JRM at Smithsonian Museum of Modern Art March 22
If anyone is in the DC area this weekend our club, the Japan Rail Modelers of Washington DC, will have a small Ttrak setup at the Smithsonian Museum of American Art this weekend for the Cherry Blossom Festival event from 11:30a-3p. iIts a fun event with Taiko drummers, Dances, and music. We have done a number of different cherry blossom festival events here in DC [its a month long thing here] over the years, but this is the first time for us to get into a Smithsonian!
We will also be at the huge Sakura Matsuri street festival on Pennsylvania Ave April 12-13 with Ttrak as well. This one is over a hundred thousand people and quite an event.
It’s really fun to bring model trains with Ttrak to these public [non train] events. Folks are not expecting to see model trains and are very surprised and get big O mouths and always say oh how I remember my trains as a kid or my dad had a layout in the basement! Really fun to talk to people about the hobby and plant seeds out there to bring new folks in. Of course we are a super kid pleaser and these events tend to have a lot of kids.
Cheers
Jeff Reynolds
|
Johnson City - Big Train Show
Greetings,
?
We'll be setting up a T-Trak Exhibit at the Johnson City Big Train Show, May 30-31, 2025.? In case you looked at your calendar, yes, this is Friday and Saturday.? We set up on Thursday afternoon and any T-Traker is more than welcome to hop on board with us.? This will be our third year, and the venue is awesome, to say the least.? We have lots of space and tables set aside, so?the more, the merrier!? We'll set up during the afternoon of May 29 (Thursday) and you can drive your vehicle inside the arena to unload.? How easy is that?? Plenty of nearby parking available in a "no charge" parking garage.? Our control system supports Digitrax Duplex Throttle, and we use JMRI WiFi Throttle Server.? We have one additional booster and plenty of harness, to cover the space allotted to us, so all you should need is your modules and trains.? We support both Kato and Power Pole connections along with 12VDC and 16VAC power.? This is picturesque setting in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Norfolk Southern Meridian Express corridor.
?
On behalf of Tennessee T-Trak Associates, it's my sincere hope that you will join us at the Johnson City Big Train Show on May 30-31.? Following is the link to our signup form, or you may email me directly with your contact information and modules to?ebminn@....? ?
?
Please sign up here: ?
?
ETSU/Ballad Health Athletic Center Mini-Dome
1081 John Robert Bell Dr, Johnson City, TN 37601
?
We hope to see you in Johnson City TN....
?
Ed..
Tennessee T-Trak Associates
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
I'm surprised as well...
Apart from answering the original query, I don't know why we'd want to 're-invent the wheel' when a standard already exists.
I understand some groups/clubs wanting an accessory bus when there exist a number of modules needing accessory power, but we, in the Southeast area, have always left that responsibity to the individual or club, only supplying the electrical extension cord they need in which to plug in their power supply for said accessory bus.? We're doing the same for The 2026 Chattanooga National T-TRAK Layout. We'll provide the electrical extension cords to every peninsula in the layout. The individual and/or club will have to supply their own accessory power supply and bus to their modules.
? ?I'm much more 'concerned' with the dual standard of power bus in the T-TRAK standards document - the single Blue/White powerpole-connected power bus, where both red and yellow module drops plug into the same bus line, and the 'double line' Red and Yellow powerpole-connected power bus...
?Yes, I understand that clubs who operate DCC only, all the time, easily adopted the blue/white single line power bus, and, it works for them...but, it also assumes that the layout is all or nothing (all DCC or all DC).
On the other hand, we, here in the larger Southeast region, even though we tend to always run all DCC, adopted the dual line Red and yellow powerpole connected bus, so as to be able to accomodate all situations, and maintain the utmost flexibility in the desire to be able to 'play well' with all others. We also adopted the red and yellow powerpole clustered bus because, well....Red and Yellow line, right?
? ?So, my concern is how do we connect these two, separate types of power bus to each other, when it's neccessary to carry bus to more and more lengths of modules?
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
I have been surprised by the level of interest in this.? I have set up in shows from Florida to Massachusetts and as far west as St Louis.? I have never heard this discussed as an issue.? Modules set up with wbbw instead of bwwb yes, but no issues with bus wires.? Have folks had issues and fried equipment?
