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There has been some discussion regarding updating the Australian T-TRAK guidelines.
We see two main audiences for these guidelines. Firstly, of primary importance, we seek to help people new to the hobby or new to T-TRAK, looking for guidance on building their first modules and seeking inspiration for what they might do. Secondly, this is a reference for everyone seeking to check the nitty gritty - the specifications, measurements, wiring requirements and other details. We would like to have the emphasis on flexibilty and creativity, though still complying with the essentials that allow a train to move from one module to the next.
We have discussed making this T-TRAK for all scales and some emerging variants such as single track. The obvious differences would be addressed.
Whilst part of the overall picture, track buses are considered a secondary concern, mainly for large set ups and exhibitions. However, power connection to modules is a primary issue and now may be an opportune time to consider a second option to RCA connections on modules. No, that does not mean you have to remove and replace any RCA connections nor does it mean you should not continue using RCA connections on future modules.
Some other factors we have considered include how to make best use of guidelines, standards and other material developed in other parts of the world and whether we need to focus on an online format with web pages for each element with "print this page" capability, a consolidated, printable PDF document or perhaps some form of hybrid.
So, we are looking to the future and what we can do to meet changing needs. We may or may not address all these ideas but everything starts with ideas. What we achieve will depend on what targets we decide are appropriate and the resources we have available to make it happen. We anticipate some baby steps in the evolution.
We welcome suggestions and contributions.
Dave Mc.
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Hi David,
Not on Facebook so don't know if any movement there.
For me, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I not sure the current Guidelines are broken. I know there has been the odd comment alleging the current Guidelines are to restrictive in width (length) and depth. I have never found this to be the case and have never felt obliged to stick to the 300mm depth having a number of modules that are in excess of 300mm deep. Maybe a recommendation is referenced in the Guidelines and is attached discussing depth.
My opinion is the Guidelines should remain scale specific and again a references made to single track, power buses, skyboard attachment methods and have separate documents (recommendation).
If we do go down the path of one document fits all then a simple method of printing out the pages relevent to N scale would be appreciated as some of us prefer a hard copy rather than a display on a screen.
?
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
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Re some of Martin Watts Comments.
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Comments about documentation:
My layout is in my shed and out of internet range, I usually discourage printing of large documents but in this instance it would be my choice to have Hard Copy, so the ability to print the parts relevant to HO/OO, in my situation, would be paramount.
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Separated by COVID-19 restrictions, Joined by Modern Technology.
John Milnes
Sent from for Windows 10
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From: Martin Watts
Sent: Friday, 18 September 2020 11:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TTRAKAustraliaHOandNScales] Australian T-TRAK Guidelines Review
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Hi David,
Not on Facebook so don't know if any movement there.
For me, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I not sure the current Guidelines are broken. I know there has been the odd comment alleging the current Guidelines are to restrictive in width (length) and depth. I have never found this to be the case and have never
felt obliged to stick to the 300mm depth having a number of modules that are in excess of 300mm deep. Maybe a recommendation is referenced in the Guidelines and is attached discussing depth.
My opinion is the Guidelines should remain scale specific and again a references made to single track, power buses, skyboard attachment methods and have separate documents (recommendation).
If we do go down the path of one document fits all then a simple method of printing out the pages relevent to N scale would be appreciated as some of us prefer a hard copy rather than a display on a screen.
?
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
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Hi all group members I have been reading all the comments with interest. I agree that the existing standards should remain but with some improvements. Our Fremantle club found the "T" nuts unreliable and prone to falling out. We are now using M8 screw furniture inserts which can be tightened by a M8 Hex spanner. Use the longer ones.
All holes are the same size as specified. Make sure the specifications updates are metric as my early modules were imperial. I have converted them now to metric. It's hard to find 5/16" w.
From the American T-Trak specifications they have a 4 foot module.? Would like to see that included in the Australian version. Another idea our club is exploring is attachment modules which can be added at the front for public viewing and eye catching such as a fair, turntable, working boat which has trains..
I support a separate manual on wiring of DCC. Our club is experimenting with Arduino and Raspberry Pi technology for Power source and using mobile phones via "Train Driver" app. There is a mention of using DC circuit breakers but lacks details, can anyone help? Regard Doug McLean
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 14:46, John Milnes < jmilnes@...> wrote:
Re some of Martin Watts Comments.
?
