|
Hello, I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
|
Hi Jeff ? Levelling is easy. Just buy these from Amazon and screw to the inside corners. Sorry the link is to Amazon UK – but I suspect the same item is available in the USA. ?
?
? Cheers ? Will Johnson ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Reynolds
Sent: 16 August 2022 03:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Wooden Art Boards/Canvas for Modules? Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in. So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired. Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each. Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules). We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event. Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
|
I have used similar wood panels (from Wal-Mart and Michael's) in the past, going back almost 20 years. The gap between modules is noticeable but they are good for an introduction to T-Trak. Plywood or foam board can easily be added for the backdrop.
A wood block, an insert nut, and a 1/4" bolt make an inexpensive leveling system. Brackets for levelers similar to what Will Johnson mentioned are available from Lee Valley in North America
and a 1/4" bolt can be used for the adjustments, but the brackets might be difficult to attach to the thin plywood of the wood box, and they cost almost as much as the box. The plus side is they will add weight to the otherwise light module!
The wooden box is a good idea for an introduction to the hobby. The kids, and some adults, we see at shows are very enthusiastic and this is a way to keep their interest.
Do you plan to hand out module "kits", or sell pieces, or direct interested people in the right direction?
Geoff
|
Hi Jeff,
Great to hear from you and I hope you and yours are doing well!
I really like these boxes and I have not seen them before... but I will have to check one out. I also like the leveling brackets, but as Geoff pointed out, they can get expensive if you are trying to make this a budget build. You can easily glue a T nut into a scrap of foam and be in business for a quick?first module for a new modeler.
On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 10:43 PM Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
|
Hello old mate, Looks like a nice alternative for a Single but I need a Double and they don't seem to have anything suitable for me. The Standards tell me that in Old Measurements a Double should be:
? Double Straight Module
618mm W x 210-330mm D x 70mm H
(24-5/16” W x 8? -13” D x 2?” H)??
Such is my luck. But I do like your idea of a cheap and just about ready-made module. Maybe I could screw two of these 12" together and come up with a Double (or close to it) that way? Maybe put them together with a 5/16th shim between the inside edges??
I have the extruded Foam and Styrene foam to do all the construction that I need. Just don't feel up to the woodworking (had a minor?Stroke Friday AM and am not too trusting of me around circular saws and woodworking tools at the moment.)
Cheers, Ian
On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:13, Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
|
Yes, these sound great, and I will explore them.? Glueing or bolting two together with a suitable shim should?be fine!? An glued-on 5 mm shim on the singles would also make them more compatible
David
On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 11:22 AM Ian < ilox11@...> wrote: Hello old mate, Looks like a nice alternative for a Single but I need a Double and they don't seem to have anything suitable for me. The Standards tell me that in Old Measurements a Double should be:
? Double Straight Module
618mm W x 210-330mm D x 70mm H
(24-5/16” W x 8? -13” D x 2?” H)??
Such is my luck. But I do like your idea of a cheap and just about ready-made module. Maybe I could screw two of these 12" together and come up with a Double (or close to it) that way? Maybe put them together with a 5/16th shim between the inside edges??
I have the extruded Foam and Styrene foam to do all the construction that I need. Just don't feel up to the woodworking (had a minor?Stroke Friday AM and am not too trusting of me around circular saws and woodworking tools at the moment.)
Cheers, Ian
On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:13, Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
--
-- Ian
|
Ian,
Great to hear from you, been awhile! Sorry to hear about the health issues, hope you get over this fast here. Yes the woodshop is not a good place to be when brain is not at 100%. 50 years on a table saw now and still have all parts of all 10 digits, but just takes a split second oops. I finally spent the money when I upgraded the table saw about 10 years back (and I procrastinated 10 years doing that) and go a saws stop as best not to push my luck!
Here in the states we have the art boards in 24” X 6”, 9”, and 12” that are 1.5” tall. I noticed on amazon.au they didn’t carry anywhere near the variety of wooden canvases that amazon us does. Might look at the bigger art supply places down there for them. Only issue is you will have a bit larger gap with the 24”.?
