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Gday Chris. This is probably a better forum for these discussions and we can separate items into different threads for better clarity. Whilst you have opened many worthy points, the big one is the power bus. Just a bit more on recent history... The group of which I am part in Melbourne has been displaying T-TRAK at the annual Sandown exhibition almost every year since the late noughties. This exhibition has always been oriented towards encouraging new people into hobbies, not just model railways though that was the main content the first couple of years. They now have RC cars, drones, planes, ships and more and looking at including craft hobbies that tend to be of more interest to women. I think T-TRAK is a perfect match for this exhibition's primary objectives. It suits beginners and being lower, is suits kids and the parents who don't have to lift their kids up. A few years ago (not sure how many but well before the people in America started discussing their bus standard), we started tossing around ideas for a better power bus. The Aus FreemoN guidelines that use PowerPole joiners were the initial focus, though we had to grasp the issues of single track and double track and reversible modules and take into account widely accepted "best practices". We built and tried a couple, including my home set up and from those learnt better options. By this time, the American discussion had started, I contributed a few comments. The biggest flaw on both sides of the Pacific at that time was that the bus cables have an A and a B end. I was looking pretty deeply into what connects to what and the A-B ends made things complicated so I was never really happy with it. We eventually came to a consensus on a solution and opted to build it for our exhibitions without putting into National/Global discussion/review/agreement that would take who knows how long. Right or wrong, that's what we chose to do. We have used it for our last two exhibitions and we are happy with it.? So this was all happening in parallel with the American developments. The major differences between what we came up with and what the Americans came up with are:
- White and Red buses to match White and Red tracks and RCA connectors used here instead of red and yellow, an obvious difference but not incompatible; and
- Side by side mounted PowerPoles instead of one above the other. No more A and B ends, all ends are the same, anything can be plugged into anything else the right colour, no more fiddling to work out which way to lay the cable
We have RCA connectors on the module end of feeder cables, America has Kato/Tamiya connectors. I consider that a minor difference, the individual can provide the connectors they need to fit a large group setup. I had been documenting our various ideas as we progressed. This has recently been put forward as a suggestion for discussion for a National standard, if indeed we need one at all, so that's where we are at now. Let the discussion continue! - Regards, David McMorran Melbourne, Australia
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Hi David,?
Thanks for the feedback, I am aware of the history of some of these decisions and aware that our partners in US, I was updating my previous post by groups has removed it.... dunno, technical glitch I am going with!
The newer standard allows for a Quad Module which we dont currently have in our approved guidelines and the powerpole which you have advised, so our manual would need to incorporate that and then have cutting guides developed etc. My idea behind is that we, Australia, that is, move towards the universal manual now that it covers our and more, with us looking towards more specific guides, i.e. Paint Codes for Australian Paint Suppliers for T Trak, An RCA to Powerpole Adaptor Guide, etc. Cutting Guide for Australian Timber Sizes, those things to assist to modeller and we allow the World (US) to update the single manual, so what they do in the USA, Europe, Asia aligns with what we do here.
I have been in clubs that have done T Trak, NTrak, Austrack and many others, T-Trak Australian Manual was ahead of the US for many years, but we have recently fallen behind with the newer flexibilities that the US Manual offers us, as we can use 210 - 330 wide modules and up to a Quad Module I honestly believe that with the advances the US Manual has made in the last 9 months have been leaps and bounds and has now surpassed our manual.? My new exhibition layout is being built to the Worldwide Standard and the flexibility that has given me is head and shoulders past out manual, as if i conformed 100% to our manual, I would require 3 additional modules and would loose about 40% of scenic items that I can incorporate with the wider 330mm modules
My Suggestioon would to organise maybe a Zoom or Google Meets Session with the State Reps to commence this talking point and commence a working dialog to update this, as we are drafting bus wiring guides, lets go the whole hog and look at a future (2020+) of T-Trak in Australia
The Conversion to using the US Manual wont be popular initially, but we can risk mitigate that by providing viable options to allow the older modules to be interfaced electrically with new modules
As I said, my 2c worth and let the discussion continue
|
I was thinking along similar lines - a Zoom session or similar could be good value at this point though getting an agreeable time is always a challenge.
