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I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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For airbox to carb use drilled head screws or bolts. Safety the sides in pairs.
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 02:26:13 PM MST, James Stanton <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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Alex, I brought up the same question back in the early 70’s ?in my A&P school. The teachers answer =Just, Because that is what Lycoming says to do it. I then asked , Then why does Pratt & Whittney not do it? He said he did not know! So this is one of those questions that will never be answered!
I had one teacher that said There are 3 ways to answer a question on a FAA test. 1 The Right ?Way 2 The Wrong way? 3 The way the FAA wants you to answer
What I determined was the answer will either be the Longest, or the shortest or None of the above. But that was back in 73 when I took my Written tests. Now it is shorter.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 11, 2025, at 7:34?pm, Alex Frizzell via groups.io <carrxw10@...> wrote:
Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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John, I know the probable origin of that statement.? ?My father, an Army Air Corps squadron executive officer early in WWII,? frequently said:
"There's the right way, the wrong way and the Army way."
The implicatiion was that the first way was best, but compliance with the last was mamdatory no matter how arbitrary it seemed to be, a la Lycoming's instructions.
My thanks for helping dredge this up from distant memory!
On Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 8:26?PM John Haedtler via <johnhaedtler= mac.com@groups.io> wrote: Alex, I brought up the same question back in the early 70’s ?in my A&P school. The teachers answer =Just, Because that is what Lycoming says to do it. I then asked , Then why does Pratt & Whittney not do it? He said he did not know! So this is one of those questions that will never be answered!
I had one teacher that said There are 3 ways to answer a question on a FAA test. 1 The Right ?Way 2 The Wrong way? 3 The way the FAA wants you to answer
What I determined was the answer will either be the Longest, or the shortest or None of the above. But that was back in 73 when I took my Written tests. Now it is shorter.
John Haedtler
Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via <tailwind14855= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via <gregablake= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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For Experimental one can do anything they want. Were one rebuilding a Lycoming engine for a certified aircraft it is flat washer, star washer and nut. There seem to be exceptions for exhaust only. The star washer flat washer failures I have seen are the result of re using the star washer. if you torque the bolt/nut, then remove it, a new star washer must be used. for re assembly. I have been using hardware store stainless split lock washers with no flat washers on the exhaust only with good results so far. I have re used them multiple times. My thinking is that the exhaust flange is not likely to be damages by the lock washer. Aluminum parts are subject to damage from lock washers if the flat washer in not used. Interesting to note that Lycoming has not used any type of locking device on connecting rod bolts for over 50 years, maybe much longer.
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 10:25:09 PM MST, Dion Dyer via groups.io <ddrando@...> wrote:
John, I know the probable origin of that statement.? ?My father, an Army Air Corps squadron executive officer early in WWII,? frequently said:
"There's the right way, the wrong way and the Army way."
The implicatiion was that the first way was best, but compliance with the last was mamdatory no matter how arbitrary it seemed to be, a la Lycoming's instructions.
My thanks for helping dredge this up from distant memory!
On Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 8:26?PM John Haedtler via <johnhaedtler= mac.com@groups.io> wrote: Alex, I brought up the same question back in the early 70’s ?in my A&P school. The teachers answer =Just, Because that is what Lycoming says to do it. I then asked , Then why does Pratt & Whittney not do it? He said he did not know! So this is one of those questions that will never be answered!
I had one teacher that said There are 3 ways to answer a question on a FAA test. 1 The Right ?Way 2 The Wrong way? 3 The way the FAA wants you to answer
What I determined was the answer will either be the Longest, or the shortest or None of the above. But that was back in 73 when I took my Written tests. Now it is shorter.
John Haedtler
Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via <tailwind14855= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via <gregablake= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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Funny, My Dad was a Pilot in the Army Air Corp! He said what was driven into his brain during training was, “If it moves you solute it , if not you paint it!” Thanks for the memories!