You could just bolt 2 12x12 together with a strip of 1/4” ply or moulding in between then and then you could just iron on a strip of wood veneer if you want the front nice and clean and hide the joint and filler/extender. I use iron on cherry veneer on all my module faces as it hides all seams and Brad holes as well as gives a very nice finished edge for the module with some tung oil and bees wax. Looks so nice the eye loves it for the frame of a module compared to painting the edges.?
I don’t want to count how many modules in how many different shapes and formats I’ve made for myself and the club over the years. I’m sort of to the point if these look decent and the gap works ok to maybe separate scenes a tad more I may move to using these myself!?
I just ordered 4x of 12x9 ones that were $15 to experiment with here. If they work out I’ll order some 12x12 or see if any of the local art stores have them (sadly we are left only with one very high end art supply chain in the area, the old discount one went to online only…).?
Hope this can be an option to those w.o access to a woodshop, tight on funds, and/of just don’t want to futz with the module building.
Another option down this like is they also sell just 12x12 panels of mdf or birch ply 5mm or so, which gets over the biggest woodcutting hurtle. Frame could be then made from 1.5” X 0.25” moulding that can easily be cut by hand with a simple $20 miter box and saw and glued up.?
Cheers,
Jeff
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On Aug 16, 2022, at 2:23 PM, Ian <ilox11@...> wrote:
? Hello old mate, Looks like a nice alternative for a Single but I need a Double and they don't seem to have anything suitable for me. The Standards tell me that in Old Measurements a Double should be:
? Double Straight Module
618mm W x 210-330mm D x 70mm H
(24-5/16” W x 8? -13” D x 2?” H)??
Such is my luck. But I do like your idea of a cheap and just about ready-made module. Maybe I could screw two of these 12" together and come up with a Double (or close to it) that way? Maybe put them together with a 5/16th shim between the inside edges??
I have the extruded Foam and Styrene foam to do all the construction that I need. Just don't feel up to the woodworking (had a minor?Stroke Friday AM and am not too trusting of me around circular saws and woodworking tools at the moment.)
Cheers, Ian On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:13, Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
-- -- Ian
|
Ian.? Cut suitable sizes of Evergreen sheets- 2 each 3.2 mm thick and 1 each 1.5mm would give you a piece 7.9mm thick.? Put this between 2 each 12"square frames and you have your double.? 24 5/16" x 12".
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian <ilox11@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2022 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Wooden Art Boards/Canvas for Modules
Hello old mate, Looks like a nice alternative for a Single but I need a Double and they don't seem to have anything suitable for me. The Standards tell me that in Old Measurements a Double should be:
? Double Straight Module
618mm W x 210-330mm D x 70mm H
(24-5/16” W x 8? -13” D x 2?” H)??
Such is my luck. But I do like your idea of a cheap and just about ready-made module. Maybe I could screw two of these 12" together and come up with a Double (or close to it) that way? Maybe put them together with a 5/16th shim between the inside edges??
I have the extruded Foam and Styrene foam to do all the construction that I need. Just don't feel up to the woodworking (had a minor?Stroke Friday AM and am not too trusting of me around circular saws and woodworking tools at the moment.)
Cheers, Ian
On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:13, Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
?
So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
?
Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
?
Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
?
We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
?
Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
?
?
?
Cheers,
?
Jeff
--
-- Ian
|
Greetings from Nashville Tennessee…. ? Our group, Tennessee T-Trak Associates, has six modules that were constructed from Luan.? This is the lightweight wood-based material used for flush doors.? It splinters easily; however, if you are careful, it works great.? We reinforced the joints with 1x1 wood strips and used 2x2’s in each corner to accommodate the T-Nuts for the adjustable “feet”.? These are extremely light weight and seem to be very sturdy.? Only time will tell! ? The same concept can be used by substituting foam board for the top surface.? You may need to glue a few cross strips of 1 x 1’s under the foam for extra support and stability.? ? One of our corner modules constructed this way took BEST OF SHOW at the held in Nashville in June.? ? Cheers, Ed.. ? Ed Minnich 615.416.2892 ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of David Harris Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 3:21 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Wooden Art Boards/Canvas for Modules ? Yes, these sound great, and I will explore them.? Glueing or bolting two together with a suitable shim should?be fine!? An glued-on 5 mm shim on the singles would also make them more compatible ? On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 11:22 AM Ian <ilox11@...> wrote: Hello old mate, Looks like a nice alternative for a Single but I need a Double and they don't seem to have anything suitable for me. The Standards tell me that in Old Measurements a Double should be:
? Double Straight Module
618mm W x 210-330mm D x 70mm H
(24-5/16” W x 8? -13” D x 2?” H)??
