Hose for Oil Cooler - Source & Type
What type of oil cooler hose should I get for a Lyc O-360? Spruce has many types (of hose material) but I don't know which to get.
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Re: Flap setting for take off
Thanks for the great input Keith.? Good info.
I have not tried two notches for takeoff on my Tailwind yet.? Might give it a go when I get back up north in the spring, just to see how it does compared to my usual one-notch takeoff.?
As you can tell by my comments, my plane has three notches of flaps.? I have not actually measured the deflection, so I am not sure whether it is 10,20, and 30 degrees or some other increments.? Another project for the spring!?
As an aside, I cannot get full flaps in flight.? Due to the geometry of the flap lever combined with my arthritic right shoulder, I just don't have the muscle or leverage to get that third notch, even when slowed down to pattern speeds.? So as a result I have been landing with the second notch, which works just fine.? But it would be interesting to see what full flaps does.?
The other thing about my plane is that the trim is not nearly strong enough to balance out the nose-down pitch change when adding flaps.? Full nose up trim and I still have to hold a lot of backpressure on the stick in order to stay on speed.? I am sure it would be even worse with full flaps.? Not hard to control, just a bit of a workout.? I guess I can use the exercise, so no worries.?
Joe
Ray,
I can't remember if I had tried 2 notches.? I want to say that I did and it really didn't help anything.? I think that perhaps after you get past 1 notch it is just pretty much all drag.? ? ?I will try it next time I fly and see what happens.? ? I almost always land with full flaps even in a strong crosswind.?
?
As an aside I have tried "reflexing" the flaps in cruise flight to see the effect.? ?Some claim that on some airplanes reflexing the flaps a little will increase speed.? ? ?I can say that it definitely does NOT add speed to my airplane.? When I built my plane my flap linkage allowed so that I could get about 1+ degree or so (guessing) of reflex. I did not create another hole in the arm but rather can just hold the flap lever down.? Before I put in the AP? I would try it but wasn't able to really tell cause it would change the angle of attack slightly and then I would be all over the place in altitude so it was hard to tell the effect.? ?After I installed my AP and can set altitude hold,? ?I have tried it and it slows me down a couple of knots when I reflex the flaps.? It was an interesting experiment.
?
There were a number of other threads about this some time ago
?
Keith
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Re: Flap setting for take off
Thanks Keith, That¡¯s helpful.
Ray?
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On 23 Jan 2025, at 12:09, Keith Klos via groups.io <kloskeith@...> wrote:
? Ray,
I can't remember if I had tried 2 notches.? I want to say that I did and it really didn't help anything.? I think that perhaps after you get past 1 notch it is just pretty much all drag.? ? ?I will try it next time I fly and see what happens.? ? I almost always land with full flaps even in a strong crosswind.?
?
As an aside I have tried "reflexing" the flaps in cruise flight to see the effect.? ?Some claim that on some airplanes reflexing the flaps a little will increase speed.? ? ?I can say that it definitely does NOT add speed to my airplane.? When I built my plane my flap linkage allowed so that I could get about 1+ degree or so (guessing) of reflex. I did not create another hole in the arm but rather can just hold the flap lever down.? Before I put in the AP? I would try it but wasn't able to really tell cause it would change the angle of attack slightly and then I would be all over the place in altitude so it was hard to tell the effect.? ?After I installed my AP and can set altitude hold,? ?I have tried it and it slows me down a couple of knots when I reflex the flaps.? It was an interesting experiment.
?
There were a number of other threads about this some time ago
?
