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Bill any chance you remember or saved receipts on covering materials for your Buttercup? I see Wicks has their end of year sale. Even just amount of fabric and poly tack and polybrush would be helpful.?
Jim
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-------- Original message -------- From: "WILLIAM via groups.io" <bbernard1945@...> Date: 12/12/24 9:51 AM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
Jim, I bought a cowl from Brian Alley for my Buttercup. It was for a Tailwind and required a lot of modifications to fit
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If you haven't built the fuselage yet making the firewall station the same as a Tailwind would save a lot of work.
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For what it's worth.
?
Bill Bernard
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On 12/06/2024 5:39 PM CST Jim Schmidt <jim47ex@...> wrote:
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I agree on the hinged cowl. My only complaint about my RV6 which is very similar to a tailwind cowl is how hard it is to get off and on for maintenance.? Much thought? will be put into Buttercup cowl design. Will take ideas from original as it has hinged sections on both sides like that W8. Not looking forward to the sheet metal fabrication and custom fiberglass work with no drawings or dimensions.?
?
?
?
?
?
-------- Original message --------
From: "keith via groups.io" <keithdornseif@...>
Date: 12/5/24 7:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
?
I like that hinged top cowl.
?
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Came across this for sale in my perusal of area auction sites ...
Maybe it has been listed elsewhere or the owner is a member here , but thought I would pass it on .
NOT MY AIRCRAFT ,? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT .
it seems to be a few hours north of me.
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Jim I used 36 yds of Ceconite fabric, C-102-3,
7 gallons of poly brush,
5 gallons of poly spray,
4 gallons of polytone plus a quart of grey for interior,
3 quarts of polytak cement, and7 gallons of reducer
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I also used 5 rolls of 2"" tape,
1 roll of 4" tape,
2 rolls of 3 " tape and
1 roll of bias cut tape
I bought a yard of 1.7 oz fabric to reinforce inspection rings, and drain grommets and a roll of rib lace cord and a roll of reinforcing tape
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Hope this helps.
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Bill
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P.S. I used a HVLP spray gun and I think that cut down on the coating use quite a bit.
?
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On 12/13/2024 8:08 PM CST Jim Schmidt <jim47ex@...> wrote:
?
?
Bill any chance you remember or saved receipts on covering materials for your Buttercup?
I see Wicks has their end of year sale. Even just amount of fabric and poly tack and polybrush would be helpful.?
?
Jim
?
?
?
?
?
-------- Original message --------
From: "WILLIAM via groups.io" <bbernard1945@...>
Date: 12/12/24 9:51 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
?
Jim, I bought a cowl from Brian Alley for my Buttercup. It was for a Tailwind and required a lot of modifications to fit
?
If you haven't built the fuselage yet making the firewall station the same as a Tailwind would save a lot of work.
?
For what it's worth.
?
Bill Bernard
?
On 12/06/2024 5:39 PM CST Jim Schmidt <jim47ex@...> wrote:
?
?
I agree on the hinged cowl. My only complaint about my RV6 which is very similar to a tailwind cowl is how hard it is to get off and on for maintenance.? Much thought? will be put into Buttercup cowl design. Will take ideas from original as it has hinged sections on both sides like that W8. Not looking forward to the sheet metal fabrication and custom fiberglass work with no drawings or dimensions.?
?
?
?
?
?
-------- Original message --------
From: "keith via groups.io" <keithdornseif@...>
Date: 12/5/24 7:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
?
I like that hinged top cowl.
?
?
Came across this for sale in my perusal of area auction sites ...
Maybe it has been listed elsewhere or the owner is a member here , but thought I would pass it on .
NOT MY AIRCRAFT ,? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT .
it seems to be a few hours north of me.
|
That is excellent information, thank you , thank you for that.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "WILLIAM via groups.io" <bbernard1945@...> Date: 12/14/24 3:43 PM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Covering material quantities
Jim I used 36 yds of Ceconite fabric, C-102-3,
7 gallons of poly brush,
5 gallons of poly spray,
4 gallons of polytone plus a quart of grey for interior,
3 quarts of polytak cement, and7 gallons of reducer
?
