Re: New Owner already has a dozen projects on hull 118
--- In T27Owners@..., "maurygallaher" <gallaher@...> wrote:
Hello, everyone!
Does anyone know if the old t-27.com stuff is available on
something like the waybackmachine or other archives?
I've seen the posts on the chain plate replacements. That project is currently underway. Is there any difference between the inner and
outer chainplates. They looked the same to me.
After haul out, I noticed that the blocks placed under the keel
(about 8 inches from the end) are always wet. The centerboard is MIA, so it might just be years of marine life draining, but its been out for weeks and there is always a wet spot there like its getting
enough drips to keep it from drying out. The aft sections of the
bilge still have a little water in them and the forward sections are dry. I'm concerned about the keel bolts. Anyone have any advice about looking into this? Any advice about inspecting the keel bolts in
general.
Also, my bilge is full of lead bricks. I read that later hull numbers had the ballast encased in the keel. Can anyone shed some light on
this. A friend made a very lucid remark that you don't want hundreds of pounds of lead coming out of the bilge if you get knocked on your ear.
Anyway, thanks in advance for the info. Glad to be here.
Maury, is it possible that one of the the plates has 7/16 hole for the lower shroud connection? I just picked up my new plates today. we are goingwith a 3 1/2 wide by 18" x 1/4 (only needs 3/16 thick) with 6 3/8"holes to be bolted inbetween the old plates (cut off below the deck skin)and below them as well. I went with 3/8 holes for all the clevis pins. I left the glassed gusset intact to bolt everything to. I think we will use some king of bushing through the old gusset at the bolts. good luck, D I had cover plates made up as well for better leak protection.
|
New Owner already has a dozen projects on hull 118
Hello, everyone!
Does anyone know if the old t-27.com stuff is available on something
like the waybackmachine or other archives?
I've seen the posts on the chain plate replacements. That project is
currently underway. Is there any difference between the inner and
outer chainplates. They looked the same to me.
After haul out, I noticed that the blocks placed under the keel
(about 8 inches from the end) are always wet. The centerboard is MIA,
so it might just be years of marine life draining, but its been out
for weeks and there is always a wet spot there like its getting
enough drips to keep it from drying out. The aft sections of the
bilge still have a little water in them and the forward sections are
dry. I'm concerned about the keel bolts. Anyone have any advice about
looking into this? Any advice about inspecting the keel bolts in
general.
Also, my bilge is full of lead bricks. I read that later hull numbers
had the ballast encased in the keel. Can anyone shed some light on
this. A friend made a very lucid remark that you don't want hundreds
of pounds of lead coming out of the bilge if you get knocked on your
ear.
Anyway, thanks in advance for the info. Glad to be here.
|
My experience and thoughts ? I have owned several larger boats Cat 30, S2 30, S2 28 all 1985 or newer. but much more satisfied with my 1978 T27-2 . Build quality, lines, sailing characterics, ease to maintain ,etc. ? I started my search for T27-2 in late 2005. Not many avail but prices ranged
from 13K to 19K for one with a diesel. ? I found one on upper chessy- owned and well maintained by original owner for 16K. ? It had a faryman diesel (2000 hrs) which started quickly and ran smooth. BUT some faryman parts tare hard to find or no longer avail. I estimated repower with a BETA for $8k. Since the engine ran well I split the cost of a future?repower and offered 12K which was accepted. ? Since owned the faryman has not missed a beat (I rebuilt injector pump for $350) and have no plans to repower ? Besides the sailing characteristics some of the other points I like ? 1)????? six opening port 2)????? kneel stepped mast 3)????? engine access 4)????? large
cockpit lockers 5)????? ice box 6)????? centerboard more flexibility and cheaper slips on certain shallow marinas ? ? PS besides the numerous favorable reviews on the T27 ?The coast of Summerby anthony bailey details a summer of sailing a T27 along the coast of new england
T27Owners@... wrote: Messages
In This Digest (4 Messages) - 1a.
- From: Armando Morell
- 1b.
- From: Peter Stark
- 1c.
- From: calebjess@...
- 1d.
- From: Paul Lee
| Messages - 1a.
-
Re: Your impression of the T27? Sun Nov?11,?2007 9:47?am (PST) I love my 74 T 27 but in my opinion $15K is a little on the high side for a 1978.
Of course a T27 in really good shape could certainly be worth that much or more so there is a judgment call here. What I am saying is that 1978 is fairly old and for that money You may find a more modern design (technology and computer designed hulls have come a long way . (I am an engineer) As I write this I feel disloyal to my classic but It is my honest opinion which is what you are asking for. Perhaps asking this same question outside the T27 world may give you another unbiased opinion. am --- iupdike < iupdike@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi group, > > I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my > budget but I've > never sailed one and need your advice. What are its > best point(s)of > sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be > sailing on the > Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann > diesel
probably needs > to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The > broker is asking > 15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the > questionable > engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 > needs. I'll get a > marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth > the cost. > > Thanks all! > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around - 1b.