I have a quad and a sextuple module with track laid and working on scenery, mainly for my home set up but may be included in exhibitions.. We're pretty flexible with things that don't impact compatibility.
The current guidelines say modules can have track length of multiples of 310mm and gives examples up to triples demonstrating the concept that module length is 2mm less than multiples of 310. That needs rewording to be more clear. The table at the back says options of 2x, 3x and 4x.
-Dave Mc.
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Christopher's original message that was somehow deleted:
Hi All
As a builder / owner of new and older T Trak Modules, I thought it would be worthwile putting forward a case for a re-alignment of the T Trak Guidelines.
With the Worldwide standards document now being updated and in some cases, ahead of the Australian Guidelines, my suggestion would be to migrate over the rest of 2020 and 1H 2021 to using the Worldwide Standards and have a number of small guides of adapting the previous modules to the newer standard, i.e. Bus Wire Anderson to RCA Plug, Guide to Australia Specific Paint Codes, Cutting Guide for All Standard Modules, etc.
As the Worldwide Standard is updated more frequently than ours, we simply latch on using that as the primary source of guidance with our specific guides to assist and suppliment the modeller, to enable T Trak to grow in Australia and with Woodland Scenics and Kato now commercially manufacturing a kit to the world wide standard, now is a great time to Migrate across to a unified standard
This is a radical concept on its own, but after having experienced Ntrak and Austrack Standards and the confusion and issues that has caused, T Trak should be simple and engaging for a novice modeller through to an advanced modeller. I have started building my new exhibition layout using the new standard and the sheer flexibility with having modules out to a Quad Module and varying depths has made this possible that would have been difficult with the Australian Guidelines.
Just my 2c worth as the T Trak Modeller and happy for this to be a collegiate discussion towards making T Trak in Australia even better and more accessable.
Cheers
Chris Maloney
Queanbeyan NSW / Perth WA
|
My simple view on the American power standards are they are based too much on the Kato plugs. Generic versions on these are very difficult if not impossible to find in Aus. The local standard that was developed before I started, which uses the rca plug has never failed over 10 years plus exhibiting. The red ?and white is cheap and simple. Buses for power mains appear to be the way both the aus guideline and the usa ones are going, as long as mixed users make converters everything will work.?
On size and depth, I disagree with most people. Keep them as small as possible. In my racks of modules. It is mostly singles, a few doubles and a couple of unique long ones. The larger modules create inflexible arrangements, and exhibitions that look the same. After 12 years of continuous exhibiting at Sandown, ? Variety and changing displays is what keeps the public impressed.?
Full depth modules are heavier and are less tolerant to builder error when joined in big displays. They often jam with neighbouring modules.?
2mm overhang on track At the end On a module ?never hurts a big display . And that breaks the standard. Practical and simple should always win over standards. Individual layouts don’t need to follow standards at all, that’s the beauty of modelling!
Barry Fisher ( Melbourne)?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jul 2020, at 7:24 pm, Graham Cocks <gjlcocks@...> wrote:
?Christopher's original message that was somehow deleted:
Hi All
As a builder / owner of new and older T Trak Modules, I thought it would be worthwile putting forward a case for a re-alignment of the T Trak Guidelines.
With the Worldwide standards document now being updated and in some cases, ahead of the Australian Guidelines, my suggestion would be to migrate over the rest of 2020 and 1H 2021 to using the Worldwide Standards and have a number of small guides of adapting the previous modules to the newer standard, i.e. Bus Wire Anderson to RCA Plug, Guide to Australia Specific Paint Codes, Cutting Guide for All Standard Modules, etc.
As the Worldwide Standard is updated more frequently than ours, we simply latch on using that as the primary source of guidance with our specific guides to assist and suppliment the modeller, to enable T Trak to grow in Australia and with Woodland Scenics and Kato now commercially manufacturing a kit to the world wide standard, now is a great time to Migrate across to a unified standard
This is a radical concept on its own, but after having experienced Ntrak and Austrack Standards and the confusion and issues that has caused, T Trak should be simple and engaging for a novice modeller through to an advanced modeller. I have started building my new exhibition layout using the new standard and the sheer flexibility with having modules out to a Quad Module and varying depths has made this possible that would have been difficult with the Australian Guidelines.
