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The generic tach I installed has a red led that illuminates at 5000 RPM.? ?What are healthy RPM ranges for this engine?
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself)
It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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Iirc the ECU on the 2.5 cuts the throttle at 5,500 RPM
Appropriate?? That depends on many things.
On mine w.a taller 4th 215/75/15s, towing a trailer in flat TX at at an elevation under 1,000 ft it seemed happiest at 3,200 RPM winch, iirc, was 72 mph.
The generic tach I installed has a red led that illuminates at 5000 RPM.? ?What are healthy RPM ranges for this engine?
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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The tachometers for a 1992 Legacy listed on ebay redline at 6500 RPM. Several tachs are listed.
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thanks.? ? 5k is a bunch lower than 6.5k.? ?it's nice to see that .? is it unhealthy for this?ej22 to spend a while, say downshifted on an uphill with a heavy load, at 5k or 5.5k??? On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 7:19?AM Richard Lamb via <rllamb_99= [email protected]> wrote: The tachometers for a 1992 Legacy listed on ebay redline at 6500 RPM. Several tachs are listed.
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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I was told by steve at S&S performance that I abused my EJ22/25 Frankenmotor he built by running it up a grade at 4000-4500 rpm for 2 minutes or so, causing it to spin a bearing and throw a rod after he refused to honor his warranty.?
So take that for what it¡¯s worth.?
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On May 17, 2024, at 9:59?AM, Eric Freudenthal <eric@...> wrote:
? thanks.? ? 5k is a bunch lower than 6.5k.? ?it's nice to see that .? is it unhealthy for this?ej22 to spend a while, say downshifted on an uphill with a heavy load, at 5k or 5.5k??? On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 7:19?AM Richard Lamb via <rllamb_99= [email protected]> wrote: The tachometers for a 1992 Legacy listed on ebay redline at 6500 RPM. Several tachs are listed.
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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That certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the S&S motor, which we have in our 85. There is a short steep hill locally that I run up in 1st gear (we have an automatic w/ 3.27 R&P) around 4000-4500 rpm.
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a stock 4spd is at about 4200 at highway?speeds....which I have?done for thousands of miles. Andy Vanis USA and Whatsapp +1(505) 304-5306
On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 12:46?PM Joe Bagadonuts via <clashcity1974= [email protected]> wrote: That certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the S&S motor, which we have in our 85. There is a short steep hill locally that I run up in 1st gear (we have an automatic w/ 3.27 R&P) around 4000-4500 rpm.
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I have a whole write up on the samba about my experience you can find if you search S&S performance¡ended up going a different route with a JDM engine after he blew up my phone and left me a nasty voicemail and text after I shared my experience.?
But yea, apparently that kind of driving constitutes ¡°abuse,¡± so just keep that in mind.?
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On May 17, 2024, at 12:46?PM, Joe Bagadonuts <clashcity1974@...> wrote:
?That certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the S&S motor, which we have in our 85. There is a short steep hill locally that I run up in 1st gear (we have an automatic w/ 3.27 R&P) around 4000-4500 rpm.
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I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
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So. I won¡¯t know until something bad happens or if I put 100k miles on my SS motor. But I have spent time at the shop and I feel comfortable with Steve¡¯s skill set . ( a rip-off artist doesn¡¯t invite you into
his cleanroom to watch him work) .
?
Does anyone think 4000 k RPM is abuse on a EJ22 ??? ?. not me .The Subaru tach redline way above 4k RPM .
4K that was my shift point on the original VW and I¡¯ve kept that habit with both my EJ conversions .
?
first one lasted more than 110 k miles without a internal rebuild and it had 111k miles when I transplanted.
?
On the latest transplant I purposely short shifted at 3k RPM the first 1k miles ( oil & filter change at 200 & 1000 miles.)
?
Now I shift @ 4K
?
Steve builds off road racing motors, he knows a thing or two about high RPM.
?
I don¡¯t know Connor and I feel bad for his experience but I suspect there is more to the story.
I will share what happens to me but so far I am happy with 2.5 k miles ( no long trip or real ?mountains yet !) .
?
M
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Joe Bagadonuts via groups.io
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2024 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SubaruVanagon] what rpm range is appropriate for my '92 NA ej22? (in my 1981 4sp westy)
?
I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
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Thanks for the added insight Dr Mark.
We drove the entire east to west climbing stretch CA Hwy 4 (Ebbets Pass) in first gear (automatic). Not turning 4k the whole time but certainly on the steep parts of which there are many,
The previous owner had the motor built by SS and installed by a shop in San Diego. So far no troubles in about 30k total miles since install. I do not see the 20+ mpg that others report with the Subaru swap even with the highway flyer gearing but it is fun to drive which is maybe the issue there.