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 5:39 PM, Martin Myers via groups.io <martinmyers21214@...> wrote: I can understand the possibility of plugging an AC bus into a DC bus
because the configuration is the same. However the Brown/black plug and
white/black plug difference should be easy to see. Anderson's Brown
housings are hard to differentiate from the black ones even in good
light. The white ones stick out like a sore thumb.
White line on NTRAK was always intended to be for DC throttles and not
to be used for other DC powered accessories. I really don't see much use
for two accessory bus' on TTrak layouts. BANTRAK has only needed pairs
of track bus cables which we made up with red/black and yellow/black
connectors. Red/black powers the outside track. Yellow/black powers the
inside track. We picked these colors because most of the people figuring
this stuff out came from NTRAK beginnings and there was no sense trying
to reinvent the wheel.
The Brown AC bus was intended to power accessories on modules. The AC
accessory bus originated with Fremo. We looked at it as a solution to
dairy chaining 120VAC extension cords around the layout. 16vac can be
readily rectified to DC where needed and used right off the bus for
other use.? Powering some switch machines, lighting including leds, etc.
My club uses a couple of MF615 power supplies for our Brown accessory
bus. Members that need power on their modules use a Y cable connection
to connect their module to the bus. If trouble arises, that Y connector
can be easily removed to isolate the problem until repaired.
?as far as the roll pin problem when using a vertical housing and a
horizontal housing. I have used a drop of CA in the joint to lock them
together but me favorite solution is to touch the joint with the tip of
a soldering iron to lock them together. We use this configuration to
connect ou DCC programing track to the program terminals of our command
station. That's the one you really don't want to mix up.
Martin Myers
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Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
I can understand the possibility of plugging an AC bus into a DC bus because the configuration is the same. However the Brown/black plug and white/black plug difference should be easy to see. Anderson's Brown housings are hard to differentiate from the black ones even in good light. The white ones stick out like a sore thumb.
White line on NTRAK was always intended to be for DC throttles and not to be used for other DC powered accessories. I really don't see much use for two accessory bus' on TTrak layouts. BANTRAK has only needed pairs of track bus cables which we made up with red/black and yellow/black connectors. Red/black powers the outside track. Yellow/black powers the inside track. We picked these colors because most of the people figuring this stuff out came from NTRAK beginnings and there was no sense trying to reinvent the wheel.
The Brown AC bus was intended to power accessories on modules. The AC accessory bus originated with Fremo. We looked at it as a solution to dairy chaining 120VAC extension cords around the layout. 16vac can be readily rectified to DC where needed and used right off the bus for other use.? Powering some switch machines, lighting including leds, etc. My club uses a couple of MF615 power supplies for our Brown accessory bus. Members that need power on their modules use a Y cable connection to connect their module to the bus. If trouble arises, that Y connector can be easily removed to isolate the problem until repaired.
?as far as the roll pin problem when using a vertical housing and a horizontal housing. I have used a drop of CA in the joint to lock them together but me favorite solution is to touch the joint with the tip of a soldering iron to lock them together. We use this configuration to connect ou DCC programing track to the program terminals of our command station. That's the one you really don't want to mix up.
Martin Myers
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Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Thanks Guys,
We currently provide a DC bus as many of our members have LEDs on their modules and some Arduinos.? I'm the only one in the group needing AC, at least today, which is not a problem.? ?Just thinking ahead on how best to identify the new AC bus-pigtails
to avoid disaster.? Obviously the OK solution is the most foolproof but would require retrofit and added cost.
For TNT-Trak, I'll most likely make the AC bus up according to standard but also add tags to the harness.
See you in Chattanooga if not before..
Ed
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Show quoted text
Oklahoma N-Rail uses an AC bus only.? If we need DC, we put a converter under the module.? That means we don't need to run two buses and we avoid confusion.
It's a little more work adding powered accessories and a little but more expensive, but it is a lot less expensive than repairing what happens when you plug in the wrong bus and less expensive than running yet another bus.
?-bruce
Bruce G Alcock?| OK N-Rail?| 405-381-4314?| nytrr@...
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of He Ro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2025 2:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard
Ed and everyone,
one thing that's getting very little mention: You can always stack more than two PowerPoles. Bruce shared a few photos earlier of their 2x2 track power combination.
If you stack AC accessory and DC accessory connections together in a 1x4 horizontal stack, you won't have to look at colors during assembly.
If you don't install the locking pins between the AC and the DC bus connectors, you can very easily change them back to full standards compliance. (at least much easier than T-shape or upside down combinations).
