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Power Pole housing stacking standard
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This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak modules at the club use buses with red and black housings stacked side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak standard, I think that arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the "right" end of a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and have to be remade.? And, I am not seeing any mechanical, electrical or logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
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Show quoted text
On Mar 1, 2025, at 6:19?PM, Steve Long via groups.io <steve.long4@...> wrote:
?This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak modules at the club use buses with red and black housings stacked side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak standard, I think that arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the "right" end of a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and have to be remade.? And, I am not seeing any mechanical, electrical or logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
https://nationalt-traklayout.com/
Thanks for getting back to me, Bruce.? But, I have seen that
link, and note that the connector housings are stacked vertically
( assuming that the hoods are considered the tops), so I am
thinking that is the standard.
I am mainly wondering WHY that is the standard, considering that
it makes the cable ends different from each other.
Steve
On 3/1/2025 7:56 PM, Bruce Arbo via
groups.io wrote:
|
|
?This is my first post to this group, after
looking through some of the archives. I expect my question
has already been discussed before, but I am not finding that
easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club,
and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak
modules at our club, which is my only experience so far with
Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak modules at the
club use buses with red and black housings stacked
side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be
plugged into either end of any other cable.? That seems
convenient to make and hard to screw-up during layout
assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak standard, I think that
arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to mess with
the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules
are not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to
run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to
follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What I
seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use blue
and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes the
"left" end different from the "right" end of a cable.? I can
do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done that
way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making
cables, so that a cable could accidentally be made with 2
left or 2 right ends, and have to be remade.? And, I am not
seeing any mechanical, electrical or logical benefit from
the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the
actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for
the vertical stacking configuration for the Power Pole
housings.
Steve Long
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
Hi Steve,
Actually the T-Trak connector configuration is identical to the NTrak set up which is vertical.? The accessory bus is side by side.? Here's a link to the NTrak harness configuration.? ?
Notice that one end is hood up and the other is hood down.? The harness will always be in phase with blue to blue and white to white.
Hope that helps..
Ed
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for getting back to me, Bruce.? But, I have seen that link, and note that the connector housings are stacked vertically ( assuming that the hoods are considered the tops), so I am thinking that is the standard.
I am mainly wondering WHY that is the standard, considering that it makes the cable ends different from each other.
Steve
On 3/1/2025 7:56 PM, Bruce Arbo via groups.io wrote:
|
|
?This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak modules at the club use buses with
red and black housings stacked side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak standard, I think that
arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the
"right" end of a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and have to be remade.? And, I am
not seeing any mechanical, electrical or logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
I have seen the N-Trak standards, too. So, T-Trak configuration
is just set up to be plug-compatible with N-Trak on the red and
yellow loops.
Still, it is not clear to me why the connectors would be
vertically stacked instead of horizontally stacked for N-Trak,
either.? It does force one end to always be towards the power
source.? But, what is the advantage of that?
Steve
On 3/1/2025 10:05 PM, Ed Minnich via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Steve,
Actually the T-Trak connector configuration is
identical to the NTrak set up which is vertical.? The accessory
bus is side by side.? Here's a link to the NTrak harness
configuration.? ?
Notice that one end is hood up and the other is
hood down.? The harness will always be in phase with blue to
blue and white to white.
Hope that helps..
Ed
Thanks for getting back to me, Bruce.? But, I have seen that
link, and note that the connector housings are stacked
vertically ( assuming that the hoods are considered the tops),
so I am thinking that is the standard.
I am mainly wondering WHY that is the standard, considering
that it makes the cable ends different from each other.
Steve
On 3/1/2025 7:56 PM, Bruce Arbo
via groups.io wrote:
|
|
?This is my first post to this group,
after looking through some of the archives. I expect my
question has already been discussed before, but I am not
finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts
are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our
club, and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old
N-Trak modules at our club, which is my only experience
so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak
modules at the club use buses with red and black
housings stacked side-by-side, which allows either end
of a cable to be plugged into either end of any other
cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard to
screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the
N-Trak standard, I think that arrangement is not
standard.? I am not going to mess with the N-Trak bus
practice at the club, because those modules are not
going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run
well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to
follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What
I seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use
blue and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes
the "left" end different from the "right" end of a
cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the
standard is done that way.? It seems like it is too easy
to goof when making cables, so that a cable could
accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and
have to be remade.? And, I am not seeing any mechanical,
electrical or logical benefit from the vertical stacking
compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the
actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is
for the vertical stacking configuration for the Power
Pole housings.
