Re: Yes... ANOTHER new guy just bought a Cougar/Tailwind hybrid, Bill in Los Angeles
Thanks for the reply Greg,
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HOW exactly did you rebuild the cougar wing with the long tips? Are they bolted-on steel tube weldments, or are they wood mini-wings that are structurally spliced/scarfed in?
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Does anybody know what the design speeds are for the stock Cougar? Stall, Maneuvering, Rough Air, Redline??? If the spar spacing is indeed different, how does this affect the load carrying capabilities compared to a W8 Tailwind? Do Cougars have a lower speed range or lower G limits?
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Again, I have no intention whatsoever to 'push' or otherwise take the Cougar structure to its limits; I didn't build it, I don't know what the level of craftsmanship was by the builder, and I haven't been inside the wings. But I do fly in the desert, and we do get some hard edged chop around here even when flying a 172 at 110 mph..... so an airplane going 140-160 is going to get knocked around more by virtue of speed alone.
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Any and all knowledge about adding the tips on a Cougar is very much appreciated.
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Re: Yes... ANOTHER new guy just bought a Cougar/Tailwind hybrid, Bill in Los Angeles
I rebuilt wings similar to your situation! Reading wittman articles, talking to everyone on here, the consensus about flat bottom wing tailwind/cougars and triangular w10 wing tips, is the flat bottom wings seen beneficial improvement on lower stall and lower touchdown speeds, how much I'm not sure. Im building them currently on mine,? so more worth than none.. Now cougar wings are flat but the spar spacing is greater than tailwind, making the wing less than desirable for adding flaps and 24 ft wings, but if you rebuild to your plane and keep the overall wingspan to 23 ft or less, the cougar wing also shows improvement w wing tips. Your also looking at cable actuated alierons if a true cougar while tailwind is push pull, but no observed data that iv found saying this is less than stellar regarding flutter, unless you plan on having a super fast cougar. FYI, those original w8 and cougars were designed w c85 in mind while offering fast cruise, plans stating 170ish knot cruise, but u must keep it light. Guys add on or correct me. I learned from you all by the way. Best luck, there's a group of cougar flyers still on here or highbrid cougar-winds, they are all great sources for real data as I'm just wrapping my 4 year build up still.?
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Yes... ANOTHER new guy just bought a Cougar/Tailwind hybrid, Bill in Los Angeles
Greetings from Whiteman Airport KWHP in scenic Pacoima, CA :) I've just made arrangements to go get a Cougar / Tailwind hybrid in Las Vegas within a couple of weeks. A couple of guys in the Las Vegas area built two Nesmith Cougars. One tri-gear and one tailwheel. The tailwheel airplane was originally built by someone named Frank, and he called it "Frankenstein". I have done as much reading on this group and others as I could about the Cougar and Tailwind differences - thanks to the experienced people on this forum for those previous comments.
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Here is what I know about my new purchase from the Craigslist photos and third-hand comments:
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It has the "flat bottom" airfoil and the Nesmith / W8 square wingtips
It has the Piper style jackscrew pitch trim system, not a trim tab
It has a Wittman engine mount with the proper Tailwind landing gear, not the questionable Nesmith gear
It had a C-85 Continental, which had been removed
It had only flown about 10-12 hours, and the people who flew it thought it was a little "too hot" for them
Someone put vortex generators on the wings, presumably to slow it down on landing
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What I would like to ask on this forum is whether anyone has useful information about adding the triangular/trapezoid W10 style tips onto an existing short (Cougar/W8 style) wing. I saw one comment that the original triangular tips were bolted on steel tube tips and fabric covered, and only the later "real" W10's were wood. I have also seen one or two references to Cougars built or upgraded with the triangular tips added. I would be grateful to hear from anyone with knowledge of this upgrade, and whether it helps a flat-bottom wing as much as it helps a round-bottom wing.
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My reasoning for all of this is that the long wings are shown to cost little or no speed on the top end, but allow better and safer performance at the low speed end. That's a good bargain for me. I know full well that no flat bottomed Cougar is going to keep up with Jim Rust or any of the Clement airplanes in the speed department :)
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Another question I have for those with more knowledge is - Is there anything about the Cougar structure that would prevent me from using the same engines you can put on a Tailwind? I know a lot of 'proper' 10's are flying with O-320 Lycomings, but I have rarely heard of a W8 or Cougar using one. Is there a reason for this?
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Thanks in advance for helping me get 'calibrated' and up to speed with this as fast as possible!