You could even connect a module which has only one of the two buses in there (though then you'd have to check colors, and obviously it will break the other bus).
Heiko
P.S: Since we don't use PowerPoles or accessory buses in Fremo, I only have red, black and green at hand.
On 3/3/25 01:17, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote:
> Thanks John,
>
> However, I expressed a concern that the AC and DC bus connections can
> get accidently crossed up because the only thing that distinguishes
> the two are the hood colors.? So, in the haste of getting a layout
> online and tested, it’s easy to see that a possibility of connecting a
> DC power source to an AC accessory could easily happen.? And it could be costly!!
>
> Of course, we’ll take every precaution that this doesn’t happen, but I
> think the awareness of the possibility and discussion about possible
> modifications is worthwhile.
--
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Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung:
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Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Oklahoma N-Rail uses an AC bus only. If we need DC, we put a converter under the module. That means we don't need to run two buses and we avoid confusion.
It's a little more work adding powered accessories and a little but more expensive, but it is a lot less expensive than repairing what happens when you plug in the wrong bus and less expensive than running yet another bus.
-bruce
Bruce G Alcock?| OK N-Rail?| 405-381-4314?| nytrr@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of He Ro via groups.io Sent: Monday, March 3, 2025 2:01 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard Ed and everyone, one thing that's getting very little mention: You can always stack more than two PowerPoles. Bruce shared a few photos earlier of their 2x2 track power combination. If you stack AC accessory and DC accessory connections together in a 1x4 horizontal stack, you won't have to look at colors during assembly. If you don't install the locking pins between the AC and the DC bus connectors, you can very easily change them back to full standards compliance. (at least much easier than T-shape or upside down combinations). You could even connect a module which has only one of the two buses in there (though then you'd have to check colors, and obviously it will break the other bus). Heiko P.S: Since we don't use PowerPoles or accessory buses in Fremo, I only have red, black and green at hand. On 3/3/25 01:17, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote: Thanks John,
However, I expressed a concern that the AC and DC bus connections can
get accidently crossed up because the only thing that distinguishes
the two are the hood colors.? So, in the haste of getting a layout
online and tested, it’s easy to see that a possibility of connecting a
DC power source to an AC accessory could easily happen.? And it could be costly!!
Of course, we’ll take every precaution that this doesn’t happen, but I
think the awareness of the possibility and discussion about possible
modifications is worthwhile. -- eMails verschlüsseln mit PGP - privacy is your right! Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung:
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Ed and everyone,
one thing that's getting very little mention: You can always stack more than two PowerPoles. Bruce shared a few photos earlier of their 2x2 track power combination.
If you stack AC accessory and DC accessory connections together in a 1x4 horizontal stack, you won't have to look at colors during assembly.
If you don't install the locking pins between the AC and the DC bus connectors, you can very easily change them back to full standards compliance. (at least much easier than T-shape or upside down combinations).
You could even connect a module which has only one of the two buses in there (though then you'd have to check colors, and obviously it will break the other bus).
Heiko
P.S: Since we don't use PowerPoles or accessory buses in Fremo, I only have red, black and green at hand.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/3/25 01:17, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote: Thanks John,
However, I expressed a concern that the AC and DC bus connections can get accidently crossed up because the only thing that distinguishes the two are the hood colors.? So, in the haste of getting a layout online and tested, it’s easy to see that a possibility of connecting a DC power source to an AC accessory could easily happen.? And it could be costly!!
Of course, we’ll take every precaution that this doesn’t happen, but I think the awareness of the possibility and discussion about possible modifications is worthwhile.
--
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Mein PGP-Key zur Verifizierung:
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Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
This will be the Standard the NMRA will be adopting as the standard. Thanks John.
Andy
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member
Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Hi Folks:
?
Like Martin Myers, I was a member of the committee that developed the use of Powerpoles and created the current standards.
?
- A Recommended Practice (RP) in 2005/2006.
?
- This became the standard in 2012.
?
- It was decided that the Powerpole orientation would be vertical for the track buses and horizontal for the power buses.
?
- The color code would be a color combined with a black Powerpole. A specific color for each bus.
?
- When connecting a bus, you must ensure the color code of the bus matches the color code of the connection, e.g. rack or power.
?