-
Re: Your impression of the T27? Posted by: "Peter Stark" pdstark4@... ? Sun Nov?11,?2007 11:21?am (PST) I agree, $15K can buy you a lot more boat than 27ft. in today's used boat market...some old Bristols and or Pearsons in the 29 to 32 foot range can be had for this much...but buyer beware as to the condition of these...maybe the T27 in perfect shape is what you'd be better off with. Good luck, enjoy the journey. Pete Stark ----- Original Message ----- From: Armando Morell To: T27Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Your impression of the T27? I love my 74 T 27 but in my opinion $15K is a little on the high side for a 1978. Of course a T27 in really good shape could certainly be worth that much or more so there is a judgment call here. What I am saying is that 1978 is fairly old and for that money You may find a more modern design (technology and computer designed hulls have come a long way . (I am an engineer) As I write this I feel disloyal to my classic but It is my honest opinion which is what you are asking for. Perhaps asking this same question outside the T27 world may give you another unbiased opinion. am --- iupdike < iupdike@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi group, > > I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27.
It fits my > budget but I've > never sailed one and need your advice. What are its > best point(s)of > sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be > sailing on the > Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann > diesel probably needs > to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The > broker is asking > 15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the > questionable > engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 > needs. I'll get a > marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth > the cost. > > Thanks all! > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around - 1c.
-
Re: Your impression of the T27? Posted by: "calebjess@..." calebjess@... ? Sun Nov?11,?2007 11:34?am (PST) I also think that $15K is a bit high for a boat that needs to be re-powered.? I would knock $5K off the price for that alone.? That
said, the price might reflect certain improvements and gear that a PO had done to the boat.? The best points of sailing on a T27 are generally off the wind (beam, broad, close reaches).? When racing against other fin keeled boats we find that we cannot head up at quite as high an angle.? There can be some weather helm when close hauled which can be compensated for by using the centerboard. ? With the nearly full keel shaped hull the T27 holds its course quite well and is not likely to get rounded up.? One reason the T27 might be ideal for the Chesapeake and Fla. Keys is the shoal draft of this boat.? Drawing only about 3'6" with the board completely up you can get across some skinny water.? Fully extended the centerboard draws about 6' and is a convenient depth alarm. Every boat is a compromise and I am happy with mine.? Your mileage may vary. Caleb T27 #328 Odalisque, 1967 From: iupdike < iupdike@yahoo.com> To: T27Owners@yahoogroups.comSent: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 8:58 pm Subject: [T27Owners] Your impression of the T27? Hi group, I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my budget but I've never sailed one and need your advice. What are its best point(s)of sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be sailing on the Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann diesel probably needs to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The broker is asking 15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the questionable engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 needs. I'll get a marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth the cost. Thanks all! Yahoo! Groups Links ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Email and AIM finally
together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - - 1d.
-
Re: Your impression of the T27? Sun Nov?11,?2007 8:16?pm (PST)
15K is very high, especially if you think the engine
is no good. The T27 is an outstanding boat, you
will
love it. However, I wouldn't offer anything more than
$8k judging from how you described the boat.
Don't forget, the used boat market is flooded with . .
.. used boats. Ask for $5-$6K off if the engine needs
to be replace and go from there.
Good luck.
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Re: Your impression of the T27?
The 65 or so 1978 and 1979 Tartan 27-2s were significantly improved
over the 650 earlier T27s as far as interior livability. (The hulls
and rigging of both models are identical). Here's what Practical Boat
Buying has to say about both models:
"¡the Tartan 27 strikes us as having most of what we would look for in
an older small cruising boat from the standpoint of ruggedness,
appearance, function and equity. They may seem costly but we suspect
that even Tartan 27s built in the 1960s will be around far longer than
a lot of cheaper boats 10 or 15 years younger. And we like the last
version of the 27, the one with the higher topsides, lower cabin
profile, and, to our mind, more comfortable interior layout. These are
classic used boats of their type."
Before we bought our 1978 Tartan 27-2, we looked at quite a few Tartan
27s and were put off by their "cozy" i.e. small interiors. When we
finally found a 27-2, with its much roomier interior, we were sold. So
I'd say, if you're planning on extended cruising, the 27-2 with its
better headroom and fold-up table, is definitely worth considering,
and probably paying for. If you're going to day-sail, with only the
occasional overnight, a less expensive pre-1978 Tartan 27 will do just
fine.
