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Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
First thing to do is stop calling it a daggerboard.?
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On Sep 10, 2023, at 7:30 PM, Patrick McGough < patrick.mcgough@...> wrote: Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
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Assuming?access to a travel lift, lift her out with the board down. Run a new cable down and secure it to the board with a nicopress sleeve on a stainless?steel cable. You will then need to secure?the upper end of the new cable to the lifting bar.? On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 8:02?PM William Fleischer via <fleischerwilliam= [email protected]> wrote:
First thing to do is stop calling it a daggerboard.?
Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Hi Patrick,
A bit back now, the yard came up with and executed the idea of
replacing the steel uphaul with Dynema, and then just told me they did
it after the fact.
At least if the centerboard came free, you know about where it is.
If you show the TravelLift operator the drawing of the boat, they
should be able to work around a dangling centerboard. Now might be a
good time to haul out and service all of that (and I need to again as
well).
I'd consider plugging the uphaul hole and running with a permanent
centerboard before taking it off. You'll be a little slower downwind,
you may sometimes drag it on the bottom, and having it down will
increase the tendency of the boat to try to head up when you're trying
to go downwind (and possibly even broach in high wind). It pivoting
is kind of a nice feature if you have shoaling. If you do that and
you aren't hauling it up, consider re-enforcing the fiberglass around
the pivot pin on the inside of the trunk.
I guess the first handful of boats had bronze centerboards. If anyone
has one of those laying around, I'd love to know what you want for it.
Cheers,
-scott
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On 9/10/23, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote: Good Evening,
My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off. I am going to dive on her
tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the
down
position. Has anyone else had this happen? What are alternatives or what
has been tried before:
* Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if
she has come out of the trunk.what attachment pieces would be needed with
the cable at the attachment point?
* Temporarily get the dagger board back up..by running a line or
multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail? Will the
daggerboard saw thru those lines? Once I have the lines under the
daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
* Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board
all together?
What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh
my
options intelligently? Any and all advice are welcome.
Patrick
SV Petrel - 1954 Tartan 27
|
Hi Patrick, My apologies for the previous somewhat snarky reply.? Technically the T27 does have a centerboard though.? I find that the terms: "swing keel", "centerboard", "daggerboard", "fin keel" are often misunderstood or misused.? I would have understood what you were asking had you mentioned "that keel extender thingy".
So, your lifting cable has parted from your centerboard.? This only means that you cannot control the attitude of the centerboard in the usual way.? It also does not mean that your board is automatically pointing straight down.? Often times the centerboard will get stuck in the trunk after being in the water as barnacles find a home in there.? You will have to dive the boat to figure out if the board is down, or not.? Another way to figure out if the centerboard is in the down position is to take your boat out under power and try a few tight turns with it.? If it seems to take forever to turn then the board is likely up.? If the boat responds handily to your steering commands, then it is probably using the centerboard to help pivot the boat through each turn.??
This cable parted on my T27 also.? Boat was on stands in the yard at the time so I could easily see what was going on.? I was able to take an old sheet (line) and I run that from one primary winch (stbd) under the boat and across the centerboard slot to the other primary winch (port).? Tighten this cable and your centerboard will be held in the mostly "up" position and should not present a problem to launching or hauling the boat.
You should be able to drop the centerboard from your T27.? Usually, owners dig a hole under their keel (fair amount of digging) and carefully drop the 100 # centerboard.? If you could arrange to be left in the slings overnight, you might not have to dig that hole.? The boat will sail fine without the centerboard.? It will sail a bit better with it though (tighter turns for one thing).?
Another thing I have heard of others doing is replacing the wire rope for the centerboard control line with a strong Dyneema type line.? Be advised that Dyneema can chafe a lot faster than a 9x16 wire rope.? Wire rope just requires the right hardware to fix it in place and so does Dyneema which doesn't like being tied in knots.? I haven't tried this but I would use it in a pinch and you could use the dyneema to re-thread a wire rope section if you changed your mind.? Also remember that the centerboard trunk section inside the hull is below the waterline (which is why there should be a tube protecting it as it comes up near the companion way.
Good luck with this.
Best. Caleb D T27 #328 (917)453 6846
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 07:30:52 PM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
How well she sails without a centerboard seems to be a recurring
discussion topic. I've definitely found that I point much higher on
to the wind and tack much more easily and quickly (even carrying some
speed through!) with the centerboard. Hard to say if you would lament
the loss of it, but quite possibly.
If you do haul out, look at the pivot pin and where the pivot pin goes
through the board.