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If you drive over 65 mph the MPG benefits are lost . just imagine the impact of strapping a sheet of plywood to the front of a regular subaru .. ?
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Joe Bagadonuts via groups.io
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2024 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SubaruVanagon] what rpm range is appropriate for my '92 NA ej22? (in my 1981 4sp westy)
?
Thanks for the added insight Dr Mark.
We drove the entire east to west climbing stretch CA Hwy 4 (Ebbets Pass) in first gear (automatic). Not turning 4k the whole time but certainly on the steep parts of which there are many,
The previous owner had the motor built by SS and installed by a shop in San Diego. So far no troubles in about 30k total miles since install. I do not see the 20+ mpg that others report with the Subaru swap even with the highway flyer gearing but it is fun
to drive which is maybe the issue there.
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Running the same speeds at lower RPM is abusive. It requires more torque/effort, more throttle to run an engine under load at a lower RPM. Most Subaru engines have their peak torque & efficiency over 4000 RPM anyway. You are doing nothing any favors by over-gearing these vans to run highway speeds at low revs.
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?I¡¯m only passing on what I was told by Steve after my failure. On my JDM, I will only occasionally spend several seconds over 4k rpm before shifting up because of what he told me about how I had abused my engine and caused it to fail. I generally cruise at 3400-3600 and get 20-24mpg all day in a fully loaded Westy depending on terrain and wind direction/speed.?
I¡¯m not going to get any further off topic regarding S&S, I¡¯m sure he has had many happy customers. Unfortunately, I don¡¯t fall into that category.?
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On May 17, 2024, at 1:00?PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?
So. I won¡¯t know until something bad happens or if I put 100k miles on my SS motor. But I have spent time at the shop and I feel comfortable with Steve¡¯s skill set . ( a rip-off artist doesn¡¯t invite you into
his cleanroom to watch him work) .
?
Does anyone think 4000 k RPM is abuse on a EJ22 ??? ?. not me .The Subaru tach redline way above 4k RPM .
4K that was my shift point on the original VW and I¡¯ve kept that habit with both my EJ conversions .
?
first one lasted more than 110 k miles without a internal rebuild and it had 111k miles when I transplanted.
?
On the latest transplant I purposely short shifted at 3k RPM the first 1k miles ( oil & filter change at 200 & 1000 miles.)
?
Now I shift @ 4K
?
Steve builds off road racing motors, he knows a thing or two about high RPM.
?
I don¡¯t know Connor and I feel bad for his experience but I suspect there is more to the story.
I will share what happens to me but so far I am happy with 2.5 k miles ( no long trip or real ?mountains yet !) .
?
M
?
?
I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
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Just to toss in my 2 cents....I'm using an EJ22 built by Steve, installed by California Westys.? Very light Vanagon Tintop.? I removed all VW heavy seats, and build my own lightweight camping interior:? plywood, sticks, and foam and upholstery.? No fridge; no heavy cabinets; no stove or sink unit (plastic cooler, butane stove, gallon water bottle to wash things outside).? I drive mine same as former 1.9 WBX.? I get 22.2 MPG, cruise at 3800 RPM, not afraid at all to occasionally in mountains to go to 4200 RPM; downshifting when appropriate.? About 75K now on the rebuilt motor from Steve.? No issues.? Yes, wind direction and speed on the road make a difference; strain on motor and reduced MPG go up by the square of speed...65 MPH is plenty for me.? Yes, standard VW gearing, no fancy stuff.? So to answer original question, I'd recommend keeping it below 4K RPM for standard driving.? Also, no overheating issues whatsover in whatever conditions, passes CA Smog easily every time, basically a joy to drive.
On Saturday, May 18, 2024 at 05:38:53 PM PDT, connor warren via groups.io <connor_warren59@...> wrote:
?I¡¯m only passing on what I was told by Steve after my failure. On my JDM, I will only occasionally spend several seconds over 4k rpm before shifting up because of what he told me about how I had abused my engine and caused it to fail. I generally cruise at 3400-3600 and get 20-24mpg all day in a fully loaded Westy depending on terrain and wind direction/speed.?
I¡¯m not going to get any further off topic regarding S&S, I¡¯m sure he has had many happy customers. Unfortunately, I don¡¯t fall into that category.?
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I've driven my ej22 with vw's 4sp gearbox for the air cooled engine we removed for maybe 8 years.? ?I've occasionally forgotten to upshift for maybe 10 minutes after an uphill motivated downshift.? ?So I've probably driven at 5500 for more than anybody's recommended.? So far, I've had no trouble.? ?But I don't want to invite trouble.
