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Amount of Outhaul Travel?
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I¡¯m installing a new outhaul system with a 6:1 purchase internal to the boom. ? Can anyone offer guesstimates of how much actual travel distance to allow for the outhaul, from ?a fully flattened sail, to one let all the way out? ? 6¡±? ?12¡±? ?More? ? The main is loose-footed and I¡¯ve never had one of those. ? I¡¯m aware of using a velcro¡¯d strap to secure the clew ring, allowing it to slide along the boom; but how much travel should I allow for?
I want to make sure I¡¯ve allowed for ample travel, but at 6:1 the amount of tail could get excessive if I¡¯m allowing way more than is reasonable. ? Since I am The Lord of Overkill, I¡¯m running that tail thru an exit box, then outside the boom for about 7¡¯ over the cockpit, then back into the boom thru another exit box, where a shock cord system takes it up. ? In other words, no accumulation of line hanging in my face. ?Instead, all you see is a 7¡¯ length of (salsa) line outside of and parallel to the boom. ? To adjust the outhaul, I¡¯ll grab it and pull it aft, and the ¡®tail¡¯ generated by that action will be pulled into the boom by the shock cord system. ?The ¡®setting¡¯ will lock in place with a clam cleat. ?? Thanks! ? ?Warren Stein ?? |
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OK, here¡¯s another question for the group: ?Suggestions for an appropriate cleating device for the outhaul in my last post? ?What I think I need is, at least functionally, a pair of visegrips with rubber jaws, to easily and readily clamp or release a piece of straight 8mm line, so it can¡¯t move either way, In or out. ?It has to mount on the boom and not be a head-knocker, and not be too big; and be weatherproof.
My son and I got ambitious and moved forward with the project. ?It was a bear, but I think we¡¯ve succeeded. ?The system is basically two separate multi-part purchases, joined together by their running parts: ?The outhaul itself is Dyneema, running from the clew, into the boom, running forward internally, where it is spliced to the becket of one of two Harken three-sheave blocks, the little mini ones. ? The other ¡®side¡¯ of that 6:1 purchase is a reciprocal Harken mini, with its becket anchored to the gooseneck internally. ? So far, nothing unusual. ?But then, the running part between those two blocks, the part you¡¯d haul in or let out to control the outhaul, is then spliced to 8mm Salsa line, running outside the boom, coming out of the boom thru one exit box and re-entering the boom thru another. ? That¡¯s the only part In this system external to the boom. ? So what that means is, on the lower starboard side of the boom, running from about above the companionway, to about 15¡± in from the end of the boom, or about 7¡¯, is this Salsa line. ? If you pull it from forward to aft, it takes in the outhaul, 6:1. ? So it takes 6¡¯ of Salsa to move the outhaul 1¡¯. ? If you pull it from aft to forward, you¡¯re pulling against the shock cord take-up, but that allows the outhaul to pay out, again, 6:1.? All of this cumbersome description leads to the question: ?what sort of cleating device can anyone suggest for that Salsa line? ? It runs fore-to-aft along the boom, and its slack is automatically taken up, so at all times it¡¯s just a straight piece of line, but pull-able, either way. ? You can pull it forward; you can pull it aft. ?Either way it¡¯s just a straight tensioned piece of line. ?What I hadn¡¯t counted on was this: ? with no cleating device, if you just let it go, the shock cord take-up system goes to work, tensioning the outhaul and pulling it tight. ? I had expected to have to cleat it against pull from the sail, not the pull from the (opposing) shock cord. ? ?Now, in heavier weather, I WILL need to cleat against It being pulled OUT from the force of the main. ?But in calmer weather, it seems that I may have to cleat against it being pulled IN, by the shock cord. ? So I think what I want is some sort of small, non-head-smacking gripping device, ?Mounted on the boom above the cockpit, so I can open it easily, adjust the outhaul, and then close it, cinching the line both ways, so it can¡¯t be either pulled out by the sail or in by the shock cord. ? I¡¯m thinking of something like that Tiller-Tamer. ? ?Any ideas? ? Thanks! |
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Warren,
If I understand your outhaul setup correctly, wouldn't something like this mounted to the boom act to hold your control line in place? https://www.westmarine.com/buy/sea-dog--mini-clamcleat-for-1-8-1-4-rope--P002_064_002_002?pCode=115675&cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-GSC>NonB>Product%2520Type-_-115675&product_id=115675&creative=108421553284&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKCAjwltH3BRB6EiwAhj0IUNSxe-74zEVcAZd4q6y8Bj8VHUeiSn0DM3vta6rptLtLzkRUpsmIWxoCQVIQAvD_BwE
If that link doesn't work then google:? Sea Dog clam cleats
Caleb D
T27 #328
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 6:15 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Amount of Outhaul Travel? OK, here¡¯s another question for the group: ?Suggestions for an appropriate cleating device for the outhaul in my last post? ?What I think I need is, at least functionally, a pair of visegrips with rubber jaws, to easily and readily clamp or release a piece of straight 8mm line, so it can¡¯t move either way, In or out. ?It has to mount on the boom and not be a head-knocker, and not be too big; and be weatherproof.
