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What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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It depends on the situation. For straight modules, I use the Kato power track pieces (although the double track pieces aren't set up per T-Track standards, as I recall). For curved tracks, I use the terminal joiners because they work and it's easy. If I have a section of non-Kato track, then I'll solder to the rails, but coming out of the module, I still use the Kato wires and connectors, per the standard.
Geoff
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 01:57:11 PM EST, David Thompson <davidct1960@...> wrote:
What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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I know several folks who have tried to use the TAMIYA male and female connectors for T-TRAK. Unfortunately, although the designs seem to be identical they are not the same size (a minute difference) but the mismatch is just enough to make the TAMIYA connectors unavailable to us. The use of KATO wiring will not break the bank and avoids all confusion and mistakes when building T-TRAK modules. The use of Power Poles and the resultant wiring is a Recommended Practice but is outside of the T-TRAK Standards which require KATO wiring when modules are included in show layouts.
Although those who have used the TAMIYA connectors say "they work" I will not risk damaging conforming modules by forcing the use of TAMIYA connectors. Those modules are simply NOT connected to the power supply bus.
If you want to use your wire and crimpers create some heavy bus cables with Power Pole connectors for use in large layouts. But you will still need KATO wiring to connect the modules to the bus.
Check the T-TRAK Standards on NRail.org
Terry Moore
NRail Advisor
Talkin' T-TRAK
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of David Thompson Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 11:34 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector. Dave T
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I just use the Kato connectors. I usually use the Extension Cord (blue/white) and cut it in half so I can use either end for the plug I need. Sometimes I will find the Turnout Extension Cords (red/black) or AC Extension Cord (brown/white with green plugs) for cheap in a parts pile at a train show and will use those just the same. I just have to make?sure I get the blue/white matched up with the proper connectors on the other extension cords since the colors are different.
I don't believe there are any direct replacements for the plugs out there. Tamiya plugs are close, but not really close enough.
What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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Although I’ve used the double track 62mm straight pieces to power my modules in the past I have now switched to the powered rail joiners. To use the double track 62mm powered track the plug for the Yellow track is simply disassembled, the wires reversed and the plug reassembled thus creating the BWWB T-TRAK standard condition. To avoid confusion of the Red/Yellow tracks in corners and standard Steve Jackson junctions I do not wire them since they can be mounted both ways making the Red track Yellow and the Yellow track Red when connecting to the busses, reducing possible confusion. Not every module needs to be connected to the power bus. One in three will do. (Unfortunately many straight modules do not have power feeders) ? See NRail.org T-TRAK Resources Talkin’ T-TRAK ? Terry Moore NRail Advisor Talkin’ T-TRAK ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Geoff Dunn via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 2:08 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? It depends on the situation. For straight modules, I use the Kato power track pieces (although the double track pieces aren't set up per T-Track standards, as I recall). For curved tracks, I use the terminal joiners because they work and it's easy. If I have a section of non-Kato track, then I'll solder to the rails, but coming out of the module, I still use the Kato wires and connectors, per the standard.
Geoff On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 01:57:11 PM EST, David Thompson <davidct1960@...> wrote: What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector.
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Although I can’t confirm it, I’ve been told that the red/black cables are of smaller gauge than the blue/white ones. They look the same to me and I have used them to create BWWB/BWBW reverser cables for small layouts that do not use large power cables. I can’t speak for the other cables you mentioned. ? Bottom line – any modules with “creative” wiring need to be confirmed for BWWB standards compliance when submitted for inclusion in a show layout. ? Terry Moore NRail Advisor Talkin’ T-TRAK ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Jackson Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 2:25 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? I just use the Kato connectors. I usually use the Extension Cord (blue/white) and cut it in half so I can use either end for the plug I need. Sometimes I will find the Turnout Extension Cords (red/black) or AC Extension Cord (brown/white with green plugs) for cheap in a parts pile at a train show and will use those just the same. I just have to make?sure I get the blue/white matched up with the proper connectors on the other extension cords since the colors are different. I don't believe there are any direct replacements for the plugs out there. Tamiya plugs are close, but not really close enough. ? What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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I have the same problem at the club we use phono plugs and sockets, here in the UK most T-trak groups use phonos so we can all get together for running sessions.? Regards? Di
On 14 Nov 2023 16:34, David Thompson <DavidCT1960@...> wrote: What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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David,
FUNTRAK uses the Tamiya female plugs from Apex RC products #1547. We have had no issues with these. For track connections, I disassemble a regular Kato unijoiner and solder a feeder wire to the bottom of the metal joiner. Reassemble the unijoiner and install it wherever you need it. Again, no problems with this technique. YMMV! If you want more information on either of these practices, let me know and I'll expand the explanations. Good luck.
Brian F. King
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---------- Original Message ---------- From: "David Thompson" <DavidCT1960@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 11:34:17 -0500 What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector. Dave T
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Regardless of module format (T-TRAK, NTRAK, FreeMoN or ?? in any scale) different areas, groups, clubs have different “better” ideas that do not follow otherwise international standards meant for over all compatibility. Such is life. Enjoy what works for you and your fellow model railroaders. ? ??????????????????????????????? T ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Di Tape via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:39 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? I have the same problem at the club we use phono plugs and sockets, here in the UK most T-trak groups use phonos so we can all get together for running sessions.? ? On 14 Nov 2023 16:34, David Thompson <DavidCT1960@...> wrote: What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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I use the terminal joiners.? Can be used on both straight and corner modules.? Also except for a gifted corner that would be too hard to install them (would require damaging the scenery to install drops)? every module I have has power drops on both the inner and outer mains.? I have also installed drops on all of my private trackage too.? I would rather have the drops installed and not need them than need the drops and not have them.
