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So,
What is the best (by value) place to buy a new recreational sail?

Adi

Adi,

I don't know off the top of my head... Last price I saw was around $250 for
a bonafide Sunfish sail. Sunfish sail clones can be a little less.

If someone hasn't researched it recently you'll probably have to search the
net a bit.


Wayne

Mariner Sails - a local sail loft - is offering to 'make' me a Sunfish
type sail for $175. I assume this will be plain white, with no Sunfish
logo. I've also seen a recreational sail for 'casual use only' being
offered by SailNet for $150. Are these good prices? What caveats might
there be in getting it done by a local sail loft?

My Original sail has sun damage, and although I have used sail tape on
the fairly long tears, I cannot imagine it will survive too long.

Thanks,
Adi


--- In sunfish_sailor@..., "Wayne Carney" <wcarney@f...>
wrote:

Adi,

I don't know off the top of my head... Last price I saw was around

$250 for

a bonafide Sunfish sail. Sunfish sail clones can be a little less.

If someone hasn't researched it recently you'll probably have to

search the

net a bit.


Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Aditya Garg [mailto:gaajar@y...]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 10:27 AM
To: sunfish_sailor@...
Subject: [sunfish_sailor] Sunfish parts


So,
What is the best (by value) place to buy a new recreational sail?

Adi

Hi Adi,

About the sail, Mark McQuillen, South Sails, out of
Indian Harbour Beach Florida makes a very nice sail.
He runs them on Ebay starting for $99 once and a
while, they usually end up in the $140 to $160 range
when the bidding is over. He retails them for $175,
$200 with a crash window. Nice sail good fit.
southsailsflorida.com

Jeff

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Adi,

Just ran across some specials at National Sail. They have a variety of
colored sails for $185.




Wayne

Thanks for all the pointers guys. I have one more question: Is the
sail cloth quality better for the official Sunfish sail (North Sails?)
as compared to the other vendors.

Thanks,
Adi

--- In sunfish_sailor@..., "Wayne Carney" <wcarney@f...>
wrote:

Adi,

Just ran across some specials at National Sail. They have a variety

of

colored sails for $185.




Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Aditya Garg [mailto:gaajar@y...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 8:41 AM
To: sunfish_sailor@...
Subject: [sunfish_sailor] Re: Sunfish parts


Mariner Sails - a local sail loft - is offering to 'make' me a

Sunfish

type sail for $175. I assume this will be plain white, with no

Sunfish

logo. I've also seen a recreational sail for 'casual use only'

being

offered by SailNet for $150. Are these good prices? What caveats

might

there be in getting it done by a local sail loft?

My Original sail has sun damage, and although I have used sail

tape on

the fairly long tears, I cannot imagine it will survive too long.

Thanks,
Adi

Adi,

Is the sail cloth quality better for
the official Sunfish sail (North Sails?)

In short, not necessarily. A good sailmaker will provide just as good a
sail.

I believe there are a couple of qualities to look at - Material, Cut, and
Workmanship. The official Sunfish sail specs are elusive. The material is no
doubt polyester in the 3.6 oz to 4.0 oz range. That would be typical for
small boat sails. The cut might be patented so unofficial sails may have to
be slightly different. Look at the exact square footage for a quick
comparison. Workmanship will be a matter of inspection when you get a sail.

From what I know about basic sail technology I believe the material in the
"official" sail is most likely polyester. Nylon was a popular sail material
before polyesters came on the scene and is still used today for jibs and
inexpensive mainsails. However, Nylon looses it's stiffness quickly, absorbs
water (gets heavy when wet), and also expands when wet (changing it's
shape). It is lighter and more supple than polyester - why it's popular for
jib material, but not desirable for mainsails any longer. I recommend shying
away from nylon even if it makes the price a bit less.

"Dacron" is the DuPont trade name for a variety of polyester widely used in
sails. Sailcloth is tightly woven and has a coating that functions to help
it maintain fiber alignment and keep the surface uniform. Look for these
qualities. Any good sail will be made with thread that has a UV inhibitor
added at the time the polymer was formulated. It may also have an additional
UV coating. Look for UV resistant materials. The length of the sailmaker's
warranty can be one indicator for degree of UV protection as well as the
workmanship.


Keep us posted on what you find,

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Aditya Garg [mailto:gaajar@...]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:33 AM
To: sunfish_sailor@...
Subject: [sunfish_sailor] Re: Sunfish parts


Thanks for all the pointers guys. I have one more question: Is the
sail cloth quality better for the official Sunfish sail (North Sails?)
as compared to the other vendors.

