From: bravovb
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Replacement to DS1230AB Lithium backed NVRAM
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2013, 8:54 AM

?

Mr. Silva,

Its been a while. How is the 2465B going with FRAM ?

--- In TekScopes@..., "Victor Silva" wrote:
>
> I have found that the FRAM devices are not a viable option in the
> 243X/40. Sadly I must report that what looked like a very promising
> alternative to the DALLAS RAM/Lithium cell combo has turned out to be
> a dead end.
>
> I have been testing for over one month now on a 2430A, 2440 and 2465B
> and everything seemed fine. My last test was to actually determine
> the read/write frequency to the device.
>
> It turn out a 2430A writes to the battery-backed devices as often as
> once every microsecond. Since the FRAM device as a maximum of 10^10
> read/write cycles (before it loses its NV capability) a quick
> calculation reveals that the 2430A scope will render the FRAM device
> a volatile device in one to three months.
>
> For now I can only recommend the DALLAS (or other vendors)
> RAM/Lithium cell combo pack device for use in Tek scopes.
>
> Sorry for getting everyone's hopes up for a more inexpensive
> replacement for NVRAM.
>
> --Victor Silva
>

The only issues with mine when I took delivery was two dead zeners. One was
in the PSU (but I think it was in the LT regulator bit) and a similar zener
on the z-axis board. Both were glass bodied, and I think they were GE.
Once replaced the unit fired up immediately.



Craig



From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf
Of GKupka
Sent: 16 March 2013 08:56
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?








Does anyone in the group have a similar issue with a P7103 or 7104
mainframe?



Gerhard



----- Original Message -----

From: g_kupka <mailto:ghm1@...>

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:42 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?







Jerry,

I replaced the bridge rectifier CR15 and the two main caps C16 and C17 in
the line input section, the two switching transisors Q36 and Q40 in the
inverter section, the rectifier diodes and all caps in the rectifier
section. The PSIU will not run.

Gerhard


--- In TekScopes@..., jerry massengale <j_massengale@> wrote:

Gerhard,

I looked at the 7103 PSU and I see no reason for it not to run with the

crt missing. I think you must have a PSU that would not run in any case.
When you say there are no shorts or tants on the board, are you talking
about the low voltage regulator only? The rectifier board that drives the
low voltage board often has shorted or open caps. Make sure it is good. The
aluminum caps are often open.

The archives have a wealth of info on troubleshooting. You have plenty of

guys and gals eager to help.

Before you go too far, You might want to try adjusting the -50V pot to see

if the psu will start running.

What plugins are installed. You may not have enough load.





Jerry Massengale






-----Original Message-----
From: g_kupka <ghm1@>
To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...

<mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 4:53 am
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?





Who can help?

Gerhard

--- In TekScopes@... <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> ,

"g_kupka" <ghm1@> wrote:

It doesn't run. It is in a 1Hz tick mode.
There are no tantals and no short circuits on th board.
Gerhard

--- In TekScopes@... <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> ,

Don Black <donald_black@> wrote:

I think you would need to insulate the high voltage lead that normally

plugs into the ultor on the tube side. I think it has about 24 kV on

it,

that will jump across a considerable gap. It will need something more
than just a bit of insulation tape wrapped around it. Perhaps some
plastic tubing over the end, then put the end in a glass jar and keep

it

away from the chassis, circuitry, etc. This is close to the final
voltage in a CRT color TV set. There is also a couple of kV at the

tube

socket so keep that clear of anything too.

Don Black.

On 06-Mar-13 1:57 AM, jerry massengale wrote:

Gerhard,

I have not tried it but I would assume it would run fine. It may

need

to have plugins installed.


Jerry Massengale



-----Original Message-----
From: g_kupka <ghm1@>
To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...

<mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 8:13 am
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a

CRT?

Sorry, the title was wrong.
The right title is:

Does the PSU of the R7103 run without a CRT?

Gerhard

--- In TekScopes@...

<mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com>;,

"g_kupka" wrote:

I have a R7103 mainframe without CRT.
Now I can get a CRT for the R7103. But before I buy the CRT I will

check whether mainframe is ok. And there my question:

Will the PSU run without a CRT?
Gerhard

From: Chuck Harris
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE
To: "Gala Dragos" <gala_dragos@...>
Date: Sunday, March 17, 2013, 6:24 PM

Run the EPROM through a Z-80 disassembler?

-Chuck

Gala Dragos wrote:
> I've found out that A03W101 really go to nowhere. Following the circuits it goes
> to A04 board into some resistor which is not mounted. So I'm at a dead end. Any
> ideas ? --- On Fri, 3/15/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>
> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
> Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE To: "Gala Dragos" <gala_dragos@...> Cc:
> "ArtekMedia" <manuals@...> Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:30 PM
>
> Hi Gala,
>
> I would give you a copy if I had one, but I only have the military manual that you
> already have.? I would suggest that you send an email to Dave Henderson at :
> ArtekMedia <manuals@...>
>
> He has been known to send schematics to people in need.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
> Gala Dragos wrote:
>> Not having the full schematics makes this a very difficult repair process !
>> After a very lengthy probing session, in which I've managed to find a connection
>> from A03W102 to A02 and back, I decided to try and remove the last jumper wires
>> that differ between 318 and 338 instruments. Apart from A04W118 which is marked
>> as TYPE ID and sets the corresponding number of probes and possible the memory
>> size that is required to test at startup, there are two more jumper wires
>> A03W102 and A03W101. A03W102 is tied on A03 pin 23B and from what I could tell
>> is responsible for checking the presence of the A02 and possibly A01 boards (and
>> their types ?). W101 seems not to be connected anywhere, I could not find any
>> connection, but I could be mistaking as I don't have the full schematics. Now I
>> have unsoldered the jumpers one at a time and started the instrument with them
>> removed, below is what I've found. When W102 removed gives an error in
>> diagnostics on the PRL section which states: "TIME BASE, WR, ACQ,NDL SEQ". When
>> W101 is removed nothing happens (as long as W102 is in its place). I somehow
>> find it hard too believe that Tektronix made a PCB with a ghost jumper that is
>> not used for anything. There must be something on the missing pages of the
>> schematic that can shade some light, there must be a loop somewhere ! Can anyone
>> provide the full schematics? Please. PS: both A03W101 and A03W102 are coming out
>> of A04U104 (pins 1 and 2) and are marked EDB6 and EDB7 respectively. --- On Fri,
>> 3/15/13, Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>> Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At least page 4 of the tektronix 318 schematics, if not full ?
>>
>> --- On Thu, 3/14/13, Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "TekScopes"
>> <TekScopes@...> Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 9:09 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm missing part of A02 board form the schematics, it is necessary to follow two
>> signals that differ between 318 and 338. Can anybody provide the full schematic
>> of the 318 logic analyzer?
>>
>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "Gala Dragos"
>> <gala_dragos@...> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 10:25 PM
>>
>> Hi Gala,
>>
>> Sounds like you static zapped something.? ECL, LSTTL, and TTL are pretty
>> resistant to static, but not so any of the NMOS.? NMOS and CMOS chips from that
>> era were extremely sensitive to static electricity.
>>
>> Given that little tidbit of information, I would spend some time looking closer
>> to the CPU... particularly anything that could prevent you from setting the 20ns
>> setting.? I don't remember how the 318 did that, but I recall it required a few
>> steps.
>>
>>
>> Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>>> Do you suppose that your 318 is doing something like that?
>>> Don't know, I don't own this for that long. The story starts in January, when
>>> I've realized I need a logic analyzer, so I managed to find one close by, well
>>> in the same continent and fiscal area that is (Europe). Got the instrument,
>>> but it came without the probes, which I have acquired from Jerry here on the
>>> forum. When the instrument arrived I have checked that the menu displays what
>>> it should, including the 20ns, and that it actually trigger on to something,
>>> which it did. During these tests I noticed that the