The NTRAK and T-TRAK standards and recommended practices are owned by NRail, Inc. NRail has no plans to alter or change the electrical standards for either NTRAK or T-TRAK.
?
Regards,
?
John Wallis
President, N Rail.
?
?
I agree that one hood up and one hood down does not lock-slide together - neither side-by-side nor vertically.? The one hood up and one hood vertical will slide-lock on 2 configurations.? I am too new to this to know if the panel mount and cable terminal
holders could work with the orientations that do not slide-lock the individual connectors.
Steve
On 3/2/2025 5:50 PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote:
Steve,
?
You are correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood vertical configuration.?
This orientation can be reversed for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.?
?
?
?
But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle .
Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong thing fit.
Steve Long
On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via groups.io wrote:
Ed,????????
Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member
Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
?
Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get
plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
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|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Thanks John, ? Please be assured that Tennessee T-Trak complies with the T-Trak Wiring Standards, including the DC and AC accessory bus configuration.? However, I expressed a concern that the AC and DC bus connections can get accidently crossed up because the only thing that distinguishes the two are the hood colors.? So, in the haste of getting a layout online and tested, it’s easy to see that a possibility of connecting a DC power source to an AC accessory could easily happen.? And it could be costly!! ? Of course, we’ll take every precaution that this doesn’t happen, but I think the awareness of the possibility and discussion about possible modifications is worthwhile.? ? It would be nice if all we need to deal with are apples and oranges.? Unfortunately, we also have bananas, and strawberries.? Track power can be either DC or AC (DCC), and accessories are ?DC and AC.? Most of this is dictated by the manufacturer of control systems and accessories. ? Anyway, I enjoyed the discussion and hope that folks on T-Trak Global received some benefit from all these email posts… ? Have a great week everyone… ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John M Wallis via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 5:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: bruce@...
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? ? Hi Folks: ? Like Martin Myers, I was a member of the committee that developed the use of Powerpoles and created the current standards. ? - A Recommended Practice (RP) in 2005/2006.
? - This became the standard in 2012.
? - It was decided that the Powerpole orientation would be vertical for the track buses and horizontal for the power buses.
? - The color code would be a color combined with a black Powerpole. A specific color for each bus.
? - When connecting a bus, you must ensure the color code of the bus matches the color code of the connection, e.g. rack or power.
? The NTRAK and T-TRAK standards and recommended practices are owned by NRail, Inc. NRail has no plans to alter or change the electrical standards for either NTRAK or T-TRAK. ? Regards, ? John Wallis President, N Rail. ? ? I agree that one hood up and one hood down does not lock-slide together - neither side-by-side nor vertically.? The one hood up and one hood vertical will slide-lock on 2 configurations.? I am too new to this to know if the panel mount and cable terminal holders could work with the orientations that do not slide-lock the individual connectors. Steve On 3/2/2025 5:50 PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote: Steve, ? You are correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood vertical configuration.? This orientation can be reversed for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.? ? ? ? But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle . Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong thing fit. Steve Long On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via groups.io wrote: Ed,???????? Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down ? Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy ? Andy J. Zimmerman ATCS AW USN Ret. BBMRA President
NRMRC Member NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399 ? ? ? ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
? Hi Folks: ? Like Martin Myers, I was a member of the committee that developed the use of Powerpoles and created the current standards. ? - A Recommended Practice (RP) in 2005/2006.
? - This became the standard in 2012.
? - It was decided that the Powerpole orientation would be vertical for the track buses and horizontal for the power buses.
? - The color code would be a color combined with a black Powerpole. A specific color for each bus.
? - When connecting a bus, you must ensure the color code of the bus matches the color code of the connection, e.g. rack or power.