Thanks,
Adi

Dear Adi,

If you're only going to be sailing recreationally and won't be racing, then
any "knockoff" sail you buy will likely serve you long and strong. I have
sails in my garage that are 2, 5, 10, 15 and 20 and more years old. The
only thing that has truly worn a Sunfish sail to the point that they won't
make a Sunfish go is their having been left on a deck in the sun all summer,
stored someplace where mice/squirrels/etc. could get at them, or other
horrendous storage incidents occurred. It takes years and years of sailing
in big breezes (not likely in North America) to truly wear out a Sunfish
sail to the point that it disintegrates. The first racing sail I bought I
sailed hard and frequently for over nine years and it will still make a boat
go for many years. It just didn't have the shape and became porous (as all
sailcloth does) that new sails do ...

A recreational sail will easily give you 20 years of service if you take
good care of it--keep it covered when on the road, store it where it will be
kept dry, clean and unbothered by vermin, and loaded and tied in a way when
you travel that vibration doesn't put holes in the material. Occasionally
you may have an incident which causes a tear, but for a day-sailed boat, any
sailmaker can make a quick patch and it will not materially affect your
enjoyment. So, at that rate, if you buy a knockoff recreational sail for,
say, $200, then for approximately $10 a year you will have sail power. I
always recommend that you simply GO SAILING!

This points to your being able to go out and get a sail which is made with
modern materials, as they will hold up well, get your boat together and hit
the water. If you don't want to buy a commercially made sailbag, 44-45"
material (I recommend a heavy polyester, not canvas, as canvas molds when it
gets wet), 16-1/3 feet long, folded over and sewn into a tube (with a 5/8"
seam allowance) with one end closed makes an inexpensive sail cover for on
the road. Tie it closed securely. If you can put in a sleeve and feed the
rope through the sleeve at that second end of the bag and pull it shut and
tie it shut that way, well, then you're a pro! Check the sale rack at the
material store for heavy, ugly, polyester or other material that won't hold
water, will dry quickly and won't rot. Doesn't matter what color/pattern it
is so long as it will protect your sail, gaff, boom and mast. That way,
too, you have one handy unit for tying to your rooftop or trailer and for
storing wherever it is you store that part of your set up.

When you go to roll up your sail you can leave it on the boom and gaff.
Pull all of the sail to the port side of the boat/boom/gaff. Keeping the
boom and gaff tips together, pull the sail out taught at the end of the sail
(makes sail in half). Start rolling from that point of the sail, keeping it
flat, so you end up with a 3rd small tube--the boom, the gaff and the sail.
Double check to make sure that the sail is not at all fouled on the
gooseneck to avoid holes being worn from sharp points on the gooseneck while
stored in the sailbag. I leave my halyard through the tip of the mast and
keep the mast in the gooseneck hole. I coil the halyard so it is snug to
the tip of the mast to keep that mast in that position, just in case the bag
opens on the road (keeps you from losing the mast, I know people it has
happened to).

If you ever think you will end up racing, you would eventually end up buying
a Racing sail (from a dealer, only way to get them, built by North but only
available through dealer network). But, don't get the racing sail now to
learn and practice with. An inexpensive copy will suit you just fine.
There are quite a few sailmakers who make generic type lateen-rig sails.
The colored recreational sails sold by Vanguard are not all cut to the
racing sail pattern, either, though if they have the "racing approved"
sticker on them from Vanguard/North, then they are legal. The Vanguard rec
sails (and all their predecessors) are 7-12% smaller than the Vanguard/North
racing sails. I can't say whether it's worth extra money to get an
"official" sail or not, though my guess would be that it is not.

This likely is more information than you ever wanted to know about Sunfish
sails.

Get that boat together and go sailing! Good luck.

Sincerely,

Gail
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~

That is a lot of information. All of it useful. Thank you very much
for the insight.

Adi

--- In sunfish_sailor@..., "Gail M. Turluck"
<turluck@c...> wrote:

Dear Adi,

If you're only going to be sailing recreationally and won't be

racing, then

any "knockoff" sail you buy will likely serve you long and strong.

I have

sails in my garage that are 2, 5, 10, 15 and 20 and more years old.

The

only thing that has truly worn a Sunfish sail to the point that they

won't

make a Sunfish go is their having been left on a deck in the sun all

summer,

stored someplace where mice/squirrels/etc. could get at them, or

other

horrendous storage incidents occurred. It takes years and years of

sailing

in big breezes (not likely in North America) to truly wear out a

Sunfish

sail to the point that it disintegrates. The first racing sail I

bought I

sailed hard and frequently for over nine years and it will still

make a boat

go for many years. It just didn't have the shape and became porous

(as all

sailcloth does) that new sails do ...

A recreational sail will easily give you 20 years of service if you

take

good care of it--keep it covered when on the road, store it where it

will be

kept dry, clean and unbothered by vermin, and loaded and tied in a

way when

you travel that vibration doesn't put holes in the material.

Occasionally

you may have an incident which causes a tear, but for a day-sailed

boat, any

sailmaker can make a quick patch and it will not materially affect

your

enjoyment. So, at that rate, if you buy a knockoff recreational

sail for,

say, $200, then for approximately $10 a year you will have sail

power. I

always recommend that you simply GO SAILING!