However, we have killed two vw transaxles.? ? My suspicion is that it can't really handle pulling our?16' sloop up ramps.? ? I was thinking of?a subarugears for the?next time it?dies,?but i've read too many horror stories recently.
oh yes, the speed limits are high around here.? ?We comfortably travel at 80 mph in 4th gear when flat and not windy.? ?It's noisy, but the vehicle handles great at that speed and the engine hasn't complained a bit. On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 6:38?PM connor warren via <connor_warren59= [email protected]> wrote: ?I¡¯m only passing on what I was told by Steve after my failure. On my JDM, I will only occasionally spend several seconds over 4k rpm before shifting up because of what he told me about how I had abused my engine and caused it to fail. I generally cruise at 3400-3600 and get 20-24mpg all day in a fully loaded Westy depending on terrain and wind direction/speed.?
I¡¯m not going to get any further off topic regarding S&S, I¡¯m sure he has had many happy customers. Unfortunately, I don¡¯t fall into that category.?
On May 17, 2024, at 1:00?PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?
So. I won¡¯t know until something bad happens or if I put 100k miles on my SS motor. But I have spent time at the shop and I feel comfortable with Steve¡¯s skill set . ( a rip-off artist doesn¡¯t invite you into
his cleanroom to watch him work) .
?
Does anyone think 4000 k RPM is abuse on a EJ22 ??? ?. not me .The Subaru tach redline way above 4k RPM .
4K that was my shift point on the original VW and I¡¯ve kept that habit with both my EJ conversions .
?
first one lasted more than 110 k miles without a internal rebuild and it had 111k miles when I transplanted.
?
On the latest transplant I purposely short shifted at 3k RPM the first 1k miles ( oil & filter change at 200 & 1000 miles.)
?
Now I shift @ 4K
?
Steve builds off road racing motors, he knows a thing or two about high RPM.
?
I don¡¯t know Connor and I feel bad for his experience but I suspect there is more to the story.
I will share what happens to me but so far I am happy with 2.5 k miles ( no long trip or real ?mountains yet !) .
?
M
?
?
I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
-- Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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Thanks for the report Eric.? Where in the world are you located??
Mine is a very similar to my experience on all points you mention. A few times I've experienced the ECU cut off the throttle when I've forgotten to up shift.
My boat is 23ft 3500lbs w.trailer. (pic)
I have both the SubaruGrars and Reversaru kits awaiting install so will know more on that then.?
I've driven my ej22 with vw's 4sp gearbox for the air cooled engine we removed for maybe 8 years.? ?I've occasionally forgotten to upshift for maybe 10 minutes after an uphill motivated downshift.? ?So I've probably driven at 5500 for more than anybody's recommended.? So far, I've had no trouble.? ?But I don't want to invite trouble.
However, we have killed two vw transaxles.? ? My suspicion is that it can't really handle pulling our?16' sloop up ramps.? ? I was thinking of?a subarugears for the?next time it?dies,?but i've read too many horror stories recently.
oh yes, the speed limits are high around here.? ?We comfortably travel at 80 mph in 4th gear when flat and not windy.? ?It's noisy, but the vehicle handles great at that speed and the engine hasn't complained a bit.
On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 6:38?PM connor warren via <connor_warren59= [email protected]> wrote: ?I¡¯m only passing on what I was told by Steve after my failure. On my JDM, I will only occasionally spend several seconds over 4k rpm before shifting up because of what he told me about how I had abused my engine and caused it to fail. I generally cruise at 3400-3600 and get 20-24mpg all day in a fully loaded Westy depending on terrain and wind direction/speed.?
I¡¯m not going to get any further off topic regarding S&S, I¡¯m sure he has had many happy customers. Unfortunately, I don¡¯t fall into that category.?
On May 17, 2024, at 1:00?PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?
So. I won¡¯t know until something bad happens or if I put 100k miles on my SS motor. But I have spent time at the shop and I feel comfortable with Steve¡¯s skill set . ( a rip-off artist doesn¡¯t invite you into
his cleanroom to watch him work) .
?
Does anyone think 4000 k RPM is abuse on a EJ22 ??? ?. not me .The Subaru tach redline way above 4k RPM .
4K that was my shift point on the original VW and I¡¯ve kept that habit with both my EJ conversions .
?
first one lasted more than 110 k miles without a internal rebuild and it had 111k miles when I transplanted.
?
On the latest transplant I purposely short shifted at 3k RPM the first 1k miles ( oil & filter change at 200 & 1000 miles.)
?
Now I shift @ 4K
?
Steve builds off road racing motors, he knows a thing or two about high RPM.
?
I don¡¯t know Connor and I feel bad for his experience but I suspect there is more to the story.
I will share what happens to me but so far I am happy with 2.5 k miles ( no long trip or real ?mountains yet !) .
?
M
?
?