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Re: Mike Busch AOPA Pilot article: Security Violation
My airport had a tornado go through in 2018.? They put up a new fence.? Just behind my hangar the bottom of the new chainlink fencing is at least a foot off of the ground so convenient to get under.? Airlake airport is completely unfenced. A terrorist will merely fly into Santa Maria next time and then they will be legally on the other side of the fence.? If you fly in you will not be able to leave the airport.? If you can¡¯t tailgate in then you can¡¯t tailgate out.?
A typical government fubar situation.?
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Mike Busch AOPA Pilot article: Security Violation
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2025/april/pilot/savvy-maintenance-security-violation
--
Bob Wray
N115WT
KABI
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Uff da. Requiescat in pace.
I was watching a clip of Alex Honnold (a well known climber) talking about free climbers (no ropes). He mentioned that they rarely die doing high risk stuff. It is usually more routine stuff that gets them.?
Last Holland clip I saw, I wondered what habits someone must practice to live as long as he did doing what he was doing.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2025, 14:23 Tailwind14855 via <Tailwind14855= [email protected]> wrote: Rob crashed fatally at Langley AFB following a cross country from Nashville. No details on what happened. Rob was a long time Oshkosh performer and the most accomplished pilot in the history of competition aerobatics. 13 time US National Aerobatics Champion. Reports state "on landing" and alternatively "on approach". Rob was scheduled for the weekend airshow at Langley. Age 50. 15,000 hours.
The only thing more dangerous than airshows i air racing.
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Rob crashed fatally at Langley AFB following a cross country from Nashville. No details on what happened. Rob was a long time Oshkosh performer and the most accomplished pilot in the history of competition aerobatics. 13 time US National Aerobatics Champion. Reports state "on landing" and alternatively "on approach". Rob was scheduled for the weekend airshow at Langley. Age 50. 15,000 hours.
The only thing more dangerous than airshows i air racing.
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Joe Norris,
While a possibly unpopular opinion, I think the ease of entry/exit that you cited in your message may be a big contributor to the potential success of the forthcoming Sonex Highwing, especially being strutless.?? I'm very curious for real world performance numbers and more feedback from larger framed individuals who have had a chance to try it on.? It's obviously?not a Tailwind, but I think it may very well satisfy a currently ignored market segment for those interested in an all metal, high wing, cross country machine that's not centered around the current STOL craze that every other manufacturer including Vans seems to be chasing... The only thing it might be missing is the option to mount a legacy engine, but I think we know the design philosophy behind that, and I'm very curious about the UL vs. one of the higher powered Rotax variants.??
I wouldn't expect you to remember, but I met you in person during my Waiex transition training in August 2015, while that program was still in place, and thoroughly enjoyed that experience.? I've since sold the Waiex which went to Thailand and I ended up parting ways with my W10, a decision I regularly question...
-Jeff Hebron, currently just a (cheap) Luscombe guy kicking around SC
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 10:56?AM Joe Norris via <joepilot13= [email protected]> wrote: I have a bunch of time in RV variants, and I can attest to the fact that they are fine airplanes.? BUT, i wouldn¡¯t swap my Tailwind for any of them.? One of the main reasons, which may surprise you, is ease of entry and exit. As we age, it becomes more and more difficult to climb out of a cockpit/canopy style airplane. Lifting one¡¯s self out of those bucket seats can be a chore, especially after a long flight.? With the Tailwind, you just step out. BOOM!? No hassle at all.
Another thing for me is the high-wing configuration of the Tailwind. I much prefer high wing over low wing, so that is another point in the Tailwind¡¯s favor in my book.
My particular Tailwind also appeals to me because it is powered by a Continental C-90.? My Super Cub is powered by a C-90 and my entire ¡°support system¡± is built around the C-90, so getting any airplane with a Lycoming engine would be like starting over from scratch for me.? I am gladly giving a some MPH in favor of fleet serviceability.
I find the general handling in the air to be quite similar between the RV and the Tailwind, and I prefer the manual flaps of the Tailwind over the RV¡¯s electric flaps, so yet another nod to the Tailwind.
Add to all this the history of the Tailwind, especially being based right here at Wittman Field, and the Tailwind is the sure winner for me.
Joe? Jim,
That is great.? ?Sounds like the builder did a really good job with baffling/cooling set up. Yes the RVs are nice airplanes and handle very nice.? I am always amazed had how slow they fly and also how fast they fly.? I wonder what his empty weight is???
?
My "Epic Adventure" friend flies his RV4 which is a very nice one BUT it seems that my Tailwind attracts way more ramp attention that his RV4 :)? ? In my book "any airplane is great".? ?