By the way, there was a very nice 27-2 for sale in Connecticut or
Massachusetts a couple of years ago, reduced to $24,000(!) I don't if
it ever sold or not.
Jack Wyman
1978 Tartan 27-2
Hull 667
Seakindly (for now)
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--- In T27Owners@..., "iupdike" <iupdike@...> wrote:
Hi group,
I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my budget but I've
never sailed one and need your advice. What are its best point(s)of
sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be sailing on the
Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann diesel probably needs
to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The broker is asking
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the questionable
engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 needs. I'll get a
marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth the cost.
Thanks all!
|
Re: Your impression of the T27?
I¡¯m not sure why you say the diesel is bad.?
Small diesel engines rarely see significant usage.? In my case I have a Volvo
that was ¡°dead¡± according to the broker, PO, and local mechanico (Mexican
shadetree mechanic).? In all actuality a volvo certified mechanic told me
it was doom and gloom central.? I read a book that suggested that small
diesels frequently gum up when neglected for months or years.? I
determined that if I was already looking at a new engine I might as well burn
out the starter.? Sure enough after cycling through 30 seconds on, 15 seconds
off the engine began to fire, and finally cranked.? That was 2 years
ago.? So much for ¡°dead.¡±
?
Okay, so a 9hp engine won¡¯t push me at hull
speed.? But so what, it¡¯s a sailboat.? A 9HP engine will cover
me.
?
I think 15K is on the high side.? However, if the teak
is in A+ shape (not painted), the topsides and deck are sound and not in need
of paint, the bottom is sound and not in need of paint, it has AC, good
batteries, etc¡. then maybe.? I¡¯d also add roller furling
headsail and bimini to that list.? Each of these things costs money.?
The headsail will set you back $2500+ for a new sail and roller furling.?
Standing rigging is $1000.? A bimini is another $1000, installed.?
Having a yard do your deck paint can easily cost $15K.? An AC, scrounged
at the resale shop and self-installed, will set you back a nice $1000, but
frankly in the sub-tropical south¡ it¡¯s priceless.?
?
Painting a deck is an exercise in hate.? I¡¯m
doing mine now¡. I can assure you I hate it.? I hate doing it myself
slightly less than the astronomical prices I was quoted.? I hate that I¡¯ll
have to do it again in 5 years.? I hate that the paint is special and
nobody really knows much about it.? I hate that it¡¯s a big scam
designed to liberate my money.
?
In particular, you want to make sure your surveyor knows
more about Tartan then how to spell it.? The weak spots on the boat are
the through hulls, shaft log (where it exits the boat), and the centerboard
pivot point and cable attachment point.? You should have ball valves, not
gate valves.? The through hulls were originally glassed in bronze
nipples.? Bad bad.? The centerboard has a way of simply wearing
out.? Usually you lose it before you find out.? They are $1000 to
replace.? It does sail tolerably well without it provided you don¡¯t
try to point.? Even with the CB it didn¡¯t really point that
fantastic.? You also want to look at your chainplates and specifically in
the closet and head where they attach.? They have a nasty habit of rotting
out? You¡¯ll also want to check that the fuel tank is the right
kind.? Last but not least, check the marine sanitation system, or
head.? See where the tank is, is the toilet functional?? Is there
more then 3 gallons of capacity.? Is it done right?? You practically
cannot discharge unless you have an electrisan, and even then you sometimes can¡¯t.?
The T-27 is small and you don¡¯t have a lot of places to install tankage
for the toilet.
?
Where the T-27 really shines is that it is a heavy, stable,
safe boat.? I would pick a T-27 over a Hunter 27 any day of the week if I
have to deal with large waves.? If there is a smidgen of a chance of being
rolled over, I¡¯ll take my T-27.? The boats were designed by Sparkman
& Stephens in NYC.? Look them up, it¡¯s a hell of a
pedigree.? They were designed to the CCA ruleset.? CCA boats are
about as stable as it gets.? If you somehow managed to flip a T-27 upside
down it would stay there on average less than 15 seconds before it violently
and quickly corrected itself.? There are two other major rule sets, I don¡¯t
recall the names, but I do recall that one of them is quite content upside
down, and the other will mosey around in a few minutes.? Sail magazine did
an article earlier this year on the different rule sets.
?
As a day sailor, and short cruise boat, it¡¯s
ideal.? It¡¯s more boat and less floating condo.? By today¡¯s
standard¡¯s it¡¯s Spartan.? However, nearly everyone says hi,
says what a nice boat it is, and compliments a well maintained Tartan.?