I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
--
Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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While we're on the rpm topic, what's the conventional wisdom re the EJ25? I have a US spec 84 Vanagon with the VW automatic. It has a tach so I keep staring at it. Tx
I've driven my ej22 with vw's 4sp gearbox for the air cooled engine we removed for maybe 8 years.? ?I've occasionally forgotten to upshift for maybe 10 minutes after an uphill motivated downshift.? ?So I've probably driven at 5500 for more than anybody's recommended.? So far, I've had no trouble.? ?But I don't want to invite trouble.
However, we have killed two vw transaxles.? ? My suspicion is that it can't really handle pulling our?16' sloop up ramps.? ? I was thinking of?a subarugears for the?next time it?dies,?but i've read too many horror stories recently.
oh yes, the speed limits are high around here.? ?We comfortably travel at 80 mph in 4th gear when flat and not windy.? ?It's noisy, but the vehicle handles great at that speed and the engine hasn't complained a bit.
On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 6:38?PM connor warren via <connor_warren59= [email protected]> wrote: ?I¡¯m only passing on what I was told by Steve after my failure. On my JDM, I will only occasionally spend several seconds over 4k rpm before shifting up because of what he told me about how I had abused my engine and caused it to fail. I generally cruise at 3400-3600 and get 20-24mpg all day in a fully loaded Westy depending on terrain and wind direction/speed.?
I¡¯m not going to get any further off topic regarding S&S, I¡¯m sure he has had many happy customers. Unfortunately, I don¡¯t fall into that category.?
On May 17, 2024, at 1:00?PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?
So. I won¡¯t know until something bad happens or if I put 100k miles on my SS motor. But I have spent time at the shop and I feel comfortable with Steve¡¯s skill set . ( a rip-off artist doesn¡¯t invite you into
his cleanroom to watch him work) .
?
Does anyone think 4000 k RPM is abuse on a EJ22 ??? ?. not me .The Subaru tach redline way above 4k RPM .
4K that was my shift point on the original VW and I¡¯ve kept that habit with both my EJ conversions .
?
first one lasted more than 110 k miles without a internal rebuild and it had 111k miles when I transplanted.
?
On the latest transplant I purposely short shifted at 3k RPM the first 1k miles ( oil & filter change at 200 & 1000 miles.)
?
Now I shift @ 4K
?
Steve builds off road racing motors, he knows a thing or two about high RPM.
?
I don¡¯t know Connor and I feel bad for his experience but I suspect there is more to the story.
I will share what happens to me but so far I am happy with 2.5 k miles ( no long trip or real ?mountains yet !) .
?
M
?
?
I did read that a post a while back. We're out of warranty by now for sure, but it is something in the back of my mind.
It appears we are abusing our motor nearly every grade.
--
Eric Freudenthal Ph.D. (he/his/him/himself) Spouse, dad, friend < eric@...> It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.? George Washington, 1790
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I've got an EJ22 installed since 2000 in my full camper Westy. I drive it like a normal car but you know like 4500 lb Vanagon too. Sometimes I accelerate aggressively just for fun and I've very frequently had an additional 1500 lbs in it over mountain passes. I generally don't even think about the RPMs although I do often wonder if having the engine sing along at 3600 on the freeway is going to blow it up one day.?
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There is a 3.7mi stretch of I25 between ABQ & SantaFe known as
La Bajada (The Hill) that climbs 688ft & takes roughly 2.96min¡¯s @ 75mph
& with the OEM 3rd gear & 235/75r15 tires I ran on the rear of My 90Westy
the EJ2.5 has handled that quite nicely @ about 5400rpm possibly 100-200
times over the past 14years with many of those having Canoes on the roof &
or Raft Trailer in tow,,, Those times when VDubaru is Bare & Lightly loaded @
about 4400lbs & there happened to be little traffic I would push it to 82mph @
about 5900rpm ~ I now have 235/70r16s on the rear & do 75mph @ 5600 &
82mph @ 6100 ~
These little 4Bangers are actually quite happy @ High RPMs as long as
They are Properly Lubed & Cooled & Properly Built ~
A point to remember is that there is Less Friction between 2 surfaces
the faster they are moving relative to 1 another ~
There is, though, another daemon to keep in mind about Your Subi
powered Vanagon,,, When connected to a drivetrain, Revs/Min translate to
Revs/Mile & due to the higher Revs/Min We generally run Vanagons @, the
Subaru recommended 105000mi T¡¯Belt change interval should be reduced
to roughly 87000 miles on a Vanagon like Mine that has a taller 4th & Big
Tires on the rear,,, Those with OEM 4th & ¡°normal¡± sized rear tires should
change the T¡¯Belt @ Even Lower Milage & the amount of time spent driving
in lower gears also can reduce T¡¯Belt life even more ~
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Joe Bagadonuts
Dr Mark
OlRivrRat DeanB