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sunfish floatation

 

I don't believe adding foam of any kind inside the spars helps, and probably hurts, floatation, as you are displacing air with... less air and?
weight. unless your spars leak very badly.... adding noodles or floats to the outside of the spars do add floatation, since none is subtracted.

 

Thanks Mike for putting some common sense into this thread; filling the spars with foam is not a good idea.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Goldstein <goldstem@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, May 18, 2020 12:21 pm
Subject: [SunfishSailor] sunfish floatation

I don't believe adding foam of any kind inside the spars helps, and probably hurts, floatation, as you are displacing air with... less air and?
weight. unless your spars leak very badly.... adding noodles or floats to the outside of the spars do add floatation, since none is subtracted.

 

I suppose you could always use the 2-part flotation foam sold for adding flotation to boats.? Though that's significantly more expensive than the hardware store?stuff.


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:25 PM Jacob via <Donkersloo=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Mike for putting some common sense into this thread; filling the spars with foam is not a good idea.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Goldstein <goldstem@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, May 18, 2020 12:21 pm
Subject: [SunfishSailor] sunfish floatation

I don't believe adding foam of any kind inside the spars helps, and probably hurts, floatation, as you are displacing air with... less air and?
weight. unless your spars leak very badly.... adding noodles or floats to the outside of the spars do add floatation, since none is subtracted.

 

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Putting foam inside the mast/spars displaces water on a capsize? not air and could creaet a? “‘floating mast/spars”.? It is worth a try for those afraid they might turtle.? I have never turtled in any of my boats, but I do know that my Force 5 mast with untapeed seams filled with water and took all my 168 poinds to get it upright.? I had to stand on the tip of the CB and it took some time to lift that mast out of the water.? On the other had, ?the sunfish has the relatively short mast and is much easier.? It is still interesting to see if the mast can be made to float without Clorox bottles or foam noodles tied to the top.?

?

Mr Mike

?

Sent from for Windows 10

?

From: Mike Goldstein
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [SunfishSailor] sunfish floatation

?

I don't believe adding foam of any kind inside the spars helps, and probably hurts, floatation, as you are displacing air with... less air and?

weight. unless your spars leak very badly.... adding noodles or floats to the outside of the spars do add floatation, since none is subtracted.

?

?

DC9A7954259944E186FFF9648F672D30.png

 

On Monday, May 18, 2020 12:40:05 PM Michael King wrote:
Putting foam inside the mast/spars displaces water on a capsize not air
I agree with that.

I'd also caution about closed cell vsl open cell foam -- I don't know which
the hardware store type is, although in the short time I'd expect a mast to be
in the water it might not make a difference.
 

I just fill it with Helium :-)
Have a good day
Scott
 

Guys,
I don't understand this problem. If you capsize the boat and it turns turtle, you should never loose your mast or sail. Hopefully the boat was rigged with a halyard from the sail up thru the hole at the top of the mast and tied down on the cleat on the deck. If correctly secured, no mast or sail should be lost even if the mast comes out of its hole. Just another thought the boom should also be tied by the sheet to the traveler cable above the rudder. Be sure when your setting up to go sailing to put a figure 8 in your ropes at the end to prevent them from slipping thru your pulleys, eyes or any other holes the ropes could slip thru. This means the mast and sail are connected in two places.? Note to right a sailboat, never loosen the halyard from the deck or the sheet from the traveler.? No doodle needs to be attached to anything or mast filled with foam. Happy sailing?
Rick W. ?
 

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Hi, Rick,

That’s not the issue. ?We’re not worrying about losing stuff from failure to tether it. ?That’s its own separate problem. ?(And yes it’s a no-brainer but I did lose a rudder that way.)

The issue here is that righting a flat hull that’s gone upside down takes a whole lot more torque than righting a hull that’s still standing on edge. ?Not only because the hull is very stable upside down, but because the sail acts as a sea anchor as you swing it 90 degrees back up to the surface. And you may have to keep exerting that torque for a rather long moment because with its drag the sail comes up kind of sluggishly. ?And with the centerboard sticking straight up in the middle, you have a much less useful lever to use than if it’s sticking out horizontally where you can hang your weight straight down on it.

All of which can give pause to someone who’s not as strong as he used to be, and sometimes not as heavy either.

cm

On May 18, 2020, at 3:34 PM, ricwig@... wrote:

Guys,
I don't understand this problem. If you capsize the boat and it turns turtle, you should never loose your mast or sail. Hopefully the boat was rigged with a halyard from the sail up thru the hole at the top of the mast and tied down on the cleat on the deck. If correctly secured, no mast or sail should be lost even if the mast comes out of its hole. Just another thought the boom should also be tied by the sheet to the traveler cable above the rudder. Be sure when your setting up to go sailing to put a figure 8 in your ropes at the end to prevent them from slipping thru your pulleys, eyes or any other holes the ropes could slip thru. This means the mast and sail are connected in two places.? Note to right a sailboat, never loosen the halyard from the deck or the sheet from the traveler.? No doodle needs to be attached to anything or mast filled with foam. Happy sailing?
Rick W. ?