Comments about documentation:
My layout is in my shed and out of internet range, I usually discourage printing of large documents but in this instance it would be my choice to have Hard Copy, so the ability to print the parts relevant to HO/OO, in my situation, would be paramount.
?
Separated by COVID-19 restrictions, Joined by Modern Technology.
John Milnes
Sent from for Windows 10
?
From: Martin Watts
Sent: Friday, 18 September 2020 11:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TTRAKAustraliaHOandNScales] Australian T-TRAK Guidelines Review
?
Hi David,
Not on Facebook so don't know if any movement there.
For me, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I not sure the current Guidelines are broken. I know there has been the odd comment alleging the current Guidelines are to restrictive in width (length) and depth. I have never found this to be the case and have never
felt obliged to stick to the 300mm depth having a number of modules that are in excess of 300mm deep. Maybe a recommendation is referenced in the Guidelines and is attached discussing depth.
My opinion is the Guidelines should remain scale specific and again a references made to single track, power buses, skyboard attachment methods and have separate documents (recommendation).
If we do go down the path of one document fits all then a simple method of printing out the pages relevent to N scale would be appreciated as some of us prefer a hard copy rather than a display on a screen.
?
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
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Hi Doug,
I have used 100 T-Nuts so far and the only time I have had issue is when I have successfully driven a nail into the levelling bolt hole during the construction process only to have the levelling bolt screw in until coming to rest on the nail and then jacking the T-Nut out. I have heard of others having issues and am exploring the use of inserts.
As far as widths (module lengths) and depths are concerned there is nothing in the guidelines that has restricted me and I have modules varying in width from 124mm to a quad with depths varying from 150mm to 415mm. If I ever decide to take the 124mm module to a meet then if setting up a typical banquet table arrangement I will need to provide a corresponding module for the other side of the layout if I want to have any chance of having it included.
We just have to remember they are Guidelines. If it is felt certain aspects need to be elaborated on the include them in recommendations attached to the Guidelines.
The group of modelers I exhibit with in Melbourne developed a robust power distribution bus setup for DCC operation all based around the BWWB module wiring guideline and at the end of the day if someone doesn't follow the BWWB practice then don't power their module in the layout, no big issue. The Display Co-Ordinator just needs to know.
I take it you are using the Arduino and a motor shield for a DCC++ setup running JMRI on a Raspberry Pi. Once this operational and you have reversed the polarity on one of the mains (We typically reverse the rear main if using cross overs) you will have a great time operating your layout.
Again, methods of reversing the required polarity could be included in an attached recommendation.
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
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Folks,
About a year ago, we discussed updating the Australian T-TRAK guidelines. Whilst you think that, with Covid around, we would have had ample time to work on it and that perhaps the project has fizzled out. Neither are true. A small group has been plodding along, squeezing in some time among other personal modelling projects and domestic pressures.
The group decided that an environmentally friendly, on-line format is more desirable in the modern world, more easily navigable for emerging T-TRAKers. This will also make it easier to update portions as needs arise rather than a major review once a decade. For the fossils among us, we will also make a consolidated PDF file available though this may lag behind the online version.
Although T-TRAK was originally N scale specific, it has expanded and now encompasses a number of scales. N scale is the most common scale used for T-TRAK in Australia, followed by HO. Rather than repeat elements common to all scales, we have opted to combine the documentation so have N scale and HO scale threads.
The Australian T-TRAK website is hosted using Google Sites which is a free service, matching our available budget. As a free service, it is limited in capability, restricting our options.
Below is a link for the current state of progress of the new guidelines. It is still work in progress so now is a good time for further suggestions and discussion.
The current guidelines are here:?
Special thanks to Graham Cocks for the effort he has put into this.
Regards,
Aus T-TRAK review team.
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Good Afternoon,
Nice work so far and a big thank you to those who done the hard yards for the rest of us.
Having perused very little so far, one question I have is regarding skyboards and the use of 6mm MDF.
I have found 3mm MDF to be more than suitable if painted both side over the last 12 years.