Such is my luck. But I do like your idea of a cheap and just about ready-made module. Maybe I could screw two of these 12" together and come up with a Double (or close to it) that way? Maybe put them together with a 5/16th shim between the inside edges??
I have the extruded Foam and Styrene foam to do all the construction that I need. Just don't feel up to the woodworking (had a minor?Stroke Friday AM and am not too trusting of me around circular saws and woodworking tools at the moment.)
Cheers, Ian ? On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:13, Jeffrey Reynolds <Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in. So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired. Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each. Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules). We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event. Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
--
|
These are 2" deep, too bad we can't get the 12 1/8.? It would be great not to have the gap.
https://www.rexart.com/cradled-wood-panels-extra-deep.html
Steve
|
Steve,
Great to hear from you, it’s been a while! I need to get over to Timonium shows more, usually just been doing teardown there.
Yeah all the leveling units are super overkill. What we need is some sort of toy one! I’ve actually been meaning to look at smaller diameter bolts and inserts as an option as well. Even if it were a kit that you could send for just the odd bits, having things smaller and lighter might work. A smaller insert might also go into the thin frames on these canvases.
I’m on the quest here for something simple, available and for the total newbie that doesn’t have any formulaR laying around or maybe not even a hammer! I just end up talking to so many folks that’s fine with diving into trying scenery stuff and even scratch building buildings but doing carpentry or mechanical sort of stops their enthusiasm. It’s strange where the crafting background can abruptly stop for many.
Using 3 bolts has been wonderful these days as well, so much easier to get the over all track level quick with the front bolts and then just fiddle with one bolt in the back center for the front back level. Nice as the back ones are always the hardest to reach and sort of confuses which way to spin the bolt being upside down and backwards… I find myself always spinning front bolts the right way most all the time but sort of 50/50 doing the back bolts. Also just a 25% savings on leveling parts. We have had no issues with big modules with heavier buildings on them with any tipping action, tripos is way wide enough to handle anything but a brick on a back corner.
I’m also experimenting with making a simpler version of the Kato mini diorama modules and ones that may be a tad larger so that a small structure could work on it. Kato kind of pared it down to the absolute minimum on scenery space to where you actually need some scenery design experience under your belt to dream up that compact of scenes. But cool thing here is these are tiny and a $10 kit could have base, track and some scenery materials to get folks going and once hooked move up to Ttrak. I hope to have a loop for the fall shows to start seeing folks reaction to them.i want to get out of the talking mode and get something in folks hands.
丑迟迟辫蝉://飞飞飞.办补迟辞-诲颈辞谤补尘补办颈迟.肠辞尘/复製-远くへ行きたい-2
Hope we can meet up here at a show this year, been too long!
Cheers
Jeff
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On Aug 16, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Steve Jackson <steve.jackson@...> wrote:
? Hi Jeff,
Great to hear from you and I hope you and yours are doing well!
I really like these boxes and I have not seen them before... but I will have to check one out. I also like the leveling brackets, but as Geoff pointed out, they can get expensive if you are trying to make this a budget build. You can easily glue a T nut into a scrap of foam and be in business for a quick?first module for a new modeler. On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 10:43 PM Jeffrey Reynolds < Cteno4@...> wrote: Hello,
I just thought I would throw out this idea since commercial sources for modules are slim these days, availability is spotty, and they are not cheap due to rising ply prices and shipping costs. Out club (Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC) has been doing Ttrak for a long time and in the past I’ve whacked out modules for members in my shop or they have purchased the various lasercut kits. But at shows we talk up Ttrak a lot to the public as a way to get started and one drawback has always been just the price of a single module from $25-50 (depending on brand). Add track some building and scenery materials and it starts adding up to get someone to jump in.