Steve Long
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
I'm guessing the rationale for the standard was vertical for track power and horizontal for accessories so they don't get crossed up.? In any case, this is the standard, so no problem as long as everyone complies.
Hope that helps,
Ed
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have seen the N-Trak standards, too. So, T-Trak configuration is just set up to be plug-compatible with N-Trak on the red and yellow loops.
Still, it is not clear to me why the connectors would be vertically stacked instead of horizontally stacked for N-Trak, either.? It does force one end to always be towards the power source.? But, what is the advantage of that?
Steve
On 3/1/2025 10:05 PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote:
Hi Steve,
Actually the T-Trak connector configuration is identical to the NTrak set up which is vertical.? The accessory bus is side by side.? Here's a link to the NTrak harness configuration.? ?
Notice that one end is hood up and the other is hood down.? The harness will always be in phase with blue to blue and white to white.
Hope that helps..
Ed
Thanks for getting back to me, Bruce.? But, I have seen that link, and note that the connector housings are stacked vertically ( assuming that the hoods are considered the tops), so I am thinking that is the standard.
I am mainly wondering WHY that is the standard, considering that it makes the cable ends different from each other.
Steve
On 3/1/2025 7:56 PM, Bruce Arbo via groups.io wrote:
|
|
?This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The N-Trak modules at the club use buses with
red and black housings stacked side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak standard, I think that
arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the
"right" end of a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and have to be remade.? And, I am
not seeing any mechanical, electrical or logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
The standard in the rest of the Southeast region, among the groups and individuals in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, who meet regularly to form larger combined T-TRAK layouts, is a 2 wire system (red and yellow kines) with a 4 powerpole cluster (red over black-yellow over ?black side-by-side, as shown in section 6.2.3 on page 8 of the official T-TRAK standards document.)
again, a male end (‘tongues’ down) and a female end (‘tongues’ down)
We have all built our bus to this same standard, so that setting up together at various shows is a breeze. We probably have, combined, about 300’’ of this standard T-TRAK bus, between all of us
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OK, I think I see the logic when dealing with 4 pole clusters
that combine 2 track loop circuits.? If the individual loop poles
were side-by side, they would be able to be plugged together
physically with the ends swapped, but that would swap which
circuit went to which loop.
I will probably do 2 single circuit buses for the small
display/development layout, which is limited in space to the end
modules and a double row of up to 4 single-wide equivalent
modules.? I'll use white over blue with colored tape at
appropriate places to distinguishing the circuits.? There will
probably be a lot of different people swapping modules in and out
and changing power sources, so I am trying to keep it visibly
obvious.
For that testing layout, there will only be one "bus" section per
circuit from the power source adapter to the modules, and I am
thinking that I will want to be able to power as many as 12
modules per bus, so that as many modules as people decide to test
can all be hooked up at once to ensure electrical compatibility.
When/if we get enough participants to set up meet layouts, I will
probably use the 4 pole bus standard to get them familiar with
what they would see in regional meets.
One other difference between the display/test layout and a meet
layout seems to be where the bus tap connections should be
located.? For the test layout, I am thinking they would be best
located in the trough between the 2 rows of straight modules, so
that it would be easy to remove and insert individual modules.?
But, I think that the meet layout strategy is to get the module
connections to the buses under the end modules. Is that correct?
Steve
On 3/1/2025 11:19 PM, Bruce Arbo via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The standard in the rest of the Southeast region, among the
groups and individuals in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, who meet
regularly to form larger combined T-TRAK layouts, is a 2 wire
system (red and yellow kines) with a 4 powerpole cluster (red
over black-yellow over ?black side-by-side, as shown in section
6.2.3 on page 8 of the official T-TRAK standards document.)