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
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Hi Railroaders I like what I see, I am very please to see plywood mentioned, for safety I have ceased using MDF in all my woodwork. Back in 1982 I built some portable storage cupboards out of marine grade plywood and a 2 part marine grade glue and oil based paint.? The cupboards have moved several times and are still as good as the day they were built.? I think the added cost is well worth the investment. ? John Milnes Johnm101@... ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Saturday, 9 October 2021 1:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TTRAKAustraliaHOandNScales] Australian T-TRAK Guidelines Review? Folks,
About a year ago, we discussed updating the Australian T-TRAK guidelines. Whilst you think that, with Covid around, we would have had ample time to work on it and that perhaps the project has fizzled out. Neither are true. A small group has been plodding along, squeezing in some time among other personal modelling projects and domestic pressures.
The group decided that an environmentally friendly, on-line format is more desirable in the modern world, more easily navigable for emerging T-TRAKers. This will also make it easier to update portions as needs arise rather than a major review once a decade. For the fossils among us, we will also make a consolidated PDF file available though this may lag behind the online version.
Although T-TRAK was originally N scale specific, it has expanded and now encompasses a number of scales. N scale is the most common scale used for T-TRAK in Australia, followed by HO. Rather than repeat elements common to all scales, we have opted to combine the documentation so have N scale and HO scale threads.
The Australian T-TRAK website is hosted using Google Sites which is a free service, matching our available budget. As a free service, it is limited in capability, restricting our options.
Below is a link for the current state of progress of the new guidelines. It is still work in progress so now is a good time for further suggestions and discussion.
The current guidelines are here:?
Special thanks to Graham Cocks for the effort he has put into this.
Regards,
Aus T-TRAK review team. ? ? ?
| Scanned by and confirmed virus-free. |
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Attention Australian T-TRAK Review Team,
I recently have experimented with some HO scale table-top modules using Kato track, along the lines of standard T-TRAK-HO, but with some slight variations. First, since my table saw only allows the rip fence to be set at a maximum dimension of 24”, ripping plywood down to 28” squares for the corners couldn’t be done, ignoring how wasteful that would be given that standard ply is only available in 48”x96” sheets around here. So, I settled on 23-13/16”, which is just about right for the use of Kato’s number 3 curve which is 490mm (the same radius as their #4 manual turnouts with a slight exception) to be used as the outer curve, while still leaving room for a passing siding without crowding the module’s edge. For the inner curve, Kato’s 2-260 430mm (16-7/8”) radius will work, although It’s a bit tighter than I would have preferred, but should be OK for most small steam and 4 axle diesel locos. Original plans called for these modules to be single-tracked rather than double, but double tracks were settled on for various reasons.
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Using the same 23-13/16” dimension for the straight modules as well as the corners, allows for use of two standard 246mm straights plus a single 2-120 114mm (4-1/2”) short straight, which means that you can make a passing siding come out even at the module’s edge without having to custom-cut any tracks to fit. Unfortunately, any passing sidings using the #4 manual turnouts will only allow you to have 75mm track centers, making custom track work necessary if you want to use Kato’s 60mm track centers as prescribed by their standard curve radii dimensions. This is true, however, whether you use the standard T-TRAK 28” corners or the smaller 23-13/16” corners as described here. All of my modules, both corners and straights are 23-13/16” square “tiles” which standardizes the construction, making things a bit simpler.
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The point of all this is that the standard straight modules should not be built to only include two pieces of 246mm straights, but should be made instead to the 23-13/16” length, including a #2-120 114mm straight as well, in order to make adding a turnout/siding on a standard single module that much easier.
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Respectfully,
Bill Nielsen in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Excellent work! This looks really good.
Only contribution that I can offer is some laser-cutting designs that I have done for single T-TRAK N scale and HO scale - These have been uploaded to Thingiverse?
Laser-cut T-TRAK single module N scale 14-inch depth -? Laser-cut T-TRAK single module HO scale 14-inch depth -?
These designs are intended for cutting in 6 mm plywood (or equivalent) material and allows for "no-tool" assembly using hobby glue (although a hammer and wood block may help when connecting pieces together). Avoid performing any "trial fit" before you are ready to glue the module together as this merely loosens the fit between module pieces. These designs are intended to be equivalent to the commercial T-TRAK module offerings available from Masterpiece Modules and CMR Products.
If there is interest, I can update these so that they are perfectly in line with the dimensions described in these documents (where I would note a deeper standard depth is being recommended for the HO single module).
Regards, Rob
Folks,
About a year ago, we discussed updating the Australian T-TRAK guidelines. Whilst you think that, with Covid around, we would have had ample time to work on it and that perhaps the project has fizzled out. Neither are true. A small group has been plodding along, squeezing in some time among other personal modelling projects and domestic pressures.