? The NTRAK and T-TRAK standards and recommended practices are owned by NRail, Inc. NRail has no plans to alter or change the electrical standards for either NTRAK or T-TRAK. ? Regards, ? John Wallis President, N Rail. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Long via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 6:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? I agree that one hood up and one hood down does not lock-slide together - neither side-by-side nor vertically.? The one hood up and one hood vertical will slide-lock on 2 configurations.? I am too new to this to know if the panel mount and cable terminal holders could work with the orientations that do not slide-lock the individual connectors. Steve On 3/2/2025 5:50 PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote: Steve, ? You are correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood vertical configuration.? This orientation can be reversed for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.? ? ? ? But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle . Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong thing fit. Steve Long On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via groups.io wrote: Ed,???????? Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down ? Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy ? Andy J. Zimmerman ATCS AW USN Ret. BBMRA President
NRMRC Member NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399 ? ? ? ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
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|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
I assembled a one hood up and one hood sideways and unfortunately the locking pin cannot be used with this configuration.? Bummer!! ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Long via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 5:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? I agree that one hood up and one hood down does not lock-slide together - neither side-by-side nor vertically.? The one hood up and one hood vertical will slide-lock on 2 configurations.? I am too new to this to know if the panel mount and cable terminal holders could work with the orientations that do not slide-lock the individual connectors. Steve On 3/2/2025 5:50 PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io wrote: Steve, ? You are correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood vertical configuration.? This orientation can be reversed for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.? ? ? ? But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle . Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong thing fit. Steve Long On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via groups.io wrote: Ed,???????? Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down ? Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy ? Andy J. Zimmerman ATCS AW USN Ret. BBMRA President
NRMRC Member NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399 ? ? ? ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
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Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
I agree that one hood up and one hood down does not lock-slide
together - neither side-by-side nor vertically.? The one hood up
and one hood vertical will slide-lock on 2 configurations.? I am
too new to this to know if the panel mount and cable terminal
holders could work with the orientations that do not slide-lock
the individual connectors.
Steve
On 3/2/2025 5:50 PM, Ed Minnich via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Steve,
?
You are
correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and
discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down
configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood
vertical configuration.? This orientation can be reversed
for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.?
?
?
?
But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into
a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side
connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn
the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong
receptacle .
Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood
vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical
configurations so that it is just not possible to make the
wrong thing fit.
Steve Long
On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via
groups.io wrote:
Ed,????????
Our DCC
bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line)
Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black
(Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black
horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs
use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J.
Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN
Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice
President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR
President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT
Volunteer Member
Ph- (C )
850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
?
Would be nice to take another look at
brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same
way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a
module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the
connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would
damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and
buck converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be
configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by
side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent
accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to
think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the
standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables
different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables
will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track
bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable.
Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since
DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be
trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus
from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power
supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines
including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a
stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and
could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are
optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track
bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory
power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to
connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a
cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG
antivirus software.
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Steve, ? You are correct.? I experimented with my PP Connector supply and discovered you cannot make a one hood up and one hood down configuration.? But, you can make a one hood up and one hood vertical configuration.? This orientation can be reversed for the opposite end of the harness and for the module.? ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Long via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle . Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong thing fit. Steve Long On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via groups.io wrote: Ed,???????? Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down ? Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy ? Andy J. Zimmerman ATCS AW USN Ret. BBMRA President
NRMRC Member NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399 ? ? ? ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
But it is still physically possible to plug an AC cable into a DC
receptacle and vice versa, if both are side-by-side connectors
with hoods in the same orientation - you just turn the plug
combination upside down and push it into the wrong receptacle .
Perhaps a one hood up and the other down, or even one hood
vertical and one horizontal could be used for unique physical
configurations so that it is just not possible to make the wrong
thing fit.
Steve Long
On 3/2/2025 3:16 PM, Andy Zimmerman via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Ed,????????
Our DCC bus
is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black
(vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal,
Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs
use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice
President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR
President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer
Member
Ph- (C )
850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
?
Would be nice to take another look at
brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way
as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module
that has both DC and AC power requirements and the
connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would
damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck
converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be
configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by
side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent
accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think
about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard
for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different
from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will
only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track
bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main
bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC
may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be
trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from
being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power
supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines
including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a
stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could
also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are
optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus
cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power
bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to
connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a
cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus
software.
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Thanks, Philip, for your observation, ? In playing around with some PP connectors in my supply box, I noticed you can have one connector “hood down or hood up” and the other connector “sideways”.? I realize that such a configuration requires T-Trak Standard approval, but it’s worth a thought and certainly easy to modify.? I didn’t realize the possibility of accidentally hooking up a dc to ac until I had a module requiring both types of current.? ? On another note, last year I configured one of our DC busses backwards and blew all the semiconductors in two of my modules.? Fortunately, the other guys were not affected since they only had LEDs on their modules.? I now protect all DC module feeds with a heavy diode on the positive lead and pass them out to any member who has a DC requirement.? ? Guess I’m sensitive to this because many of my modules contain Arduinos and other electronic devices. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Philip Taylor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 2:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? The variance of colors does raise some concern especially as there could be nasty consequences in hooking up the wrong pairs. . Since there are at least 10 different colors with Anderson Powerpole then it might be good to consider that there are no duplicate colors used in any pairs. ?It may even be worth considering using an alternate plug type for AC to keep it from being cross connected by accident. ? Philip Taylor
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:20?PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io <ebminn@...> wrote: ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. The 12vdc bus is the?white?bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The?