Keith
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Hi Jeff,
I am pretty sure I will have the privilege of helping out with the flight testing of the Sonex High Wing, so I will be able to report first hand on flying qualities and performance numbers of the prototype.? I have already ¡°tried it on¡± and I am confident that it will fit a wide range of body sizes. ?
When I worked for Sonex (2013-2016) we were already discussing the high wing design, and several versions were on the table.? The final product doesn¡¯t exactly match any of the early concepts, but it incorporates a lot of the ideas we discussed.? I think with the 3300 Jabiru, the UL engine, or a 912 Rotax, the performance will be fine.? I am anxious to find out!!
Joe
On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 3:59?PM Jeff Hebron via <jnhebron77= [email protected]> wrote: Joe Norris,
While a possibly unpopular opinion, I think the ease of entry/exit that you cited in your message may be a big contributor to the potential success of the forthcoming Sonex Highwing, especially being strutless.?? I'm very curious for real world performance numbers and more feedback from larger framed individuals who have had a chance to try it on.? It's obviously?not a Tailwind, but I think it may very well satisfy a currently ignored market segment for those interested in an all metal, high wing, cross country machine that's not centered around the current STOL craze that every other manufacturer including Vans seems to be chasing... The only thing it might be missing is the option to mount a legacy engine, but I think we know the design philosophy behind that, and I'm very curious about the UL vs. one of the higher powered Rotax variants.??
I wouldn't expect you to remember, but I met you in person during my Waiex transition training in August 2015, while that program was still in place, and thoroughly enjoyed that experience.? I've since sold the Waiex which went to Thailand and I ended up parting ways with my W10, a decision I regularly question...
-Jeff Hebron, currently just a (cheap) Luscombe guy kicking around SC
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 10:56?AM Joe Norris via <joepilot13= [email protected]> wrote: I have a bunch of time in RV variants, and I can attest to the fact that they are fine airplanes.? BUT, i wouldn¡¯t swap my Tailwind for any of them.? One of the main reasons, which may surprise you, is ease of entry and exit. As we age, it becomes more and more difficult to climb out of a cockpit/canopy style airplane. Lifting one¡¯s self out of those bucket seats can be a chore, especially after a long flight.? With the Tailwind, you just step out. BOOM!? No hassle at all.
Another thing for me is the high-wing configuration of the Tailwind. I much prefer high wing over low wing, so that is another point in the Tailwind¡¯s favor in my book.
My particular Tailwind also appeals to me because it is powered by a Continental C-90.? My Super Cub is powered by a C-90 and my entire ¡°support system¡± is built around the C-90, so getting any airplane with a Lycoming engine would be like starting over from scratch for me.? I am gladly giving a some MPH in favor of fleet serviceability.
I find the general handling in the air to be quite similar between the RV and the Tailwind, and I prefer the manual flaps of the Tailwind over the RV¡¯s electric flaps, so yet another nod to the Tailwind.
Add to all this the history of the Tailwind, especially being based right here at Wittman Field, and the Tailwind is the sure winner for me.
Joe? Jim,
That is great.? ?Sounds like the builder did a really good job with baffling/cooling set up. Yes the RVs are nice airplanes and handle very nice.? I am always amazed had how slow they fly and also how fast they fly.? I wonder what his empty weight is???
?
My "Epic Adventure" friend flies his RV4 which is a very nice one BUT it seems that my Tailwind attracts way more ramp attention that his RV4 :)? ? In my book "any airplane is great".? ?
Keith
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Joe Norris,
While a possibly unpopular opinion, I think the ease of entry/exit that you cited in your message may be a big contributor to the potential success of the forthcoming Sonex Highwing, especially being strutless.?? I'm very curious for real world performance numbers and more feedback from larger framed individuals who have had a chance to try it on.? It's obviously?not a Tailwind, but I think it may very well satisfy a currently ignored market segment for those interested in an all metal, high wing, cross country machine that's not centered around the current STOL craze that every other manufacturer including Vans seems to be chasing... The only thing it might be missing is the option to mount a legacy engine, but I think we know the design philosophy behind that, and I'm very curious about the UL vs. one of the higher powered Rotax variants.??
I wouldn't expect you to remember, but I met you in person during my Waiex transition training in August 2015, while that program was still in place, and thoroughly enjoyed that experience.? I've since sold the Waiex which went to Thailand and I ended up parting ways with my W10, a decision I regularly question...