The group decided that an environmentally friendly, on-line format is more desirable in the modern world, more easily navigable for emerging T-TRAKers. This will also make it easier to update portions as needs arise rather than a major review once a decade. For the fossils among us, we will also make a consolidated PDF file available though this may lag behind the online version.
Although T-TRAK was originally N scale specific, it has expanded and now encompasses a number of scales. N scale is the most common scale used for T-TRAK in Australia, followed by HO. Rather than repeat elements common to all scales, we have opted to combine the documentation so have N scale and HO scale threads.
The Australian T-TRAK website is hosted using Google Sites which is a free service, matching our available budget. As a free service, it is limited in capability, restricting our options.
Below is a link for the current state of progress of the new guidelines. It is still work in progress so now is a good time for further suggestions and discussion.
The current guidelines are here:?
Special thanks to Graham Cocks for the effort he has put into this.
Regards,
Aus T-TRAK review team.
?
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Hi Australian T-Trak group. Firstly can the Fremantle & District Model Railway Association be added to the active groups. Our club has several members running T-Trak. It's been taken out to different displays. Recently we travelled to Albany to support the local club at their community Expo.
Changes to specifications which we adopted. Removed all "T" nuts. Replaced the T Nuts using an " Insert M8 Flanged 20mm long". It fits into the same drilled hole.
The M8 bolt heads have been fitted with plastic caps printed on a 3D printer. This protects any table tops. The same process was used with the scenery backdrops.? Instead we use M6 inserts. We found that Bunnings stocked a bolt with a wing nut attached.
Backdrops. We retained the size specifications. The background picture technique that we used. The member found a location which suited us. In this case the Port of Fremantle. With his camera took several overlapping photos. Not a panorama scene. Downloaded a program called PHOTO GALLERY onto Windows 10. The photos were then selected. Press "Create" and the pictures are stitched together without any breaks. The picture was saved to a thumb drive and taken to "Office Works" or a similar organisation. The operator prints the picture the length of two long models and standard width. The paper is of a heavy quality. It only cost $15. We glued it to the backdrop and we tested different glues. The final process we used was a "Clear Matt Spray". Another email will cover our DCC operation.
Regard Doug McLean
On Mon, 11 Oct 2021 at 14:39, Rob Casey < rcasey@...> wrote: Excellent work! This looks really good.
Only contribution that I can offer is some laser-cutting designs that I have done for single T-TRAK N scale and HO scale - These have been uploaded to Thingiverse?
Laser-cut T-TRAK single module N scale 14-inch depth -? Laser-cut T-TRAK single module HO scale 14-inch depth -?
These designs are intended for cutting in 6 mm plywood (or equivalent) material and allows for "no-tool" assembly using hobby glue (although a hammer and wood block may help when connecting pieces together). Avoid performing any "trial fit" before you are ready to glue the module together as this merely loosens the fit between module pieces. These designs are intended to be equivalent to the commercial T-TRAK module offerings available from Masterpiece Modules and CMR Products.
If there is interest, I can update these so that they are perfectly in line with the dimensions described in these documents (where I would note a deeper standard depth is being recommended for the HO single module).
Regards, Rob
Folks,
About a year ago, we discussed updating the Australian T-TRAK guidelines. Whilst you think that, with Covid around, we would have had ample time to work on it and that perhaps the project has fizzled out. Neither are true. A small group has been plodding along, squeezing in some time among other personal modelling projects and domestic pressures.
The group decided that an environmentally friendly, on-line format is more desirable in the modern world, more easily navigable for emerging T-TRAKers. This will also make it easier to update portions as needs arise rather than a major review once a decade. For the fossils among us, we will also make a consolidated PDF file available though this may lag behind the online version.
Although T-TRAK was originally N scale specific, it has expanded and now encompasses a number of scales. N scale is the most common scale used for T-TRAK in Australia, followed by HO. Rather than repeat elements common to all scales, we have opted to combine the documentation so have N scale and HO scale threads.
The Australian T-TRAK website is hosted using Google Sites which is a free service, matching our available budget. As a free service, it is limited in capability, restricting our options.
Below is a link for the current state of progress of the new guidelines. It is still work in progress so now is a good time for further suggestions and discussion.
The current guidelines are here:?
Special thanks to Graham Cocks for the effort he has put into this.
Regards,
Aus T-TRAK review team.
?
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