-scott
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On 9/10/23, Caleb Davison via groups.io <calebjess@...> wrote: Hi Patrick,My apologies for the previous somewhat snarky reply.
Technically the T27 does have a centerboard though. I find that the terms:
"swing keel", "centerboard", "daggerboard", "fin keel" are often
misunderstood or misused. I would have understood what you were asking had
you mentioned "that keel extender thingy".
So, your lifting cable has parted from your centerboard. This only means
that you cannot control the attitude of the centerboard in the usual way.
It also does not mean that your board is automatically pointing straight
down. Often times the centerboard will get stuck in the trunk after being
in the water as barnacles find a home in there. You will have to dive the
boat to figure out if the board is down, or not. Another way to figure out
if the centerboard is in the down position is to take your boat out under
power and try a few tight turns with it. If it seems to take forever to
turn then the board is likely up. If the boat responds handily to your
steering commands, then it is probably using the centerboard to help pivot
the boat through each turn.
This cable parted on my T27 also. Boat was on stands in the yard at the
time so I could easily see what was going on. I was able to take an old
sheet (line) and I run that from one primary winch (stbd) under the boat and
across the centerboard slot to the other primary winch (port). Tighten this
cable and your centerboard will be held in the mostly "up" position and
should not present a problem to launching or hauling the boat.
You should be able to drop the centerboard from your T27. Usually, owners
dig a hole under their keel (fair amount of digging) and carefully drop the
100 # centerboard. If you could arrange to be left in the slings overnight,
you might not have to dig that hole. The boat will sail fine without the
centerboard. It will sail a bit better with it though (tighter turns for
one thing).
Another thing I have heard of others doing is replacing the wire rope for
the centerboard control line with a strong Dyneema type line. Be advised
that Dyneema can chafe a lot faster than a 9x16 wire rope. Wire rope just
requires the right hardware to fix it in place and so does Dyneema which
doesn't like being tied in knots. I haven't tried this but I would use it
in a pinch and you could use the dyneema to re-thread a wire rope section if
you changed your mind. Also remember that the centerboard trunk section
inside the hull is below the waterline (which is why there should be a tube
protecting it as it comes up near the companion way.
Good luck with this.
Best.Caleb DT27 #328(917)453 6846
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 07:30:52 PM EDT, Patrick McGough
<patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Good Evening,
My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off. I am going to dive on her
tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down
position. Has anyone else had this happen? What are alternatives or what
has been tried before:
- Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if
she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with
the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple
lines under the board and securing to the rub rail? Will the daggerboard
saw thru those lines? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it
possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all
together?
What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my
options intelligently? Any and all advice are welcome.
Patrick
SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
When it comes to the centerboard, there are a lot of variations over the years.
On mine, it would be impossible to reattach the cable while the boat is in the water because even when the centerboard is all the way down, it is not possible to access the portion where the cable attaches. Instead, the whole board needs to be removed, and that can not be done with the boat in the water. I think that is not true on all T27s. If the cable has rusted, then the place where the pin attaches the board to the trunk is probably not far behind. Once that goes, the centerboard will be lost forever. And a new one costs as much as a used T27. So, now is a good time to remove the centerboard entirely and repair all the parts that could break. It should also be noted that the cable has a tendency to saw through the fairlead pipe and that can lead to a leak below the waterline. The cable is stainless steel and the pipe is bronze -- guess who wins in a friction contest. To remove and replace the centerboard, you will need the boat blocked up pretty high. It is also surprisingly hard to get the centerboard off. Once you remove the caps in the bilge, you need to slide the pin out. But that is hard when there is a heavy centerboard hanging on it. Getting it back in is no picnic either. Though, that portion of my board has been rebuilt and the fit is very tight. Perhaps there is more room for error on your board.
If you are going to remove or replace the centerboard while in the sling, I would expect to spend at least an hour getting it out or back in again. Definitely not a 5 minute job. The board is also pretty darn heavy (100lbs maybe?), so you are going to need some strong people or some fancy jigs to maneuver it. Maybe it will go quickly for you -- but I wouldn't count on it and then have the yard workers mad at you.
If you have to raise the board temporarily, you could do it with some lines as you described. It is a heavy board and I would not want to rely on that for long? -- just long enough to haul out the boat.
You can sail the T27 without the centerboard, but performance will definitely suffer.
Some people replace the wire with dyneema, which is certainly strong enough. But I am concerned that dyneema will chafe too easily -- especially if you are in water where barnacles or other hard growth are common.
The repairs for the centerboard are not hard, just annoying. But they are pretty important.
- jeremy
Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Patrick,
Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me.
Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that.
Cheers.
Caleb D
T27 #328, 1967
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 07:30:52 PM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Caleb Davison via groups.io Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 10:40 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Patrick,
It is all falling into place for me.? I know the Chessy fairly well, especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat.? Hull # 79 fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.??
If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:?? Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out.? If there is hard growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the trunk.? It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove.? I used to use a Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job.? Once you loosen the board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat.? In any case I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position.? You also cannot successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the longer the drier, the better).? You might even consider doing the epoxy job on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom painting.? Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees though.? In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope with.
I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone on this board.? I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat).
I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed.? It is an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.? Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind.? Sometimes, dousing the jib can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.??
Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her?
Best, Caleb D T27 #328 NY
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 07:16:44 AM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Caleb Davison via groups.io Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 10:40 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
So the centerboard has dropped down.? I am going to take her out into the middle of the channel so the board drops down far enough that I can drop a piece of Dyneema with some lead weights and tie to the centerboard and hopefully haul back up.? Right now the board is digging a nice trench in the bottom and hoping that when I start to move forward it will push the board back into the trunk.
The Atomic 4 was recovered with a Universal.? Have 2 Atomic 4 engines in the garage for use with the Pearson 30 Atomic 4.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Caleb Davison via groups.io" <calebjess@...> Date: 9/11/23 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles
Patrick,
It is all falling into place for me.? I know the Chessy fairly well, especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat.? Hull # 79 fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.??
If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:?? Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out.? If there is hard growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the trunk.? It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove.? I used to use a Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job.? Once you loosen the board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat.? In any case I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position.? You also cannot successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the longer the drier, the better).? You might even consider doing the epoxy job on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom painting.? Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees though.? In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope with.
I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone on this board.? I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat).
I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed.? It is an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.? Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind.? Sometimes, dousing the jib can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.??
Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her?
Best, Caleb D T27 #328 NY
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 07:16:44 AM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ? ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
If you end up hauling the boat and being on the hard for a little time like Caleb suggested, ask the yard to block you high with 24 inches of clearance if you want to remove the board and check the pivot pin area.?
That clearance should allow for the board to be removed in the horizontal (“board up”) orientation without digging and provide enough room to support/raise/lower it out of the trunk with a hydraulic car jack (four wheeled somewhat low profile kind, not a bottle jack) under it. Switch the jack position from forward to aft ends of the board and vice-versa a couple times and use timber to shim it at the opposite end as the jack and you can raise and lower it with fine adjustments as needed.
If renewing the wire rope, be sure to use 316 stainless and hardware, not 304, especially since it’s in the wet/dry zone!
Brent Bass S/V Lola, #438, Cataumet, MA XR mobile device
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sep 11, 2023, at 11:01 PM, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
? So the centerboard has dropped down.? I am going to take her out into the middle of the channel so the board drops down far enough that I can drop a piece of Dyneema with some lead weights and tie to the centerboard and hopefully haul back up.? Right now the board is digging a nice trench in the bottom and hoping that when I start to move forward it will push the board back into the trunk.
The Atomic 4 was recovered with a Universal.? Have 2 Atomic 4 engines in the garage for use with the Pearson 30 Atomic 4.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: "Caleb Davison via groups.io" <calebjess@...> Date: 9/11/23 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles
Patrick,
It is all falling into place for me.? I know the Chessy fairly well, especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat.? Hull # 79 fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.??
If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:?? Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out.? If there is hard growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the trunk.? It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove.? I used to use a Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job.? Once you loosen the board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat.? In any case I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position.? You also cannot successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the longer the drier, the better).? You might even consider doing the epoxy job on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom painting.? Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees though.? In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope with.
I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone on this board.? I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat).
I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed.? It is an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.? Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind.? Sometimes, dousing the jib can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.??
Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her?