-Jeff Hebron, currently just a (cheap) Luscombe guy kicking around SC
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 10:56?AM Joe Norris via <joepilot13= [email protected]> wrote: I have a bunch of time in RV variants, and I can attest to the fact that they are fine airplanes.? BUT, i wouldn¡¯t swap my Tailwind for any of them.? One of the main reasons, which may surprise you, is ease of entry and exit. As we age, it becomes more and more difficult to climb out of a cockpit/canopy style airplane. Lifting one¡¯s self out of those bucket seats can be a chore, especially after a long flight.? With the Tailwind, you just step out. BOOM!? No hassle at all.
Another thing for me is the high-wing configuration of the Tailwind. I much prefer high wing over low wing, so that is another point in the Tailwind¡¯s favor in my book.
My particular Tailwind also appeals to me because it is powered by a Continental C-90.? My Super Cub is powered by a C-90 and my entire ¡°support system¡± is built around the C-90, so getting any airplane with a Lycoming engine would be like starting over from scratch for me.? I am gladly giving a some MPH in favor of fleet serviceability.
I find the general handling in the air to be quite similar between the RV and the Tailwind, and I prefer the manual flaps of the Tailwind over the RV¡¯s electric flaps, so yet another nod to the Tailwind.
Add to all this the history of the Tailwind, especially being based right here at Wittman Field, and the Tailwind is the sure winner for me.
Joe? Jim,
That is great.? ?Sounds like the builder did a really good job with baffling/cooling set up. Yes the RVs are nice airplanes and handle very nice.? I am always amazed had how slow they fly and also how fast they fly.? I wonder what his empty weight is???
?
My "Epic Adventure" friend flies his RV4 which is a very nice one BUT it seems that my Tailwind attracts way more ramp attention that his RV4 :)? ? In my book "any airplane is great".? ?
Keith
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
We want books from both Jim Stanton and Red ---
On Wednesday, April 23rd, 2025 at 11:24 AM, red via groups.io <redswing@...> wrote:
I hope so, Jim Cunningham? Red ? ? I wonder if there is going to be a Jim Stanton memoir?? ? On Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 7:19?AM Bradley List via <bradleylist=[email protected]> wrote: A book is exactly what I was hoping for, so that I may list references. The library at the school must simply not have found it when I inquired. If I can, I will order a copy for The Jerry Falwell Library so that other aviation students can find it. Considering Wittman spanned the ENTIRE era of aviation, it would be nice if they had this resource. Thanks again. Brad List On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 08:11:16 PM EDT, Tailwind14855 via <tailwind14855=[email protected]> wrote: Search "Steve Wittman" and you will find a lot of info. For the early history "Steve Wittman Legendary Uncle' is a two part article with a lot of history. Perry Anderson was Steve's partner in their first airplane. They were mostly self taught in that airplane and? Steve soloed himself and then Perry soloed. Perry married Steve's sister and the article is written by Perry's grandson. That first airplane was a Standard J1. A couple of days after his solo Steve flew his sister, his first passenger. A few days later he was carrying passengers for hire. That was in 1924 and in 1926 Steve flew in his first air race at Milwaukee in that airplane. After a few years in the Fond du Lac area Steve took over as Airport Manager at Oshkosh in 1931. He talked about the early days of sleeping in the hangar and allowing himself a dollar a day for food.? At Oshkosh he built his first successful airplane in 3 1/2 months. The Chief Oshkosh became one of the most successful racers in its class. After problems at Cleveland, a few weeks later Steve won several races at Schnectady NY. The Chief was flown all over the country, no brakes, a tailskid, a chart and compass. The compass likely did not work.? The Chief had three different engines and four different sets of wings. The final wings were only 13' span. In that configuration it had a top speed around 255 m/h.? In 1947 the Chief fuselage with a new set of wings was modified to "Goodyear Racer" specifications. With Bill Brennand s pilot the airplane, now named Buster, won at Cleveland,, at Miami early in 1948 and again at Cleveland in 1949. By Clevel;and 1948 Steve had completed a similar racer that he named Bonzo. He placed at Cleveland and then won three times at the Continental Races at Miami and later Cleveland. . In 1954 Buster became the first homebuilt airplane displayed at Air and Space.? After many years