Keith
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Re: Calbie Wood Metal Wings
And Bill ¨C did you have fuel tanks in those wings? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of WILLIAM via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2025 7:01 AM
To: [email protected]; Smoky via groups.io <lowea1@...>
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Calbie Wood Metal Wings? I built metal wings for my Tailwind. IIRC they weighed 63 pounds per panel, including flaps and ailerons. On 01/22/2025 4:44 PM CST Smoky via groups.io <lowea1@...> wrote: Are Calbie Wood metal wings generally heavier than standard W10 wings?? I know, I know, somebody is going to say at what span?? Well I¡¯m pretty sure the Calbie Wood plans are for wings of only one length.? I guess Wittman wings have been made in several slightly different spans.? Anyway, please shoot me a comparison, if you will.? Thanks. ? Tony
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Re: Flap setting for take off
Ray,
I can't remember if I had tried 2 notches.? I want to say that I did and it really didn't help anything.? I think that perhaps after you get past 1 notch it is just pretty much all drag.? ? ?I will try it next time I fly and see what happens.? ? I almost always land with full flaps even in a strong crosswind.?
?
As an aside I have tried "reflexing" the flaps in cruise flight to see the effect.? ?Some claim that on some airplanes reflexing the flaps a little will increase speed.? ? ?I can say that it definitely does NOT add speed to my airplane.? When I built my plane my flap linkage allowed so that I could get about 1+ degree or so (guessing) of reflex. I did not create another hole in the arm but rather can just hold the flap lever down.? Before I put in the AP? I would try it but wasn't able to really tell cause it would change the angle of attack slightly and then I would be all over the place in altitude so it was hard to tell the effect.? ?After I installed my AP and can set altitude hold,? ?I have tried it and it slows me down a couple of knots when I reflex the flaps.? It was an interesting experiment.
?
There were a number of other threads about this some time ago
?
Keith
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Re: Calbie Wood Metal Wings
I built metal wings for my Tailwind. IIRC they weighed 63 pounds per panel, including flaps and ailerons.
?
Bill Bernard
On 01/22/2025 4:44 PM CST Smoky via groups.io <lowea1@...> wrote:
?
?
Are Calbie Wood metal wings generally heavier than standard W10 wings?? I know, I know, somebody is going to say at what span?? Well I¡¯m pretty sure the Calbie Wood plans are for wings of only one length.? I guess Wittman wings have been made in several slightly different spans.? Anyway, please shoot me a comparison, if you will.? Thanks.
?
Tony
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Re: Calbie Wood Metal Wings
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Haedtler via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2025 6:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Calbie Wood Metal Wings? I¡¯m not sure as to the weight difference, but performance wise, the wood wing is faster and stronger than the metal wing. This is the reason the Hughes Racer had a flush riveted fuselage and wood covered wings. For the speed and strength. John Haedtler
On Jan 22, 2025, at 3:44?pm, Smoky via groups.io <lowea1@...> wrote: ? Are Calbie Wood metal wings generally heavier than standard W10 wings?? I know, I know, somebody is going to say at what span?? Well I¡¯m pretty sure the Calbie Wood plans are for wings of only one length.? I guess Wittman wings have been made in several slightly different spans.? Anyway, please shoot me a comparison, if you will.? Thanks.
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Re: Calbie Wood Metal Wings
I¡¯m not sure as to the weight difference, but performance wise, the wood wing is faster and stronger than the metal wing. This is the reason the Hughes Racer had a flush riveted fuselage and wood covered wings. For the speed and strength.
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Show quoted text
On Jan 22, 2025, at 3:44?pm, Smoky via groups.io <lowea1@...> wrote:
Are Calbie Wood metal wings generally heavier than standard W10 wings?? I know, I know, somebody is going to say at what span?? Well I¡¯m pretty sure the Calbie Wood plans are for wings of only one length.? I guess Wittman wings have been made in several slightly different spans.? Anyway, please shoot me a comparison, if you will.? Thanks. ? Tony _._,_._,_
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Are Calbie Wood metal wings generally heavier than standard W10 wings?? I know, I know, somebody is going to say at what span?? Well I¡¯m pretty sure the Calbie Wood plans are for wings of only one length.? I guess Wittman wings have been made in several slightly different spans.? Anyway, please shoot me a comparison, if you will.? Thanks. ? Tony
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Hello all and thank you Doug for your insight. I fully appreciate everything you said.