Bill Belsher North Texas T-Trak Houston Area T-Trak Association
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 12:57:07 PM CST, David Thompson <davidct1960@...> wrote:
What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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We have used the MPI Maxx #2913 mini Tamiya plug kits for years and they are a perfect match for the Kato connections. We use them extensively and never had any problems or damage. Of course, one needs to take care when assembling them. Unfortunately, they are now listed as Out-of-Stock on their website, so hearing about the Apex product is good information. Thanks, Brian.
-bruce
Bruce G Alcock?| OK N-Rail?| 405-381-4314?| nytrr@...
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian King Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:22 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors David, FUNTRAK uses the Tamiya female plugs from Apex RC products #1547. We have had no issues with these. For track connections, I disassemble a regular Kato unijoiner and solder a feeder wire to the bottom of the metal joiner. Reassemble the unijoiner and install it wherever you need it. Again, no problems with this technique. YMMV! If you want more information on either of these practices, let me know and I'll expand the explanations. Good luck. Brian F. King ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "David Thompson" <DavidCT1960@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 11:34:17 -0500 What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector. Dave T
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Nielsen Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 12:54 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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Yes there are a lot of knock offs that just don’t work with Kato connectors. Our club has been able to source both tamiya and knockoffs that work fine with Kato, but each time we have gone looking the old source no longer there and we needed to verify new sources (small order to make sure it works before a bigger order). It’s a pain.
The big benefit on making your own is using larger gauge wire and fabricating to needs like a wiring buss. But for your own loops and just playing with others at shows then just getting Kato lines works fine.
One trick to minimize connector wire costs is to wire to the track on every module. You can easily do this slipping up to 20g wire under the copper connector in a unijoiner (this anyone can do with a small screwdriver and needle nose pliers) or cutting a slot under the rails through the plastic and soldering feeder wires onto the bottom of the track. I’ve like soldering to the underside of the track as you can use like 18 or 20g wire and a super strong and positive joint. I then dab a blob of epoxy over the joint and over the insulation to create a joint that will never break! Bit of overkill but quick and easy as over the couple decades we have used Unitrak we have broken many a feeder connection in various odd ways. Then the feeder wire I just wire into a little euro terminal strip under the module. Then you can just pop on a Kato plug wire into the terminal strip on the modules where needed. I put little crimp hexagonal terminal ends on the plug wire so wires are not crushed and broken by the terminal screws. This also helps not having to deal with loose wires under the module when not needed. We run 20’ loops with 3 or 4 feeders total onto our buss (18g wire on the buss). So you don’t have to have a ton of Kato connectors this way for the modules.
I’m going to move from the euro terminal blocks to the little lever lockdown connectors as those now are pretty cheap (under a buck) and no screwdriver, just a finger, is needed to attach a Kato (or whatever) plug wire to the module. Just lay out the modules as we like them, pop in Kato plug wires here it makes for even distribution and then connect up modules.?
Cheers,
Jeff
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On Nov 15, 2023, at 2:23?PM, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...> wrote:
Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T
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Terry, you must have Kato stock…
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The MPI plugs are “sold out” – that’s unfortunate.?
They may not be available in Canada.
Most wiring problems we’ve encountered are people thinking they need to go BWBW which isn’t not standard.
-bruce
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Terrence Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors
?
Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also,
new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring)
?
??????????????????????????????? T
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website
shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but
I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren’t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.??
Philip Taylor
drphilster@...
On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring)
?
??????????????????????????????? T
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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Philip, ? ??????????????? Terrance!!? Yes, I have an alias – TerrAnce or TerrEnce! ? ? ??????????????? You are absolutely right! Unfortunately, as seen in these postings, groups and clubs have a tendency to create their own ideas of standards which may work well in closed club layouts but have nothing to do with or are supported by T-TRAK standards. You have indeed defined the need for standards. ? ??????????????? In my case, you are “preaching to the choir”. I do not support nonstandards and believe new T-TRAKers should be advised of the standards. If they join a nonstandard club they can then be so advised. I have never seen an issue that created a $$$ issue. My costs are higher than anybody’s, for the most part. (NO, I did not win a lottery!) And, yes, I dealt with far more than my share of layout wiring issues! Been there, done that! ? ??????????????? Terry Moore ??????????????? NRail Advisor ??????????????? Talkin’ T-TRAK ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Philip Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 3:14 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren’t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.?? On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T ? ? There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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What went out of standard here in this discussion?
Jeff
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On Nov 15, 2023, at 3:55?PM, Philip Taylor <drphilster@...> wrote:
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Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren’t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.??
Philip Taylor
drphilster@...
On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I’ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don’t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don’t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I’ve encountered were with “custom” wiring)
?
??????????????????????????????? T
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax’s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don’t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can’t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don’t fit.
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There are a lot of responses here to sort through.?
Let me cut through to the bottom line: no matter how your modules are wired from the track, the end of the wires need to be connected to either a Kato 3-Way connector or a bus wire. My club uses Kato-compatible connectors from CMR Products (??) for our bus wire connectors which, according to CMR, come from the same source as Kato's connectors. They connect perfectly to the Kato wires.
Dave Ferrari Northern NJ N-TRAK
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Thank you all for this thread...
Today, as we are about to enter 2024: I consider the use of Kato 3 Ways as a near Shibboleth to an Operational Layout, in these modern times.
:)) Mark
Muddville, California.
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Steve Jackson
Di Tape
Philip Taylor
Mark Cartwright