of Goodyear/Formula one racing Bonzo was modified for cross country racing on a course starting at Fond du Lac. After several years of cross country racing, Steve had a spinner fail and the spinner badly damaged the wood prop. The airplane was damaged in the off airport landing. After several years of storage Forrest Lovley rebuilt the airplane for Steve. It is now in the EAA Museum, hanging up in formation with its namesake, the 1934 Big Bonzo Hardly Ableson powered by Harley Davidson engine. did not fly? Big Bonzo-unlimited class racer Tailwind #3 tri gear, 0 320 with Hartzell C/S prop V Witt-VW class racer similar to Little Bonzo Tailwind #4 with Olds V8 engine O&O Oshkosh to Ocala nonstop, 1120 statute miles In 1924 there were no aviation regulations. When the regulations first arrived around 1927 Steve was issued a pilot certificate probably a Commercial
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
I hope so, Jim Cunningham? Red ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of DjD via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2025 5:30 AM
To: [email protected] Notification <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TailwindForum] Books Containing Steve Wittman? I wonder if there is going to be a Jim Stanton memoir?? ? On Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 7:19?AM Bradley List via <bradleylist=[email protected]> wrote: A book is exactly what I was hoping for, so that I may list references. The library at the school must simply not have found it when I inquired. If I can, I will order a copy for The Jerry Falwell Library so that other aviation students can find it. Considering Wittman spanned the ENTIRE era of aviation, it would be nice if they had this resource. Thanks again. Brad List On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 08:11:16 PM EDT, Tailwind14855 via <tailwind14855=[email protected]> wrote: Search "Steve Wittman" and you will find a lot of info. For the early history "Steve Wittman Legendary Uncle' is a two part article with a lot of history. Perry Anderson was Steve's partner in their first airplane. They were mostly self taught in that airplane and? Steve soloed himself and then Perry soloed. Perry married Steve's sister and the article is written by Perry's grandson. That first airplane was a Standard J1. A couple of days after his solo Steve flew his sister, his first passenger. A few days later he was carrying passengers for hire. That was in 1924 and in 1926 Steve flew in his first air race at Milwaukee in that airplane. After a few years in the Fond du Lac area Steve took over as Airport Manager at Oshkosh in 1931. He talked about the early days of sleeping in the hangar and allowing himself a dollar a day for food.? At Oshkosh he built his first successful airplane in 3 1/2 months. The Chief Oshkosh became one of the most successful racers in its class. After problems at Cleveland, a few weeks later Steve won several races at Schnectady NY. The Chief was flown all over the country, no brakes, a tailskid, a chart and compass. The compass likely did not work.? The Chief had three different engines and four different sets of wings. The final wings were only 13' span. In that configuration it had a top speed around 255 m/h.? In 1947 the Chief fuselage with a new set of wings was modified to "Goodyear Racer" specifications. With Bill Brennand s pilot the airplane, now named Buster, won at Cleveland,, at Miami early in 1948 and again at Cleveland in 1949. By Clevel;and 1948 Steve had completed a similar racer that he named Bonzo. He placed at Cleveland and then won three times at the Continental Races at Miami and later Cleveland. . In 1954 Buster became the first homebuilt airplane displayed at Air and Space.? After many years of Goodyear/Formula one racing Bonzo was modified for cross country racing on a course starting at Fond du Lac. After several years of cross country racing, Steve had a spinner fail and the spinner badly damaged the wood prop. The airplane was damaged in the off airport landing. After several years of storage Forrest Lovley rebuilt the airplane for Steve. It is now in the EAA Museum, hanging up in formation with its namesake, the 1934 Big Bonzo Hardly Ableson powered by Harley Davidson engine. did not fly? Big Bonzo-unlimited class racer Tailwind #3 tri gear, 0 320 with Hartzell C/S prop V Witt-VW class racer similar to Little Bonzo Tailwind #4 with Olds V8 engine O&O Oshkosh to Ocala nonstop, 1120 statute miles In 1924 there were no aviation regulations. When the regulations first arrived around 1927 Steve was issued a pilot certificate probably a Commercial
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
I wonder if there is going to be a Jim Stanton memoir??