Best, Caleb D T27 #328 NY
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 07:16:44 AM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ? ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Good Morning, ? Thank you all for the sound advice.? I determined that the centerboard is down.? The trunk and the pivot are in good working order.? My thought was to feed a new line down thru the uphaul tube (pardon me if I didn’t use the correct term) and then go under and re-attach at the connection point on the centerboard.? My issue is….it appears to be resistance right at the top of the trunk and the line won’t feed down and out of the boat.? Is there some sort of valve or plate or something at the top of the trunk that is prohibiting me from doing this?? The thing to do would be to remove the uphaul tube, but being at or below the water line….that’s a lot of water that comes streaming into the boat and so I don’t think that is the solution, but I wanted to get you all’s opinion or experience on what is at the top of the trunk where the tube is connected.? I feel like I am getting closer and closer to having to have her pulled.? I am just trying to eeek out a solution to keep in the water and continuing sailing for a couple of more months. ? As usual, any all guidance is appreciated…even the snarky comments about the correct terms. ? Patrick ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brent Bass Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 11:21 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles ? If you end up hauling the boat and being on the hard for a little time like Caleb suggested, ask the yard to block you high with 24 inches of clearance if you want to remove the board and check the pivot pin area.? That clearance should allow for the board to be removed in the horizontal (“board up”) orientation without digging and provide enough room to support/raise/lower it out of the trunk with a hydraulic car jack (four wheeled somewhat low profile kind, not a bottle jack) under it. Switch the jack position from forward to aft ends of the board and vice-versa a couple times and use timber to shim it at the opposite end as the jack and you can raise and lower it with fine adjustments as needed. If renewing the wire rope, be sure to use 316 stainless and hardware, not 304, especially since it’s in the wet/dry zone! S/V Lola, #438, Cataumet, MA ? So the centerboard has dropped down.? I am going to take her out into the middle of the channel so the board drops down far enough that I can drop a piece of Dyneema with some lead weights and tie to the centerboard and hopefully haul back up.? Right now the board is digging a nice trench in the bottom and hoping that when I start to move forward it will push the board back into the trunk. The Atomic 4 was recovered with a Universal.? Have 2 Atomic 4 engines in the garage for use with the Pearson 30 Atomic 4. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message -------- Date: 9/11/23 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles It is all falling into place for me.? I know the Chessy fairly well, especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat.? Hull # 79 fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.?? If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:?? Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out.? If there is hard growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the trunk.? It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove.? I used to use a Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job.? Once you loosen the board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat.? In any case I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position.? You also cannot successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the longer the drier, the better).? You might even consider doing the epoxy job on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom painting.? Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees though.? In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope with. I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone on this board.? I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat). I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed.? It is an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.? Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind.? Sometimes, dousing the jib can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.?? Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her? Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ? ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 ?
|
Let us know how it all shakes out!
Attached a little snark, just for fun ;)
-scott
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 9/13/23, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote: Good Morning,
Thank you all for the sound advice. I determined that the centerboard is
down. The trunk and the pivot are in good working order. My thought was to
feed a new line down thru the uphaul tube (pardon me if I didn’t use the
correct term) and then go under and re-attach at the connection point on the
centerboard. My issue is….it appears to be resistance right at the top of
the trunk and the line won’t feed down and out of the boat. Is there some
sort of valve or plate or something at the top of the trunk that is
prohibiting me from doing this? The thing to do would be to remove the
uphaul tube, but being at or below the water line….that’s a lot of water
that comes streaming into the boat and so I don’t think that is the
solution, but I wanted to get you all’s opinion or experience on what is at
the top of the trunk where the tube is connected. I feel like I am getting
closer and closer to having to have her pulled. I am just trying to eeek
out a solution to keep in the water and continuing sailing for a couple of
more months.
As usual, any all guidance is appreciated…even the snarky comments about the
correct terms.
Patrick
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brent Bass
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2023 11:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles
If you end up hauling the boat and being on the hard for a little time like
Caleb suggested, ask the yard to block you high with 24 inches of clearance
if you want to remove the board and check the pivot pin area.
That clearance should allow for the board to be removed in the horizontal
(“board up”) orientation without digging and provide enough room to
support/raise/lower it out of the trunk with a hydraulic car jack (four
wheeled somewhat low profile kind, not a bottle jack) under it. Switch the
jack position from forward to aft ends of the board and vice-versa a couple
times and use timber to shim it at the opposite end as the jack and you can
raise and lower it with fine adjustments as needed.
If renewing the wire rope, be sure to use 316 stainless and hardware, not
304, especially since it’s in the wet/dry zone!
Brent Bass
S/V Lola, #438, Cataumet, MA
XR mobile device
On Sep 11, 2023, at 11:01 PM, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...
<mailto:patrick.mcgough@...> > wrote:
?
So the centerboard has dropped down. I am going to take her out into the
middle of the channel so the board drops down far enough that I can drop a
piece of Dyneema with some lead weights and tie to the centerboard and
hopefully haul back up. Right now the board is digging a nice trench in the
bottom and hoping that when I start to move forward it will push the board
back into the trunk.
The Atomic 4 was recovered with a Universal. Have 2 Atomic 4 engines in the
garage for use with the Pearson 30 Atomic 4.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Caleb Davison via groups.io" <calebjess@...
