Good point, I forgot your 1S1 is already 50 ohms. What is the period of that ringing? That may help locate something that's the right electrical length. Track on the probe PC board maybe?
I agree, no way should an SMA connector cause that kind of aberration.
I want a TinySA too :)
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On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 1:39 PM adesilva_1999 via groups.io <adesilva_1999= [email protected]> wrote: If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor
bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them
and see how much they would charge.
The problem is that it appears the stator is wound around the rotor, encapsulating the bearings within the stator. Matt D'Asaro wrote an article on how to replace the bearings on one of those, and it involves essentially a full motor rewind: . Be patient and this will/may load from archive.org, as unfortunately the original article references now-dead image links :/.
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Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
That's good to know- I don't think I've heard that before.
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wednesday, April 7, 2021, 11:02:10 AM PDT, Dave Wise <david_wise@...> wrote: At least in the old days (500 series), if the wire is carrying a supply rail, it's color-coded with an approximation of the voltage.? Examples: -150V is black with brown and green stripes; +225 is white with two red stripes. Dave Wise From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Amaranth via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:39 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid". I finally realized a couple months ago that the colors on multicolored ribbon cable actually meant something other than just identifying separate wires. Standard resistor color code, duh. Start with brown on pin 1 and you're golden. The color coding on Tek wiring is very useful, particularly if you have to pull a board for some reason. Inventory must have been a headache though. I've had some equipment where all the wires are black and, if you're lucky, there may be an ID printed in 2 point type in white ink that may or may not be readable. Paul On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 12:27:08PM -0400, n4buq wrote: I agree with Michael. I always looked at the striping as just a means of identifying a wire from one end of a cable to the other and hadn't thought about the color codes indicating a pin number, etc.
I know HP usually notated the stripes on the schematics and that also helps troubleshooting but not sure if any of those correspond to anything such as a pin number, etc., on the boards. I'll have to remember to take a closer look at that the next time I have one of them open and see if I can determine any correlation.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
Time to give away another secret:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Raymond
Raymond,
When I read your comments, such as above, I realize just how little I
actually know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I will never
look at those wires and stripes the same way, going forward.
Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
!DSPAM:606ddd6748531196043745!
-- Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
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McMaster Carr has 946 different sizes of Oil-Embedded Sleeve Bearings. One might fit with minor adjustments.
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Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
At least in the old days (500 series), if the wire is carrying a supply rail, it's color-coded with an approximation of the voltage. Examples: -150V is black with brown and green stripes; +225 is white with two red stripes. Dave Wise From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Amaranth via groups.io Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 9:39 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid". I finally realized a couple months ago that the colors on multicolored ribbon cable actually meant something other than just identifying separate wires. Standard resistor color code, duh. Start with brown on pin 1 and you're golden. The color coding on Tek wiring is very useful, particularly if you have to pull a board for some reason. Inventory must have been a headache though. I've had some equipment where all the wires are black and, if you're lucky, there may be an ID printed in 2 point type in white ink that may or may not be readable. Paul On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 12:27:08PM -0400, n4buq wrote: I agree with Michael. I always looked at the striping as just a means of identifying a wire from one end of a cable to the other and hadn't thought about the color codes indicating a pin number, etc.
I know HP usually notated the stripes on the schematics and that also helps troubleshooting but not sure if any of those correspond to anything such as a pin number, etc., on the boards. I'll have to remember to take a closer look at that the next time I have one of them open and see if I can determine any correlation.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
Time to give away another secret:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Raymond
Raymond,
When I read your comments, such as above, I realize just how little I
actually know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I will never
look at those wires and stripes the same way, going forward.
Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
!DSPAM:606ddd6748531196043745!
-- Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
|
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 07:39 PM, <adesilva_1999@...> wrote:
If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor
bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them and
see how much they would charge.
Never tried. I might still do that, motors still in a box, I think. Thanks for the suggestion! Raymond
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I didn't use the 50 ohm terminator when plugging directly into the 1S1 because I thought that would be too much load, since the 1S1 already provides 50 ohms of load. However, I tried to replicate the setup as best I could by adding in an equivalent number of SMA adapters, including the tee (with an open end where the 50 ohm terminator was). SMA adapters don't seem to change the waveform noticeably. So I don't think the setup itself is causing the ringing, unless the 0.25 inch unshielded line running from the SMA socket to the solder pad of the probe's input is the culprit.