Sent from my Pixel 5a
On Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 7:19?AM Bradley List via <bradleylist= [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Jim S, A book is exactly what I was hoping for, so that I may list references. The library at the school must simply not have found it when I inquired. If I can, I will order a copy for The Jerry Falwell Library so that other aviation students can find it. Considering Wittman spanned the ENTIRE era of aviation, it would be nice if they had this resource. Thanks again. Brad List
On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 08:11:16 PM EDT, Tailwind14855 via <tailwind14855= [email protected]> wrote:
Search "Steve Wittman" and you will find a lot of info. For the early history "Steve Wittman Legendary Uncle' is a two part article with a lot of history. Perry Anderson was Steve's partner in their first airplane. They were mostly self taught in that airplane and? Steve soloed himself and then Perry soloed. Perry married Steve's sister and the article is written by Perry's grandson. That first airplane was a Standard J1. A couple of days after his solo Steve flew his sister, his first passenger. A few days later he was carrying passengers for hire. That was in 1924 and in 1926 Steve flew in his first air race at Milwaukee in that airplane. After a few years in the Fond du Lac area Steve took over as Airport Manager at Oshkosh in 1931. He talked about the early days of sleeping in the hangar and allowing himself a dollar a day for food.? At Oshkosh he built his first successful airplane in 3 1/2 months. The Chief Oshkosh became one of the most successful racers in its class. After problems at Cleveland, a few weeks later Steve won several races at Schnectady NY. The Chief was flown all over the country, no brakes, a tailskid, a chart and compass. The compass likely did not work.? The Chief had three different engines and four different sets of wings. The final wings were only 13' span. In that configuration it had a top speed around 255 m/h.?
In 1947 the Chief fuselage with a new set of wings was modified to "Goodyear Racer" specifications. With Bill Brennand s pilot the airplane, now named Buster, won at Cleveland,, at Miami early in 1948 and again at Cleveland in 1949. By Clevel;and 1948 Steve had completed a similar racer that he named Bonzo. He placed at Cleveland and then won three times at the Continental Races at Miami and later Cleveland. .
In 1954 Buster became the first homebuilt airplane displayed at Air and Space.?
After many years of Goodyear/Formula one racing Bonzo was modified for cross country racing on a course starting at Fond du Lac. After several years of cross country racing, Steve had a spinner fail and the spinner badly damaged the wood prop. The airplane was damaged in the off airport landing. After several years of storage Forrest Lovley rebuilt the airplane for Steve. It is now in the EAA Museum, hanging up in formation with its namesake, the 1934 Big Bonzo
The Wittman Airplanes:
Hardly Ableson powered by Harley Davidson engine. did not fly?
Chief Oshkosh
Big Bonzo-unlimited class racer
Buttercup
Big X
Buster
Little Bonzo
Tailwind #1
Tailwind #2
Tailwind #3 tri gear, 0 320 with Hartzell C/S prop
V Witt-VW class racer similar to Little Bonzo
Tailwind #4 with Olds V8 engine
O&O Oshkosh to Ocala nonstop, 1120 statute miles
In 1924 there were no aviation regulations. When the regulations first arrived around 1927 Steve was issued a pilot certificate probably a Commercial
?
?
?
?
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
Thanks Jim S, A book is exactly what I was hoping for, so that I may list references. The library at the school must simply not have found it when I inquired. If I can, I will order a copy for The Jerry Falwell Library so that other aviation students can find it. Considering Wittman spanned the ENTIRE era of aviation, it would be nice if they had this resource. Thanks again. Brad List
On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 08:11:16 PM EDT, Tailwind14855 via groups.io <tailwind14855@...> wrote:
Search "Steve Wittman" and you will find a lot of info. For the early history "Steve Wittman Legendary Uncle' is a two part article with a lot of history. Perry Anderson was Steve's partner in their first airplane. They were mostly self taught in that airplane and? Steve soloed himself and then Perry soloed. Perry married Steve's sister and the article is written by Perry's grandson. That first airplane was a Standard J1. A couple of days after his solo Steve flew his sister, his first passenger. A few days later he was carrying passengers for hire. That was in 1924 and in 1926 Steve flew in his first air race at Milwaukee in that airplane. After a few years in the Fond du Lac area Steve took over as Airport Manager at Oshkosh in 1931. He talked about the early days of sleeping in the hangar and allowing himself a dollar a day for food.? At Oshkosh he built his first successful airplane in 3 1/2 months. The Chief Oshkosh became one of the most successful racers in its class. After problems at Cleveland, a few weeks later Steve won several races at Schnectady NY. The Chief was flown all over the country, no brakes, a tailskid, a chart and compass. The compass likely did not work.? The Chief had three different engines and four different sets of wings. The final wings were only 13' span. In that configuration it had a top speed around 255 m/h.?
In 1947 the Chief fuselage with a new set of wings was modified to "Goodyear Racer" specifications. With Bill Brennand s pilot the airplane, now named Buster, won at Cleveland,, at Miami early in 1948 and again at Cleveland in 1949. By Clevel;and 1948 Steve had completed a similar racer that he named Bonzo. He placed at Cleveland and then won three times at the Continental Races at Miami and later Cleveland. .
In 1954 Buster became the first homebuilt airplane displayed at Air and Space.?