The same can¡¯t be said for other designs.? I¡¯ve never once
been sneered at by another sailor in this boat.? I¡¯ve seen the
sneering and nasty remarks that are done to other old boats.? The construction
quality is generally first class +.? They were hand built by
craftsman.? Price wise they were the Rolls Royce of their time.? I
have Hull #71, 1964.? It originally sold for $27K in 1964!? That¡¯s
a large sum.?
?
Brian
Greul
Texas
Shirt Company
713-802-0369
/ 713-861-6261 (fax)
Targeted,
Effective Promotions to help you grow your brand
|
Re: Your impression of the T27?
15K is very high, especially if you think the engine
is no good. The T27 is an outstanding boat, you will
love it. However, I wouldn't offer anything more than
$8k judging from how you described the boat.
Don't forget, the used boat market is flooded with . .
.. used boats. Ask for $5-$6K off if the engine needs
to be replace and go from there.
Good luck.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
|
Re: Your impression of the T27?
I also think that $15K is a bit high for a boat that needs to be re-powered.? I would knock $5K off the price for that alone.? That said, the price might reflect certain improvements and gear that a PO had done to the boat.?
The best points of sailing on a T27 are generally off the wind (beam, broad, close reaches).? When racing against other fin keeled boats we find that we cannot head up at quite as high an angle.? There can be some weather helm when close hauled which can be compensated for by using the centerboard.? With the nearly full keel shaped hull the T27 holds its course quite well and is not likely to get rounded up.?
One reason the T27 might be ideal for the Chesapeake and Fla. Keys is the shoal draft of this boat.? Drawing only about 3'6" with the board completely up you can get across some skinny water.? Fully extended the centerboard draws about 6' and is a convenient depth alarm.
Every boat is a compromise and I am happy with mine.? Your mileage may vary.
Caleb
T27 #328 Odalisque, 1967
From: iupdike
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 8:58 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] Your impression of the T27?
Hi group,
I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my budget but I've
never sailed one and need your advice. What are its best point(s)of
sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be sailing on the
Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann diesel probably needs
to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The broker is asking
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the questionable
engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 needs. I'll get a
marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth the cost.
Thanks all!
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Re: Your impression of the T27?
I agree, $15K can buy you a lot more boat than
27ft. in today's used boat market...some old Bristols and or Pearsons in the 29
to 32 foot range?can be had for this much...but buyer beware as to the
condition of these...maybe the T27 in perfect shape is what you'd be better off
with.
?
Good luck, enjoy the journey.
?
Pete Stark
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:47
PM
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Your impression
of the T27?
I love my 74 T 27 but in my opinion $15K is a little
on the high side
for a 1978. Of course a T27 in
really good shape could certainly be worth
that much
or more so there is a judgment call here. What I am
saying is
that 1978 is fairly old and for that money
You may find a more modern
design (technology and
computer designed hulls have come a long way . (I
am
an engineer)
As I write this I feel disloyal to my classic but
It
is my honest opinion which is what you are asking for.
Perhaps
asking this same question outside the T27
world may give you another
unbiased opinion.
am
--- iupdike <iupdike@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> I'm seriously considering a 1978
T27. It fits my
> budget but I've
> never sailed one and need
your advice. What are its
> best point(s)of
> sailing, windward
ability, roundup, etc? I'll be
> sailing on the
> Chesapeake Bay
and Florida Keys. The Farymann
> diesel probably needs
> to be
replaced, is there a better replacement? The
> broker is asking
>
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the
> questionable
> engine and some interior varnish is all the T27
> needs. I'll
get a
> marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth
>
the cost.
>
> Thanks all!
>
>
__________________________________________________
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You Yahoo!?
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|
Re: Your impression of the T27?
I love my 74 T 27 but in my opinion $15K is a little on the high side for a 1978. Of course a T27 in really good shape could certainly be worth that much or more so there is a judgment call here. What I am saying is that 1978 is fairly old and for that money You may find a more modern design (technology and computer designed hulls have come a long way . (I am an engineer) As I write this I feel disloyal to my classic but It is my honest opinion which is what you are asking for. Perhaps asking this same question outside the T27 world may give you another unbiased opinion. am --- iupdike <iupdike@...> wrote: Hi group,
I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my
budget but I've
never sailed one and need your advice. What are its
best point(s)of
sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be
sailing on the
Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann
diesel probably needs
to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The
broker is asking
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the
questionable
engine and some interior varnish is all the T27
needs. I'll get a
marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth
the cost.
Thanks all!
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
|
Re: Your impression of the T27?
To me the T27 is worth every penny if not more.
?