again, a male end (‘tongues’ down) and a female end
(‘tongues’ down)
We have all built our bus to this same standard, so that
setting up together at various shows is a breeze. We probably
have, combined, about 300’’ of this standard T-TRAK bus, between
all of us
|
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well. Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed. Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
|
On 3/2/25 04:43, Steve Long via groups.io wrote: Still, it is not clear to me why the connectors would be vertically stacked instead of horizontally stacked for N-Trak, either.? It does force one end to always be towards the power source.? But, what is the advantage of that? The main point of stacking them vertically is if you have modules that are designed to be flipped around, like oNeTrack or Freemo. For those you need the connectors vertically stacked to connect the correct rails. Heiko -- eMails verschlüsseln mit PGP - privacy is your right! Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung:
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Hello Steve,
At our club (North Raleigh Model Railroad Club) we use the Kato connectors as supplied with the track for the connections to the modules themselves. We then have bus wiring that have the vertically stacked white and blue PowerPole connectors. The bus wires
have the other side of the Kato connector on them. The bus wires are connected so that the BWWB standard is maintained. I assume you are speaking of the bus wiring for your questions.
A link to our standards is here:
Why should it matter how NRMRC does it? It doesn't really, but it works well for us, and since you are just starting your program it might give you an idea how to proceed. I would recommend that you coordinate with any clubs in your region though, so if you
are doing a show jointly with them everything connects correctly. (It should probably be noted that we are a DCC only club, which is how we can get away with connecting both red and yellow lines to a common bus.)
As far as the logic for the stacking, it had to be done some way to standardize and that's just the way the committee decided to do it. There is no electrical or mechanical advantage, it is strictly for standardization.
It should be noted that the NTRAK standard reverses the connections at each end so that you can't reverse the modules. As long as the modules are positioned correctly they should connect. The T-TRAK bus wiring is designed to do the same thing so that the phasing
is always correct (white to white and blue to blue), that way the bus wiring can't be reversed.
V/R
Larry P. Card
Franklinton NC
? ?_________
./___________\.
(]]]___o___[[[)
|\_o_______o_/|
|__|.......|__|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the
archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I
am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also
repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which
is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The
N-Trak modules at the club use buses with red and black housings stacked
side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into
either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard
to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak
standard, I think that arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to
mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are
not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the
standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for
the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked
VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the "right" end of
a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done
that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so
that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and
have to be remade.? And, I am not seeing any mechanical, electrical or
logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side
stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current
standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking
configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
|
John this is why we need to complete the standards document in our NMRA Modular Model Railroad Standards. We need to delineate the Standard (MS) and then in the MRP, Modular Recommended Practice, set the best
practices. Like you, the BBMRA Bus has the APP’s mounted Hood Up? and Vertical. The DC (12 v)Connections are Horizontal (side by side) Hood up.
?
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member
Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Larry via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 12:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard
?
At our club (North Raleigh Model Railroad Club) we use the Kato connectors as supplied with the track for the connections to the modules themselves. We then have bus wiring that
have the vertically stacked white and blue PowerPole connectors. The bus wires have the other side of the Kato connector on them. The bus wires are connected so that the BWWB standard is maintained. I assume you are speaking of the bus wiring for your questions.
A link to our standards is here:
Why should it matter how NRMRC does it? It doesn't really, but it works well for us, and since you are just starting your program it might give you an idea how to proceed. I
would recommend that you coordinate with any clubs in your region though, so if you are doing a show jointly with them everything connects correctly. (It should probably be noted that we are a DCC only club, which is how we can get away with connecting both
red and yellow lines to a common bus.)
As far as the logic for the stacking, it had to be done some way to standardize and that's just the way the committee decided to do it. There is no electrical or mechanical advantage,
it is strictly for standardization.
It should be noted that the NTRAK standard reverses the connections at each end so that you can't reverse the modules. As long as the modules are positioned correctly they should
connect. The T-TRAK bus wiring is designed to do the same thing so that the phasing is always correct (white to white and blue to blue), that way the bus wiring can't be reversed.
? ?_________
./___________\.
(]]]___o___[[[)
|\_o_______o_/|
|__|.......|__|
This is my first post to this group, after looking through some of the
archives. I expect my question has already been discussed before, but I
am not finding that easy to find.? So, links to previous posts are welcome.
I am trying to get a T-Trak program started at our club, and am also
repairing some bus wiring for some old N-Trak modules at our club, which
is my only experience so far with Anderson Power Pole connectors.? The
N-Trak modules at the club use buses with red and black housings stacked
side-by-side, which allows either end of a cable to be plugged into
either end of any other cable.? That seems convenient to make and hard
to screw-up during layout assembly.? But, looking at the N-Trak
standard, I think that arrangement is not standard.? I am not going to
mess with the N-Trak bus practice at the club, because those modules are
not going anywhere anymore, and I just want the loops to run well.