I also used 5 rolls of 2"" tape,
1 roll of 4" tape,
2 rolls of 3 " tape and
1 roll of bias cut tape
I bought a yard of 1.7 oz fabric to reinforce inspection rings, and drain grommets and a roll of rib lace cord and a roll of reinforcing tape
?
Hope this helps.
?
Bill
?
P.S. I used a HVLP spray gun and I think that cut down on the coating use quite a bit.
?
?
On 12/13/2024 8:08 PM CST Jim Schmidt <jim47ex@...> wrote:
?
?
Bill any chance you remember or saved receipts on covering materials for your Buttercup?
I see Wicks has their end of year sale. Even just amount of fabric and poly tack and polybrush would be helpful.?
?
Jim
?
?
?
?
?
-------- Original message --------
From: "WILLIAM via groups.io" <bbernard1945@...>
Date: 12/12/24 9:51 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
?
Jim, I bought a cowl from Brian Alley for my Buttercup. It was for a Tailwind and required a lot of modifications to fit
?
If you haven't built the fuselage yet making the firewall station the same as a Tailwind would save a lot of work.
?
For what it's worth.
?
Bill Bernard
?
On 12/06/2024 5:39 PM CST Jim Schmidt <jim47ex@...> wrote:
?
?
I agree on the hinged cowl. My only complaint about my RV6 which is very similar to a tailwind cowl is how hard it is to get off and on for maintenance.? Much thought? will be put into Buttercup cowl design. Will take ideas from original as it has hinged sections on both sides like that W8. Not looking forward to the sheet metal fabrication and custom fiberglass work with no drawings or dimensions.?
?
?
?
?
?
-------- Original message --------
From: "keith via groups.io" <keithdornseif@...>
Date: 12/5/24 7:03 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] W8 in Devils lake ND
?
I like that hinged top cowl.
?
?
Came across this for sale in my perusal of area auction sites ...
Maybe it has been listed elsewhere or the owner is a member here , but thought I would pass it on .
NOT MY AIRCRAFT ,? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS AIRCRAFT .
it seems to be a few hours north of me.
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Before deciding on Stits I suggest you research some of JC's comments on covering.? Save yourself a lot of time with AirTech or Loehle systems.? Results are excellent.
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Your post suggests thet JC recommended Air Tech and Loehle. He DID NOT. Clement #10 has the same issues I.ve experienced on m y W10. Serious cracking on many areas of upper surfaces. My W10 is dacron with dope including the base white, PPG for trim and on wings, flaps and ailerons.
The only cover jobs that I have seen that hold up long term, are Poly Fiber.?
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Thirty years of Polyfiber with their brand of urethane color on my Cessna 140.? Always hangared.? Looks new still.?
On Sun, Dec 15, 2024 at 4:29?PM Tailwind14855 via <Tailwind14855= [email protected]> wrote: Your post suggests thet JC recommended Air Tech and Loehle. He DID NOT. Clement #10 has the same issues I.ve experienced on m y W10. Serious cracking on many areas of upper surfaces. My W10 is dacron with dope including the base white, PPG for trim and on wings, flaps and ailerons.
The only cover jobs that I have seen that hold up long term, are Poly Fiber.?
?
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Just saying: JClementOnFabric from files.
"Fabric is Ceconite 2.7 oz. from Wicks with Air Tech finishing system. Air Tech uses 2-3 coats of primer over the bare fabric, some sanding then color coat. Much faster and when finished less cost. Bob Danner used it on his TW and I did some of the painting, I liked it."
Did not say he recommended it just that he liked it.? Didn't really see a need for the capital letters.