This points to your being able to go out and get a sail which is

made with

modern materials, as they will hold up well, get your boat together

and hit

the water. If you don't want to buy a commercially made sailbag,

44-45"

material (I recommend a heavy polyester, not canvas, as canvas molds

when it

gets wet), 16-1/3 feet long, folded over and sewn into a tube (with

a 5/8"

seam allowance) with one end closed makes an inexpensive sail cover

for on

the road. Tie it closed securely. If you can put in a sleeve and

feed the

rope through the sleeve at that second end of the bag and pull it

shut and

tie it shut that way, well, then you're a pro! Check the sale rack

at the

material store for heavy, ugly, polyester or other material that

won't hold

water, will dry quickly and won't rot. Doesn't matter what

color/pattern it

is so long as it will protect your sail, gaff, boom and mast. That

way,

too, you have one handy unit for tying to your rooftop or trailer

and for

storing wherever it is you store that part of your set up.

When you go to roll up your sail you can leave it on the boom and

gaff.

Pull all of the sail to the port side of the boat/boom/gaff.

Keeping the

boom and gaff tips together, pull the sail out taught at the end of

the sail

(makes sail in half). Start rolling from that point of the sail,

keeping it

flat, so you end up with a 3rd small tube--the boom, the gaff and

the sail.

Double check to make sure that the sail is not at all fouled on the
gooseneck to avoid holes being worn from sharp points on the

gooseneck while

stored in the sailbag. I leave my halyard through the tip of the

mast and

keep the mast in the gooseneck hole. I coil the halyard so it is

snug to

the tip of the mast to keep that mast in that position, just in case

the bag

opens on the road (keeps you from losing the mast, I know people it

has

happened to).

If you ever think you will end up racing, you would eventually end

up buying

a Racing sail (from a dealer, only way to get them, built by North

but only

available through dealer network). But, don't get the racing sail

now to

learn and practice with. An inexpensive copy will suit you just

fine.

There are quite a few sailmakers who make generic type lateen-rig

sails.

The colored recreational sails sold by Vanguard are not all cut to

the

racing sail pattern, either, though if they have the "racing

approved"

sticker on them from Vanguard/North, then they are legal. The

Vanguard rec

sails (and all their predecessors) are 7-12% smaller than the

Vanguard/North

racing sails. I can't say whether it's worth extra money to get an
"official" sail or not, though my guess would be that it is not.

This likely is more information than you ever wanted to know about

Sunfish

sails.

Get that boat together and go sailing! Good luck.

Sincerely,

Gail
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
Gail M. Turluck
ISCA Masters Coordinator
USSCA Masters Coordinator
~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~~~/)~~~/)~~~~/)~
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Carney [mailto:wcarney@f...]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:31 PM
To: sunfish_sailor@...
Subject: RE: [sunfish_sailor] Re: Sunfish parts


Adi,

Is the sail cloth quality better for
the official Sunfish sail (North Sails?)

In short, not necessarily. A good sailmaker will provide just as

good a

sail.

I believe there are a couple of qualities to look at - Material,

Cut, and

Workmanship. The official Sunfish sail specs are elusive. The

material is no

doubt polyester in the 3.6 oz to 4.0 oz range. That would be typical

for

small boat sails. The cut might be patented so unofficial sails may

have to

be slightly different. Look at the exact square footage for a quick
comparison. Workmanship will be a matter of inspection when you get

a sail.

From what I know about basic sail technology I believe the material

in the

"official" sail is most likely polyester. Nylon was a popular sail

material

before polyesters came on the scene and is still used today for jibs

and

inexpensive mainsails. However, Nylon looses it's stiffness quickly,

absorbs

water (gets heavy when wet), and also expands when wet (changing

it's

shape). It is lighter and more supple than polyester - why it's

popular for

jib material, but not desirable for mainsails any longer. I

recommend shying

away from nylon even if it makes the price a bit less.

"Dacron" is the DuPont trade name for a variety of polyester widely

used in

sails. Sailcloth is tightly woven and has a coating that functions

to help

it maintain fiber alignment and keep the surface uniform. Look for

these

qualities. Any good sail will be made with thread that has a UV

inhibitor

added at the time the polymer was formulated. It may also have an

additional

UV coating. Look for UV resistant materials. The length of the

sailmaker's

warranty can be one indicator for degree of UV protection as well as

the

workmanship.


Keep us posted on what you find,

Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: Aditya Garg [mailto:gaajar@y...]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:33 AM
To: sunfish_sailor@...
Subject: [sunfish_sailor] Re: Sunfish parts


Thanks for all the pointers guys. I have one more question: Is the
sail cloth quality better for the official Sunfish sail (North

Sails?)

as compared to the other vendors.

Thanks,
Adi

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