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main?
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect?
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from?
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were?
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering?
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely?
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged?
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be?
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by?
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus?
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC?
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most?
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.?
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.?
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next?
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug?
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--?
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
?
--
Philip Taylor
Virginia Central NRail
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
The variance of colors does raise some concern especially as there could be nasty consequences in hooking up the wrong pairs. . Since there are at least 10 different colors with Anderson Powerpole then it might be good to consider that there are no duplicate colors used in any pairs. ?It may even be worth considering using an alternate plug type for AC to keep it from being cross connected by accident. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 2, 2025, at 3:20?PM, Ed Minnich via groups.io <ebminn@...> wrote:
Hi John, ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. ? Cheers, <image001.png> Ed Minnich 615.416.2892 ? ? Hi Ed: ? The 12vdc bus is the?white?bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. ? Regards, ? John Wallis ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The?
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main?
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect?
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from?
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were?
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering?
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely?
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged?
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be?
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by?
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus?
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC?
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most?
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.?
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.?
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next?
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug?
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--?
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
--
Philip Taylor
Virginia Central NRail
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Hi John, ? Correct, my mistake.? However, both the white and brown bus PP connectors are configured the same way so it is possible to accidentally interconnect the two.? At least that’s the way it looks on the T-Trak Standards illustration. ? Cheers, ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John M Wallis via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 2:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard? Hi Ed: ? The 12vdc bus is the white bus per the standard, not the black bus, so there is no uncertainty re the two buses. ? Regards, ? John Wallis ? ? Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.?? Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Re: Power Pole housing stacking standard
Ed,????????
Our DCC bus is Red/Black (Vertical hood up, Outside line) Yellow/Black (vertical hood up) Our DC bus is White/Black (Horizontal, Hood Up) and our AC bus is Black/Black horizontal hood down
?
Some Clubs use Blue/White instead of Red/Black/Yellow/Black.
Andy
?
Andy J. Zimmerman
ATCS AW USN Ret.
BBMRA President
NRMRC Member
NRail Vice President and Social Media Manager
NMRA SSR President
NMRA Standards & Conformance Manager and? IT Volunteer Member
Ph- (C ) 850-524-4399
?
?
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Ed Minnich via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2025 1:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [T-TrakGlobal] Power Pole housing stacking standard
?
Would be nice to take another look at brown 16vac bus connection as it is configured the same way as the black 12vdc bus.? I'm currently working on a module that has both DC and AC power requirements and the connections can easily get plugged
in wrong.? 12vdc would damage my AC motors and 16vac would fry my Arduinos and buck converters.??
Don't now if PP connectors can be configured with brown hood up and black hood done, side by side.? Reverse on opposite end.? That would prevent accidental connection of dc to ac.? Just something to think about.
Zteve,
I was a member of the group that developed the standard for NTRAK. The
stacking idea was to make the track bus cables different from the main
power bus cables. The stacked configuration cables will only connect
with other stacked cables. That keeps all of the track bus cables from
being connected directly to a main power bus cable. Main bus cables were
side by side (White line) which is always DC. Since DCC may be powering
one or more track bus cables mixing the two would be trouble likely
causing equipment damage. This won't keep a red bus from being plugged
into a yellow or blue bus but at least the main power supply wouldn't be
damaged.
BTW, we also added provision for other bus lines including a side by
side Brown bus that was to be for 16VAC power and a stacked Purple bus
to be used for DCC power to accessory decoders and could also supply DCC
to the individual track bus cables. Both of these are optional and most
clubs do not include them.
I believe the same principals apply to T Trak track bus cables as well.
Stacked for track bus. Side by side for accessory power bus if needed.
Both configurations allow one end of each cable to connect to the next
cable. A quick way of checking is that the ends of a cable should plug
together with the housing colors matching.
Martin Myers
BANTRAK
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
|
Andy Zimmerman
Philip Taylor