You might save some money staying with Farymann.? If you are
going to switch, consider Beta Marine, which is a marinized Kubota engine. I
have a Universal M3-20 onboard my T27 which is also a Kubota and I love it. The
best of it is that you can go to a Kubota tractor dealer and pay less than half
for spare parts.
?
Matthias
SV Carpe Diem
1970 T27 #484
Green Cove Springs FL
?
From:
T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] On Behalf Of iupdike
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 20:59
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: [T27Owners] Your impression of the T27?
?
Hi group,
I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my budget but I've
never sailed one and need your advice. What are its best point(s)of
sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be sailing on the
Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann diesel probably needs
to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The broker is asking
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the questionable
engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 needs. I'll get a
marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth the cost.
Thanks all!
|
Your impression of the T27?
Hi group,
I'm seriously considering a 1978 T27. It fits my budget but I've
never sailed one and need your advice. What are its best point(s)of
sailing, windward ability, roundup, etc? I'll be sailing on the
Chesapeake Bay and Florida Keys. The Farymann diesel probably needs
to be replaced, is there a better replacement? The broker is asking
15,000 for it - it's in really good shape, just the questionable
engine and some interior varnish is all the T27 needs. I'll get a
marine survey but want to make sure the T27 is worth the cost.
Thanks all!
|
I think it should say 1x19 for shrouds and stays and 7x19 for
lifelines.
?
From:
T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] On Behalf Of calebjess@...
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 19:26
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] SPREADER WIDTH.
?
Hi,
I suggest you take a look at a page in the Files section of this yahoo group
called information.htm? There is a good amount of other info stored there
as well.
It does not specify a width for the spreaders but I bet you are looking for the
length as well as possibly the diameter of the spreader material which I won't
know until I pull my mast again.? Perhaps someone else knows the specific
dimensions of the spreaders.? Somewhere on information.htm it does specify
the dimensions of the mast and you may want to measure and compare to your
current mast (it might be the original).
As for standing rigging wire sizes, that info is there also but I will paste it
here:
All
wire is 7 x 19 stainless
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lower
Shrouds-------- 7/32"
Upper
Shrouds-------- 3/16"
Forestay?------------?
?3/16"
Backstay??------------
3/16"
Lifelines???-------------??9/32"
including vinyl 3/16" wire
Genoa
Tracks?--------- 1"
Mainsheet
traveler??----?7/8??? many have up graded to
1"
Spreaders?-------------?7?
degrees above Horizontal
?--------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck
with your rebuild.? These are great old boats if put together well.
Caleb Davison
#328, Odalisque, 1967
?
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: daiksan
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 2:42 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] SPREADER WIDTH.
HEY ALL,
I'M REBUILDING A T-27 #156 ,STILL.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE WIDTH OF THE SPREADERS IS?? I THINK THIS RIG
HAS A DIFFERENT MAST.? ITS 3X6 OVAL. SOUND RITE?
ALSO, HE HAS CHANGED THE WIRE SIZE ON THE LOWER SHROUDS? TO 3/16.
ORIGINAL SPEC CALLS FOR 7/32. THE WHOLE STANDING RIG IS GOOFY WITH
DIFFEREENT SIZE PINS TO LARGER HOLES AND SO ON.
I ALSO HAD A RIGGER TELL ME THAT I SHOULD HAVE 7/32 WIRE ON THE INTIRE
STANDING RIG!?
THANKS MICHAEL SV PLANE JANE...OR PATINA...OR TRABAJABA.? HAVNT
DECIDED THAT YET.
?
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Spreader length is usually the distance between upper chain
plate and mast.
?
From:
T27Owners@... [mailto:T27Owners@...] On Behalf Of daiksan
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 14:42
To: T27Owners@...
Subject: [T27Owners] SPREADER WIDTH.
?
HEY ALL,
I'M REBUILDING A T-27 #156 ,STILL.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE WIDTH OF THE SPREADERS IS? I THINK THIS RIG
HAS A DIFFERENT MAST. ITS 3X6 OVAL. SOUND RITE?
ALSO, HE HAS CHANGED THE WIRE SIZE ON THE LOWER SHROUDS TO 3/16.
ORIGINAL SPEC CALLS FOR 7/32. THE WHOLE STANDING RIG IS GOOFY WITH
DIFFEREENT SIZE PINS TO LARGER HOLES AND SO ON.
I ALSO HAD A RIGGER TELL ME THAT I SHOULD HAVE 7/32 WIRE ON THE INTIRE
STANDING RIG!?
THANKS MICHAEL SV PLANE JANE...OR PATINA...OR TRABAJABA. HAVNT
DECIDED THAT YET.
|
Hi,
I suggest you take a look at a page in the Files section of this yahoo group called information.htm? There is a good amount of other info stored there as well.
