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Re: Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables
The quickest and easiest way to deal with a U shaped layout is to butt the tables together with the middle table end up against the left leg table (for example) and the right leg table end butted up against the side of the middle table. I suspect you are talking about a standard T-TRAK loop layout on single tables (not double wide tables and large corners and junctions. The mismatch of measurements you mention are why you never put the middle table/s between the end tables. IF there are 2 tables lengthwise between the end tables they can be gapped in the middle with the modules spanning the gap to get a useful length.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Geoff Dunn via groups.io Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 3:52 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables I'm curious how others deal with a U-shaped layout, with an 8' table between the two side tables. An 8' table is 96" long. 8X of standard length modules is 97.64". Having the 8' table between the two side tables means the layout on the 8' section will be 1.64 inches too long, and will push the vertical parts of the U off the side tables, or it means that the tables will have a 1.64 inch gap between them, making the underlying table somewhat less sturdy. One option is a pair of special, slightly short modules. Has anyone dealt with this issue in another way? Thanks for any suggestions. Geoff Dunn, Albany NY NTrak
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Re: Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables
Further to my previous note . . .
This note doesn't allow me to insert pictures so please see the attached files . They say a picture is worth 1000 words . . .
T
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Geoff Dunn via groups.io Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 3:52 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables I'm curious how others deal with a U-shaped layout, with an 8' table between the two side tables. An 8' table is 96" long. 8X of standard length modules is 97.64". Having the 8' table between the two side tables means the layout on the 8' section will be 1.64 inches too long, and will push the vertical parts of the U off the side tables, or it means that the tables will have a 1.64 inch gap between them, making the underlying table somewhat less sturdy. One option is a pair of special, slightly short modules. Has anyone dealt with this issue in another way? Thanks for any suggestions. Geoff Dunn, Albany NY NTrak
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Re: Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables
Hi Geoff,
If I understand your description, you are basically talking about a layout that looks like a capital "I" and concerns about the central table being too short (whether it is 6' or 8').
The problem is more complicated than what you describe simply because to transition onto the central module you need inside corners or junctions. So, I used that transition module to fly from the top and bottom tables onto that central table. I leave an appropriate gap under that transition module to make the math work. It is generally a very small gap (<2") so it isn't a problem.
On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 3:52?PM Geoff Dunn via <geoffdunnsoccer= [email protected]> wrote: I'm curious how others deal with a U-shaped layout, with an 8' table between the two side tables.? An 8' table is 96" long.? 8X of standard length modules is 97.64".? Having the 8' table between the two side tables means the layout on the 8' section will be 1.64 inches too long, and will push the vertical parts of the U off the side tables, or it means that the tables will have a 1.64 inch gap between them, making the underlying table somewhat less sturdy.
One option is a pair of special, slightly short modules.? Has anyone dealt with this issue in another way?
Thanks for any suggestions.? Geoff Dunn, Albany NY NTrak
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Fitting 8X modules on 8 foot tables
I'm curious how others deal with a U-shaped layout, with an 8' table between the two side tables. An 8' table is 96" long. 8X of standard length modules is 97.64". Having the 8' table between the two side tables means the layout on the 8' section will be 1.64 inches too long, and will push the vertical parts of the U off the side tables, or it means that the tables will have a 1.64 inch gap between them, making the underlying table somewhat less sturdy.
One option is a pair of special, slightly short modules. Has anyone dealt with this issue in another way?
Thanks for any suggestions. Geoff Dunn, Albany NY NTrak
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Here in the UK,the Power Pole connectors are nearly impossible to get hold of and when you can get them they are very expensive so most groups here? use RCA phono plugs and sockets as they are readily available and very reasonably priced, members of my group have joined up 3 other groups and had no trouble connecting our modules as we all follow the accepted wiring specifications??
Diane Tape?
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That¡¯s why an actual standard for T-TRAK layout bus was developed a number of years ago. ?Most all of the individuals/clubs here in the Southeast region (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, NC, VA) Use the powerpole connected standard T-TRAK bus as described in the official standards PDF document.? We set up, and operate, combined 100+ module layouts quite often, with no issues. All of our groups have committed to build to standard (electrically), and it has paid off. |
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On Nov 19, 2023, at 2:51?PM, Mark Cartwright via groups.io <marcdecapri@...> wrote:
?Thank you all for this thread...
Today, as we are about to enter 2024: I consider the use of Kato 3 Ways as a near Shibboleth to an Operational Layout, in these modern times.
:)) Mark
Muddville, California.
--
Respectfully,
Bruce M. Arbo
CATT - Coastal Alabama T-TRAK
The National T-TRAK Layout
https://nationalt-traklayout.com/
Thank you all for this thread...
