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bogging


 

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?”
Sean G

Water in the air filter cannister.

Bob


Sent from DAS4X4


 

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Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage. ?Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes? ?We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

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I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition. ?I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via groups.io <brent.weide@...> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage. ?Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes? ?We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

Was the lean condition that burnt a valve cured? Sounds like it might be related to this bogging?

Is the fuel pump delivering enough pressure?
When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
The injectors could be clogged? Does your engine have a MAF or MAP sensor, with a MAF a vacuum leak will cause a lean condition

It's very hard to diagnose an issue over the internet with minimal information, you might have to describe what it's doing in a bit more detail


On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, 4:14?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition.? I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via <brent.weide=[email protected]> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage.? Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes?? We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

开云体育

Fuel pressure is unknown but pump is new 3 yrs ago and other cylinder spark plugs looked fine. MAP was replaced a yr ago with new. Fuel filter also replaced but worth checking do Ill put it on the list. Plug wires also replaced with oem last yr. The injectors were checked when new head was replaced 2 wks ago. .I have no codes that I haven’t had since original install in 2001 ( evap gas tank code and knock sensor). I know knock sensor has a short somewhere in the wire and I run 91 octane to avoid knocking. Note that I had 10 yrs of trouble free running with those codes. I think I will plan on running a new wire for knock sensor.
I might pull the whole harness out and send it to SC along with ecu to have it checked.

Uggggg

SeanG?

On Dec 16, 2024, at 5:40?PM, Robin Tapir via groups.io <robintapir@...> wrote:

?

Was the lean condition that burnt a valve cured? Sounds like it might be related to this bogging?

Is the fuel pump delivering enough pressure?
When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
The injectors could be clogged? Does your engine have a MAF or MAP sensor, with a MAF a vacuum leak will cause a lean condition

It's very hard to diagnose an issue over the internet with minimal information, you might have to describe what it's doing in a bit more detail


On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, 4:14?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition.? I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via <brent.weide=[email protected]> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage.? Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes?? We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

开云体育

I have a Scan Gauge on my laptop. I can get live data while I drive. Is there anyone on the list that could tell me if any values /data I get could be suspect ? Like O2(pre cat), advance, etc… ?temp looks normal at 180…?

I just drove it cold this morning, terrible lack of power/bogging throttle at light to medium pedal push. However aggressive pedal push would accelerate good, lots of power , felt like it should. ?

Thats all for now?

On Dec 17, 2024, at 8:21?AM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:

?Fuel pressure is unknown but pump is new 3 yrs ago and other cylinder spark plugs looked fine. MAP was replaced a yr ago with new. Fuel filter also replaced but worth checking do Ill put it on the list. Plug wires also replaced with oem last yr. The injectors were checked when new head was replaced 2 wks ago. .I have no codes that I haven’t had since original install in 2001 ( evap gas tank code and knock sensor). I know knock sensor has a short somewhere in the wire and I run 91 octane to avoid knocking. Note that I had 10 yrs of trouble free running with those codes. I think I will plan on running a new wire for knock sensor.
I might pull the whole harness out and send it to SC along with ecu to have it checked.

Uggggg

SeanG?

On Dec 16, 2024, at 5:40?PM, Robin Tapir via groups.io <robintapir@...> wrote:

?

Was the lean condition that burnt a valve cured? Sounds like it might be related to this bogging?

Is the fuel pump delivering enough pressure?
When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
The injectors could be clogged? Does your engine have a MAF or MAP sensor, with a MAF a vacuum leak will cause a lean condition

It's very hard to diagnose an issue over the internet with minimal information, you might have to describe what it's doing in a bit more detail


On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, 4:14?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition.? I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via <brent.weide=[email protected]> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage.? Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes?? We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

Update, as engine reached a good operating temperature, I experienced (city driving, stop and go) 3xtreme bucking, stalling at lights, surging low idle at lights, popping sound during acceleration between 1-2-3rd.

?~ Sean G


On Tuesday, December 17, 2024 at 10:13:30 AM MST, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:


I have a Scan Gauge on my laptop. I can get live data while I drive. Is there anyone on the list that could tell me if any values /data I get could be suspect ? Like O2(pre cat), advance, etc… ?temp looks normal at 180…?

I just drove it cold this morning, terrible lack of power/bogging throttle at light to medium pedal push. However aggressive pedal push would accelerate good, lots of power , felt like it should. ?

Thats all for now?

On Dec 17, 2024, at 8:21?AM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:

?
Fuel pressure is unknown but pump is new 3 yrs ago and other cylinder spark plugs looked fine. MAP was replaced a yr ago with new. Fuel filter also replaced but worth checking do Ill put it on the list. Plug wires also replaced with oem last yr. The injectors were checked when new head was replaced 2 wks ago. .I have no codes that I haven’t had since original install in 2001 ( evap gas tank code and knock sensor). I know knock sensor has a short somewhere in the wire and I run 91 octane to avoid knocking. Note that I had 10 yrs of trouble free running with those codes. I think I will plan on running a new wire for knock sensor.
I might pull the whole harness out and send it to SC along with ecu to have it checked.