It does not specify a width for the spreaders but I bet you are looking for the length as well as possibly the diameter of the spreader material which I won't know until I pull my mast again.? Perhaps someone else knows the specific dimensions of the spreaders.? Somewhere on information.htm it does specify the dimensions of the mast and you may want to measure and compare to your current mast (it might be the original).
As for standing rigging wire sizes, that info is there also but I will paste it here:
All wire is 7 x 19 stainless
------------------------------------------------------------------
?Standing Rigging
?
Lower Shrouds-------- 7/32"
Upper Shrouds-------- 3/16"
Forestay?------------? ?3/16"
Backstay??------------ 3/16"
Lifelines???-------------??9/32"
including vinyl 3/16" wire
Genoa Tracks?--------- 1"
Mainsheet traveler??----?7/8???
many have up graded to 1"
Spreaders?-------------?7? degrees
above Horizontal
?--------------------------------------------------------------------
Good luck with your rebuild.? These are great old boats if put together well.
Caleb Davison
#328, Odalisque, 1967
-----Original Message-----
From: daiksan
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 2:42 pm
Subject: [T27Owners] SPREADER WIDTH.
HEY ALL,
I'M REBUILDING A T-27 #156 ,STILL.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE WIDTH OF THE SPREADERS IS? I THINK THIS RIG
HAS A DIFFERENT MAST. ITS 3X6 OVAL. SOUND RITE?
ALSO, HE HAS CHANGED THE WIRE SIZE ON THE LOWER SHROUDS TO 3/16.
ORIGINAL SPEC CALLS FOR 7/32. THE WHOLE STANDING RIG IS GOOFY WITH
DIFFEREENT SIZE PINS TO LARGER HOLES AND SO ON.
I ALSO HAD A RIGGER TELL ME THAT I SHOULD HAVE 7/32 WIRE ON THE INTIRE
STANDING RIG!?
THANKS MICHAEL SV PLANE JANE...OR PATINA...OR TRABAJABA. HAVNT
DECIDED THAT YET.
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|
HEY ALL,
I'M REBUILDING A T-27 #156 ,STILL.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE WIDTH OF THE SPREADERS IS? I THINK THIS RIG
HAS A DIFFERENT MAST. ITS 3X6 OVAL. SOUND RITE?
ALSO, HE HAS CHANGED THE WIRE SIZE ON THE LOWER SHROUDS TO 3/16.
ORIGINAL SPEC CALLS FOR 7/32. THE WHOLE STANDING RIG IS GOOFY WITH
DIFFEREENT SIZE PINS TO LARGER HOLES AND SO ON.
I ALSO HAD A RIGGER TELL ME THAT I SHOULD HAVE 7/32 WIRE ON THE INTIRE
STANDING RIG!?
THANKS MICHAEL SV PLANE JANE...OR PATINA...OR TRABAJABA. HAVNT
DECIDED THAT YET.
|
Good morning. Some of you may remember me as the owner of T27 249
Skywalker. I sold her last year - still have regrets. My C&C 34
has been a work in progress.
I kept the feathering prop, hoping to use it on my new boat. Both
boat were driven by an A 4, but the C&C has a 2:1 reduction gear, so
I can't use it.
It is a Variprop 12 x 8 for a one inch shaft. I used it one
season. It fits beautifully in the aperature. I called Variprop.
They are selling for $1900 new. They recommended I list it for
$1100. If you have any questions, give them a call. The tech
support is great with this company.
Any of you racing will be shocked at the change. I had great success
racing, both around the buoys and ocean racing. Under power, she
pushes in all sorts of weather.
Let me know if anyone is interested.
Thanks, Chris
|
Re: Boom position on a close reach
Thanks to all who are contributing with their experiences and thoughts. It is great to have this type of discussions. Others who are listening (reading) please join in, I could use all the help I can get. I agree with you that we can not bend our mast much, our standing rigging is not setup for that. As far as rake I read in the handbook that the boat was nominally designed with about 11 inches of rake for most wind conditions to a minimum of 0" for about 20 mph. If it warms up in the next few days I am going out to try a few things like not using the vang upwind and pulling a little harder on the outhaul and the halyards to flatten the main and move the draft forward. thangs again armando --- calebjess@... wrote:
We do not have a boom vang set up (yet) which is why
we tend to reef in winds 18+ kts.? Our main is quite
old but full battened and with a decently set reef
we are much more comfortable.? You can keep the
genny full or furl it in to match the reefed main,
which I prefer.? We only have a turnbuckle on the
aft stay as when we replaced our roller furling the
Furlex unit was installed without any adjustment to
the fore stay tension.? We probably have about a
foot or so of sag at the leading edge of the jib
when under load and will be replacing the aft
turnbuckle so we can tighten it up a bit more.