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So I’ve been looking around for something that is less expensive and more readily available and potentially locally. This lead me to wooden canvas panels, these are basically a Ttrak module design used to paint onto. They make 12”x12” and 12”x9” versions that are 1.5” tall which are just about perfect for a single module. It’s 1/8” shy on the width, but really that only adds a small amount to the module gaps (they would work out to about 5mm (3/16”) gaps between these types of modules), but that can be compensated with some gap filling scenery strips or just having a gap which isn’t horrible to separate different scenes on adjoining modules. The 1.5” height is fine, just need the appropriate length bolts to bring it up to standard running heights. 1” extruded foam board could be glued on top to create depression scenery and bring the module height to close to the usual 2.75” if desired.
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Nice thing is these are prebuilt, sturdy, and very standardized. Cost is around $6-14 each.
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Only thing that needs to be added are inserts for leveling. This could be done as simple as made from foamcore squares layered up with glue to make more the old style corner blocks and then drill a hole on it and epoxy a T nut into it. Or small square of ply to put the insert into and just glue in front two corners and back center off the back side (we’ve found the 3 legs to be way easier to level modules).
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We have been doing lots of more general public events with Ttrak and lots of folks get interested in this a an interesting way into the hobby. Many love the crafting/diorama aspect of Ttrak. Also younger folks usually have a lot less room to work with so the idea of small modules that don’t that don’t take up a lot of storage space and they can work on it on the kitchen table. The meetup aspect also interest many as a simple group event.
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Just curious what folks think and if they have any ideas to make this more workable on the leveling inserts or other ideas for simple modules for newbies that is easy and cheap.
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Cheers,
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Jeff
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Ed,
Thanks, those are great and I’m sure will hold up forever unless you back over them!
the real luan was my go to for a few decades for all sorts of woodworking projects as well as all our club sectional layouts and Ttrak. It’s hardness is sort of a soft hardwood, but cut well and real luan does not splinter much. Nice thing is it’s also very warp resistant (why used in underlaminent). Sadly starting about 6 or 7 years ago most big box stores replaced their 3/16” luan with basically a sand ply that does splinter a lot and warps quite a bit. I’ve still been able to find real luan at some of the contractor supply places around here with some calling around.
Yeah that’s what I was suggesting earlier that 1.5” X 0.25” moulding at big box stores is perfect as cuts easily with a cheapo miter box and had saw. About $4 for 12x12 box. You can also get art boards that are like 1/4” birch ply pretty cheap already sawn and sanded to 12x12 to frame with some moulding like this.
The art canvases with the frames are directed for the folks that asking to saw a piece of wood or glue a frame just turns them off at he get go. My desire is to get them going on the diorama aspect as that’s what they locked onto being interested in and then once hooked they hopefully can see they can expand and maybe make modules or even if they don’t at least the are creating modules and doing the aspect of the hobby they like.
Even the laser cut modules have given some frustration at some point to our club members (who are usually very mechanically oriented) and cost and availability has been an issue with these lately.
Thanks for the input!
Cheers
Jeff
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On Aug 16, 2022, at 7:34 PM, Ed Minnich <ebminn@...> wrote:
Greetings from Nashville Tennessee…. ? Our group, Tennessee T-Trak Associates, has six modules that were constructed from Luan.? This is the lightweight wood-based material used for flush doors.? It splinters easily; however, if you are careful, it works great.? We reinforced the joints with 1x1 wood strips and used 2x2’s in each corner to accommodate the T-Nuts for the adjustable “feet”.? These are extremely light weight and seem to be very sturdy.? Only time will tell! ? The same concept can be used by substituting foam board for the top surface.? You may need to glue a few cross strips of 1 x 1’s under the foam for extra support and stability.? ? One of our corner modules constructed this way took BEST OF SHOW at the held in Nashville in June.? ? Cheers, Ed..
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Geoff (I almost ended up with that spelling!),
Cool glad to hear these have been working well for you, I figured someone must be using these. Nice to hear that the gap is not very noticeable. I actually think the little gap may be an interesting way to separate scenes on modules a tad. It’s funny we have Japanese themed modules that usually have a lot going on (bonus of modeling trains scenes in japan) and at times folks don’t realize they are all separate modules even though we can have some wind scene changes between modules (another bonus of modeling Japanese scenes as scenes can change really abruptly and not the same zoning regs we have here in the states). It’s kind of funny sometimes when I point this out and folks stand back and say oh cool I didn’t see that!