However, for the new T-Trak program, I am trying to follow the
standards, as best as I can find them.? What I seem to be finding for
the T-Trak standard is to use blue and white housings, stacked
VERTICALLY, which makes the "left" end different from the "right" end of
a cable.? I can do that, but I am wondering WHY the standard is done
that way.? It seems like it is too easy to goof when making cables, so
that a cable could accidentally be made with 2 left or 2 right ends, and
have to be remade.? And, I am not seeing any mechanical, electrical or
logical benefit from the vertical stacking compared to the side-by-side
stacking
So, my question for the group is whether this is the actual current
standard, and, if so, what the benefit is for the vertical stacking
configuration for the Power Pole housings.
Steve Long
|
Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged
in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Ed
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Hi Ed: ? The 12vdc bus is the white bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. ? Regards, ? John Wallis ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ed Minnich via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 1:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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Ed,????????
Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member
Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Ed Minnich via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 1:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard
?
Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged
in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Hi John, ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. ? Cheers, ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John M Wallis via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 2:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? Hi Ed: ? The 12vdc bus is the white bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. ? Regards, ? John Wallis ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
The variance of colors does raise some concern especially as there could be nasty consequences in hooking up the wrong pairs. . Since there are at least 10 different colors with Anderson Powerpole then it might be good to consider that there are no duplicate colors used in any pairs. ?It may even be worth considering using an alternate plug type for AC to keep it from being cross connected by accident. ?
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On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:20?PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io <ebminn@...> wrote:
Hi John, ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. ? Cheers, <image001.png> Ed Minnich 615.416.2892 ? ? Hi Ed: ? The 12vdc bus is the?white?bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. ? Regards, ? John Wallis ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The?
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main?
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect?
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from?
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were?
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering?
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely?
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged?
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be?
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by?
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus?
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC?
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most?
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.?
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.?
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next?
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug?
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--?
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
--
Philip Taylor
Virginia Central NRail
|
|
|
Thanks, Philip, for your observation, ? In playing around with some PP connectors in my supply box, I noticed you can have one connector “hood down or hood up” and the other connector “sideways”.? I realize that such a configuration requires T-Trak Standard approval, but it’s worth a thought and certainly easy to modify.? I didn’t realize the possibility of accidentally hooking up a dc to ac until I had a module requiring both types of current.? ? On another note, last year I configured one of our DC busses backwards and blew all the semiconductors in two of my modules.? Fortunately, the other guys were not affected since they only had LEDs on their modules.? I now protect all DC module feeds with a heavy diode on the positive lead and pass them out to any member who has a DC requirement.? ? Guess I’m sensitive to this because many of my modules contain Arduinos and other electronic devices. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Philip Taylor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 2:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? The variance of colors does raise some concern especially as there could be nasty consequences in hooking up the wrong pairs. . Since there are at least 10 different colors with Anderson Powerpole then it might be good to consider that there are no duplicate colors used in any pairs. ?It may even be worth considering using an alternate plug type for AC to keep it from being cross connected by accident. ? Philip Taylor
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:20?PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io <ebminn@...> wrote: ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. The 12vdc bus is the?white?bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The?
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main?
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect?
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from?
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were?
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering?
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely?
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged?
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be?
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by?
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus?
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC?
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most?
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.?
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.?
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next?
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug?
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--?
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
?
--
Philip Taylor
Virginia Central NRail
|
But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC
receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors
with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug
combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle .
Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood
vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical
configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong
thing fit.
Steve Long
On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via
groups.io wrote:
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Show quoted text
Ed,????????
Our DCC bus
is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black
(vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal,
Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs
use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice
President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR
President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer
Member
Ph- (C )
850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
?
Would be nice to take another look at
brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way
as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module
that has both DC and AC power requirements and the
connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would
damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck
converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be
configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by
side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent
accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think
about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard
for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different
from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will
only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track
bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main
bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC
may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be
trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from
being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power
supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines
including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a
stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could
also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are
optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus
cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power
bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to
connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a
cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus
software.
|
Larry
Andy Zimmerman
Philip Taylor