In terms of mast rake (aft mast rake that is) I do
not think that you want any for a T27.? I also own a
19' Lightning which is currently set up with a lot
of aft mast rake (presumably for light air
sailing).? The mast on the Lightning also has an aft
stay tensioning system which will induce some bend
and therefore twist into the sail for higher winds.?
The mast on our T27 will not bend much, if at all.?
Since the Lightning is a pure bred racing boat it
has all kinds of sail trim adjustments that are not
always available on the T27.? The Lightning can go a
bit faster than the T27 if tuned correctly in the
right wind.
I would guess that the weather helm force on our T27
is in the 30 - 50# range when at its worst.? When
this is the case we always first play with the
centerboard.? On downwind tacks when racing we
usually bring the board up to reduce drag but if it
is too far up the boat will tend to yaw and pitch
more, causing the helmsman to have to over
compensate.? In this case more (lower) board is
called for.? On upwind legs we generally like the
board at about a 45+ degree angle that helps move
the center of effort astern which helps to reduce
the weather helm.
Another control to consider with all of this is the
jib fairleads.? In high winds the blocks should be
moved as far aft as possible to help pull the entire
sail flatter yet allow for the maximum 'slot'
between the jib and main.? This allows for some
twist in the upper part of the jib as well.? In
lighter winds the blocks should be moved forward to
help create more belly in the jib and tension on the
leech.?
I am still learning about all this stuff so your
mileage may vary.? There have also been many books
written on sail trim but only you know how you sail
your own boat.
All the best.
Caleb
#328, Odalisque, 1967
From: Armando Morell <morell_21114@...>
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Re: Boom position on a
close reach
By head stay sag I mean that while sailing I have
gone
forward and looked up the head stay to asses how
much
it sags or deviates from a line. I estimate that it
deviates about 12 inches at its max.
I do have a turnbuckle on both stays so I could
change
the tension if I wanted to, however I do not want to
over do it. Which is why I wanted to measure it.
As far as the specs I have the manual and one of the
alternate methods suggested, involves tightening by
hand and then putting 5 more turns on the
turnbuckles.
I also need to check the mast rake, if it is to far
back I assume I could also have the excess weather
helm problem.
Can somebody estimate the maximum weather helm force
force on the tiller. 10 lb, 30lb, 50 lb. what is
your best guess at max tiller force when is blowing
hard say 20 mph.
I have gone home after a long session with sore arms
and I am questioning if this is normal.
armando
hull 555 Magothy river/Chesapeake bay
--- Greg Van Pelt <greg.vanpelt@...>
wrote:
3) As far as the rig tuning I will like to be
able
to
measure the stays tension. I do have some sag on
the
head stay but I am not sure how much is acceptable.
any thoughts here. As Caleb mentioned, rig tune is achieved by use of a
No. 90 or PT 2
Loos gauge. My recollection is that base rig tuning
specs are in the
Tartan 27 Owner's Manual published by the Chesapeake
Bay Tartan
Sailing Club. I don't have access to my copy at
present, but I'll be
glad to check and post the recommended rig tuning.
I am somewhat curious regarding your statement about
headstay sag. Do
you have a backstay adjuster, and have you tried
tightening the
backstay tension, which would also flatten the main?
__________________________________________________
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Re: Boom position on a close reach
We do not have a boom vang set up (yet) which is why we tend to reef in winds 18+ kts.? Our main is quite old but full battened and with a decently set reef we are much more comfortable.? You can keep the genny full or furl it in to match the reefed main, which I prefer.? We only have a turnbuckle on the aft stay as when we replaced our roller furling the Furlex unit was installed without any adjustment to the fore stay tension.? We probably have about a foot or so of sag at the leading edge of the jib when under load and will be replacing the aft turnbuckle so we can tighten it up a bit more.
In terms of mast rake (aft mast rake that is) I do not think that you want any for a T27.? I also own a 19' Lightning which is currently set up with a lot of aft mast rake (presumably for light air sailing).? The mast on the Lightning also has an aft stay tensioning system which will induce some bend and therefore twist into the sail for higher winds.? The mast on our T27 will not bend much, if at all.? Since the Lightning is a pure bred racing boat it has all kinds of sail trim adjustments that are not always available on the T27.? The Lightning can go a bit faster than the T27 if tuned correctly in the right wind.
I would guess that the weather helm force on our T27 is in the 30 - 50# range when at its worst.? When this is the case we always first play with the centerboard.? On downwind tacks when racing we usually bring the board up to reduce drag but if it is too far up the boat will tend to yaw and pitch more, causing the helmsman to have to over compensate.? In this case more (lower) board is called for.? On upwind legs we generally like the board at about a 45+ degree angle that helps move the center of effort astern which helps to reduce the weather helm.