>> fan blows a lot of dust, it looked like a diesel exhaust. So, naturally, I took
>> it apart and cleaned the thing. Put it back together and, to my surprise, no
>> 20ns clock was available.
>>> I need that 20ns clock up and running as I have some apps that run at 40+ Mhz
>>>
>>>>> That actually is a very good sign!Good, but what to do next? It is still
>>>>> unexplained.
>>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>>> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 9:26
>> PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gala,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That actually is a very good sign!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have used some logic analyzers where the glitch memory reduced
>>>
>>> the storage speed by a bit... and others where the synchronous
>>>
>>> storage mode was somewhat slower than the asynchronous storage
>>>
>>> mode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ... And, I have seen other units where there were lower priced
>>>
>>> siblings that were made specifically to use up the slow memory
>>>
>>> boards (that otherwise would have to be discarded).? It used to
>>>
>>> be a very common practice with minicomputers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you suppose
>> that your 318 is doing something like that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's always better when it turns out to be operator error.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>
>>>> So situation is now like this:- instrument type detection works, by adding
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> removing w118 from A04 board (acquisition)- the 20ns clock is still not
>>>> available
>>>
>>>> from the menu What the heck is going on? --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Gala Dragos
>>>
>>>> <gala_dragos@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re:
>>>
>>>> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@...
>>>> Date:
>>>
>>>> Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 11:28
>> AM
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> >> Well that 20ns clock is missing in the diagnostics menu as well. TYPE ID is
>>>> only
>>>
>>>> tested at startup, I've just checked that by soldering a wire across W118
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> removing it (with a switch) when I entered
>> the trigger menu. When W118 is jumpered
>>>
>>>> at startup the instrument is a 338 until next startup (or MPU reset). The
>>>> 20ns
>>>
>>>> clock is no where to be seen no matter the if W118 is soldered or not.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> From: sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix
>>>> 318
>>>
>>>> manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@... Date: Wednesday,
>>>> March
>>>
>>>> 13, 2013, 6:32
>> AM
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> >>
>>>
>>>> Comments inline...
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> --- In TekScopes@..., Gala Dragos wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have that manual, I cannot find half of
>> A02 board.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You're right! page <4> is missing! The doc looked pretty good to me when I
>>>> first
>>>
>>>> looked at it. ;)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> That being said, my dead-tree version that is truly complete has the
>>>> following
>>>
>>>> circuits:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 1) External clock input buffer with its threshold comparator/delay circuit.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) Internal/external clock select logic.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 3) Some buffers for qualifiers.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 4) Threshold buffer amplifiers for the pods.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> 5) The signal routing to get one pod connector's differential signals to
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> interconnect header for the
>> A01's differential to ECL signal w/ glitch detection
>>>
>>>> circuits. (one pod is handled on A01, one pod on A02)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> For the problems you're experiencing, it probably won't help much, if any.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> The full symptoms are these:- 20ns clock? disappeared;- there are 4
>>>>> selectable
>>>
>>>>> groups in the setup screen;- each group has 16 bits available for
>>>>> display;- only
>>>
>>>>> 2 pods can be selected for input (pod A and pod B), the rest are
>>>>> unavailable;
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> By that, I think you mean that groups 3 & 4 are disabled by default, and you
>>>> can
>>>