Just my 2c worth as the T Trak Modeller and happy for this to be a collegiate discussion towards making T Trak in Australia even better and more accessable.
Cheers
Chris Maloney
Queanbeyan NSW / Perth WA
|
Guys,
We need to express concerns. We need to note the positives. We need to move forward. We need to do what suits Australian conditions. We need to consider flexibility. We need to update the Guidelines into whatever form will be appropriate going forward. We need to hear from T-TRAK users, especially those with local group involvement. We need to have mature discussions. We can't solve this overnight.
Graham
|
It would be appreciated if any member of this group could make some input into the Guidelines update.? The more views we have, the better we can understand how we should move forward.
Graham
|
Hi All
?
Many years ago I started using the then agreed Australian standards for module building.? I have never exhibited.? The one thing I like about the modules is the relative ease with which modules can be removed for maintenance.? Working under
a table is for the young and energetic.? Being able to turn the module over and fix issues is what has kept me to using modules.? Being able to take them to a suitable place for small demos is fantastic.? With what I have read so far I like the idea of the
Anderson Connectors.? They appear to be available in Australia at a reasonable price.? Part numbers would be useful to ensure the correct parts are used, there appear to be non-interchangeable alternatives in the range of connectors suggested, ie “Finger Proof”
and “Standard” housings.?
?
As for some of the module sizes suggested.? I agree with another who is happy with the “square” standard module. And build on multiples of that with the option of half sizes, as I have used due to personal space concerns.
?
My Conclusion – the “Australian T-TRAK-HO/OO Guidelines V 2.1” has worked well for me for nearly a decade. ?I hope that there are no major changes.
?
Separated by COVID-19 restrictions, Joined by Modern Technology.
John Milnes
Sent from for Windows 10
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Graham Cocks
Sent: Wednesday, 29 July 2020 9:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TTRAKAustraliaHOandNScales] 2020+ T-TRAK in Australia Guidelines
?
It would be appreciated if any member of this group could make some input into the Guidelines update.? The more views we have, the better we can understand how we should move forward.
Graham
|
Thanks Barry.
I think it is important to include comments like this to capture
learning from real life experience.
- Dave Mc.
On 28/07/2020 11:43 pm, bfi1900 via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My simple view on the American power standards are they are based
too much on the Kato plugs. Generic versions on these are very
difficult if not impossible to find in Aus. The local standard
that was developed before I started, which uses the rca plug has
never failed over 10 years plus exhibiting. The red ?and white is
cheap and simple. Buses for power mains appear to be the way both
the aus guideline and the usa ones are going, as long as mixed
users make converters everything will work.?
On size and depth, I disagree with most people. Keep them as
small as possible. In my racks of modules. It is mostly singles,
a few doubles and a couple of unique long ones. The larger
modules create inflexible arrangements, and exhibitions that
look the same. After 12 years of continuous exhibiting at
Sandown, ? Variety and changing displays is what keeps the
public impressed.?
Full depth modules are heavier and are less tolerant to
builder error when joined in big displays. They often jam with
neighbouring modules.?
2mm overhang on track At the end On a module ?never hurts a
big display . And that breaks the standard. Practical and simple
should always win over standards.
Individual layouts don’t need to follow standards at all,
that’s the beauty of modelling!
Barry Fisher ( Melbourne)?
?Christopher's original message that was
somehow deleted:
Hi All
As a builder / owner of new and older T Trak Modules,
I thought it would be worthwile putting forward a case
for a re-alignment of the T Trak Guidelines.
With the Worldwide standards document now being
updated and in some cases, ahead of the Australian
Guidelines, my suggestion would be to migrate over the
rest of 2020 and 1H 2021 to using the Worldwide
Standards and have a number of small guides of adapting
the previous modules to the newer standard, i.e. Bus
Wire Anderson to RCA Plug, Guide to Australia Specific
Paint Codes, Cutting Guide for All Standard Modules,
etc.