My son and I got ambitious and moved forward with the project. ?It was a bear, but I think we¡¯ve succeeded. ?The system is basically two separate multi-part purchases, joined together by their running parts: ?The outhaul itself is Dyneema, running from the clew, into the boom, running forward internally, where it is spliced to the becket of one of two Harken three-sheave blocks, the little mini ones. ? The other ¡®side¡¯ of that 6:1 purchase is a reciprocal Harken mini, with its becket anchored to the gooseneck internally. ? So far, nothing unusual. ?But then, the running part between those two blocks, the part you¡¯d haul in or let out to control the outhaul, is then spliced to 8mm Salsa line, running outside the boom, coming out of the boom thru one exit box and re-entering the boom thru another. ? That¡¯s the only part In this system external to the boom. ? So what that means is, on the lower starboard side of the boom, running from about above the companionway, to about 15¡± in from the end of the boom, or about 7¡¯, is this Salsa line. ? If you pull it from forward to aft, it takes in the outhaul, 6:1. ? So it takes 6¡¯ of Salsa to move the outhaul 1¡¯. ? If you pull it from aft to forward, you¡¯re pulling against the shock cord take-up, but that allows the outhaul to pay out, again, 6:1.? All of this cumbersome description leads to the question: ?what sort of cleating device can anyone suggest for that Salsa line? ? It runs fore-to-aft along the boom, and its slack is automatically taken up, so at all times it¡¯s just a straight piece of line, but pull-able, either way. ? You can pull it forward; you can pull it aft. ?Either way it¡¯s just a straight tensioned piece of line. ?What I hadn¡¯t counted on was this: ? with no cleating device, if you just let it go, the shock cord take-up system goes to work, tensioning the outhaul and pulling it tight. ? I had expected to have to cleat it against pull from the sail, not the pull from the (opposing) shock cord. ? ?Now, in heavier weather, I WILL need to cleat against It being pulled OUT from the force of the main. ?But in calmer weather, it seems that I may have to cleat against it being pulled IN, by the shock cord. ? So I think what I want is some sort of small, non-head-smacking gripping device, ?Mounted on the boom above the cockpit, so I can open it easily, adjust the outhaul, and then close it, cinching the line both ways, so it can¡¯t be either pulled out by the sail or in by the shock cord. ? I¡¯m thinking of something like that Tiller-Tamer. ? ?Any ideas? ? Thanks! |
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Thank you, Caleb; good to hear from you. A clam cleat WAS the intended cleating device. Problem is, clam cleats hold only in ONE direction, not both. What I need is a device to hold against either being pulled out OR pulled in. Thoughts?
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On Jun 25, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> wrote: |
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Warren,
On the boat I am crewing on now there is a control line for the height of the spinnaker pole attachment along the mast.? It is a continuous loop of line that runs along the mast from fairly low (for setting up pole) to above head height for flying the spinnaker.? It is controlled (held in place) by two of those clam cleats (one facing each direction).? To operate this control line you must first take this line out of both clam cleats and it will move freely in either direction.? When desired pole height is reached you merely put the line back in both clam cleats (that are mounted in-line with the line they are intended to "hold").? I can try to take a picture of this the next time we race (next Wednesday).? It works fairly well but is a little annoying as you have to disengage the clam cleats before adjusting it, then re-engage them.? Not the worst downside since pole height is not a control that gets tweaked a lot (similarly for an outhaul which is usually set to handle the current wind strength).??