I was thinking some place in between; not a full blown kit with every nut and bolt, but a good start to keep the build under a year of serious weekends. A basic set of assembly instructions that requires some actual thought, and no support other that the demos we would do on a website I'm building now. A good example is www.krsuper2.com where he shows you how he built his plane step by step. (He's still not done so there are instructions yet to be published). I guess I'm saying just the glass parts, maybe primary controls, and leave it to the builder to source everything else.
Power wise, I'd stick with C85-OXXX like Steve offered in the plans and let others pioneer alternatives. It's the E in EAA that defines the movement right?
You can use RV gear legs, there's plenty of wheel/brake guys out there.? ACS and Wicks fill the voids elsewhere.
This would be strictly for fun and the love of building things since I can't seem to sit still in my old age..?
All the best, Mike
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Re: Flap setting for take off
The flap control on my W8 is electric without any fixed intermediate positions (notches). Roughly what angle does the 2nd notch give?
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On 22 Jan 2025, at 21:05, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <Tailwind14855@...> wrote:
?
My W10 has the 23' wingspan compared to 24' plans built. I use second notch most of the time. The runway is rough and that gets me airborne a bit quicker. I retract the flaps immediately to first notch or zero so I can accelerate quicker for cooling. I have a total of 1' less flap span because of the shorter wings.
On Wednesday, January 22, 2025 at 01:06:38 PM MST, Ray Harper via groups.io <raydharper77@...> wrote:
Thanks Keith and Joe. Have either of you tried a little more flap, say 20 degrees? On 22 Jan 2025, at 14:36, Joe Norris via groups.io <joepilot13@...> wrote:
? On my W8 I have been using one notch of flaps (nominally 15 degrees) for takeoff, regardless of runway length.? that setting seems to provide a much cleaner liftoff, less ground roll, and better initial climb than taking off "clean".?
Ray,
I have never flown a W8 but on my W10,? I normally will use 1 notch of flaps on takeoff.? I believe that is about 15 degrees.? I don't use any more than that even when I need a short takeoff.? I don't use any less than that even if I have a long runway.? 1 notch seems to just be a little more comfortable on the liftoff and works pretty well.? ?Good luck with your flight.
Keith
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Re: Flap setting for take off
My W10 has the 23' wingspan compared to 24' plans built. I use second notch most of the time. The runway is rough and that gets me airborne a bit quicker. I retract the flaps immediately to first notch or zero so I can accelerate quicker for cooling. I have a total of 1' less flap span because of the shorter wings.
On Wednesday, January 22, 2025 at 01:06:38 PM MST, Ray Harper via groups.io <raydharper77@...> wrote:
Thanks Keith and Joe. Have either of you tried a little more flap, say 20 degrees?
On 22 Jan 2025, at 14:36, Joe Norris via groups.io <joepilot13@...> wrote:
? On my W8 I have been using one notch of flaps (nominally 15 degrees) for takeoff, regardless of runway length.? that setting seems to provide a much cleaner liftoff, less ground roll, and better initial climb than taking off "clean".?
Ray,
I have never flown a W8 but on my W10,? I normally will use 1 notch of flaps on takeoff.? I believe that is about 15 degrees.? I don't use any more than that even when I need a short takeoff.? I don't use any less than that even if I have a long runway.? 1 notch seems to just be a little more comfortable on the liftoff and works pretty well.? ?Good luck with your flight.
Keith
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Re: Flap setting for take off
Thanks Keith and Joe. Have either of you tried a little more flap, say 20 degrees?
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On 22 Jan 2025, at 14:36, Joe Norris via groups.io <joepilot13@...> wrote:
? On my W8 I have been using one notch of flaps (nominally 15 degrees) for takeoff, regardless of runway length.? that setting seems to provide a much cleaner liftoff, less ground roll, and better initial climb than taking off "clean".?
Ray,
I have never flown a W8 but on my W10,? I normally will use 1 notch of flaps on takeoff.? I believe that is about 15 degrees.? I don't use any more than that even when I need a short takeoff.? I don't use any less than that even if I have a long runway.? 1 notch seems to just be a little more comfortable on the liftoff and works pretty well.? ?Good luck with your flight.
Keith
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A LSA compliant Tailwind is an Oxymoron.
