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Farymann a30 shaft coupling
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Hi,
I'm looking for a shaft coupling for a farymann a30. It's a rubber component about 3 inches long that connects between the transmission and prop shaft. The Farymann was a common engine on the T27-2
I'm running into a lot of dead ends and coming here in case someone has repowered and has one laying around, or perhaps has solved this issue themselves.
Lee,
#663 S/V Dawn
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Do you have a picture? I have some parts laying around.?
On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 13:14, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote: Hi,
I'm looking for a shaft coupling for a farymann a30. It's a rubber component about 3 inches long that connects between the transmission and prop shaft. The Farymann was a common engine on the T27-2
I'm running into a lot of dead ends and coming here in case someone has repowered and has one laying around, or perhaps has solved this issue themselves.
Lee,
#663 S/V Dawn
|
Hi Lee;
Can you get the specific dimensions of the coupling you are trying to replace.? Then try either? Grainger: | |
or McMasterCarr
Glenn
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Show quoted text
On Jul 10, 2023, at 4:14 PM, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
Hi,
I'm looking for a shaft coupling for a farymann a30. It's a rubber component about 3 inches long that connects between the transmission and prop shaft. The Farymann was a common engine on the T27-2
I'm running into a lot of dead ends and coming here in case someone has repowered and has one laying around, or perhaps has solved this issue themselves.
Lee,
#663 S/V Dawn
Pictures attached. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative off the shelf solutions. I've spoken to Farymann North America, Beta Marine, PYI inc, and others. The bolt pattern and pilot are simply nonstandard. I'm beginning to wonder about through bolting the whole piece to get me home, but worried about how it might hold up with the vibration of the single cylinder. The design of the coupling is supposed to account for this. Lee
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Could you make something like this work?
Caleb #328
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 06:13:31 PM EDT, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
Pictures attached. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative off the shelf solutions. I've spoken to Farymann North America, Beta Marine, PYI inc, and others. The bolt pattern and pilot are simply nonstandard. I'm beginning to wonder about through bolting the whole piece to get me home, but worried about how it might hold up with the vibration of the single cylinder. The design of the coupling is supposed to account for this.
Lee
|
I was hoping to, but have been unable to find a product with a close enough fit to the existing flanges.
The existing surface is 4 in diameter, with a ~2 and 7/8 in bolt pattern, and 1.75 in pilot. Unfortunately, all the professionals and suppliers I've talked to are flummoxed.
I might be able to change out the prop coupling and have a spacer machined to mate to the transmission, but it's certainly not a very quick solution and we're away from the home port...
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In the number of years I've been boating on mine and other peoples boats I have never seen a "drive saver" quite like that.? I have not spent a lot of time on boats with the Farymann A30 diesel, but you have found out that parts for it are non-existent to maybe not.? Some use CNC shops to make up small spec pieces like manifold inlets, or mixing elbows.? Not sure I'd want to see the bill for having a CNC shop make up a new version of that drive saver.??
How badly damaged is the original item?? Can you simply get new bolts and nuts and tighten the whole thing back up, very tightly?? Duct tape it together if the rubber part is falling apart, or consider replacing the rubber with a hunk of pine (softer wood).? Get creative and maybe get home?? If the vibrations of the A30 don't loosen your fillings or damage your "repair" you might get home.
One of the first things you might consider doing when you get home is to get one of those "standard" drive savers that I linked in a previous message.? Figure out what new shaft couplings you will need and get another shaft made.? While you are at it replace/inspect your stuffing box and cutlass bearing.? It will be good for another 10+ years, if you do.
How much farther do you need to travel?? Maybe try not to motor so much.? If you wait out some windless days then the wind is certain to come, at some point.? The T27 is a fine sailor after all.
Best of luck.
Caleb D #328
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 06:13:31 PM EDT, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
Pictures attached. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative off the shelf solutions. I've spoken to Farymann North America, Beta Marine, PYI inc, and others. The bolt pattern and pilot are simply nonstandard. I'm beginning to wonder about through bolting the whole piece to get me home, but worried about how it might hold up with the vibration of the single cylinder. The design of the coupling is supposed to account for this.