>>>> only enter signals A0-7 or B0-7 into groups.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> Correct?
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> - all tests pass, including acq and sram;- the pods are capturing
>>>>> external
>>>
>>>>> signals properly (checked them with the available calibration output);
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This would imply that upon power-up, it *does* ID itself as a 318.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have noticed that the instrument can be "used" without the?
>>>>> acquisition?
>>>
>>>>> board, albeit you can only browse the menus.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Not surprising, since much of the hardware is write only or limited in how
>>>> the CPU
>>>
>>>> can interact with it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Excerpt from the manual:? "The chip
>> select latch (A04U114) is used to enable
>>>
>>>>> each 8-bit pair of the acquisition memory and for identifying instrument
>>>>> type.
>>>
>>>>> It is written by the MPU with the WRITE BS signal from the A03 ACQ
>>>>> Control
>>>
>>>>> board."
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have checked that circuit for continuity of traces and they are all ok.
>>>>> On the
>>>
>>>>> schematic there is a jumper wire called W118 which in the 338 is mounted
>>>>> and in
>>>
>>>>> the 318 is not mounted, checked that as well and it is not mounted.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Since you've checked the signal connections, it sounds like a hardware
>>>> failure in
>>>
>>>> one or more chips.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Consider the following (I have no idea how they
>> wrote the firmware, so I have to
>>>
>>>> make some educated guesses):
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> The Bank Select pin used for Type ID is "wire-OR'ed" with the ACQ/Glitch
>>>> Memory
>>>
>>>> output data bus, which has pull-up/termination resistors to bring the bus to
>>>> a
>>>
>>>> known inactive state.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Since the 318 has the jumper removed, then when the ID bank bit is driven
>>>> active,
>>>
>>>> the signal to be read *should* be in the "inactive" state.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> If one of the ACQ/Glitch SRAM's were to drive this pin to a "active" state,
>>>> then
>>>
>>>> the bit will be incorrectly read (there is also some status bits that are
>>>> selected
>>>
>>>> by the 2-1 muxes, so something could be wrong there
>> too).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> When would this happen?
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Apparently, not on power-up, as it knows to be a 318 for pod count and
>>>> memory to
>>>
>>>> test.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> But perhaps when you enter the Trigger menu and start moving the clock rate,
>>>> then
>>>
>>>> the firmware *might* check the hardware jumper state again, read the wrong
>>>
>>>> information, and prevent selecting the highest clock rate.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This is just a guess, but it would be easy to check-
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Solder a jumper wire onto the W118 pad on the latch side for probing with a
>>>> scope,
>>>
>>>> and check for
>> activity by the CPU to drive it active (to read the ID TYPE). The
>>>
>>>> signal will be fairly slow, as it is driven active across several
>>>> instructions,
>>>
>>>> and thus will be in the micro-second range, unlike the sampling circuitry.
>>>> Not an
>>>
>>>> ideal situation for signal integrity, but then I doubt you have a pair of
>>>> extender
>>>
>>>> cards handy (made of unobtanium).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the signals in this area are ECL, so the logic transition delta is
>>>> about
>>>
>>>> 0.8V between 1's and 0's, and does not go to either "ground" or V- (ECL is
>>>
>>>> technically a -5.2V logic family).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Explore the operation of the analyzer, and note when the signal goes active.
>>>> Try
>>>
>>>> various menus, field changes, etc. to see when the
>> CPU fiddles with this signal.
>>>
>>>> You might also look at when the Bank Select Latch is clocked too.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You could check some other signals from the bank latch and the read side as
>>>> sanity
>>>
>>>> checks if necessary.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I can't think of any other explanation as to why you can't select 20 nS
>>>> clock.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> Sbirdasn.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
& gt;>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> br>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: g_kupka