Uggggg

SeanG?

On Dec 16, 2024, at 5:40?PM, Robin Tapir via groups.io <robintapir@...> wrote:

?

Was the lean condition that burnt a valve cured? Sounds like it might be related to this bogging?

Is the fuel pump delivering enough pressure?
When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
The injectors could be clogged? Does your engine have a MAF or MAP sensor, with a MAF a vacuum leak will cause a lean condition

It's very hard to diagnose an issue over the internet with minimal information, you might have to describe what it's doing in a bit more detail


On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, 4:14?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition.? I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via <brent.weide=[email protected]> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage.? Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes?? We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

Certainly sounds like it could be running lean, what's the long term fuel trim and front o2 sensor read with your scan gauge??

If it's not a fueling issue or the o2 sensor is borked and it thinks the lean condition is stoich, you'll see the reading oscillate around 0.5v and fuel trim will be close to zero.

If the o2 sensor is fine and it knows it's running lean but it's already added as much fuel as it's allowed to via fuel trim, you'll see the o2 reading pegged below 0.5v indicating a lean condition (over 0.5v is rich) and the trim will be more like +20% (or whatever it's limited to)

Try unplugging the o2 sensor and if it runs fine in open loop you know its bad.. this will set a code. I'm assuming it wasn't already showing any codes.

It'd be worth quickly checking the ignition coil/s, leads and valve cover gasket as it very well might be misfiring under load... What do the spark plugs look like? If it's running lean I'd expect them all to be white.. if it's a misfire they'd be black and damp



On Wed, 18 Dec 2024, 2:21?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
Fuel pressure is unknown but pump is new 3 yrs ago and other cylinder spark plugs looked fine. MAP was replaced a yr ago with new. Fuel filter also replaced but worth checking do Ill put it on the list. Plug wires also replaced with oem last yr. The injectors were checked when new head was replaced 2 wks ago. .I have no codes that I haven’t had since original install in 2001 ( evap gas tank code and knock sensor). I know knock sensor has a short somewhere in the wire and I run 91 octane to avoid knocking. Note that I had 10 yrs of trouble free running with those codes. I think I will plan on running a new wire for knock sensor.
I might pull the whole harness out and send it to SC along with ecu to have it checked.

Uggggg

SeanG?

On Dec 16, 2024, at 5:40?PM, Robin Tapir via <robintapir=[email protected]> wrote:

?

Was the lean condition that burnt a valve cured? Sounds like it might be related to this bogging?

Is the fuel pump delivering enough pressure?
When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
The injectors could be clogged? Does your engine have a MAF or MAP sensor, with a MAF a vacuum leak will cause a lean condition

It's very hard to diagnose an issue over the internet with minimal information, you might have to describe what it's doing in a bit more detail


On Tue, 17 Dec 2024, 4:14?am SEAN GARRETT via , <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:
I lost a valve on cyl 3. Big chunk out of it. My mechanic said it was due to lean running condition.? I have had a persistent bogging issue for almost 2 yrs and unable to solve it here in Phoenix. There are competent mechanics here but they can’t seem to find it. Also was discovered that alt was charging at 15v, took 2 alternators to get one charging at 14 max. AND the starter had a short in it /parasitic drain. So here i am tired of a van that sucks me dry (5600) for this repair… I need to get this bog issue fixed or sell my syncro.

On Dec 15, 2024, at 5:22?PM, Brent Weide via <brent.weide=[email protected]> wrote:

?Hey Sean.
Sadly, we can’t just point to one cause.
My first choice (and easiest to resolve) would be the accelerator linkage.? Make sure everything’s moving smoothly and the cable is taut.
If your engine is audibly gasping when accelerating then you’re into the area of checking for vacuum leaks, fuel delivery, and spark delivery.
Are you getting any codes?? We might need a bit more information for this one.

Best,
Brent

On Dec 15, 2024, at 1:29?PM, SEAN GARRETT via <doit.outdoors=[email protected]> wrote:

What is bogging (at the pedal) caused by... rich or lean condition ?

Sean G
87 Syncro, 2000 2.5 SC conversion


 

Seems the bogging starts with a warm engine. Check the coolant temp sensor. Knock sensor is also critical to smooth engine operation, sort that out also.

Todd


 

Bogging happens warm or cold. Just more evident when warm. Its not coolant sensor. Been replaced 2 yrs ago and is reading correctly.

Sean G


On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 08:31:41 AM MST, Richard Lamb via groups.io <rllamb_99@...> wrote:


Seems the bogging starts with a warm engine. Check the coolant temp sensor. Knock sensor is also critical to smooth engine operation, sort that out also.

Todd