Lee
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Thanks Caleb, Obviously the solution to get us home is top of mind. Once there, a world of more permanent solutions are available to us (including repowering and electrification). We certainly don't mind sailing and are well practiced at sailing far more of our trips than motoring. That said, we're currently between drawbridges and along a restricted channel. I'm trying to identify a solution that gives us enough confidence that we won't become a navigational hazard on our way out of here to raise sails and cross the lake. Best, Lee
#663 Dawn
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I guess the one pictured is yours, and it broke? The rubber separated
from the metal? And nothing holds it together except the chemical
bond of the rubber?
Take the whole thing and your photos to a machine shop. Make sure
they know you're not looking for a quick repair but a re-engineered
part, with the associated time and money investment.
They might start with the two flanges you have and weld some prongs on
to them with the idea that you can stuff shock absorbent material
between them. Maybe some kind of double ball joint can be fitted down
the middle connecting the flanges to keep it from pulling apart in
reverse. I may have to make an xpaint drawing.
1. Flanges need to be generally parallel to each other
2. Need to be spaced a fixed distance and not pull apart
3. Needs to absorb as much vibration as possible otherwise
4. Do need space to access nuts to bolt through the flanges
Flange bolt patterns are often adapted. Currently available shaft
vibration dampeners could be welded on to your existing flanges tho as
you said they aren't going to absorb as much vibration as yours.
Caleb's could work for that, or something like
. Those seem to be available in large enough sizes for the
application. If the metals available aren't similar, the machine shop
can easily make a new flange modeled on your old ones. Stainless is
the best bet here so get something like
and have them add the right
flanges and maybe weld some stainless wire rope on the outside to hold
it from pulling apart. And that's about the design I was trying to
describe when I was talking about welding prongs on to your flanges so
that saves a bad xpaint drawing. Or show them that and bring in a
bunch of hard durometer rubber from McMaster and ask them to make
something very roughly like that starting with your existing flanges.
That says "each part sold separately" so you could just buy the
"Buna-N" "spiders" (rubber thingies) and hand that to a machinist or
welder to add to your flanges.
If you start with your existing flanges and modify them in to
something like that, then any welding shop should be able to do it.
You're not even looking for a machine shop. You may have to try a few
shops tho.
These shops aren't really used to being asked to work on boats so they
can be a bit shy, but it's the same damn thing as old tractors or oil
rigs, really. Talk it through with them.
I know that's a Plan B versus just finding a spare part (and maybe
someone will still pipe up with one) but always good to have a Plan B.
Ok did a really really bad xpaint after all. A hand drawing would be
better. Except for really stock things like metal bar or plate etc,
welding shops really want you to supply any other materials, which
might just be some of those "spiders" and some wire rope of the same
metal as the flanges, or stainless if you're having new ones made.
Good luck!
-scott
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Show quoted text
On 7/10/23, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote: I was hoping to, but have been unable to find a product with a close enough
fit to the existing flanges.
The existing surface is 4 in diameter, with a ~2 and 7/8 in bolt pattern,
and 1.75 in pilot. Unfortunately, all the professionals and suppliers I've
talked to are flummoxed.
I might be able to change out the prop coupling and have a spacer machined
to mate to the transmission, but it's certainly not a very quick solution
and we're away from the home port...
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Looking at some more of those, this has a hub design that looks like
it would resist pulling apart:
That's more shock absorbing than vibration dampening tho, and less flexi.
-scott
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Show quoted text
On 7/10/23, Scott Walters <scrottie@...> wrote: I guess the one pictured is yours, and it broke? The rubber separated
from the metal? And nothing holds it together except the chemical
bond of the rubber?
Take the whole thing and your photos to a machine shop. Make sure
they know you're not looking for a quick repair but a re-engineered
part, with the associated time and money investment.
They might start with the two flanges you have and weld some prongs on
to them with the idea that you can stuff shock absorbent material
between them. Maybe some kind of double ball joint can be fitted down
the middle connecting the flanges to keep it from pulling apart in
reverse. I may have to make an xpaint drawing.
1. Flanges need to be generally parallel to each other
2. Need to be spaced a fixed distance and not pull apart
3. Needs to absorb as much vibration as possible otherwise
4. Do need space to access nuts to bolt through the flanges
Flange bolt patterns are often adapted. Currently available shaft
vibration dampeners could be welded on to your existing flanges tho as
you said they aren't going to absorb as much vibration as yours.