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:39 AM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: How to upgrade a 7854 to opt 2D

?

Dave,

Thank you, is an ajustment necessary after swapping the RAM board?

Gerhard

--- In TekScopes@..., "David C. Partridge" wrote:
>
> Yes
>
> Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of g_kupka
> Sent: 17 March 2013 10:22
> To: TekScopes@...
> Subject: [TekScopes] How to upgrade a 7854 to opt 2D
>
> I have two 7854.
> 1st one opt 2D(extended memory):
> I can store a signal, but it doesn't show the stored signal in the store mode, it shows only a horizontal line.
> 2nd one opt 78(P11 CRT):
> It works well. Can I upgrade this mainframe to opt 2D by swapping the memory board from the 1st one to the 2nd one?
>
> Gerhard
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Yes

Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of g_kupka
Sent: 17 March 2013 10:22
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] How to upgrade a 7854 to opt 2D

I have two 7854.
1st one opt 2D(extended memory):
I can store a signal, but it doesn't show the stored signal in the store mode, it shows only a horizontal line.
2nd one opt 78(P11 CRT):
It works well. Can I upgrade this mainframe to opt 2D by swapping the memory board from the 1st one to the 2nd one?

Gerhard




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I have found that the FRAM devices are not a viable option in the
243X/40. Sadly I must report that what looked like a very promising
alternative to the DALLAS RAM/Lithium cell combo has turned out to be
a dead end.

I have been testing for over one month now on a 2430A, 2440 and 2465B
and everything seemed fine. My last test was to actually determine
the read/write frequency to the device.

It turn out a 2430A writes to the battery-backed devices as often as
once every microsecond. Since the FRAM device as a maximum of 10^10
read/write cycles (before it loses its NV capability) a quick
calculation reveals that the 2430A scope will render the FRAM device
a volatile device in one to three months.

For now I can only recommend the DALLAS (or other vendors)
RAM/Lithium cell combo pack device for use in Tek scopes.

Sorry for getting everyone's hopes up for a more inexpensive
replacement for NVRAM.

--Victor Silva

From: Gala Dragos
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 - UPDATE
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 8:21 PM

?