As the Worldwide Standard is updated more frequently
than ours, we simply latch on using that as the primary
source of guidance with our specific guides to assist
and suppliment the modeller, to enable T Trak to grow in
Australia and with Woodland Scenics and Kato now
commercially manufacturing a kit to the world wide
standard, now is a great time to Migrate across to a
unified standard
This is a radical concept on its own, but after having
experienced Ntrak and Austrack Standards and the
confusion and issues that has caused, T Trak should be
simple and engaging for a novice modeller through to an
advanced modeller. I have started building my new
exhibition layout using the new standard and the sheer
flexibility with having modules out to a Quad Module and
varying depths has made this possible that would have
been difficult with the Australian Guidelines.
Just my 2c worth as the T Trak Modeller and happy for
this to be a collegiate discussion towards making T Trak
in Australia even better and more accessable.
Cheers
Chris Maloney
Queanbeyan NSW / Perth WA
|
Thanks Barry
Appreciated for your feedback, I have a number of modules built to the current standard of 300mm depth and found they are restrictive with building large yards for Staging / Storage of Trains, hence why the newer US Standard T-Trak Document allows for the depth to be variable from 210mm through to 330mm, which allows narrowing or widening of modules.
As for Power Connectors, I saw an interesting proposal article of a further enhanced bus wiring that removes the Kato end connectors and has these spliced (soldered) onto the wires that use the 30a Anderson Power Poles, but noting that not every module will actually require direct powering. The other thing that the US Standard has is a 12v Accessory bus, which is handy for those modellers who which to use non kato track and turnouts and turnout motors / servos, or even using Arduino's to control a Day-Night Lighting sequence, which our current guidelines dont incorporate.
The reason I brought this up to commence an open discussion is about moving us, Australiam T-TRAK forward into a brighter future, as our own manual, which we can agree, is now behind the Worldwide / US Standard Documentation, and I was merely suggesting that we look to transistion to using that document as our base document and we have locally developed Australian Guides and / or Recommended Practices
?
As a User of a Modular Exhibition Layout, the best thing we ever did was migrate from RCA Plugs to Anderson Powerpoles, all of my own Exhibition Layouts (In Sn3.5 and N Scale) have all be converted and the best thing since buttered bread.
With my T Track Modules, all I have done is put a small notch in the rear bottom corner to allow the cables and andersons connectors to be exposed and that allows connection to my Bus Wire, but I also have provided each module a conversion cable to connect to other modules using the older RCA Standard. I think its all in how we approach it, noting that we will have the have a grandfather clause to allow time to enable a migration without undue stress on module owners.
Love the discussions and look forward to hearing more comments, feedback :-)
Cheers
Chris
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 06:37 PM, Dave wrote:
Thanks Barry.
I think it is important to include comments like this to capture learning from real life experience.
- Dave Mc.
On 28/07/2020 11:43 pm, bfi1900 via groups.io wrote:
My simple view on the American power standards are they are based too much on the Kato plugs. Generic versions on these are very difficult if not impossible to find in Aus. The local standard that was developed before I started, which uses the rca plug has never failed over 10 years plus exhibiting. The red ?and white is cheap and simple. Buses for power mains appear to be the way both the aus guideline and the usa ones are going, as long as mixed users make converters everything will work.?
?
On size and depth, I disagree with most people. Keep them as small as possible. In my racks of modules. It is mostly singles, a few doubles and a couple of unique long ones. The larger modules create inflexible arrangements, and exhibitions that look the same. After 12 years of continuous exhibiting at Sandown, ? Variety and changing displays is what keeps the public impressed.?
?
Full depth modules are heavier and are less tolerant to builder error when joined in big displays. They often jam with neighbouring modules.?
?
2mm overhang on track At the end On a module ?never hurts a big display . And that breaks the standard. Practical and simple should always win over standards.
Individual layouts don’t need to follow standards at all, that’s the beauty of modelling!