Caleb's could work for that, or something like
. Those seem to be available in large enough sizes for the
application. If the metals available aren't similar, the machine shop
can easily make a new flange modeled on your old ones. Stainless is
the best bet here so get something like
and have them add the right
flanges and maybe weld some stainless wire rope on the outside to hold
it from pulling apart. And that's about the design I was trying to
describe when I was talking about welding prongs on to your flanges so
that saves a bad xpaint drawing. Or show them that and bring in a
bunch of hard durometer rubber from McMaster and ask them to make
something very roughly like that starting with your existing flanges.
That says "each part sold separately" so you could just buy the
"Buna-N" "spiders" (rubber thingies) and hand that to a machinist or
welder to add to your flanges.
If you start with your existing flanges and modify them in to
something like that, then any welding shop should be able to do it.
You're not even looking for a machine shop. You may have to try a few
shops tho.
These shops aren't really used to being asked to work on boats so they
can be a bit shy, but it's the same damn thing as old tractors or oil
rigs, really. Talk it through with them.
I know that's a Plan B versus just finding a spare part (and maybe
someone will still pipe up with one) but always good to have a Plan B.
Ok did a really really bad xpaint after all. A hand drawing would be
better. Except for really stock things like metal bar or plate etc,
welding shops really want you to supply any other materials, which
might just be some of those "spiders" and some wire rope of the same
metal as the flanges, or stainless if you're having new ones made.
Good luck!
-scott
On 7/10/23, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
I was hoping to, but have been unable to find a product with a close
enough
fit to the existing flanges.
The existing surface is 4 in diameter, with a ~2 and 7/8 in bolt pattern,
and 1.75 in pilot. Unfortunately, all the professionals and suppliers
I've
talked to are flummoxed.
I might be able to change out the prop coupling and have a spacer
machined
to mate to the transmission, but it's certainly not a very quick solution
and we're away from the home port...
|
We have some waters like that around here.? We have the East River, which is really not a river at all but a tidal inlet.? Then we have the Hudson River.? Both can have tidal currents that overwhelm a not so enthusiastic engine.? ?
From where I sit, I see that you two options:?
1) Bite the bullet and use your towing insurance to get out of the restricted channel (or get a tow all the way home).? I hope you do have towing insurance as without the insurance they can really gouge you, even for short distances.?
2) Fabricate some way to give your T27 some power.? That could be from an outboard mounted along stern or aft beam of your boat.? By outboard I mean either a strong battery powered motor or a small outboard motor (~ 5 HP, depending on what currents you might face).? I'd use some 2 x 4 or larger boards to make a temporary mount for the motor.? Lash the mount to the boat and then mount the motor (no screws through the hull needed).? Have some canvas or cloth available to use to protect the hull where the wooden mount mates with the hull.? Option #2 sounds like more fun but twice the work.
I am a lazy cuss so I'd probably go with option #1.
Good luck.
Caleb D
#328
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 07:24:04 PM EDT, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
Thanks Caleb, Obviously the solution to get us home is top of mind. Once there, a world of more permanent solutions are available to us (including repowering and electrification). We certainly don't mind sailing and are well practiced at sailing far more of our trips than motoring. That said, we're currently between drawbridges and along a restricted channel. I'm trying to identify a solution that gives us enough confidence that we won't become a navigational hazard on our way out of here to raise sails and cross the lake.
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While I don't think I would be bold enough to put bolts all the way through those?two steel flanges, I might just try a carefully crafted DIY get-around. I would try making a sandwich of several thicknesses of reinforced rubber (think tire sidewall material or some equivalent?from McMaster) then punch 4 holes (steel pipe with sharpened outer edge like a leather punch) in the two rubber?discs which fall adjacent?to the?flanges, and 8 holes per for the rest of the sandwich. 4 bolts would go through all but one layer and into one steel flange, then 4 more in the alternate holes from the second to last layer to the opposite flange. This would insulate the bolts from one?flange from the bolts from the other, yet substantially?connect the bolts through the middle layers of the tire sandwich. The bolts may want to be nutted to the flange with a nut on either side counter tightened against each other,?which would serve to keep them from wallowing out the holes. Really this is just a variation on conventional resilient?couplings, just modified to span the very large space between your two steel flanges. Perhaps some stock rubber couplers are available that are near your bolt pattern already, saving you a lot of work.