<mailto:calebjess@...> >
Date: 9/11/23 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles
Patrick,
It is all falling into place for me. I know the Chessy fairly well,
especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat. Hull # 79
fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.
If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:
Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out. If there is hard
growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the
trunk. It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two
until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove. I used to use a
Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but
really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job. Once you loosen the
board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised
in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat. In any case
I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat
that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position. You also cannot
successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the
longer the drier, the better). You might even consider doing the epoxy job
on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom
painting. Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees
though. In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope
with.
I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone
on this board. I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I
am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to
remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat).
I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed. It is
an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.
Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind. Sometimes, dousing the jib
can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or
hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.
Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her?
Best,
Caleb D
T27 #328
NY
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 07:16:44 AM EDT, Patrick McGough
<patrick.mcgough@... <mailto:patrick.mcgough@...> > wrote:
Caleb,
That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh. It is a
1964 and may be hull number 79. Thanks for all the helpful information. I
think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down. The boat
is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a
weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.
The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide
just what it looks like down below. I am inclined right now to get her
lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down,
pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.
I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the
centerboard. I think she points really nicely. I don’t race her (that’s
what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.
At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru
the wind. I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess
Northern Bay) so the water is brackish.
Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this
afternoon.
Patrick
From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Caleb Davison via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 10:40 PM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles
Patrick,
Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat: the Tartan 27
(mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio). Your signature says:
SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964
Tartan 27. Does it have a hull #? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it
is probably made of wood and quite different than ours. Sounds like a typo
to me.
Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.
Salt, or brackish, or fresh. General location might be helpful: Carolinas,
Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that.
Cheers.
Caleb D
T27 #328, 1967
On Sunday, September 10, 2023 at 07:30:52 PM EDT, Patrick McGough
<patrick.mcgough@... <mailto:patrick.mcgough@...> > wrote:
Good Evening,
My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off. I am going to dive on her
tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down
position. Has anyone else had this happen? What are alternatives or what
has been tried before:
* Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she
has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the
cable at the attachment point?
* Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple
lines under the board and securing to the rub rail? Will the daggerboard
saw thru those lines? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it
possible to raise the board from the deck?
* Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all
together?
What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my
options intelligently? Any and all advice are welcome.
Patrick
SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
|
Ahoy!
As originally built on my similar era boat -- the pipe is just a pipe glassed into the trunk. But, unfortunately, they did not get the angles quite right -- so the cable rubs on the pipe and over time it will wear through the pipe. Since the pipe is below the waterline, that ain't so good. This has led to many owners retrofitting some sort of guide that fits in the pipe to keep the cable from rubbing. It is possible yours has been modified this way. I have attached a photo of how mine looked when I opened it up. As for terms -- I believe the cable is sometimes referred to as the centerboard pennant. And the pipe is sometimes referred to as the fairlead pipe -- though I am not convinced that is correct. In my case, I used a belt and suspenders approach for the repair. I found a bronze tube that I could slide inside the existing pipe to reinforce it, and I added a uhmw bushing to try to prevent future damage.
- jeremy