Not having the full schematics makes this a very difficult repair process ! After a very?lengthy?probing session, in which I've managed to find a connection from A03W102 to A02 and back, I decided to try and remove the last jumper wires that differ between 318 and 338 instruments. Apart from A04W118 which is marked as TYPE ID and sets the corresponding number of probes and?possible?the memory size that is required to test at startup, there are two more jumper wires A03W102 and A03W101. A03W102 is tied on A03 pin 23B and from what I could tell is?responsible?for checking the presence of the A02 and possibly A01 boards (and their types ?). W101 seems not to be connected anywhere, I could not find any connection, but I could be mistaking as I don't have the full schematics. Now I have unsoldered the jumpers one at a time and started the instrument with them removed, below is what I've found. When W102 removed gives an error in diagnostics on the PRL section which states: "TIME BASE, WR, ACQ,NDL SEQ". When W101 is removed nothing happens (as long as W102 is in its place). I somehow find it hard too believe that Tektronix made a PCB with a ghost jumper that is not used for anything. There must be something on the missing pages of the schematic that can shade some light, there must be a loop somewhere ! Can anyone provide the full schematics? Please. PS: both A03W101 and A03W102 are coming out of A04U104 (pins 1 and 2) and are marked EDB6 and EDB7 respectively. --- On Fri, 3/15/13, Gala Dragos wrote: From: Gala Dragos Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@... Date: Friday, March 15, 2013, 10:12 AM ? At least page 4 of the tektronix 318 schematics, if not full ? --- On Thu, 3/14/13, Gala Dragos wrote: From: Gala Dragos Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "TekScopes" Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 9:09 PM ? I'm missing part of A02 board form the schematics, it is necessary to follow two signals that differ between 318 and 338. Can anybody provide the full schematic of the 318 logic analyzer? --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris wrote: From: Chuck Harris Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: "Gala Dragos" Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 10:25 PM Hi Gala, Sounds like you static zapped something.? ECL, LSTTL, and TTL are pretty resistant to static, but not so any of the NMOS.? NMOS and CMOS chips from that era were extremely sensitive to static electricity. Given that little tidbit of information, I would spend some time looking closer to the CPU... particularly anything that could prevent you from setting the 20ns setting.? I don't remember how the 318 did that, but I recall it required a few steps. Gala Dragos wrote: >>>???Do you suppose that your 318 is doing something like that? > Don't know, I don't own this for that long. > The story starts in January, when I've realized I need a logic analyzer, so I managed to find one close by, well in the same continent and fiscal area that is (Europe). > Got the instrument, but it came without the probes, which I have acquired from Jerry here on the forum. > When the instrument arrived I have checked that the menu displays what it should, including the 20ns, and that it actually trigger on to something, which it did. > During these tests I noticed that the fan blows a lot of dust, it looked like a diesel exhaust. So, naturally, I took it apart and cleaned the thing. Put it back together and, to my surprise, no 20ns clock was available. > I need that 20ns clock up and running as I have some apps that run at 40+ Mhz > >>>???That actually is a very good sign!Good, but what to do next? It is still unexplained. > --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote: > > From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> > Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic > To: TekScopes@... > Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 9:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ? ? Hi Gala, > > > > That actually is a very good sign! > > > > I have used some logic analyzers where the glitch memory reduced > > the storage speed by a bit... and others where the synchronous > > storage mode was somewhat slower than the asynchronous storage > > mode. > > > > ... And, I have seen other units where there were lower priced > > siblings that were made specifically to use up the slow memory > > boards (that otherwise would have to be discarded).? It used to > > be a very common practice with minicomputers. > > > > Do you suppose that your 318 is doing something like that? > > > > It's always better when it turns out to be operator error. > > > > -Chuck > > > > Gala Dragos wrote: > >> So situation is now like this:- instrument type detection works, by adding or > >> removing w118 from A04 board (acquisition)- the 20ns clock is still not available > >> from the menu What the heck is going on? --- On Wed, 3/13/13, Gala Dragos > >> <gala_dragos@...> wrote: > >> > >> From: Gala Dragos <gala_dragos@...> Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: > >> Sony/Tektronix 318 manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@... Date: > >> Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 11:28 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Well that 20ns clock is missing in the diagnostics menu as well. TYPE ID is only > >> tested at startup, I've just checked that by soldering a wire across W118 and > >> removing it (with a switch) when I entered the trigger menu. When W118 is jumpered > >> at startup the instrument is a 338 until next startup (or MPU reset). The 20ns > >> clock is no where to be seen no matter the if W118 is soldered or not. > >> > >> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> wrote: > >> > >> From: sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Sony/Tektronix 318 > >> manual with full schematic To: TekScopes@... Date: Wednesday, March > >> 13, 2013, 6:32 AM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Comments inline... > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In TekScopes@..., Gala Dragos wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I have that manual, I cannot find half of A02 board. > >> > >> > >> > >> You're right! page <4> is missing! The doc looked pretty good to me when I first > >> looked at it. ;) > >> > >> > >> > >> That being said, my dead-tree version that is truly complete has the following > >> circuits: > >> > >> > >> > >> 1) External clock input buffer with its threshold comparator/delay circuit. > >> > >> 2) Internal/external clock select logic. > >> > >> 3) Some buffers for qualifiers. > >> > >> 4) Threshold buffer amplifiers for the pods. > >> > >> 5) The signal routing to get one pod connector's differential signals to the > >> interconnect header for the A01's differential to ECL signal w/ glitch detection > >> circuits. (one pod is handled on A01, one pod on A02) > >> > >> > >> > >> For the problems you're experiencing, it probably won't help much, if any. > >> > >> > >> > >>> The full symptoms are these:- 20ns clock? disappeared;- there are 4 selectable > >>> groups in the setup screen;- each group has 16 bits available for display;- only > >>> 2 pods can be selected for input (pod A and pod B), the rest are unavailable; > >> > >> > >> > >> By that, I think you mean that groups 3 & 4 are disabled by default, and you can > >> only enter signals A0-7 or B0-7 into groups. > >> > >> > >> > >> Correct? > >> > >> > >> > >>> - all tests pass, including acq and sram;- the pods are capturing external > >>> signals properly (checked them with the available calibration output); > >> > >> > >> > >> This would imply that upon power-up, it *does* ID itself as a 318. > >> > >> > >> > >>> I have noticed that the instrument can be "used" without the? acquisition? > >>> board, albeit you can only browse the menus. > >> > >> > >> > >> Not surprising, since much of the hardware is write only or limited in how the CPU > >> can interact with it. > >> > >> > >> > >>> Excerpt from the manual:? "The chip select latch (A04U114) is used to enable > >>> each 8-bit pair of the acquisition memory and for identifying instrument type. > >>> It is written by the MPU with the WRITE BS signal from the A03 ACQ Control > >>> board." > >> > >> > >> > >>> I have checked that circuit for continuity of traces and they are all ok. On the > >>> schematic there is a jumper wire called W118 which in the 338 is mounted and in > >>> the 318 is not mounted, checked that as well and it is not mounted. > >> > >> > >> > >> Since you've checked the signal connections, it sounds like a hardware failure in > >> one or more chips. > >> > >> > >> > >> Consider the following (I have no idea how they wrote the firmware, so I have to > >> make some educated guesses): > >> > >> > >> > >> The Bank Select pin used for Type ID is "wire-OR'ed" with the ACQ/Glitch Memory > >> output data bus, which has pull-up/termination resistors to bring the bus to a > >> known inactive state. > >> > >> > >> > >> Since the 318 has the jumper removed, then when the ID bank bit is driven active, > >> the signal to be read *should* be in the "inactive" state. > >> > >> > >> > >> If one of the ACQ/Glitch SRAM's were to drive this pin to a "active" state, then > >> the bit will be incorrectly read (there is also some status bits that are selected > >> by the 2-1 muxes, so something could be wrong there too). > >> > >> > >> > >> When would this happen? > >> > >> > >> > >> Apparently, not on power-up, as it knows to be a 318 for pod count and memory to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> But perhaps when you enter the Trigger menu and start moving the clock rate, then > >> the firmware *might* check the hardware jumper state again, read the wrong > >> information, and prevent selecting the highest clock rate. > >> > >> > >> > >> This is just a guess, but it would be easy to check- > >> > >> > >> > >> Solder a jumper wire onto the W118 pad on the latch side for probing with a scope, > >> and check for activity by the CPU to drive it active (to read the ID TYPE). The > >> signal will be fairly slow, as it is driven active across several instructions, > >> and thus will be in the micro-second range, unlike the sampling circuitry. Not an > >> ideal situation for signal integrity, but then I doubt you have a pair of extender > >> cards handy (made of unobtanium). > >> > >> > >> > >> I think the signals in this area are ECL, so the logic transition delta is about > >> 0.8V between 1's and 0's, and does not go to either "ground" or V- (ECL is > >> technically a -5.2V logic family). > >> > >> > >> > >> Explore the operation of the analyzer, and note when the signal goes active. Try > >> various menus, field changes, etc. to see when the CPU fiddles with this signal. > >> You might also look at when the Bank Select Latch is clocked too. > >> > >> > >> > >> You could check some other signals from the bank latch and the read side as sanity > >> checks if necessary. > >> > >> > >> > >> I can't think of any other explanation as to why you can't select 20 nS clock. > >> > >> > >> > >> Good luck. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sbirdasn. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > br>> >