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Not trying to push their product but I used the Superflite system and it was sooo much easier. the main reason was during Oshkosh airventure, they gave participating individuals a $500 voucher toward the purchase of their product and it was on par with other system prices. One coat primer and it included the UV protection then the topcoat (color) and it still looks wet even after 10 yrs mostly hangared though. I used their complete system (glue) with Dacron from ACS
On Monday, December 16, 2024 at 05:40:52 PM CST, jsnerstrom via groups.io <jsnerstrom@...> wrote:
Just saying: JClementOnFabric from files.
"Fabric is Ceconite 2.7 oz. from Wicks with Air Tech finishing system. Air Tech uses 2-3 coats of primer over the bare fabric, some sanding then color coat. Much faster and when finished less cost. Bob Danner used it on his TW and I did some of the painting, I liked it."
Did not say he recommended it just that he liked it.? Didn't really see a need for the capital letters.
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I can’t speak for earlier examples of JC tailwinds as I only met Jim after starting my Buttercup about 5 years ago. I ?flew over and visited several times a year during the ButterBurger and the long wing tailwind builds. I can’t speak to fabric and base coats but he told me the white ?top coat on long wing was some generic polyurethane that he got on sale from some resale or wholesale place. In true Wittman fashion Jim liked a deal and used what could be acquired frugally. I was told the gear legs were straightened rv legs from a crashed Rv, Earl told me ?Jim used some of the packing material wood in the construction of wing tips, I know the engine in the last iteration was a converted O-290 GPU unit that a mutual friend of ours from Salome found in CA. He used automotive parts from hot rod shops versus aircraft where ever possible. Not trying to speak ill of anyone but the most prolific builder in history used what was readily available at a good price and he had the talent and experience to apply it safely. ?You can tell in his posts that he learned and evolved ?and refined his recommendations with every ?new build experience. A true experimental home builder. Not saying he didn’t recommend other products in blog posts.
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On Dec 16, 2024, at 5:40?PM, jsnerstrom via groups.io <jsnerstrom@...> wrote:
? Just saying: JClementOnFabric from files.
"Fabric is Ceconite 2.7 oz. from Wicks with Air Tech finishing system. Air Tech uses 2-3 coats of primer over the bare fabric, some sanding then color coat. Much faster and when finished less cost. Bob Danner used it on his TW and I did some of the painting, I liked it."
Did not say he recommended it just that he liked it.? Didn't really see a need for the capital letters.
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Alex, do you have any cracking issues with the Superflite finish? Was it System 6 or 7? My Pacer is finished with Superflite System 6 and the finish looks great, but it is brittle and has cracks in certain areas. It was done 20 yrs ago and has been hangared the whole time. I know that is a long time and most finishes will probably start getting tired after 20 yrs, but I stopped at the Superflite booth at OSH last year and asked about the cracking and they said it was a primer issue with System 6 that has been corrected with System 7. ?Any thoughts? Thanks
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Dan, I believe mine is system 7, I only noticed a 1" small crack on the cowl scoop where the nose gear goes through and believe that happened because my nose gear is a little too close to the scoop (not enough clearance) other than that, no other cracks.
On Tuesday, December 17, 2024 at 08:03:30 AM CST, Dan Gidzinski via groups.io <dgidzinski@...> wrote:
Alex, do you have any cracking issues with the Superflite finish? Was it System 6 or 7? My Pacer is finished with Superflite System 6 and the finish looks great, but it is brittle and has cracks in certain areas. It was done 20 yrs ago and has been hangared the whole time. I know that is a long time and most finishes will probably start getting tired after 20 yrs, but I stopped at the Superflite booth at OSH last year and asked about the cracking and they said it was a primer issue with System 6 that has been corrected with System 7. ?Any thoughts? Thanks
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With two part ( polyurethane) coatings, make sure the activator isn’t more than a year old. Painted my Aeronca Chief with Aerothane years ago and experienced cracking along the stringers within a few years. When I contacted Polyfiber about it, that’s what their opinion was. My activator was a few years old, I had ordered it with all my other covering supplies?
-- Bob Matteson
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Alex Frizzell
Bob Matteson