While I feel certain this will work, it is clearly a patch job, and you must judge for yourself if it is a good one or one to be avoided. Hope you find a satisfactory solution and get home safely.
Alan (Alas, my T27 has recently gone.)
On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 7:24?PM lm53187 < muellerl@...> wrote: Thanks Caleb,
Obviously the solution to get us home is top of mind. Once there, a world of more permanent solutions are available to us (including repowering and electrification).
We certainly don't mind sailing and are well practiced at sailing far more of our trips than motoring. That said, we're currently between drawbridges and along a restricted channel. I'm trying to identify a solution that gives us enough confidence that we won't become a navigational hazard on our way out of here to raise sails and cross the lake.
Best,
Lee
#663 Dawn
|
I just wanted to say how appreciative I am of this community and different ideas. I do already have one machinist friend thinking of solutions. Your ideas may continue to help prime the pump.
Let's see where it leads.
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I'm certainly curious what other ideas the hive mind conjures. Tomorrow, I'm hoping to talk to a couple local machine shops.
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I'm not sure that this applies to your situation as most restricted channels require you have some mechanical assistance to move.? There is the idea of a "sweep oar".? A regular, or oversized oar blade attached to a long shaft which is lashed to the stern rail (or some point aft).? The oar only needs to go back and forth across the stern to generate forward propulsion.? In an emergency, this could be useful.
Another option (if caviar is on your menu) is to buy a "tender" with a small outboard and hip tow the T 27 yourself.??
This is a good group of folks.? Only one other forum has been of more use to me than this one:? The Moyer Marine forum.? My T27 had the Atomic 3 or 4 in it.? The folks on that forum were real motorheads who knew diesel and gasoline engines.? Impressive folks.
Best, Caleb D #328
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 08:39:46 PM EDT, lm53187 <muellerl@...> wrote:
I'm certainly curious what other ideas the hive mind conjures. Tomorrow, I'm hoping to talk to a couple local machine shops.
|
Alan, I could totally see someone by the dock with a circular saw
cutting donuts out of old tire, and I think you're right that that
would be a fantastic temporary fix, putting bolts through one flange
and a bunch of layers of tire rubber. With some big washers in there,
I don't think that's any worse than the original design.
Mentioned that before but I've been dabbling with a 52" long-shaft
Minnkota 12 volt 55 pound thrust trolling motor. There's world of
difference between calm and bucking waves and current. I was once in
a situation where the 12hp diesel (which could use some shaft
vibration dampening) couldn't push the boat through a tack.
Really want to learn the sculling oar but from what I've seen, that
looks like it would weigh in closer to the Minnkota than the Kubota,
which is to say that you aren't going to battle adverse conditions
with it. There's a lot to be said for picking favorable tides and
winds tho. The 12volt 55 pound thrust model has me toying with the
idea of their 36 volt 112 pound thrust model. But an inboard electric
is also on the wishlist.
Anyway,
might just have enough umph to navigate drawbridges and narrow
channels if you time it right. I'm led to believe that the
approximate HP conversion there is about 1.3hp. Or even the 24 volt
model, clocking in at right around 1hp. Extra long shaft models are
vastly cheaper (and less powerful) than gas outboards.
I've done some dinghy sailing on the Hudson up near Albany.
And yeah, I love to see the brainstorming too. Every idea gets filed
away and quite often get used eventually.
-scott
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On 7/10/23, Caleb Davison via groups.io <calebjess@...> wrote: I'm not sure that this applies to your situation as most restricted
channels require you have some mechanical assistance to move. There is the
idea of a "sweep oar". A regular, or oversized oar blade attached to a long
shaft which is lashed to the stern rail (or some point aft). The oar only
needs to go back and forth across the stern to generate forward propulsion.
In an emergency, this could be useful.
Another option (if caviar is on your menu) is to buy a "tender" with a small
outboard and hip tow the T 27 yourself.
This is a good group of folks. Only one other forum has been of more use to
me than this one: The Moyer Marine forum. My T27 had the Atomic 3 or 4 in
it. The folks on that forum were real motorheads who knew diesel and
gasoline engines. Impressive folks.