Another control to consider with all of this is the jib fairleads.? In high winds the blocks should be moved as far aft as possible to help pull the entire sail flatter yet allow for the maximum 'slot' between the jib and main.? This allows for some twist in the upper part of the jib as well.? In lighter winds the blocks should be moved forward to help create more belly in the jib and tension on the leech.?
I am still learning about all this stuff so your mileage may vary.? There have also been many books written on sail trim but only you know how you sail your own boat.
All the best.
Caleb
#328, Odalisque, 1967
From: Armando Morell
To: T27Owners@...
Sent: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: [T27Owners] Re: Boom position on a close reach
By head stay sag I mean that while sailing I have gone
forward and looked up the head stay to asses how much
it sags or deviates from a line. I estimate that it
deviates about 12 inches at its max.
I do have a turnbuckle on both stays so I could change
the tension if I wanted to, however I do not want to
over do it. Which is why I wanted to measure it.
As far as the specs I have the manual and one of the
alternate methods suggested, involves tightening by
hand and then putting 5 more turns on the turnbuckles.
I also need to check the mast rake, if it is to far
back I assume I could also have the excess weather
helm problem.
Can somebody estimate the maximum weather helm force
force on the tiller. 10 lb, 30lb, 50 lb. what is
your best guess at max tiller force when is blowing
hard say 20 mph.
I have gone home after a long session with sore arms
and I am questioning if this is normal.
armando
hull 555 Magothy river/Chesapeake bay
--- Greg Van Pelt <greg.vanpelt@...> wrote:
> > 3) As far as the rig tuning I will like to be able
> to
> > measure the stays tension. I do have some sag on
> the
> > head stay but I am not sure how much is
> acceptable.
> > any thoughts here.
>
> As Caleb mentioned, rig tune is achieved by use of a
> No. 90 or PT 2
> Loos gauge. My recollection is that base rig tuning
> specs are in the
> Tartan 27 Owner's Manual published by the Chesapeake
> Bay Tartan
> Sailing Club. I don't have access to my copy at
> present, but I'll be
> glad to check and post the recommended rig tuning.
>
> I am somewhat curious regarding your statement about
> headstay sag. Do
> you have a backstay adjuster, and have you tried
> tightening the
> backstay tension, which would also flatten the main?
>
>
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Re: Boom position on a close reach
By head stay sag I mean that while sailing I have gone forward and looked up the head stay to asses how much it sags or deviates from a line. I estimate that it deviates about 12 inches at its max. I do have a turnbuckle on both stays so I could change the tension if I wanted to, however I do not want to over do it. Which is why I wanted to measure it. As far as the specs I have the manual and one of the alternate methods suggested, involves tightening by hand and then putting 5 more turns on the turnbuckles. I also need to check the mast rake, if it is to far back I assume I could also have the excess weather helm problem. Can somebody estimate the maximum weather helm force force on the tiller. 10 lb, 30lb, 50 lb. what is your best guess at max tiller force when is blowing hard say 20 mph. I have gone home after a long session with sore arms and I am questioning if this is normal. armando hull 555 Magothy river/Chesapeake bay --- Greg Van Pelt <greg.vanpelt@...> wrote: 3) As far as the rig tuning I will like to be able to
measure the stays tension. I do have some sag on the
head stay but I am not sure how much is acceptable.
any thoughts here. As Caleb mentioned, rig tune is achieved by use of a
No. 90 or PT 2
Loos gauge. My recollection is that base rig tuning
specs are in the
Tartan 27 Owner's Manual published by the Chesapeake
Bay Tartan
Sailing Club. I don't have access to my copy at
present, but I'll be
glad to check and post the recommended rig tuning.
I am somewhat curious regarding your statement about
headstay sag. Do
you have a backstay adjuster, and have you tried
tightening the
backstay tension, which would also flatten the main?
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
|
Re: Boom position on a close reach
3) As far as the rig tuning I will like to be able to
measure the stays tension. I do have some sag on the
head stay but I am not sure how much is acceptable.
any thoughts here. As Caleb mentioned, rig tune is achieved by use of a No. 90 or PT 2 Loos gauge. My recollection is that base rig tuning specs are in the Tartan 27 Owner's Manual published by the Chesapeake Bay Tartan Sailing Club. I don't have access to my copy at present, but I'll be glad to check and post the recommended rig tuning. I am somewhat curious regarding your statement about headstay sag. Do you have a backstay adjuster, and have you tried tightening the backstay tension, which would also flatten the main?
|