?
Barry Fisher ( Melbourne)?
Christopher's original message that was somehow deleted:
Hi All
As a builder / owner of new and older T Trak Modules, I thought it would be worthwile putting forward a case for a re-alignment of the T Trak Guidelines.
With the Worldwide standards document now being updated and in some cases, ahead of the Australian Guidelines, my suggestion would be to migrate over the rest of 2020 and 1H 2021 to using the Worldwide Standards and have a number of small guides of adapting the previous modules to the newer standard, i.e. Bus Wire Anderson to RCA Plug, Guide to Australia Specific Paint Codes, Cutting Guide for All Standard Modules, etc.
As the Worldwide Standard is updated more frequently than ours, we simply latch on using that as the primary source of guidance with our specific guides to assist and suppliment the modeller, to enable T Trak to grow in Australia and with Woodland Scenics and Kato now commercially manufacturing a kit to the world wide standard, now is a great time to Migrate across to a unified standard
This is a radical concept on its own, but after having experienced Ntrak and Austrack Standards and the confusion and issues that has caused, T Trak should be simple and engaging for a novice modeller through to an advanced modeller. I have started building my new exhibition layout using the new standard and the sheer flexibility with having modules out to a Quad Module and varying depths has made this possible that would have been difficult with the Australian Guidelines.
Just my 2c worth as the T Trak Modeller and happy for this to be a collegiate discussion towards making T Trak in Australia even better and more accessable.
Cheers
Chris Maloney
Queanbeyan NSW / Perth WA
|
Hello Folks,?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? As one of the people who put together the original Australian T-TRAK Guidelines it was a massive bit of work spread out over several months, most likely over a year. Any up-dates, modifications etc will be on a similar time frame. There is not only the issue what to alter/update/rephrase/ add etc, but how best to communicate that in text and in pictures. Not an easy task. As I am far removed from the exhibition/club setting of T-TRAK activity and I have also entered the borderline heresy/revolution of single track T-TRAK my ability/suitability of further input is rather limited. I would suggest that as suggestions and options are discussed try to keep to single threads of posts per topic. It will mean a bit more keyboard work, but it will also help keep track of what is being discussed. At the very least breaking your message into dot points with one point per subject will make discussion a lot better. In my current employment I do a lot work communicating complicated issues, dot points make it so much easier, especially when working with government departments!!
Cheers, Andrew George, St Arnaud. --
A & R George
argeorge@...
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, at 17:01, Chris Maloney wrote:
Hi David,?
Thanks for the feedback, I am aware of the history of some of these decisions and aware that our partners in US, I was updating my previous post by groups has removed it.... dunno, technical glitch I am going with!
The newer standard allows for a Quad Module which we dont currently have in our approved guidelines and the powerpole which you have advised, so our manual would need to incorporate that and then have cutting guides developed etc. My idea behind is that we, Australia, that is, move towards the universal manual now that it covers our and more, with us looking towards more specific guides, i.e. Paint Codes for Australian Paint Suppliers for T Trak, An RCA to Powerpole Adaptor Guide, etc. Cutting Guide for Australian Timber Sizes, those things to assist to modeller and we allow the World (US) to update the single manual, so what they do in the USA, Europe, Asia aligns with what we do here.
I have been in clubs that have done T Trak, NTrak, Austrack and many others, T-Trak Australian Manual was ahead of the US for many years, but we have recently fallen behind with the newer flexibilities that the US Manual offers us, as we can use 210 - 330 wide modules and up to a Quad Module I honestly believe that with the advances the US Manual has made in the last 9 months have been leaps and bounds and has now surpassed our manual.? My new exhibition layout is being built to the Worldwide Standard and the flexibility that has given me is head and shoulders past out manual, as if i conformed 100% to our manual, I would require 3 additional modules and would loose about 40% of scenic items that I can incorporate with the wider 330mm modules
My Suggestioon would to organise maybe a Zoom or Google Meets Session with the State Reps to commence this talking point and commence a working dialog to update this, as we are drafting bus wiring guides, lets go the whole hog and look at a future (2020+) of T-Trak in Australia
The Conversion to using the US Manual wont be popular initially, but we can risk mitigate that by providing viable options to allow the older modules to be interfaced electrically with new modules
As I said, my 2c worth and let the discussion continue
--
Andrew George of St Arnaud, Victoria.
|
Thank you, John.? This gives a little bit of insight into some practical aspects associated with T-TRAK-HO/OO.