 

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(So we’re not concerned with whether the rig comes off and sinks to Davy Jones, we’re concerned with how to keep the mast head or sail peak from going under, so the boat isn’t allowed to turtle to begin with.)

cm

On May 19, 2020, at 11:19 AM, Crispin Miller <crispinmm@...> wrote:

Hi, Rick,

That’s not the issue. ?We’re not worrying about losing stuff from failure to tether it. ?That’s its own separate problem. ?(And yes it’s a no-brainer but I did lose a rudder that way.)

The issue here is that righting a flat hull that’s gone upside down takes a whole lot more torque than righting a hull that’s still standing on edge. ?Not only because the hull is very stable upside down, but because the sail acts as a sea anchor as you swing it 90 degrees back up to the surface. And you may have to keep exerting that torque for a rather long moment because with its drag the sail comes up kind of sluggishly. ?And with the centerboard sticking straight up in the middle, you have a much less useful lever to use than if it’s sticking out horizontally where you can hang your weight straight down on it.

All of which can give pause to someone who’s not as strong as he used to be, and sometimes not as heavy either.

cm

On May 18, 2020, at 3:34 PM, ricwig@... wrote:

Guys,
I don't understand this problem. If you capsize the boat and it turns turtle, you should never loose your mast or sail. Hopefully the boat was rigged with a halyard from the sail up thru the hole at the top of the mast and tied down on the cleat on the deck. If correctly secured, no mast or sail should be lost even if the mast comes out of its hole. Just another thought the boom should also be tied by the sheet to the traveler cable above the rudder. Be sure when your setting up to go sailing to put a figure 8 in your ropes at the end to prevent them from slipping thru your pulleys, eyes or any other holes the ropes could slip thru. This means the mast and sail are connected in two places.? Note to right a sailboat, never loosen the halyard from the deck or the sheet from the traveler.? No doodle needs to be attached to anything or mast filled with foam. Happy sailing?
Rick W. ?


 

Hello, I have been sailing Sunfishes for almost 60 years. Have capsized and turned turtle?innumerable times. That is all part of the fun. So long as all parts and spars are securely attached to to hull, there should not be a problem. I have capsized and righted many times without getting so my as my foot wet. I have?never done anything to prevent turning?turtle, but it seems to me that just tying a bunch of milk jugs to the top of the yard would work very well. It would be simple and free and quick and easy and quite effective. Certainly worth a try. Personally, I think that turning turtle can be fun, especially?when you right it and it comes back up with lots of mud on the spars and sail and it drips all over you. Then you just capsize again and it washes off. Thank, Jim?
 

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Jim,

If you been sailing Sunfishes for almost 60 years you must be close to me in age.? I appreciate your sense of humor with this turtling.? I think I have mine fixed now where it won’t turtle.? I like to keep mine up right.? In the summer there a lot of power boats zooming the ICW, so I like my sail on top where they can see me.? Sometimes I have to tack across the ICW and these boats are going fast and many cut right in front of me or right behind.? And a lot of them are drinking beer and have the stereo blasting and aren’t paying attention.? In the winter, without the boat traffic, I don’t want to go in the cold water, even with my drysuit.??? So I avoid capsizing and am likely a bit on the conservative side but I still ?love it nonetheless.

?

My Force 5 will likely get the Clorox bottle on the top of the mast.? The sail is sleeved and there is no good way to install a permanent float.? The capsize rate on the F5 is about three times the Sunfish.? And with that high aspect ratio sail it is much more difficult to right especially when the mast gets some water in it and the sail is under water.

?

Mr Mike

?

Sent from for Windows 10

?

From: James Sherwood
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 4:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: James M. Sherwood
Subject: Re: [SunfishSailor] sunfish floatation

?

Hello, I have been sailing Sunfishes for almost 60 years. Have capsized and turned turtle?innumerable times. That is all part of the fun. So long as all parts and spars are securely attached to to hull, there should not be a problem. I have capsized and righted many times without getting so my as my foot wet. I have?never done anything to prevent turning?turtle, but it seems to me that just tying a bunch of milk jugs to the top of the yard would work very well. It would be simple and free and quick and easy and quite effective. Certainly worth a try. Personally, I think that turning turtle can be fun, especially?when you right it and it comes back up with lots of mud on the spars and sail and it drips all over you. Then you just capsize again and it washes off. Thank, Jim?

?

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