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah over the years for various layout and furniture making I’ve looked at most all the leveling system out there and most all are way overkill for a Ttrak module and end up adding significantly to the cost. The old insert in block really is the simplest, but requires a block and a hole drilled in it an either whack at T-nut in (I’ve found many not handy to actually be very timid on this process) or screw in an insert (which takes a tad of practice to do well and best done with the proper insert tool). But screwing into foam block of some sort with some glue seems to be the most newbie safe. What is actually needed could be a simple very lightweight threaded plastic leg and insert housing as we need a tiny fraction of the strength if a steel bolt and insert, but I’ve never found anything out there like that.
Yes was contemplating making a few kits we could sell at cost to interested newbies that we run across. Few bucks and perhaps a mist for the leveling bits, track and screws so folks could buy their own box and then easily get the other bits and even if shipped be cheaper to ship. Module is the killer to ship!
Cheers
Jeff
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On Aug 16, 2022, at 10:13 AM, Geoff Dunn via groups.io <geoffdunnsoccer@...> wrote:
?I have used similar wood panels (from Wal-Mart and Michael's) in the past, going back almost 20 years. The gap between modules is noticeable but they are good for an introduction to T-Trak. Plywood or foam board can easily be added for the backdrop.
A wood block, an insert nut, and a 1/4" bolt make an inexpensive leveling system. Brackets for levelers similar to what Will Johnson mentioned are available from Lee Valley in North America
and a 1/4" bolt can be used for the adjustments, but the brackets might be difficult to attach to the thin plywood of the wood box, and they cost almost as much as the box. The plus side is they will add weight to the otherwise light module!
The wooden box is a good idea for an introduction to the hobby. The kids, and some adults, we see at shows are very enthusiastic and this is a way to keep their interest.
Do you plan to hand out module "kits", or sell pieces, or direct interested people in the right direction?
Geoff
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Hi David,
5mm is a bit too much as these 12” boxes are only really 3mm smaller than the standard module width.
Not sure the gap will really matter that much as it may actually help differentiate between scenes on modules. Functionality it’s no issue and actually better to have some slop as we have had issues of a few modules being a mm or so over standard or ends not being perfectly square vertically and making mating of modules a bit tight.
Cheers
Jeff
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On Aug 16, 2022, at 4:21 PM, David Harris <dpharris@...> wrote:
Yes, these sound great, and I will explore them. Glueing or bolting two together with a suitable shim should be fine! An glued-on 5 mm shim on the singles would also make them more compatible
David
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And, if nothing else, having a second, same size module to place on the opposite side of the layout will bring balance back into the world, err, layout.
On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:45 AM, Jeffrey Reynolds <Cteno4@...> wrote: Hi David, 5mm is a bit too much as these 12” boxes are only really 3mm smaller than the standard module width. Not sure the gap will really matter that much as it may actually help differentiate between scenes on modules. Functionality it’s no issue and actually better to have some slop as we have had issues of a few modules being a mm or so over standard or ends not being perfectly square vertically and making mating of modules a bit tight. Cheers Jeff > On Aug 16, 2022, at 4:21 PM, David Harris < dpharris@...> wrote: > > Yes, these sound great, and I will explore them.? Glueing or bolting two together with a suitable shim should be fine!? An glued-on 5 mm shim on the singles would also make them more compatible > > David
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No issue with layout balance with these, track would still still the usual 310mm length it’s just the wooden canvas base that is 3mm skinnier than the “standard” module width. You just end up with like a 5mm gap between 12” wooden canvas module bases instead of 2mm with standard 12 1/8” bases or 4mm gap between a wooden canvas base and a standard base.
I did look at some of the other wooden canvas sizes to see if novel narrower modules could be done (in a pair to go on both sides of a loop), but none lined up with any Kato track combinations.
