capacitance per ampere, so it is also probably not a good choice here.

After all that, I often replace these types of diodes with series combinations of 1N4148, if there's room, because I am always impatient to fix the thing now, rather than wait for the right part to get shipped to me (if I can even find a vendor of these often-obsolete components). In this circuit, two in series should suffice to replace an FDH2161. Some fussy folks would advise using a resistor in parallel with each diode to guarantee equal voltage division, but they're unnecessary here, especially if the diodes come from the same batch.

Good luck with your continued debug. You are going to get this to work!

--Cheers,
Tom


Re: Choosing the right replacement cap

 

Hi John,

I'm a regular "user" of Mouser and Farnell (UK).
Mouser offers free fedex express (basically 2 days) from Texas to France for order above 50 or 70 euros (but I think it's 50).
Farnell does free UPS for 30 euros (ok UK is next to France with a small arm of sea to cross).

I believe they have a business model to do just that, small orders. Along with probably big ones, of course.
Small orders are not only hobbyiest, but I believe for prototyping purpose, "professionals" may place that kind of order.
And plus, a few very good Nichicon capacitors can look cheap enough, but they're even cheaper when you buys in the 10000s.
I'm wondering at why price, let's say Samsung, gets its capacitors for their consumer TV.

All in all, they probably make some kind of profit, or at least break even.

Best regards,