I already wanted a NanoVNA, but now I feel compelled to also own an TinySA. I need more gift-giving holidays in the calendar.
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If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them and see how much they would charge.
|
Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
I finally realized a couple months ago that the colors on multicolored ribbon cable actually meant something other than just identifying separate wires. Standard resistor color code, duh. Start with brown on pin 1 and you're golden.
The color coding on Tek wiring is very useful, particularly if you have to pull a board for some reason. Inventory must have been a headache though.
I've had some equipment where all the wires are black and, if you're lucky, there may be an ID printed in 2 point type in white ink that may or may not be readable.
Paul
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 12:27:08PM -0400, n4buq wrote: I agree with Michael. I always looked at the striping as just a means of identifying a wire from one end of a cable to the other and hadn't thought about the color codes indicating a pin number, etc.
I know HP usually notated the stripes on the schematics and that also helps troubleshooting but not sure if any of those correspond to anything such as a pin number, etc., on the boards. I'll have to remember to take a closer look at that the next time I have one of them open and see if I can determine any correlation.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
Time to give away another secret:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Raymond
Raymond,
When I read your comments, such as above, I realize just how little I
actually know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I will never
look at those wires and stripes the same way, going forward.
Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
!DSPAM:606ddd6748531196043745!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
|
Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
I agree with Michael. I always looked at the striping as just a means of identifying a wire from one end of a cable to the other and hadn't thought about the color codes indicating a pin number, etc.
I know HP usually notated the stripes on the schematics and that also helps troubleshooting but not sure if any of those correspond to anything such as a pin number, etc., on the boards. I'll have to remember to take a closer look at that the next time I have one of them open and see if I can determine any correlation.
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Time to give away another secret:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Raymond
Raymond,
When I read your comments, such as above, I realize just how little I
actually know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I will never
look at those wires and stripes the same way, going forward.
Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
|
Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 05:25 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
Time to give away another secret:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Raymond
Raymond, When I read your comments, such as above, I realize just how little I actually know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I will never look at those wires and stripes the same way, going forward. Sincerely, -- Michael Lynch Dardanelle, AR
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That's a lot of ringing (and it persists for a long time, too)!
For the "direct" test, did you also have the tee with the 50 ohm terminator attached? (Is the ringing from the probe itself or from the setup)?
I may still buy one and tinker with it... I have sine-wave sources up to 920 MHz, and of course my 300-ish ps avalanche pulser.
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Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 05:00 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
The background color is not used and yes, below 10 only one color is printed
on the (white) background.
Correction: The background color is not *printed*, so a straight white wire would indicate pin 9. Tek avoided this by not using pin 9 on the 465's CRT -;). Raymond
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Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 04:43 PM, Jim Adney wrote:
The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why?
Because, using the resistor color code, brown-white translates to 12, the CRT
pin number it goes to. And for pins 1-9, I'll bet there will be only one
stripe.
Nice catch, I wouldn't have gotten it without your hint. Was this standard Tek
practice?
Using the resistor color code, brown-white would translate to 19. The brown-red combination on a white background indicates 12 - or 21. The CRT socket however only has 14 pins. The background color is not used and yes, below 10 only one color is printed on the (white) background. Yes, this was standard Tek. Often, the harmonica connectors (the linear ones, pushed onto rows of pins on a PCB) are molded in colors indicating the last digit of the socket number. HP (Agilent) had a similar habit, using color codes for the PCB ejectors. Raymond
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Re: 0.25R resistor in calibrator ground
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 3:35 PM Albert Otten <aodiversen@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 05:17 PM, cmjones01 wrote:
I couldn't find any information in the manuals as to why this resistor
is there. Why is it? To avoid ground loops?
561B (mentioned by keantoken) manual page 3-5 bottom left: "R183, which is about ten times the resistance of the braid of a 42-inch coax cable, cancels any ground loop current that may exist between the CAL OUT connector and some other instrument chassis." I didn't look in other manuals.