Graham
|
Well, first I’m not Australian, but American, so just throwing my 2 cents southwards.
I have been around Ttrak since the early days and corresponded a lot with Lee Fitzgerald in the early days on some of the details on the module heights, depths, and construction. My background is exhibit design, so lots of work on presentation and perception by the viewers/visitors.
Ttrak really has a number of things going for it that are very different than most of the other display systems out there,
- the ability to do tiny dioramas well and have trains running thru them
- the ability to be really flexible with really few restrictions required to run together
- super approachable by newbies in money, time and little risk of failure
- a way to very quickly and easily play with others
- really suited well for the current young generations to get interested in model railroading and a hobby in general
The basic module box design got set off of the big brother ntrak and is not really visually suited for the old standard module sizes. My design friends cringe when I show them the standard box module. Standardizing front heights and color to try and hide this just ends up accentuating it. This is especially so with so many different scenes all packed together in very short one or two foot sections. Better to let go and not worry about module face heights and treatments. Let each be their own presentations, that’s where Ttrak shines. This hodgepodge crazy nature is different from ntrak and sectional presentation layouts where the scenes are big enough to take in a whole field of view for each module and the changes in scene tend to lessen as the are usually 3-6’ before the scene changes.
The flexibility of Ttrak is its great power as all you need to to to play with others is keep on the 310 multiple, keep your track separation at 33 or 25mm and be able to raise your module up to the group running track height! It really is simplicity in itself. You can even do ultra deep modules if you want to if you have a matching module to go behind it that’s skinny enough. You can bulge out the front if you want to as long as you can sit with table support ending 1.5” from the front track. You can even do off 310 length if you have a matching length module for the other side to make things line up. Just takes a little planning on the show setup to handle stuff like this. It’s this flexibility that lends Ttrak it’s unique place in visual design and presentation. It really gets folks imagining fun ideas they could do right away and this is what is great a getting new modelers into the hobby. Having modules more random in depth, front height and design also really helps hide the fairly boring track plans of simple loops. Over standardizing can really ruin all these features.
Newbies get pushed away when they are hit with a lot of requirements. Being accepting of creativity really helps. Younger generations need to be approached with the hobby in a different way now to get them interested. Many live in much smaller place and creativity and hobby are there but not in traditional ways. Ttrak has the ability to be done in a tiny space to work on a module, be displayed on a book shelf, and can cross over into the crafting and modeling worlds from traditional model railroading approaches. The ability to do really flexible and creative layouts for a temp “meetup” setup goes well with younger generations. Adding in arduino automation/animation and the like into modules is also another great crossover as well as 3D printing and lasercutting. So the more flexibility that is shown in ttrak standards the more Ttrak can be used as a great inroad for new modelers.
Electrical issues can usually get handled with some creative transition dongles when needed, so as long as you can get to the bus properly on the group layout you’re good. And since only a minority of modules need to have a power connection you can still play if your power doesn’t match, it’s just not a power drop module.
Variety, flexibility, and creativity are core to what makes Ttrak shine, just try to make sure guidelines don’t end up limiting them a lot. This really is about vive la différence!
Cheers,
Jeff
|
Thank you Jeff for those thoughts we need to keep in mind.
As you indicated, the flexibility of T-TRAK is its great power.? I think most users here want to retain its flexiblity.? With DCC becoming in greater use and the need for a Bus for the larger display layouts, we now need to update our guidelines to cover these aspects and also other aspects that have crept in to the standards.? All input at this stage is going to be most welcome as it will help wiith directions we need to consider for the future.
Graham
|
Graham,
I'm from the US and looking to build my own HO T-Trak modules. Since you discussing standardizing the standards so we have a universal one, has it been discussed about making the setback distance the same between both standards? I believe the AUS is 75mm and USA is 83mm.