?
The typical modern Tailwind, with a big 320 cu in engine and an empty weight well above 800 lb, is certainly not going to qualify under LSA.
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However, the W-10 and the Sonex have similar wing dimensions (span and area), and there are hundreds of Sonex flying as LSA with the FAA not minding. So, if you build a W-10 extra light with about an 80 hp engine and a gross of 1100 lb or so, you should get away with it. Old NACA data suggests switching to the venerable USA 35-B airfoil would help a bit with the clean stall, and you'd want to up the chord 5% to better match the Sonex's area.
?
With MOSAIC, the speeds go up, and the task is much easier.
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Re: Flap setting for take off
On my W8 I have been using one notch of flaps (nominally 15 degrees) for takeoff, regardless of runway length.? that setting seems to provide a much cleaner liftoff, less ground roll, and better initial climb than taking off "clean".?
Ray,
I have never flown a W8 but on my W10,? I normally will use 1 notch of flaps on takeoff.? I believe that is about 15 degrees.? I don't use any more than that even when I need a short takeoff.? I don't use any less than that even if I have a long runway.? 1 notch seems to just be a little more comfortable on the liftoff and works pretty well.? ?Good luck with your flight.
Keith
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Joe you are correct, after discussing this with my local FAA inspector, he informed me that a pilot practicing under the light sport category, it would be determined by the individual pilot on whether or not he is maintaining his authority to fly based on characteristics of the given aircraft he is flying. MOSAIC's proposal for light sport regulation modification is due to kick of sometime this year, per last report, therefore many of our tailwinds will apply under the light sport pilots' capabilities. As they lie now, the stall speed and top cruise speed is the constraints in many instances. However, these will be increased this year with the modified regulations. I am excited to the number of tailwind pilots who might have been grounded r/t medical requirements as this will allow many to fly their dream aircraft that many blood sweat and tears were put into.?
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Re: Flap setting for take off
Ray,
I have never flown a W8 but on my W10,? I normally will use 1 notch of flaps on takeoff.? I believe that is about 15 degrees.? I don't use any more than that even when I need a short takeoff.? I don't use any less than that even if I have a long runway.? 1 notch seems to just be a little more comfortable on the liftoff and works pretty well.? ?Good luck with your flight.
Keith
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I recall talking about this 20 or so years ago and? I still feel the same way. While a Cub might not be questioned.......
A LSA compliant Tailwind is an Oxymoron.
With due respect,
Jack
On Sunday, January 19, 2025 at 12:48:50 PM EST, Joe Norris via groups.io <joepilot13@...> wrote:
You are correct.? Any aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft is eligible to be operated by sport pilots, regardless of what category the aircraft is certificated in. ? When it comes to Homebuilts, it is up to the builder or person performing the flight tests to carefully document the speeds.? However, if you make unreasonable claims the FAA will likely look to published performance figures to determine whether the aircraft is eligible or not.
Joe
On Sun, Jan 19, 2025 at 11:44?AM Karl Kleimenhagen via <kwk= [email protected]> wrote:
Experimental Light Sport is only available through kits that comply precisely with the SLS airframe sold by that mfgr but built by others.?
?
I think any EAB that was certified at LSA limits and remained so is legal for a Sport Pilot to fly. The trick might be establishing it met the clean stall and top speed limits. If you built a WagAero Cub or Vagabond and registered it at the 1320 LSA limit, I doubt anyone would question the speeds are out of limits.
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Flap setting for take off
I am nearing completion of a rebuild of a W8 with an O 200 engine. I shall be performing the first post rebuild flight from a 500 yrd strip and so would like to set the flaps to the very best short field angle. I¡¯m guessing about 15 degrees but can anyone give me guidance?
Regards, Ray
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On 20 Jan 2025, at 23:45, Mike Wilson via groups.io <mike_tailwind@...> wrote:
?
Also, cant the bow forward so that the bottom edge of the windshield can be cut square.? This makes fitting the windshield easier and simplifies the fairing at the bottom edge of the? windshield (no compound curves).