Best,Caleb D#328
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 08:39:46 PM EDT, lm53187
<muellerl@...> wrote:
I'm certainly curious what other ideas the hive mind conjures. Tomorrow,
I'm hoping to talk to a couple local machine shops.
|
Lee,
I had the same problem with the coupler after running over a crab pot with our? T27. I was able to epoxy it back together. The piece was originally bonded together. Since mine was a clean break, like yours appears to be, I just bonded mine back together this spring. It has been fine ever since. I'd be weary about bolting it through as the Farymanns move around a fair bit.
I found a company in Germany that remanufactures the couplers. I'll see if I can dig up the info.
Also if you need Farymann parts in general try this place:
Machinefabriek Rotterdam BV
Ophemertstraat 43 - Hal 2
3089 JD Rotterdam
Havennummer 2510
They have been responsive. Unfortunately,? I haven't been able to locate a decent parts supplier in the US.
P.S. I follow S/V Dawn on Instagram. You guys have made yourselves a beautiful boat!
Sincerely,
Brian and Ewa? S/V Serenity T27-2 Galesville, MD
Pictures attached.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative off the shelf solutions. I've spoken to Farymann North America, Beta Marine, PYI inc, and others. The bolt pattern and pilot are simply nonstandard.
I'm beginning to wonder about through bolting the whole piece to get me home, but worried about how it might hold up with the vibration of the single cylinder. The design of the coupling is supposed to account for this.
Lee
|
Nice job scott elaborating on some of the field engineered options? Glenn q
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On Jul 10, 2023, at 11:43 PM, Brian Farrell <farreb1@...> wrote:
? Lee,
I had the same problem with the coupler after running over a crab pot with our? T27. I was able to epoxy it back together. The piece was originally bonded together. Since mine was a clean break, like yours appears to be, I just bonded mine back together this spring. It has been fine ever since. I'd be weary about bolting it through as the Farymanns move around a fair bit.
I found a company in Germany that remanufactures the couplers. I'll see if I can dig up the info.
Also if you need Farymann parts in general try this place:
Machinefabriek Rotterdam BV
Ophemertstraat 43 - Hal 2
3089 JD Rotterdam
Havennummer 2510
They have been responsive. Unfortunately,? I haven't been able to locate a decent parts supplier in the US.
P.S. I follow S/V Dawn on Instagram. You guys have made yourselves a beautiful boat!
Sincerely,
Brian and Ewa? S/V Serenity T27-2 Galesville, MD
Pictures attached.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative off the shelf solutions. I've spoken to Farymann North America, Beta Marine, PYI inc, and others. The bolt pattern and pilot are simply nonstandard.
I'm beginning to wonder about through bolting the whole piece to get me home, but worried about how it might hold up with the vibration of the single cylinder. The design of the coupling is supposed to account for this.
Lee
<PXL_20230710_164119805.jpg> <PXL_20230710_152547692.jpg> <PXL_20230710_121120964.jpg>
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After talking with West system and Brian (above), I've glued the existing part with g-flex 655. This is plan B. It's of course a temporary solution. I also have a CNC operator friend who has independently dreamed up a solution similar to thev attached photo. Essentially, we'll use an existing yanmar flexible coupler with an adapter on either side. Of course, he's working off my field measurements and shipping the adapters to me... So we'll see if it all fits when it gets here. If it does, it's a permanent solution. Best, Lee
#663 Dawn 
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Lee, I found the link to the company that makes new flex couplers. Unfortunately it is in the Netherlands...but it looks to be a direct replacement. ? MDV Techniek Rinia van Nautaweg 3S 9061AA GYTSJERK ? Email: Info@... Telefoon / WhatsApp: 06-48630836
Brian
On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 10:36 AM lm53187 < muellerl@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
After talking with West system and Brian (above), I've glued the existing part with g-flex 655. This is plan B. It's of course a temporary solution.
I also have a CNC operator friend who has independently dreamed up a solution similar to thev attached photo. Essentially, we'll use an existing yanmar flexible coupler with an adapter on either side. Of course, he's working off my field measurements and shipping the adapters to me... So we'll see if it all fits when it gets here. If it does, it's a permanent solution.
Best,
Lee
#663 Dawn 
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