Thanks,
Barry Rosier Model Railroading University
Model Railroading Live Team Member NMRA Member #159585 0A
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:41 PM Graham Cocks < gjlcocks@...> wrote: It would be appreciated if any member of this group could make some input into the Guidelines update.? The more views we have, the better we can understand how we should move forward.
Graham
|
Hi Barry,
When the Aussie HO T-TRAK standard was set, back in 2009, a developing standard in the USA (Lubbock Model Railroad Association) had set a setback of 3 1/8", which was close to both 75mm and 80mm. We decided on 75mm. Subsequently, in the USA, the standard must have been agreed to be 3 1/4" (83mm).
At this stage we are currently working on updating our N scale guidelines. We can then review the HO scale guidelines and update as required.
To enable us to discuss standardization, could you refer us to a contact person in the USA who is associated with setting the standards in the USA for HO T-TRAK.
Thank you for raising this issue.
Graham
|
Graham,
You are quite welcome. I've asked Vic McTee, who is the admin of the T-Trak-HO facebook page, to point me in the right direction. Once I hear back from him I'll let you know.
Barry Rosier Model Railroading University
Model Railroading Live Team Member NMRA Member #159585 0A
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:28 AM Graham Cocks < gjlcocks@...> wrote: Hi Barry,
When the Aussie HO T-TRAK standard was set, back in 2009, a developing standard in the USA (Lubbock Model Railroad Association) had set a setback of 3 1/8", which was close to both 75mm and 80mm. We decided on 75mm. Subsequently, in the USA, the standard must have been agreed to be 3 1/4" (83mm).
At this stage we are currently working on updating our N scale guidelines. We can then review the HO scale guidelines and update as required.
To enable us to discuss standardization, could you refer us to a contact person in the USA who is associated with setting the standards in the USA for HO T-TRAK.
Thank you for raising this issue.
Graham
|
All,
Having just reread the North American T-TRAK? Organization Standards and?Recommended Practices?for a second time, I'm basically happy to accept of the document, except for Section 6 and a couple of other minor points, as it basically allows us (Australia) to continue to do what we have been doing. However, where Australia and America differ, and differ substantially, is in our approaches to powering modules ("Module Connectors") and layouts ("Buses"). Consequently, I feel that the only part of concern about adoption of the American Standard is whether Australia?it should adopt Section 6, Electrical Standards, or have our own approach.
For my two penneth worth, I will support Australia adopting?the proposed Bus Wiring Guidelines on the Australian T-Trak website. These guidelines would then be the Australian norm at layouts where modules from multiple modellers are joined together. What bus system(s) a modeller uses at home is their concern but would strongly suggest following the Australian guidelines anyhow.
For powering individual modules, modellers can do as they wish re module wiring and module connectors so long as they a) follow the BWWB requirements for power to the tracks; and b) provide suitable inter-connectors between their module connectors and the layout bus.
Rob Leach
T-Traker
Victorian N Scale Collective
|
Hi Rob,
Thank you for your thoughts.
As you indicated, there would only be small variations on some minor points, but the Electrical section would be of most concern.
The North American T-TRAK Standards seem to be volatile at present, especially the Electrical section. As a first step, we in Australia could make a recommendation to their Standards committee. I believe that thoughts from Australia re T-TRAK are appreciated. Depending on how this is accepted would determine what we would recommend in Australia.
Graham
|
Good Evening,
The Australian Guidelines have never restricted module sizes that I have constructed, there are currently 62 in my layout though only a handful have varied from the 300mm depth. We just need to be careful that "Standards" don't become restrictive because they are standards and therefore must be followed.
Having invested heavily in setting up a robust track power supply based on the guidelines posted on the revamped Australian T-Trak site I won't be changing tack regardless of which direction the wiring takes as I know from practice what we are using in Melbourne at the moment works with little fuss.?
Regards,
Martin
Martin Watts
Neerim South
Victoria
Australia
|
Graham Cocks
bfi1900
Barry Rosier