On Monday, January 20, 2025 at 04:16:43 PM CST, Keith Klos via groups.io <kloskeith@...> wrote:
Terry,
I raised the front windshield bow about 1 1/4 inches but would raise it higher if I were to do it again.? I say this for 2 reasons,? first as I look at other Tailwinds, their transition from cowl to windshield angle is less abrupt than mine and I think mine carries a speed penalty.? ?The second reason is that I ran all my cables and wires through the firewall underneath that bow and I would have liked a little more space.? As it was it was pretty tight to get everything through there and have it fire protected with some steel sleeves and flexible fire sleeves.? ?I would probably go 2 inches.? It would have been easy to do as there was plenty of cowl material that I had to trim off anyway.
?
As to material I would go with 3/16 plexi.? ?I originally used 1/8 inch Lexan polycarbonate for the main windshield and the side windows.? I still have the 1/8 inch Lexan on the sides (doors and rear windows also) but I went to 3/16 plexi for the windshield.? ?Yes I think the 1/8 polycarbonate is stronger and more flexible but on my airplane it vibrated really bad due to the prop pulses.? ?If I put my finger on the windscreen during flight it would actually vibrate so hard it would hurt my finger and I think contributed a lot of noise also.? I first tried to put some supports in-between the window and the frame angles but finally decided to change it out with very good results.? It easily conforms to the slight curvature.? ?I simply pulled the old window out, laid it on the floor and marked the new piece including the holes.? Relatively easy.
?
I did; however, make a mistake that I would correct if I do it again.? I thought it would be nice to have a tinted windshield so went with a grey tint on the replacement window.? Works just fine during the day but at night it is like driving at night with your sunglasses on.? ?It is exaggerated by the fact that I have a relatively weak landing light.? I have landed at night and it works fine on large well lighted runways but on some of the narrow less well lit runways it is a little dicey.
Good Luck
Keith
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Also, cant the bow forward so that the bottom edge of the windshield can be cut square.? This makes fitting the windshield easier and simplifies the fairing at the bottom edge of the? windshield (no compound curves).
On Monday, January 20, 2025 at 04:16:43 PM CST, Keith Klos via groups.io <kloskeith@...> wrote:
Terry,
I raised the front windshield bow about 1 1/4 inches but would raise it higher if I were to do it again.? I say this for 2 reasons,? first as I look at other Tailwinds, their transition from cowl to windshield angle is less abrupt than mine and I think mine carries a speed penalty.? ?The second reason is that I ran all my cables and wires through the firewall underneath that bow and I would have liked a little more space.? As it was it was pretty tight to get everything through there and have it fire protected with some steel sleeves and flexible fire sleeves.? ?I would probably go 2 inches.? It would have been easy to do as there was plenty of cowl material that I had to trim off anyway.
?
As to material I would go with 3/16 plexi.? ?I originally used 1/8 inch Lexan polycarbonate for the main windshield and the side windows.? I still have the 1/8 inch Lexan on the sides (doors and rear windows also) but I went to 3/16 plexi for the windshield.? ?Yes I think the 1/8 polycarbonate is stronger and more flexible but on my airplane it vibrated really bad due to the prop pulses.? ?If I put my finger on the windscreen during flight it would actually vibrate so hard it would hurt my finger and I think contributed a lot of noise also.? I first tried to put some supports in-between the window and the frame angles but finally decided to change it out with very good results.? It easily conforms to the slight curvature.? ?I simply pulled the old window out, laid it on the floor and marked the new piece including the holes.? Relatively easy.
?
I did; however, make a mistake that I would correct if I do it again.? I thought it would be nice to have a tinted windshield so went with a grey tint on the replacement window.? Works just fine during the day but at night it is like driving at night with your sunglasses on.? ?It is exaggerated by the fact that I have a relatively weak landing light.? I have landed at night and it works fine on large well lighted runways but on some of the narrow less well lit runways it is a little dicey.
Good Luck
Keith
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Kevin Southwick
Joe Norris
Keith Klos
Mike S
Greg Blake