Can't find anything on what to look at for this error. I did measure the 3.0V lithium battery on the backplane and it is dead, and many of the 22uf 35v solid electrolytics are leaking.
I bought this on ebay for $650 supposedly working with the option to return, but the seller is willing to cover some repair cost. Would it be worth fixing if i can get it for $325?
Not knowing what this error means could possibly make this a $650 boat anchor.

?

----- Original Message -----

From: g_kupka

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:42 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?

?

?

Jerry,

I replaced the bridge rectifier CR15 and the two main caps C16 and C17 in the line input section, the two switching transisors Q36 and Q40 in the inverter section, the rectifier diodes and all caps in the rectifier section. The PSIU will not run.

Gerhard


--- In TekScopes@..., jerry massengale <j_massengale@...> wrote:
>
> Gerhard,
>
> I looked at the 7103 PSU and I see no reason for it not to run with the crt missing. I think you must have a PSU that would not run in any case. When you say there are no shorts or tants on the board, are you talking about the low voltage regulator only? The rectifier board that drives the low voltage board often has shorted or open caps. Make sure it is good. The aluminum caps are often open.
>
> The archives have a wealth of info on troubleshooting. You have plenty of guys and gals eager to help.
>
> Before you go too far, You might want to try adjusting the -50V pot to see if the psu will start running.
>
> What plugins are installed. You may not have enough load.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jerry Massengale
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: g_kupka <ghm1@...>
> To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
> Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 4:53 am
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?
>
>
>
>
>
> Who can help?
>
> Gerhard
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "g_kupka" wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't run. It is in a 1Hz tick mode.
> > There are no tantals and no short circuits on th board.
> > Gerhard
> >
> > --- In TekScopes@..., Don Black wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you would need to insulate the high voltage lead that normally
> > > plugs into the ultor on the tube side. I think it has about 24 kV on it,
> > > that will jump across a considerable gap. It will need something more
> > > than just a bit of insulation tape wrapped around it. Perhaps some
> > > plastic tubing over the end, then put the end in a glass jar and keep it
> > > away from the chassis, circuitry, etc. This is close to the final
> > > voltage in a CRT color TV set. There is also a couple of kV at the tube
> > > socket so keep that clear of anything too.
> > >
> > > Don Black.
> > >
> > > On 06-Mar-13 1:57 AM, jerry massengale wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gerhard,
> > > >
> > > > I have not tried it but I would assume it would run fine. It may need
> > > > to have plugins installed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry Massengale
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: g_kupka
> > > > To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
> > > > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 8:13 am
> > > > Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, the title was wrong.
> > > > The right title is:
> > > >
> > > > Does the PSU of the R7103 run without a CRT?
> > > >
> > > > Gerhard
> > > >
> > > > --- In TekScopes@... <mailto:TekScopes%40yahoogroups.com>;,
> > > > "g_kupka" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a R7103 mainframe without CRT.
> > > > > Now I can get a CRT for the R7103. But before I buy the CRT I will
> > > > check whether mainframe is ok. And there my question:
> > > > > Will the PSU run without a CRT?
> > > > > Gerhard
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: g_kupka

To: TekScopes@...

Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:42 PM

Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?

?

Jerry,

I replaced the bridge rectifier CR15 and the two main caps C16 and C17 in the line input section, the two switching transisors Q36 and Q40 in the inverter section, the rectifier diodes and all caps in the rectifier section. The PSIU will not run.

Gerhard


--- In TekScopes@..., jerry massengale wrote:
>
> Gerhard,
>
> I looked at the 7103 PSU and I see no reason for it not to run with the crt missing. I think you must have a PSU that would not run in any case. When you say there are no shorts or tants on the board, are you talking about the low voltage regulator only? The rectifier board that drives the low voltage board often has shorted or open caps. Make sure it is good. The aluminum caps are often open.
>
> The archives have a wealth of info on troubleshooting. You have plenty of guys and gals eager to help.
>
> Before you go too far, You might want to try adjusting the -50V pot to see if the psu will start running.
>
> What plugins are installed. You may not have enough load.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jerry Massengale
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: g_kupka
> To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
> Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 4:53 am
> Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?
>
>
>
>
>
> Who can help?
>
> Gerhard
>
> --- In TekScopes@..., "g_kupka" wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't run. It is in a 1Hz tick mode.
> > There are no tantals and no short circuits on th board.
> > Gerhard
> >
> > --- In TekScopes@..., Don Black wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you would need to insulate the high voltage lead that normally
> > > plugs into the ultor on the tube side. I think it has about 24 kV on it,
> > > that will jump across a considerable gap. It will need something more
> > > than just a bit of insulation tape wrapped around it. Perhaps some
> > > plastic tubing over the end, then put the end in a glass jar and keep it
> > > away from the chassis, circuitry, etc. This is close to the final
> > > voltage in a CRT color TV set. There is also a couple of kV at the tube
> > > socket so keep that clear of anything too.
> > >
> > > Don Black.
> > >
> > > On 06-Mar-13 1:57 AM, jerry massengale wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gerhard,
> > > >
> > > > I have not tried it but I would assume it would run fine. It may need
> > > > to have plugins installed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry Massengale
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: g_kupka
> > > > To: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
> > > > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 8:13 am
> > > > Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Does the the PSU of the R7103 without a CRT?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, the title was wrong.
> > > > The right title is:
> > > >
> > > > Does the PSU of the R7103 run without a CRT?
> > > >
> > > > Gerhard
> > > >
> > > > --- In TekScopes@... ;,
> > > > "g_kupka" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a R7103 mainframe without CRT.
> > > > > Now I can get a CRT for the R7103. But before I buy the CRT I will
> > > > check whether mainframe is ok. And there my question:
> > > > > Will the PSU run without a CRT?
> > > > > Gerhard
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>