After many years of Goodyear/Formula one racing Bonzo was modified for cross country racing on a course starting at Fond du Lac. After several years of cross country racing, Steve had a spinner fail and the spinner badly damaged the wood prop. The airplane was damaged in the off airport landing. After several years of storage Forrest Lovley rebuilt the airplane for Steve. It is now in the EAA Museum, hanging up in formation with its namesake, the 1934 Big Bonzo
The Wittman Airplanes:
Hardly Ableson powered by Harley Davidson engine. did not fly?
Chief Oshkosh
Big Bonzo-unlimited class racer
Buttercup
Big X
Buster
Little Bonzo
Tailwind #1
Tailwind #2
Tailwind #3 tri gear, 0 320 with Hartzell C/S prop
V Witt-VW class racer similar to Little Bonzo
Tailwind #4 with Olds V8 engine
O&O Oshkosh to Ocala nonstop, 1120 statute miles
In 1924 there were no aviation regulations. When the regulations first arrived around 1927 Steve was issued a pilot certificate probably a Commercial
?
?
?
?
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As for your tire pressure comment, it reminds me of the story told by Hunter Thompson in his book Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas where he was driving through Death Valley in his boat Cadillac and stopped for gas. The attendant asked him if he wanted the tire pressure checked and Thompson ¡°yes please and they take 100 psi¡±.? The attendant was incredulous. ?¡°But they take 32 normally sir.¡± ? Thompson replied ¡°Ah yes but these are special experimental tires¡±.? He said once he hit the road at one hundred miles per hour the handling was awful but you could feel every pebble on the road. ?
From a long time (see my sig) RV owner, the C/S prop allowing full power in acceleration and climb obviously helps, but I'll bet it was at least 74" diameter, too. Many of the F/P prop makers sell 68" props for RVs (and likely Tailwinds). That extra 6" of diameter makes a really big difference in acceleration, even with a F/P prop. I've played with various diameter F/P on my RVs I've owned over the years, and the most impressive was a Warnke 72" diameter on a 160 HP RV4. Great takeoff performance, and 170 kt (not mph) cruise.
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On tire pressure, if the guys at Van's are recommending 25 psi, they're doing it to hide the shimmy issue. I've always run 50+ in mine; if I forget to air them up and they get down to 30 psi or so the plane feels like a '68 Pontiac station wagon on the ground; I hate it.
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As for your tire pressure comment, it reminds me of the story told by Hunter Thompson in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas where he was driving through Death Valley in his boat Cadillac and stopped for gas. The attendant asked him if he wanted the tire pressure checked and Thompson ¡°yes please and they take 100 psi¡±.? The attendant was incredulous. ?¡°But they take 32 normally sir.¡± ? Thompson replied ¡°Ah yes but these are special experimental tires¡±.? He said once he hit the road at one hundred miles per hour the handling was awful but you could feel every pebble on the road. ?
From a long time (see my sig) RV owner, the C/S prop allowing full power in acceleration and climb obviously helps, but I'll bet it was at least 74" diameter, too. Many of the F/P prop makers sell 68" props for RVs (and likely Tailwinds). That extra 6" of diameter makes a really big difference in acceleration, even with a F/P prop. I've played with various diameter F/P on my RVs I've owned over the years, and the most impressive was a Warnke 72" diameter on a 160 HP RV4. Great takeoff performance, and 170 kt (not mph) cruise.
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On tire pressure, if the guys at Van's are recommending 25 psi, they're doing it to hide the shimmy issue. I've always run 50+ in mine; if I forget to air them up and they get down to 30 psi or so the plane feels like a '68 Pontiac station wagon on the ground; I hate it.
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Forward speed of the airplane through the air plays a big part in the calculation. So I hope that website takes that into consideration.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025 at 10:41?PM Joe Norris via <joepilot13= [email protected]> wrote: This is why ¡°seaplane¡± props are always big diameter.? Gives you more acceleration ¡°out of the hole¡± (as the drag racers like to say). Might hurt the top end a little bit, but sure does pull on the low end.
The only thing you want to avoid is the tip speed breaking the speed of sound. ?(And of course you have to consider ground clearance.) ?Pponk Aviation has a prop tip speed calculator on their website.? Go to Pponk.com, click the ¡°props¡± tab, then click the ¡°tip speed calculator" tab.? You can play with various diameters and engine RPM settings to see what might work for ya.