Good Morning, ? Thank you all for the sound advice.? I determined that the centerboard is down.? The trunk and the pivot are in good working order.? My thought was to feed a new line down thru the uphaul tube (pardon me if I didn’t use the correct term) and then go under and re-attach at the connection point on the centerboard.? My issue is….it appears to be resistance right at the top of the trunk and the line won’t feed down and out of the boat.? Is there some sort of valve or plate or something at the top of the trunk that is prohibiting me from doing this?? The thing to do would be to remove the uphaul tube, but being at or below the water line….that’s a lot of water that comes streaming into the boat and so I don’t think that is the solution, but I wanted to get you all’s opinion or experience on what is at the top of the trunk where the tube is connected.? I feel like I am getting closer and closer to having to have her pulled.? I am just trying to eeek out a solution to keep in the water and continuing sailing for a couple of more months. ? As usual, any all guidance is appreciated…even the snarky comments about the correct terms. ? Patrick ? ? If you end up hauling the boat and being on the hard for a little time like Caleb suggested, ask the yard to block you high with 24 inches of clearance if you want to remove the board and check the pivot pin area.? That clearance should allow for the board to be removed in the horizontal (“board up”) orientation without digging and provide enough room to support/raise/lower it out of the trunk with a hydraulic car jack (four wheeled somewhat low profile kind, not a bottle jack) under it. Switch the jack position from forward to aft ends of the board and vice-versa a couple times and use timber to shim it at the opposite end as the jack and you can raise and lower it with fine adjustments as needed. If renewing the wire rope, be sure to use 316 stainless and hardware, not 304, especially since it’s in the wet/dry zone! S/V Lola, #438, Cataumet, MA ? So the centerboard has dropped down.? I am going to take her out into the middle of the channel so the board drops down far enough that I can drop a piece of Dyneema with some lead weights and tie to the centerboard and hopefully haul back up.? Right now the board is digging a nice trench in the bottom and hoping that when I start to move forward it will push the board back into the trunk. The Atomic 4 was recovered with a Universal.? Have 2 Atomic 4 engines in the garage for use with the Pearson 30 Atomic 4. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message -------- Date: 9/11/23 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles It is all falling into place for me.? I know the Chessy fairly well, especially around Annapolis where a friend keeps a 30+' sailboat.? Hull # 79 fits with the Douglass & McLeod numbering schedule.?? If you are dead set on removing the centerboard, may I suggest:?? Do not try to remove the board immediately upon haul out.? If there is hard growth, like barnacles, they will have effectively trapped the board in the trunk.? It will be much easier to keep it on the hard for a week or two until all the barnacles die and are easier to remove.? I used to use a Keyhole saw (long thin blade) to loosen up the growth in the trunk, but really any hard, thin, metal tool will do the job.? Once you loosen the board enough for it to move you can either (a) ask to have your boat raised in the slings again, or (b) dig that hole underneath your boat.? In any case I'd suggest that you run a line from one winch to the other, under the boat that will nominally keep the board in the "up" position.? You also cannot successfully epoxy a wet hull, so you need to let things dry out a bit (the longer the drier, the better).? You might even consider doing the epoxy job on the centerboard trunk/slot in the spring, before launch and bottom painting.? Epoxy work does like ambient temps to be above 60f degrees though.? In the Del/Mar/Va area that shouldn't be too difficult to cope with. I also stand by my assertion that your centerboard will be wanted by someone on this board.? I can't promise what you might be able to get for it but I am thinking a reasonable price might be somewhere above what it cost you to remove (add a coupla hundred - it's a boat). I also love the way the T27 sails without the centerboard deployed.? It is an old school, cutaway forefoot, full keel boat so it turns quite slowly.? Doesn't want to go through the eye of the wind.? Sometimes, dousing the jib can make it easier to come about (pivot - if you have a roller furler), or hiding the main sail helps turn the boat downwind.?? Do you still have the original Atomic 4 engine in her? Caleb, ? That was a typo just like the reference to a daggerboard….sigh.? It is a 1964 and may be hull number 79.? Thanks for all the helpful information.? I think the centerboard is still attached and at some level of down.? The boat is in about 6 feet of water and when the low tide sets in she sits at a weird angle which I can only attribute to her sitting on her centerboard.? The trunk is in good shape and I’ll find out this afternoon on the high tide just what it looks like down below.? I am inclined right now to get her lifted and left in the slings long enough for me to swing the board down, pop the pivot pin and then glass everything.? ? I have been sailing her for about 4 years now and have not once lowered the centerboard.? I think she points really nicely.? I don’t race her (that’s what the Pearson 30 is for) and have been quite pleased with her handling.? At only 27 feet, she pivots nicely thru the wind….oh wait….tacks nicely thru the wind.? I sail her on the Chesapeake (above the bridge so I guess Northern Bay) so the water is brackish. ? Thanks everyone for the advice and I’ll let you know how it goes this afternoon. ? Patrick ? ? ? ? Just to be sure that we are talking about the same boat:? the Tartan 27 (mostly made by Douglas & McLeod in Ohio).? Your signature says: SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 If the year is a typo then it makes sense that your boat is likely a 1964 Tartan 27.? Does it have a hull #?? If your boat is truly from 1954 then it is probably made of wood and quite different than ours.? Sounds like a typo to me. Also, it might help to know what waters you have been keeping your boat in.? Salt, or brackish, or fresh.? General location might be helpful:? Carolinas, Chessy, Delaware Bay, LIS, or north of all that. ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27 ?
|
I changed to 1/4” braided line. I have it inside a long piece of fuel hose from the pulley to inside the trunk for chafing all wedged inside the 3/4” hose with another hose a few inches long to keep the fuel hose in place. I can’t remember the hose sizes but everything fit snug. I’d guess 3/8” fuel hose, 5/8” bushing inside the original 3/4” hose, ?then out of paranoia and to stiffen the bottom the 3/4” hose is inside a 1.5 or 1.25” hose.? I’ve had to replace the cable in the water before and it’s doable. If you go with braid I would recommend the knot to be as close?as possible to the centerboard or it won’t pull all the way into the trunk.?