Today, as we are about to enter 2024: I consider the use of Kato 3 Ways as a near Shibboleth to an Operational Layout, in these modern times.
:)) Mark
Muddville, California.
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There are a lot of responses here to sort through.?
Let me cut through to the bottom line: no matter how your modules are wired from the track, the end of the wires need to be connected to either a Kato 3-Way connector or a bus wire. My club uses Kato-compatible connectors from CMR Products (??) for our bus wire connectors which, according to CMR, come from the same source as Kato's connectors. They connect perfectly to the Kato wires.
Dave Ferrari Northern NJ N-TRAK
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What went out of standard here in this discussion?
Jeff
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On Nov 15, 2023, at 3:55?PM, Philip Taylor <drphilster@...> wrote:
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Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren¡¯t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.??
Philip Taylor
drphilster@...
On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring)
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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Philip, ? ??????????????? Terrance!!? Yes, I have an alias ¨C TerrAnce or TerrEnce! ? ? ??????????????? You are absolutely right! Unfortunately, as seen in these postings, groups and clubs have a tendency to create their own ideas of standards which may work well in closed club layouts but have nothing to do with or are supported by T-TRAK standards. You have indeed defined the need for standards. ? ??????????????? In my case, you are ¡°preaching to the choir¡±. I do not support nonstandards and believe new T-TRAKers should be advised of the standards. If they join a nonstandard club they can then be so advised. I have never seen an issue that created a $$$ issue. My costs are higher than anybody¡¯s, for the most part. (NO, I did not win a lottery!) And, yes, I dealt with far more than my share of layout wiring issues! Been there, done that! ? ??????????????? Terry Moore ??????????????? NRail Advisor ??????????????? Talkin¡¯ T-TRAK ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Philip Taylor Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 3:14 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren¡¯t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.?? On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T ? ? There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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Terrance
The purpose of the standard is to have one way so things always work first time.??A meet director can and should put any non-conforming modules in a TBD cue to test to see if they work according to the standard fi time allows otherwise they are just displays.??I have done too many meetings with modules where the module owner bent or broke the rules and wasted lots of time and fun for everyone else to save a few bucks or because they knew better.??They may have a better idea but that is why standards need to be reviewed every 5,7 or 10 years which is a totally different issue than this thread.??
Stick to the standard and if the parts aren¡¯t available anymore not just out of stock then that needs to be brought to the standards board or committee for whichever standard needs adjustment.??
Philip Taylor
drphilster@...
On Nov 15, 2023 at 2:22?PM -0500, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...>, wrote:
Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring)
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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Terry, you must have Kato stock¡
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The MPI plugs are ¡°sold out¡± ¨C that¡¯s unfortunate.?
They may not be available in Canada.
Most wiring problems we¡¯ve encountered are people thinking they need to go BWBW which isn¡¯t not standard.
-bruce
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Terrence Moore
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors
?
Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also,
new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring)
?
??????????????????????????????? T
?
?
There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website
shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but
I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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Yes there are a lot of knock offs that just don¡¯t work with Kato connectors. Our club has been able to source both tamiya and knockoffs that work fine with Kato, but each time we have gone looking the old source no longer there and we needed to verify new sources (small order to make sure it works before a bigger order). It¡¯s a pain.
The big benefit on making your own is using larger gauge wire and fabricating to needs like a wiring buss. But for your own loops and just playing with others at shows then just getting Kato lines works fine.
One trick to minimize connector wire costs is to wire to the track on every module. You can easily do this slipping up to 20g wire under the copper connector in a unijoiner (this anyone can do with a small screwdriver and needle nose pliers) or cutting a slot under the rails through the plastic and soldering feeder wires onto the bottom of the track. I¡¯ve like soldering to the underside of the track as you can use like 18 or 20g wire and a super strong and positive joint. I then dab a blob of epoxy over the joint and over the insulation to create a joint that will never break! Bit of overkill but quick and easy as over the couple decades we have used Unitrak we have broken many a feeder connection in various odd ways. Then the feeder wire I just wire into a little euro terminal strip under the module. Then you can just pop on a Kato plug wire into the terminal strip on the modules where needed. I put little crimp hexagonal terminal ends on the plug wire so wires are not crushed and broken by the terminal screws. This also helps not having to deal with loose wires under the module when not needed. We run 20¡¯ loops with 3 or 4 feeders total onto our buss (18g wire on the buss). So you don¡¯t have to have a ton of Kato connectors this way for the modules.