John Haedtler
PS My Dad flew P-39’s and P-400’s In the South Pacific. When they got off the boat they saw the funny looking plane with a nose wheel. They all said what is that for? He Said that funny looking plane saved his life 3 times!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 11, 2025, at 11:24?pm, Dion Dyer via groups.io <ddrando@...> wrote:
John, I know the probable origin of that statement.? ?My father, an Army Air Corps squadron executive officer early in WWII,? frequently said:
"There's the right way, the wrong way and the Army way."
The implicatiion was that the first way was best, but compliance with the last was mamdatory no matter how arbitrary it seemed to be, a la Lycoming's instructions.
My thanks for helping dredge this up from distant memory! On Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 8:26?PM John Haedtler via ??<johnhaedtler= mac.com@groups.io> wrote: Alex, I brought up the same question back in the early 70’s ?in my A&P school. The teachers answer =Just, Because that is what Lycoming says to do it. I then asked , Then why does Pratt & Whittney not do it? He said he did not know! So this is one of those questions that will never be answered!
I had one teacher that said There are 3 ways to answer a question on a FAA test. 1 The Right ?Way 2 The Wrong way? 3 The way the FAA wants you to answer
What I determined was the answer will either be the Longest, or the shortest or None of the above. But that was back in 73 when I took my Written tests. Now it is shorter.
John Haedtler
Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via ??<tailwind14855= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via ??<gregablake= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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The carb to sump gasket is Lycoming Part number 66224
On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 11:50:48 AM MST, John Haedtler via groups.io <johnhaedtler@...> wrote:
Funny, My Dad was a Pilot in the Army Air Corp! He said what was driven into his brain during training was, “If it moves you solute it , if not you paint it!” Thanks for the memories!
John Haedtler
PS My Dad flew P-39’s and P-400’s In the South Pacific. When they got off the boat they saw the funny looking plane with a nose wheel. They all said what is that for? He Said that funny looking plane saved his life 3 times!
On Mar 11, 2025, at 11:24?pm, Dion Dyer via groups.io <ddrando@...> wrote:
John, I know the probable origin of that statement.? ?My father, an Army Air Corps squadron executive officer early in WWII,? frequently said:
"There's the right way, the wrong way and the Army way."
The implicatiion was that the first way was best, but compliance with the last was mamdatory no matter how arbitrary it seemed to be, a la Lycoming's instructions.
My thanks for helping dredge this up from distant memory! On Tue, Mar 11, 2025, 8:26?PM John Haedtler via ??<johnhaedtler= mac.com@groups.io> wrote: Alex, I brought up the same question back in the early 70’s ?in my A&P school. The teachers answer =Just, Because that is what Lycoming says to do it. I then asked , Then why does Pratt & Whittney not do it? He said he did not know! So this is one of those questions that will never be answered!
I had one teacher that said There are 3 ways to answer a question on a FAA test. 1 The Right ?Way 2 The Wrong way? 3 The way the FAA wants you to answer
What I determined was the answer will either be the Longest, or the shortest or None of the above. But that was back in 73 when I took my Written tests. Now it is shorter.
John Haedtler
Jim, not disputing your answer but something has always bothered me about the way as you stated "flat washer then star washer and nut. I know I have read that almost in every assy manual and I think it is even in the 43.13. Just looking at it from my machinist standpoint, if a flat washer is used, it negates the working of the star/lock washer. The star/lock washer should be against the body and the nut will lock down on it and it will not loosen, with the flat washer, the nut can loosen because the flat washer can turn on the body ...ok, I'm off my soap box......senile brain went to work for a moment....
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 04:26:17 PM CDT, Tailwind14855 via ??<tailwind14855= yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Between carb and sump is Lycoming part number. Between carb and airbox is airframe pn. I use Piper Cherokee pn. I don't have either pn handy. Lycoming is easy to find online. Any carb 0 320 works. Torque is 204inch pounds. Flat washer, star washer and plain nut.?
On Tuesday, March 11, 2025 at 01:47:11 PM MST, Greg Blake via ??<gregablake= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a question pertaining to the install of the carb onto both intake manifold and the air box? I'm assuming a gasket is used? Is there a gasket on both surfaces? Should any gasket sealant be used in addition, if so which type? Also what is an approx torque setting for the carb bolts on a ma3spa carb? Thank you all, greg
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Thank you all for the feedback! I have the ma3spa carb that is used on cessna 152 and I have been looking through various 152 maitenence manuels for information specifically for type of screws/bolts, torque, nuts, and gasket but cannot find the exact information. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. What are you all using to find this type of data?