This solution has worked for me for about four years now, I dont use the centerboard much but it works when I need it.? ?The nicopress fittings on the stainless cable would fail from electrolysis every 2/3 years, so if you keep the SS cable wire clips might be better.?
Scott S/V Argo
Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
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I have tried a wire snake to go down thru that tube and into the trunk and it won’t budge.? I think I am at a point that I can’t complete this without pulling the boat…this is what mine set up looks like: ?  
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Scott Hoehn Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 4:51 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles ? I changed to 1/4” braided line. I have it inside a long piece of fuel hose from the pulley to inside the trunk for chafing all wedged inside the 3/4” hose with another hose a few inches long to keep the fuel hose in place. I can’t remember the hose sizes but everything fit snug. I’d guess 3/8” fuel hose, 5/8” bushing inside the original 3/4” hose, ?then out of paranoia and to stiffen the bottom the 3/4” hose is inside a 1.5 or 1.25” hose.? I’ve had to replace the cable in the water before and it’s doable. If you go with braid I would recommend the knot to be as close?as possible to the centerboard or it won’t pull all the way into the trunk.? This solution has worked for me for about four years now, I dont use the centerboard much but it works when I need it.? ?The nicopress fittings on the stainless cable would fail from electrolysis every 2/3 years, so if you keep the SS cable wire clips might be better.? ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
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Patrick's picture of the hose clamps on the bottom of the protective hose illustrates a fundamental point of good engineering practices.? Always use 2 hose clamps for any connection that is below the water level.? You can see that a 2nd clamp was added at a later time by the fact that two different brand hose clamps were used.
The only suggestion I can make for Patrick at this point is if you can get a boroscope (?? This will nominally allow you to look down that hose and into the centerboard trunk.? The big problem is you can't see what is down there.? The pivot point for the centerboard is also very close to where the control line enters the trunk, so even if the board is partially down it may still restrict something like a wire snake from getting past it.? I also still stick to my assertion that the centerboard trunk is ground zero for hard barnacle growth.? The best way to get rid of the barnacles is to haul out and let it dry, then painstakingly clean it up.
Good luck.
Caleb D. T27 #328
On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:56:45 AM EDT, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote:
I have tried a wire snake to go down thru that tube and into the trunk and it won’t budge.? I think I am at a point that I can’t complete this without pulling the boat…this is what mine set up looks like: ?  
?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Scott Hoehn Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 4:51 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Daggerboard Troubles ? I changed to 1/4” braided line. I have it inside a long piece of fuel hose from the pulley to inside the trunk for chafing all wedged inside the 3/4” hose with another hose a few inches long to keep the fuel hose in place. I can’t remember the hose sizes but everything fit snug. I’d guess 3/8” fuel hose, 5/8” bushing inside the original 3/4” hose, ?then out of paranoia and to stiffen the bottom the 3/4” hose is inside a 1.5 or 1.25” hose.? I’ve had to replace the cable in the water before and it’s doable. If you go with braid I would recommend the knot to be as close?as possible to the centerboard or it won’t pull all the way into the trunk.? This solution has worked for me for about four years now, I dont use the centerboard much but it works when I need it.? ?The nicopress fittings on the stainless cable would fail from electrolysis every 2/3 years, so if you keep the SS cable wire clips might be better.? ? Good Evening, ? My cable for my daggerboard has rusted off.? I am going to dive on her tomorrow to see if the board has dropped out of the trunk and is in the down position.? Has anyone else had this happen?? What are alternatives or what has been tried before: - Feed a new cable down thru the trunk and re-attached to the board if she has come out of the trunk…what attachment pieces would be needed with the cable at the attachment point?
- Temporarily get the dagger board back up….by running a line or multiple lines under the board and securing to the rub rail?? Will the daggerboard saw thru those lines?? Once I have the lines under the daggerboard, is it possible to raise the board from the deck?
- Could I have her lifted out of the water and just remove the board all together?
? What have others done both successfully and unsuccessfully so I can weigh my options intelligently?? Any and all advice are welcome. ? Patrick SV Petrel – 1954 Tartan 27
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Good Morning, ? So I have arranged with a local boatyard to pull Petrel on Tuesday morning.? I explained what I was in need of doing and the marina manager told me that they can’t block me real high and said that they might just leave me in the lift and let me work on her there.? Caleb, I have one of those endoscopes and I am going to go see if I can see what is blocking the tube.? So I wanted to ask the group these couple of questions: - If I am going to lift her high enough that the centerboard swings completely down, and if I decide to just remove the centerboard, what will I need to remove the pin that holds it in place?