I¡¯m going to move from the euro terminal blocks to the little lever lockdown connectors as those now are pretty cheap (under a buck) and no screwdriver, just a finger, is needed to attach a Kato (or whatever) plug wire to the module. Just lay out the modules as we like them, pop in Kato plug wires here it makes for even distribution and then connect up modules.?
Cheers,
Jeff
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On Nov 15, 2023, at 2:23?PM, Terrence Moore <terry.moore@...> wrote:
Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T
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Thank you Bill. I¡¯ve been unable to access the 2 products mentioned in the previous posts for research. For me, bottom line, get the KATO products and be done with it. If $$$ is the issue don¡¯t throw money away trying to save money. Also, new T-TRAKers don¡¯t need the burden of creating the wiring they may not be prepared to do. (As an aside, most wiring problems I¡¯ve encountered were with ¡°custom¡± wiring) ? ??????????????????????????????? T ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Nielsen Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2023 12:54 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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There are many incompatible knockoff of these plugs, probably because they are so widely found in cheap R/C toys. Avoid the ones that are made ?of an opaque white or a mint green plastic, these do not fit with the Kato plugs. Ajax¡¯s website shows the Ajax plugs to be the light green color plastic, so I would not trust them, since I already have several packs of these which don¡¯t fit. The plugs that fit are a sort of translucent milky white in color, I have some MPI plugs that seem to work, but I can¡¯t find them, and I understand that MPI is sold out. Be ready to throw them out if you buy anything other than actual Kato plugs, the knockoffs just don¡¯t fit.
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We have used the MPI Maxx #2913 mini Tamiya plug kits for years and they are a perfect match for the Kato connections. We use them extensively and never had any problems or damage. Of course, one needs to take care when assembling them. Unfortunately, they are now listed as Out-of-Stock on their website, so hearing about the Apex product is good information. Thanks, Brian.
-bruce
Bruce G Alcock?| OK N-Rail?| 405-381-4314?| nytrr@...
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian King Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 9:22 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors David, FUNTRAK uses the Tamiya female plugs from Apex RC products #1547. We have had no issues with these. For track connections, I disassemble a regular Kato unijoiner and solder a feeder wire to the bottom of the metal joiner. Reassemble the unijoiner and install it wherever you need it. Again, no problems with this technique. YMMV! If you want more information on either of these practices, let me know and I'll expand the explanations. Good luck. Brian F. King ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "David Thompson" <DavidCT1960@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 11:34:17 -0500 What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector. Dave T
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I use the terminal joiners.? Can be used on both straight and corner modules.? Also except for a gifted corner that would be too hard to install them (would require damaging the scenery to install drops)? every module I have has power drops on both the inner and outer mains.? I have also installed drops on all of my private trackage too.? I would rather have the drops installed and not need them than need the drops and not have them.
Bill Belsher North Texas T-Trak Houston Area T-Trak Association
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 12:57:07 PM CST, David Thompson <davidct1960@...> wrote:
What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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Regardless of module format (T-TRAK, NTRAK, FreeMoN or ?? in any scale) different areas, groups, clubs have different ¡°better¡± ideas that do not follow otherwise international standards meant for over all compatibility. Such is life. Enjoy what works for you and your fellow model railroaders. ? ??????????????????????????????? T ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Di Tape via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 5:39 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors ? I have the same problem at the club we use phono plugs and sockets, here in the UK most T-trak groups use phonos so we can all get together for running sessions.? ? On 14 Nov 2023 16:34, David Thompson <DavidCT1960@...> wrote: What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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David,
FUNTRAK uses the Tamiya female plugs from Apex RC products #1547. We have had no issues with these. For track connections, I disassemble a regular Kato unijoiner and solder a feeder wire to the bottom of the metal joiner. Reassemble the unijoiner and install it wherever you need it. Again, no problems with this technique. YMMV! If you want more information on either of these practices, let me know and I'll expand the explanations. Good luck.
Brian F. King
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---------- Original Message ---------- From: "David Thompson" <DavidCT1960@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [T-TrakGlobal] Tamiya connectors Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 11:34:17 -0500 What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit into a standard KATO connector. Dave T
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I have the same problem at the club we use phono plugs and sockets, here in the UK most T-trak groups use phonos so we can all get together for running sessions.? Regards? Di
On 14 Nov 2023 16:34, David Thompson <DavidCT1960@...> wrote: What do T Trakers use for Track power connectors. The KATO Terminal
joiner seems wasteful since I have wire and crimpers. I tried ordering
some Connectors on EBAY but they are slightly oversized and will not fit
into a standard KATO connector.
Dave T
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Steve Jackson
Di Tape
Mark Cartwright
Philip Taylor