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There are two oil sump carburetor mounting sizes.? A big and a little. One has 1/4” studs and the other has 5/16” studs.? Spacing is different
See below for photos of each.? An o-235 carb most likely willnit fit on an o320
Thank you all for the feedback! I have the ma3spa carb that is used on cessna 152 and I have been looking through various 152 maitenence manuels for information specifically for type of screws/bolts, torque, nuts, and gasket but cannot find the exact information. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. What are you all using to find this type of data?
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Greg, absolutely NO sealant on those gaskets, particularly, no RTV silicone. Gasoline dissolves RTV silicone.
On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 09:17:10 PM EDT, Christian Bobka via groups.io <blamebobka@...> wrote:
There are two oil sump carburetor mounting sizes.? A big and a little. One has 1/4” studs and the other has 5/16” studs.? Spacing is different
See below for photos of each.? An o-235 carb most likely willnit fit on an o320
Thank you all for the feedback! I have the ma3spa carb that is used on cessna 152 and I have been looking through various 152 maitenence manuels for information specifically for type of screws/bolts, torque, nuts, and gasket but cannot find the exact information. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. What are you all using to find this type of data?
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I attended an 8 hour seminar themed “why you don’t use rtv silicone on airplanes”.?
Greg, absolutely NO sealant on those gaskets, particularly, no RTV silicone. Gasoline dissolves RTV silicone.
On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 09:17:10 PM EDT, Christian Bobka via <blamebobka= gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
There are two oil sump carburetor mounting sizes.? A big and a little. One has 1/4” studs and the other has 5/16” studs.? Spacing is different
See below for photos of each.? An o-235 carb most likely willnit fit on an o320
Thank you all for the feedback! I have the ma3spa carb that is used on cessna 152 and I have been looking through various 152 maitenence manuels for information specifically for type of screws/bolts, torque, nuts, and gasket but cannot find the exact information. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. What are you all using to find this type of data?
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I would think using rtv in this area would be a no go, but without having maitenence manuel, I had to ask.
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Lycoming PN 60592 for Lycoming 0 235L series. It helps if you state engine model in first post. Also state whether W8 orW10.
On Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 02:21:02 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I would think using rtv in this area would be a no go, but without having maitenence manuel, I had to ask.
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The? O-235 uses the MPA 3 carb, MPA 4 for the O-320 and MPA 4.5 for O-360 engines. FYI, I have digitized an old VHS factory video on how to overhaul the Marvel Schebler style carbs. It's to big for an email attachment. I have it up on my Dropbox site. If interested, contact me via email and I will share that folder with you. What engine [exact model please] are you using? I have overhaul manuals and parts catalogs for all the Lycoming engines.
Charlie
On Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 05:59:07 PM EDT, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
Lycoming PN 60592 for Lycoming 0 235L series. It helps if you state engine model in first post. Also state whether W8 orW10.
On Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 02:21:02 PM MST, Greg Blake via groups.io <gregablake@...> wrote:
I would think using rtv in this area would be a no go, but without having maitenence manuel, I had to ask.
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What are most people using to seal around? the airbox and the carb bowl where the drain plug and accelerator pump "bumps out"?? ?There are always some irregular openings there.? See the attached pic.? ?
?
Keith
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Keith-
who built the Baraboo W10??
On Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 03:14:42 PM MST, Keith Klos via groups.io <kloskeith@...> wrote:
What are most people using to seal around? the airbox and the carb bowl where the drain plug and accelerator pump "bumps out"?? ?There are always some irregular openings there.? See the attached pic.? ?
?
Keith
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Having an OEM engine maintenance manual would be a good idea.?
I would think using rtv in this area would be a no go, but without having maitenence manuel, I had to ask.
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Greg Blake
Alex Frizzell
Keith Klos