- If I am going to keep the centerboard and continue down the course of inserting a Dyneema line, then I clearly have to be able to get to the connection point and the boat has to be high enough to get to that point, I just have to clear the tube of whatever seems to be obstructing the easy and try to reduce chafe although if I am just doing all of this to basically secure the centerboard to never ever use it then chafe is not going to be a concern
? I guess right now I am leaning toward removing the pin, removing the centerboard, glassing over the two points that give me access to the pin, leaving the trunk open. ? Any and all comments, guidance, and tips are greatly appreciated.? As I told the manager, I want to get this fixed so I can get some fall sailing in.? Right now that centerboard prohibits me from getting back and forth into my dock because I don’t have the 6 feet that it needs to clear. ? Have a great weekend. ? Patrick
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I don't often get invited to just weigh in with an opinion (certainly
never at work). I'm not sure what to do with the power, but I'm high
on it. Thank you for that.
Servicing the pivot pin, centerboard, and uphaul if not important to
you may be to someone else later. And I also think you should find a
nice blustery day and try the centerboard out at least once before
giving up on it. It might be considered safety gear, if you or anyone
else ever needs to tack in a blow and she's too slow coming about
without it.
Having to service the thing or anything else isn't fun, but it's at
least fairly straight forward, though I've read and been told that
it's really a two person job to pull and replace the pivot pin.
The bronze caps on the pivot pin on the forward part of the
centerboard trunk under the sole should come off. If they're stuck
and they require torque to get off, I recommend first re-enforcing the
fiberglass in the area around the bronze pipe out of the centerboad
trunk. #93 came to me with hairline cracks in a circle around the
portside base of the pivot pin, I believe from someone at some point
torquing a seized cap off. You should be able to remove both caps,
then use a drift or screwdriver or similar to push the pin out one
side, while someone or blocking supports the centerboard from below to
reduce pressure on the pivot pin. The pivot pin may need to be
replaced, and the centerboard may need machine shop work (there I go
again) if worn too thin at the hole for the pivot pin. If not, it may
need to be cleaned up (sanded) and then maybe some fiberglass epoxy
layup protecting the stainless steel (cuz stainless steel ain't all
that great) around the pivot pin. If the board has advanced corrosion
that's causing the fiberglass for a large amount of the entire thing
to split apart, then rebuilding it is much larger job, or else you're
possibly just replacing it. I think someone in here rebuilt one out
of G10. You'll know more when you see it. If it's just a matter of
cleaning up the pivot pin hole and uphaul hole, that's a fairly quick
job. Reinstalling it where it really becomes a two person job, I'm
lead to understand. Trying to get the pivot pin hole in the board
lined up with the pipes in the forward part of the centerboard trunk
is a trick. You might start with a sharpened piece of rod to get
through the hole and use that to align the board, then stick in the
replacement pivot pin. Then put the caps back on (obviously).
Given re-installing the thing is more or less a two person job, it
might be a good job for the yard, after you're done unclogging the
uphaul tube, making sure the caps will come off, etc.
A daggerboard instead of a centerboard would steal valuable room from
the main saloon, but I'm toying with the idea anyway.
-scott
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On 9/15/23, Patrick McGough <patrick.mcgough@...> wrote: Good Morning,
So I have arranged with a local boatyard to pull Petrel on Tuesday morning.
I explained what I was in need of doing and the marina manager told me that
they can’t block me real high and said that they might just leave me in the
lift and let me work on her there. Caleb, I have one of those endoscopes
and I am going to go see if I can see what is blocking the tube. So I
wanted to ask the group these couple of questions:
* If I am going to lift her high enough that the centerboard swings
completely down, and if I decide to just remove the centerboard, what will I
need to remove the pin that holds it in place?
* If I am going to keep the centerboard and continue down the course of
inserting a Dyneema line, then I clearly have to be able to get to the
connection point and the boat has to be high enough to get to that point, I
just have to clear the tube of whatever seems to be obstructing the easy and
try to reduce chafe although if I am just doing all of this to basically
secure the centerboard to never ever use it then chafe is not going to be a
concern
I guess right now I am leaning toward removing the pin, removing the
centerboard, glassing over the two points that give me access to the pin,
leaving the trunk open.
Any and all comments, guidance, and tips are greatly appreciated. As I told
the manager, I want to get this fixed so I can get some fall sailing in.
Right now that centerboard prohibits me from getting back and forth into my
dock because I don’t have the 6 feet that it needs to clear.
Have a great weekend.
Patrick
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