Joe From a long time (see my sig) RV owner, the C/S prop allowing full power in acceleration and climb obviously helps, but I'll bet it was at least 74" diameter, too. Many of the F/P prop makers sell 68" props for RVs (and likely Tailwinds). That extra 6" of diameter makes a really big difference in acceleration, even with a F/P prop. I've played with various diameter F/P on my RVs I've owned over the years, and the most impressive was a Warnke 72" diameter on a 160 HP RV4. Great takeoff performance, and 170 kt (not mph) cruise.
?
On tire pressure, if the guys at Van's are recommending 25 psi, they're doing it to hide the shimmy issue. I've always run 50+ in mine; if I forget to air them up and they get down to 30 psi or so the plane feels like a '68 Pontiac station wagon on the ground; I hate it.
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Agreed. But at Lyc rpms and up to the 180 kt neighborhood, there doesn't seem to be any top end penalty even at 74"; that's what Van is selling in Hartzells. My old (purchased) RV4 met Van's numbers on both ends of the spectrum, which doesn't seem to happen with a lot of builds. Been a while since I tried to run the numbers, but IIRC the math says it's ok, as well.
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
Search "Steve Wittman" and you will find a lot of info. For the early history "Steve Wittman Legendary Uncle' is a two part article with a lot of history. Perry Anderson was Steve's partner in their first airplane. They were mostly self taught in that airplane and? Steve soloed himself and then Perry soloed. Perry married Steve's sister and the article is written by Perry's grandson. That first airplane was a Standard J1. A couple of days after his solo Steve flew his sister, his first passenger. A few days later he was carrying passengers for hire. That was in 1924 and in 1926 Steve flew in his first air race at Milwaukee in that airplane. After a few years in the Fond du Lac area Steve took over as Airport Manager at Oshkosh in 1931. He talked about the early days of sleeping in the hangar and allowing himself a dollar a day for food.? At Oshkosh he built his first successful airplane in 3 1/2 months. The Chief Oshkosh became one of the most successful racers in its class. After problems at Cleveland, a few weeks later Steve won several races at Schnectady NY. The Chief was flown all over the country, no brakes, a tailskid, a chart and compass. The compass likely did not work.? The Chief had three different engines and four different sets of wings. The final wings were only 13' span. In that configuration it had a top speed around 255 m/h.?
In 1947 the Chief fuselage with a new set of wings was modified to "Goodyear Racer" specifications. With Bill Brennand s pilot the airplane, now named Buster, won at Cleveland,, at Miami early in 1948 and again at Cleveland in 1949. By Clevel;and 1948 Steve had completed a similar racer that he named Bonzo. He placed at Cleveland and then won three times at the Continental Races at Miami and later Cleveland. .
In 1954 Buster became the first homebuilt airplane displayed at Air and Space.?
After many years of Goodyear/Formula one racing Bonzo was modified for cross country racing on a course starting at Fond du Lac. After several years of cross country racing, Steve had a spinner fail and the spinner badly damaged the wood prop. The airplane was damaged in the off airport landing. After several years of storage Forrest Lovley rebuilt the airplane for Steve. It is now in the EAA Museum, hanging up in formation with its namesake, the 1934 Big Bonzo
The Wittman Airplanes:
Hardly Ableson powered by Harley Davidson engine. did not fly?
Chief Oshkosh
Big Bonzo-unlimited class racer
Buttercup
Big X
Buster
Little Bonzo
Tailwind #1
Tailwind #2
Tailwind #3 tri gear, 0 320 with Hartzell C/S prop
V Witt-VW class racer similar to Little Bonzo
Tailwind #4 with Olds V8 engine
O&O Oshkosh to Ocala nonstop, 1120 statute miles
In 1924 there were no aviation regulations. When the regulations first arrived around 1927 Steve was issued a pilot certificate probably a Commercial
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Re: Books Containing Steve Wittman
You might contact William Wynne at fly corvair he knew Wittman family well I believe
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025, 14:50 Michael Richardson via <iwillfly4food= [email protected]> wrote: I have a really cozy hangar for your Tailwind here at M21, Jim.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2025, 4:45?PM Tailwind14855 via <Tailwind14855= [email protected]> wrote: I recommend the Sport Aviation article by Jim Cunningham? and the EAA video on Steves life. I am losing my hangar May 15 and most of my stuff is packed away so I can't offer any help. There is a lot of information available on Steve. Much of it concentrates on one airplane or two in the case of the midget racers. If you are willing to search for it there is more information available on Steve than any other air race pilot. many articles in Sport Aviation. If you are an EAA member all the back issues are available via the EAA website.?
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Cat-Wind
Greg Blake
Bob Wray
Joe Norris