Jeff
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On Aug 17, 2022, at 7:29 AM, Todd Blose via groups.io <bloseclan@...> wrote:
And, if nothing else, having a second, same size module to place on the opposite side of the layout will bring balance back into the world, err, layout.
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I can make some single modules and looking at corner ones also. hat other holes do you want/need other than the wire hole for the track?
These are made from 1/8 lite ply and weight under 12 oz. so light weight. Waiting on the new pricing on the plywood as goes up each order,
but looking like around 20 for a single without track and 30 with.
rich
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Jeff,
I like this idea a lot as a starting point. When I get a chance, I'll check out what's available at some local shops.
3mm packing strips down the sides and across the top at one end would be fairly easy for those who don't want the larger gap. That might look a bit ugly but the ends don't get seen when you join two modules together and paint it will make it hardly noticeable especially if black. The ugly join on the top gets covered with scenic material.
I have experimented a bit with just the one leg at the back. Mathematically, 3 points defines the plane so is all that is needed and best if the front legs are immediately below the centre of the tracks. My biggest concern was that it is a bit flimsy if anyone leans slightly on the back of the module, the 4 corner legs makes it more stable though nobody should lean on these at all.
If I knew then what I know now that I could have known then, I probably would have started modelling Japanese. Japanese scenery looks very impressive because busy, diverse scenery is typical of Japan but I hadn't yet been to Japan when I started modelling.
Regards, Dave Mc.
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Dave,
Thanks for the thoughts.
Actually design wise when things are different as they can be module to module (both module scene as well as face height, color, etc) a bit of separation helps for the eye. Pushing anything dissimilar butt up against each other can make the eye go search why things are dissimilar and become a distraction.
Been doing the single center back leg, even on double modules for years and no stability issues ever. No one ever leans on a module in our experience. If someone where to go that Rambo I expect there would be much ore issues with lateral displacement even with 4 legs. Really has been a lot simpler and easier using 3 legs and logically it makes a lot more sense in the leveling than 4.
Japanese scenes lend themselves perfectly to Ttrak. I talked with Lee about this a long time back and it was part of her inspiration at JAM that created Ttrak in her head! They were bringing ntrak to japan, but she quickly saw the Japanese scenes lended themselves so much better to small areas and the home space restrictions and transportation pointed to having to use smaller modules. Lee had a very, very good scene deign mind. I had such wonderful conversations with her in those early years. I miss that.
Cheers,
Jeff?
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On Aug 17, 2022, at 9:20 PM, Dave <db.mcmorran@...> wrote:
?Jeff,
I like this idea a lot as a starting point. When I get a chance, I'll check out what's available at some local shops.
3mm packing strips down the sides and across the top at one end would be fairly easy for those who don't want the larger gap. That might look a bit ugly but the ends don't get seen when you join two modules together and paint it will make it hardly noticeable especially if black. The ugly join on the top gets covered with scenic material.
I have experimented a bit with just the one leg at the back. Mathematically, 3 points defines the plane so is all that is needed and best if the front legs are immediately below the centre of the tracks. My biggest concern was that it is a bit flimsy if anyone leans slightly on the back of the module, the 4 corner legs makes it more stable though nobody should lean on these at all.
If I knew then what I know now that I could have known then, I probably would have started modelling Japanese. Japanese scenery looks very impressive because busy, diverse scenery is typical of Japan but I hadn't yet been to Japan when I started modelling.
Regards, Dave Mc.
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Rich,
Thanks, are you going to sell these commercially?
The holes I was talking about were holes in some sort of block for the leveling bolt threaded inserts.
My main thrust here is to find an alternative for newbies that is very very simple and inexpensive. Many of the newbies I talk with are very hesitant to having assemble much and cost is an issue to get started.
Jeff
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On Aug 17, 2022, at 6:26 PM, richard via groups.io <yenko_stinger65@...> wrote:
?I can make some single modules and looking at corner ones also. hat other holes do you want/need other than the wire hole for the track? These are made from 1/8 lite ply and weight under 12 oz. so light weight. Waiting on the new pricing on the plywood as goes up each order, but looking like around 20 for a single without track and 30 with. <top.jpg> <bottom.jpg> rich
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Steve Jackson
Ian