Thank you for confirming this, Albert. My previous message got somewhat mangled in transit so I'll try to post the text again here: Further to this discussion on the 0.25R anti-ground-loop resistor on tube-era calibrator outputs, I looked further in to why my 127's calibrator output ground seemed to be open-circuit. It turned out that there was actually a manufacturing error. There's an arrangement of plastic bushes and fibre washers to keep the calibrator socket's outer from being in contact with the front panel. In my 127, one of the fibre washers was in the wrong place, so the bottom of the volts/millivolts divider chain was connected to chassis ground, and both ends of the 0.25R resistor R898 were also connected to chassis ground. The calibrator socket outer wasn't connected to anything at all. It was completely floating. The paint seals on the screws were still intact, so it must have left the factory that way in 1960. The only reason I noticed is that in my office the power sockets have no ground connection, so when by chance I powered the 127 from a different outlet to the scope I was testing it with, they had no common ground connection via their power cables. Trying to view the calibrator output it seemed to be imposed on about 100V of mains hum, which I blamed on a faulty cable. But the cable was blameless. It was an actual Tek assembly error! I guess nobody had ever noticed due to never having tried to connect the calibrator to an ungrounded device. I've moved the offending washer now and the wiring matches the schematic diagram. It all works as it should now. Chris
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Re: Early 465 CRT "mesh" or "Post Accelerator Grid".
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 05:25 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote: The wire actually is white, with a brown and a red stripe. Guess why? Because, using the resistor color code, brown-white translates to 12, the CRT pin number it goes to. And for pins 1-9, I'll bet there will be only one stripe. Nice catch, I wouldn't have gotten it without your hint. Was this standard Tek practice?
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Re: 0.25R resistor in calibrator ground
On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 05:17 PM, cmjones01 wrote:
I couldn't find any information in the manuals as to why this resistor
is there. Why is it? To avoid ground loops?
561B (mentioned by keantoken) manual page 3-5 bottom left: "R183, which is about ten times the resistance of the braid of a 42-inch coax cable, cancels any ground loop current that may exist between the CAL OUT connector and some other instrument chassis." I didn't look in other manuals. Albert
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Re: 7D15 internal trigger not working
Received the 7603 trigger select board and swapped the suspect IC, U2404. My 7704A is now fully functional for trigger. R2409 measures 910 ohms as it should. The voltage on pin 11, the common substrate voltage for the 2 ICs is now -4.1V as on the schematic.
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These Siemens motors can be found NIB occasionally. Here¡¯s one: .
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Re: 0.25R resistor in calibrator ground
Further to this discussion on the 0.25R anti-ground-loop resistor on
tube-era calibrator outputs, I looked further in to why my 127's
calibrator output ground seemed to be open-circuit.
It turned out that there was actually a manufacturing error. There's
an arrangement of plastic bushes and fibre washers to keep the
calibrator socket's outer from being in contact with the front panel.
In my 127, one of the fibre washers was in the wrong place, so the
bottom of the volts/millivolts divider chain was connected to chassis
ground, and both ends of the 0.25R resistor R898 were also connected
to chassis ground. The calibrator socket outer wasn't connected to
anything at all. It was completely floating. The paint seals on the
screws were still intact, so it must have left the factory that way in
1960.
The only reason I noticed is that in my office the power sockets have
no ground connection, so when by chance I powered the 127 from a
different outlet to the scope I was testing it with, they had no
common ground connection via their power cables. Trying to view the
calibrator output it seemed to be imposed on about 100V of mains hum,
which I blamed on a faulty cable. But the cable was blameless. It was
an actual Tek assembly error! I guess nobody had ever noticed due to
never having tried to connect the calibrator to an ungrounded device.
I've moved the offending washer now and the wiring matches the
schematic diagram. It all works as it should now.
Chris
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 6:49 PM Dave Wise <david_wise@...> wrote:
?Exactly. High-gain plugins (Type B, D, etc) were seeing hum on the calibrator. The resistor made the bottom ranges usable.
In the 535 Mod Summary, it's Mod #1412, effective S/N 5001.
Dave Wise
My "S/N 75" 535-535A prototype needs this mod.
________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of keantoken via groups.io <keantoken@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:28 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 0.25R resistor in calibrator ground
I noticed the same resistor, also open, on my 561B! On Thursday, March 25, 2021, 11:18:00 AM CDT, cmjones01 <chris@...> wrote:
I've just noticed something odd about the calibrator outputs on my
535A scope and 127 plugin power supply. They both have a 0.25R
resistor in series with the calibrator socket's ground connection. The
reason I noticed is that the 127's resistor is open-circuit, so
connecting the calibrator to another piece of equipment left the
ground disconnected, with the expected symptoms.
I couldn't find any information in the manuals as to why this resistor
is there. Why is it? To avoid ground loops?
Chris
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Raymond Domp Frank
Michael W. Lynch