Caleb D
T27 #328 -----Original Message-----
From: Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 7:16 pm Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Amount of Outhaul Travel? Thank you, Caleb; good to hear from you.? A clam cleat WAS the intended cleating device.? Problem is, clam cleats hold only in ONE direction, not both.? What I need is a device to hold against either being pulled out OR pulled in.? Thoughts??
> On Jun 25, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Warren Stein via groups.io <wrsteinesq=[email protected]> wrote: > > ?OK, here¡¯s another question for the group:? Suggestions for an appropriate cleating device for the outhaul in my last post?? What I think I need is, at least functionally, a pair of visegrips with rubber jaws, to easily and readily clamp or release a piece of straight 8mm line, so it can¡¯t move either way, In or out.? It has to mount on the boom and not be a head-knocker, and not be too big; and be weatherproof. > > My son and I got ambitious and moved forward with the project.? It was a bear, but I think we¡¯ve succeeded.? The system is basically two separate multi-part purchases, joined together by their running parts:? The outhaul itself is Dyneema, running from the clew, into the boom, running forward internally, where it is spliced to the becket of one of two Harken three-sheave blocks, the little mini ones.? The other ¡®side¡¯ of that 6:1 purchase is a reciprocal Harken mini, with its becket anchored to the gooseneck internally.? So far, nothing unusual.? But then, the running part between those two blocks, the part you¡¯d haul in or let out to control the outhaul, is then spliced to 8mm Salsa line, running outside the boom, coming out of the boom thru one exit box and re-entering the boom thru another.? That¡¯s the only part In this system external to the boom.? So what that means is, on the lower starboard side of the boom, running from about above the companionway, to about 15¡± in from the end of the boom, or about 7¡¯, is this Salsa line.? If you pull it from forward to aft, it takes in the outhaul, 6:1.? So it takes 6¡¯ of Salsa to move the outhaul 1¡¯.? If you pull it from aft to forward, you¡¯re pulling against the shock cord take-up, but that allows the outhaul to pay out, again, 6:1. > > All of this cumbersome description leads to the question:? what sort of cleating device can anyone suggest for that Salsa line?? It runs fore-to-aft along the boom, and its slack is automatically taken up, so at all times it¡¯s just a straight piece of line, but pull-able, either way.? You can pull it forward; you can pull it aft.? Either way it¡¯s just a straight tensioned piece of line.? What I hadn¡¯t counted on was this:? with no cleating device, if you just let it go, the shock cord take-up system goes to work, tensioning the outhaul and pulling it tight.? I had expected to have to cleat it against pull from the sail, not the pull from the (opposing) shock cord.? ? Now, in heavier weather, I WILL need to cleat against It being pulled OUT from the force of the main.? But in calmer weather, it seems that I may have to cleat against it being pulled IN, by the shock cord.? So I think what I want is some sort of small, non-head-smacking gripping device,? Mounted on the boom above the cockpit, so I can open it easily, adjust the outhaul, and then close it, cinching the line both ways, so it can¡¯t be either pulled out by the sail or in by the shock cord.? I¡¯m thinking of something like that Tiller-Tamer.? ? Any ideas?? Thanks! |
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Certainly, two opposed clam cleats would work. But honestly, I was looking for a little more spare/simple/elegant a solution. I kinda picture some sort of bastardized window lock, the kind with the cam you turn to lock it. lf I had a turn-to-lock cam, and that pushed a rubberized clamp closed, that¡¯s kinda what I had in mind. It might not be boat gear, but maybe mountain-climbing gear; I don¡¯t know. I agree that normally, an outhaul tends to be a set-it-and-forget-it kind of adjustment; but that¡¯s not the sort of sailing I would prefer to actually practice, or to teach my son; so a real simple, real quick, open-the-cam-and-set-the-outhaul kind of convenience, and then maybe do it again shortly thereafter, so it gets adjusted a lot, is what I¡¯m striving for. Yeah, I can drive myself nuts... FWIW.
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On Jun 25, 2020, at 7:59 PM, Caleb Davison via groups.io <calebjess@...> wrote: |
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